By Chris Thomas on Saturday, February 27, 1999 - 10:57 am:

When Troi is stranded in the shuttle and don't have warp power to get to her, why can't they send a shuttle? Don't they have warp power as well?
When the away team first beams down, they trying walking past the Armus pool one way, then the other. All four try. Did they not think of splitting up - two one way and two the other, to get past?
When Yar dies why don't they beam directly to sickbay instead of the transporter room? In the very next episode when the scientist is in danger Picard says "Medical emergency, beam directly to sickbay" So why not do it here?
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By Chris Booton on Saturday, February 27, 1999 - 06:23 pm:

Perhaps they learned their lesson the hard way here, that even a minute can mean the diffrence between life or death.
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By Adam Howarter on Sunday, February 28, 1999 - 02:27 am:

Not to dump on Marina's acting abiliy, and ignoring reality for a sec, am I the only one who thinks Tasha's life for Troy's was a bad trade?
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By The male, 18 to dead demographic on Sunday, February 28, 1999 - 02:21 pm:

Yes!
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By BrianB on Friday, April 9, 1999 - 05:15 am:

Marina wasn't the one who wanted to quit the show to go on to "bigger and better things". Naturally the Troi character got better. Took 6.5 years.
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By Keith Alan Morgan on Monday, April 19, 1999 - 08:09 am:

Amazing isn't it? For the first season of this show it took four Chief Engineers to keep the ship running, but for the next six seasons they only needed one.

Riker, Yar and Data leave the Bridge to transport down to the planet and over the communicator Dr. Crusher tells Picard that she will meet them in transporter room 4. Well, I hope Riker heard this before he told the turbolift his destination.

Data's Tricorder is worthless.

Why would Armus call Data 'Tin Man?' To me it is a reference to the Tin Woodsman of The Wizard of Oz, but it is unlikely that Armus could have read the book. Depending on how far away Vagra is from Earth, it could be possible that the TV broadcast of the movie might have passed by the planet, but how would Armus view it and would the signal be intact enough to make sense of it?

Data beams up to the ship with the Away Team, he was holding Yar when Crusher said to get her to Sick Bay, but when Picard enters Sick Bay, Data walks in behind him, then walks over to stand next to Riker.

At the meeting, everyone is broken up over Yar's death, which is a rarity in Star Trek. The mourning, not the dying. Let's see, Ensign Gomez was upset about the 18 dead in Q Who, Worf feels guilty about Marla Aster in The Bonding, Worf, Lavelle, Taurik and Nurse Ogawa mourned Sito Jaxa in Lower Decks, and Riker over Lt. Kwan's death in Eye Of The Beholder. I guess that makes Worf the most emotional crewmember on board.

Armus says he was left behind by a race of Titans who now dazzle every species they encounter. How would Armus know how other races react to the 'Titans'? Armus has been stuck on this planet since they left. Do they send him postcards?
(And who is this race of titans? Could it be the Q?)

Didn't Tasha have other friends? I suppose the computer could be instructed to only play the individual messages of those people actually in the room, rather than forcing them to listen to half a dozen or more messages to people still on duty or dead. It just seemed odd that we didn't see a few extras milling around.

Indeed, where have we seen pictures, read information or heard dialogue to indicate that there is a single molecule of tin in Data's construction?
(Unless of course Armus was just being derogatory, which wouldn't be surprising.)

Nit on the nit. That should be "atom of tin".

Tin man is a reference back to The Wizard of Oz where he had no heart - no soul, as it were. But then what's Armus doing watching old movies or reading old Earth books? Unless he sensed the reference in the others' minds.

That's an interesting thought...
I have one other real problem with this episode.
It offers the opportunity for yet another chief engineer to show his face. He certainly makes the most of it:

PICARD: Picard to Engineering.
CHIEF: Lieutenant Commander Leland T. Lynch here, captain.

Now that's just plain silly, stating full name and rank whenever anyone hails. Can you imagine it?
***
WORF: Worf to Engineering. Is anyone receiving?
CHIEF: This Lieutenant Commander Leland T. Lynch, Mister Worf. I am receiving you.
***
CHIEF: Lieutenant Commander Leland T. Lynch to Bridge. Core breach in seven minutes...!
RIKER: Stand by.
--- (Six minutes later)
RIKER: OK, keep that conduit secured, Ops. We need Engineering to enter the code in the next nine seconds if we're gonna save the ship!
Riker to Engineering.
CHIEF: This is Lieutenant Commander Leland T. Lynch here. What...
BOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!

Am I the only one who thinks Armus should return in another episode at some point?

No, but let's bring back everybody's favorite stuffed shirt, Leland T. Lynch!

Walker Boone (who played Lieutenant Commander Leland T. Lynch) provided the voice of Mario during the "Super Mario Brothers 3" cartoon.

Armus should return? Darth Armus, perhaps???

Amazing isn't it? For the first season of this show it took four Chief Engineers to keep the ship running, but for the next six seasons they only needed one.

I read that during the first season Picard was trying to decide on a permanant chief engineer. I have no clue how he got to LaForge though.

Re: Lieutenant Commander Leland T Lynch

At least it wasn't Lieutenant Commander Konstantin W Konstantinoveroverovich-Bonclarkovski.

Note from moderator. The beginning of this post refers to other posts which have since been deleted

COOL IT WILL YA GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(breath of air later)

...


That's better.

When you think about it, would it really work if Armus were to return? I mean, the whole report would be officially documented and perhaps reported to other Starfleet captains, who would prepare themselves for every and any eventuality.
"oh, there's that black slime. It reminds me of the report by Jean-Luc Picard in last year's StarFleet Bulletins. Don't worry, just stay calm and we'll... oh, it's just a pool of creosote."

Or at least it would if the alien race was something as threatening as the Borg or the Dominion. "Creosote? Hah! let's just step over it and... uh-oh, something's trying to strangle me... no, wait... aaaAAAAGGGGGHHHH!!!!!"

Waaaaait a minute - is Armus one of the Hundred Founders sent out to discover the solids? He must have been really whacked out and twisted to have turned out the way he did....

OFF-TOPIC:

Hey - just found a safety-net for posting that prevents people from hitting the Post Message button twice, on this new forum format. Thanks Phil!

ON-TOPIC again

Sven, I'd say they cooled off a week ago...:-)

Well, at least that's a relief. Just didn't want the thing to start off from where it finished *again*.
Next!

I heard another (possibly apocryphal) story that a line cut from this episode had the holo-Tasha telling Data that "it happened", possibly referring to "The Naked Now". If it did "happen", maybe it implies that Data is more fully functional than anyone thought. Or maybe Soong was a stickler for perfectionism in some areas...

I'll shut up now...

I was watching part of this episode today...and I got to wondering why everyone was sad about Tasha's death but no one seemed to care about Mr. Extra's death in the shuttle.

And Troi's comments sorta confirmed it for me.

"Yes, we all care for each other", claims Troi.
"Equally?", Armus.

And Troi doesn't answer. She moves on to something else. Why? Because she knows that there will be a memorial service for Tasha, but no mention of Mr. Extra.

I believe Ben Prieto was rescued, wasn't he?

The guy in the shuttle? As if I remember him dying? I wouldn't remember. I watched PART of the episode.
I am not able to watch an entire episode of season 1 TNG.

Oh well...if he was rescue, there's a perfectly good nit down the drain.I thought I had a good one. Darn it.

Sorry, buddy. Troi and Ben Prieto were both beamed out when Picard managed to PI$$ off Armus enough for his energy field to fluctuate.

Sven of Nine, that bit you said about the 'It happened' line intrigues me. If it really was a cut line, it's a shame they cut it. Also...

-Do they shoot Tasha's body out into space off-camera? When Spock died in STII, his memorial service had a coffin. When Jadzia Dax died on DS9, same deal. Tasha left earthly remains behind; what exactly did they do with them?

-And what's with that brown blotch that appears on Yar's cheek after Armus deals her the death blow?

-How did Tasha know where all of her friends would be standing when she recorded the holo-message?

The holoprogam can be adaptive and interactive, just like any other holodeck program. What I noticed was, Tasha must be a really snotty, "Senior Staff Only" kinda gal.

Apparently, she had NO FRIENDS outside of the senior staff.

I know the creators needed to condense the scene, they could've at least had some extras AT THE FUNERAL, and maybe used a series of dissolves to indicate the she was moving through her list of friends, until she came to her buds on the senior staff.

I know this is a little off-topic if you're only considering the actual plotline of the episode, but I was wondering if anyone knew why they killed off Yar...did Denise Crosby get fired, or did she want to quit? I know that someone made a comment earlier on this board about her wanting to go on to bigger and better things, but does anybody know if that is indeed the case?

Just wondering...

The story I heard was that she wanted to go. I think the problem was that with so many main characters there wasn't a lot of time to focus & develop her character, but I could be wrong.

I heard that she felt her character had not been developed enough and didn't want to spend several seasons just shouting out "broilerplate dialogue" (i.e. fire phasers, we're being hailed, ect) rather than more dramatic character moments. Robert Beltran (Voyager) had similer complaints about his character in later seasons but stayed on and kept getting that paycheck.

Yeah...that's about right, Brian (and KAM). Unfortunately, when last heard from Ms.Crosby was getting the chance to recite real, meaningful dialogue in assorted direct-to-video B-movies.

To be fair, at the time she left her prospects looked brighter. She'd gained some notice as an 'atypical' Trek female character, and that, combined with the sheer audacity of her leaving the hit franchise, was enough to garner her 'promising newcomer' status for awhile...a very short while.

Why couldn't the Enterprise fire its phasers or at least photon torpedoes at Armus while it was away from the shuttle? (or at least TRY?)

fireing the phasers at armus made him stronger.

Note: One of the second season producers was Burton Armus.

Another solution for eliminating Armus (after leaving the planet) was an antimatter bomb. That'd fix 'em! I know Kirk woulda if one of his crew was killed by that thing!

Cause of death for Tasha Yar---Red-shirt-itis!

When Riker is pulled inside Armus and the away team rushes up the edge of the slick, LeVar Burton accidentally drops his phaser in the goo.

Is it a coincidence that Denise Crosby appeared in Playboy the same month Tasha was killed off? Was Denise tainting the family image of the show and asked to leave?

I thought she did playboy before TNG ever happened, I could be wrong about that. The reason that she left is because she wanted it. Of course if she did playboy at the time she left the show it would probably be because she was looking to expand beyond the show's family image.

I think Playboy dredged up some old photos of her, hoping to cash in on her newfound Trek fame. They re-ran the spread that same summer that she left TNG.

Crosby asked Gene Roddenberry to be let out of her contract.

Yes, she posed for Playboy before NextGen (I think years before), but the shots weren't used until she was 'famous'.

I did admire her for her reaction to Playboy's decision to run the old photos though.
Unlike other actresses who whine & complain about old nude shots surfacing, Denise said something to the effect of, "I thought they looked good at the time, and I still think they look good."

CONSPIRACY (?)

In "Home Soil", Yar grabs Malencon after he was shot by the laser and she orders "Two to beam directly to Sickbay"

YET......Crusher...CRUSHER...the CMO...mind you...just has the Enterprise beam them up to the ship...NOT to Sickbay.

I mention this because "Home Soil" was created AND aired BEFORE "Skin of Evil"

Why would Worf be broken up over Tasha's death? Shouldn't he be happy that a friend has died in the line of duty?

Because it was not an honorable death?

Why the continuing misconception that Tasha's death was empty/honorless? She died drying to save her comrades, for Pete's sake!

She got slapped by an oil slick trying to walk around it. not quite the warrior's death that worf might hope for. Still an honorable death in the line of duty but remember Klingon systems of honor are a bit more stringent shall we say.

Actually, she was killed trying to smuggle her half-Romulan daughter and herself back to Federation space. Don't know how that registers on the honor scale.

Well if that happened in the same universe that we are looking at assuming that we are who we think we are where we think we are. Temporal mechanics it just isnt for breakfast any more.

She died trying to rescue Troi and Ensign Expendable. That's definitely in the line of duty. Now, compare it to Worf's reaction in "The Next Phase." He thinks Geordi has died in a transporter malfunction, and he's happy that his friend has died in the line of duty. I think he would feel more honor in Tasha's glorious death than he would in Geordi's accidental death.

Once the away team saw where the shuttle was, why not have Data take some kind of measurements as to how far it is, then have the ship beam the away team CLOSER TO the shuttle or INSIDE the shuttle to begin a quicker rescue? Just so Yar could die, maybe?

By LUIGI NOVI on Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 09:56 am:


The holoprogam can be adaptive and interactive, just like any other holodeck program. What I noticed was, Tasha must be a really snotty, "Senior Staff Only" kinda gal.

Apparently, she had NO FRIENDS outside of the senior staff.

I know the creators needed to condense the scene, they could've at least had some extras AT THE FUNERAL, and maybe used a series of dissolves to indicate the she was moving through her list of friends, until she came to her buds on the senior staff.

--

That's a good point indeed! I've often wondered if maybe it could be explained by bearing in mind the interactive nature of holotechnology. Yar's holographic "goodbye" message probably came with an instruction to the operator (Picard, presumably, since he took the role of officiant at the ceremony) to program the holodeck with the names of those attending. When activated, the program therefore only played the tributes for those people, which Yar would have recorded one at a time rather than in one unbroken speech as it appears.

It's quite possible that she recorded messages for other crewmembers, who could (and probably did) access the program independently of the Senior Staff ceremony.

Does that all sound feasible?

But why would the senior staff have their own ceremony? That wouldn't seem to be in keeping the spirit, the very point of such a ceremony. Sure, some crewman manning critical stations could would not be able to attend, and perhaps there would be a wake spanning more than one day, or throughout an entire day spanning all the duty shifts, but shouldn't some of them have been at the one we saw?

Has anyone noticed a slight •••• up when Yar is beamed back up to the ship. When Armus kills Yar there is a black splodge of her left cheek. but when she appears on the transporter pad the splodge is red. And another thing why was she beamed up to the transporter room, if time was of the essence why not beam her directly to sick bay.

I think Phil touched on that along with Gordi's jumpity phaser in the guide.

I spotted on the net somewhere that they're planning to do Star Trek XI with a completely new cast. Wouldn't it be amusing if it were set aboard a ship under the command of everybody's favourite stuffed shirt?

Although (thinking about it a little more) Captain Leland T. Lynch isn't quite as funny as Lieutenant Commander Leland T. Lynch...

I don't think a movie like that would be amusing at all. Sorry.

Its too bad Yar had to die here. Makes you wonder how she would have developed over the course of the series and movies.

To quote Picard in "First Contact": "We bearly knew her". Well I guess Data knew her alittle better than anyone else on the Enterprise D, but anyways . . .

My guess is that we would have had fewer Klingon episodes dealing with Worf's life, and more on Yar's background, perhaps a face to face visit with her sister, this time.

That red splotch on Yar's cheek was downright awful. It looked like a piece of red felt was stuck to her face, and didn't resemble a smear of blood at all. And if it wasn't supposed to be blood, then what was it?

Whatever Armus is, his atomic structure seems to dwell partially in subspace or somewhere, since after he's absorbed Riker, he's able to slither across the ground and envelope the shuttle, but at no time is there a portion of him that's thick enough to account for Riker's body. And just how did Riker survive smothered by the goop? I really hope the producers used a mask to represent Riker's face as it partially surfaces, mouth open and filled with black sludge, before sinking back down, because I can't imagine how any actor could stand a mouthful of black oil or whatever that stuff was.

I think I read somewhere that Jonathan Frakes jumped into the pool of metamucil (sp?) and that indeed it was him doing that...

Apparently he actually ate the maggots in 'Conspiracy' as well.

I think it was in the ST - TNG Companion, but can't be sure after all this time.

kinda wonder if the changelings/Dominion, would have allowed Armus to live...?
I can just imagine a group of them turning him/it into a solid and watch with amusement as the JemHaddar blew him/it to little bits and pieces.

"Cause of death for Tasha Yar---Red-shirt-itis!"

-John A. Lang

Sorry, John, but Tasha would be a "Yellowshirt" :D

Just rewatched this. Now I know where the default Windows XP wallpaper came from!

her commanding officer was a red shirt... it's a I'm with stupid effect.

After rewatching this episode, I kept thinking of Spock's line in Star Trek TMP (modified to fit this scene): Armus is a child... I suggest you treat it as such or something to that effect.

It Sounded like a immature whining brat.

It was an immature wining brat. But a powerful one at that!

It wasn't Frakes or even a real person when the face came up out of the goo as when it goes back down again the goo bubbles up out of its mouth as well as rising around the face. Just as if it was a mask lol.

I think the idea of Tasha's death being empty was that she got a red shirt death instead of something better. She was killed without even getting to fire a shot, no glorious battle. She was also killed by Armus for the sake of it ratehr than him percieving her as a threat.

I had been wondering for a long time if Armus was the only alien lifeform that was capable of "sucking the life energy" out of humanoid life. Were there ever any others?

This was an interesting exchange, I think:

(after dropping the phaser Armus forced him to point at himself)

DATA: You are capable of great sadism and cruelty. Interesting. No redeeming qualities.

ARMUS: SO WHAT DO YOU THINK?

DATA: (calmly) I think you should be destroyed.

ARMUS: (scoffing) A MORAL JUDGMENT FROM A MACHINE!

I just think that was really good, appropriate, and descriptive dialogue for the scene it was included in. Especially considering this was a First Season TNG show!

Also, why didn't they destroy Armus? Perhaps a photon torpedo would have succeeded where phaser fire didn't! Or did Picard think that Armus being alone for eternity would be worse for the oil-slick man? Cause that's what happened!

Also, I liked Riker's dialogue that went: "Preserving life - all life - is very important to us" and "We believe everything in the Universe has a right to exist". It was understandable for the crew to have standards like that at the beginning of the series, but then along come those pesky Bluegills, and then the crew wasted no time killing all of them and frying the mother creature to oblivion!

And what about the Borg? Do they have a right to exist? Hmmm????.....

Well, like I said, this was the First Season. Worf was saying things like "She is from a world now alien to me" and a certain boy genius was saving the day all the time. Many other incredibly ludicrous things like that were commonplace at that point.

And...just what did Yar mean when she said Riker was "the best"? That could be interpeted in many different ways, but I suspect that they both "spent some time together" in their off-duty hours.

Hey, if there are fans out there who write Data/Yar fantasy TrekPorn, I can speculate that Riker and Yar got it on at some point!

Can't I?

Also, why didn't they destroy Armus?

According to the ST Companion it was Gene Roddenberry who insisted that they not kill Armus. He felt that our heroes aren't Gods & it's not right for them to go around killing other beings who don't pose an immediate threat, just because "they're bad & should be destroyed."

Can't say that I agree with him on that one, but whatever.

Maybe Armus was destroyed, they did fire photon torpedoes at the shuttle he was right by. Plus he fed off their phaser energy the last thing they want to do is power him up enough for him to leave. Though I think it was a leap to assume he was feeding off the energy, he might just have been withstanding it.