By Chris Thomas on Saturday, February 27, 1999 - 11:00 am:

Everyone refers to Data's use of a contraction at the end when says "It's me" but he uses one earlier in the episode, too. When discussing the concept of time with Picard he refers to the phrase "Time Flies When You're Having Fun" - that's the phrase alright but Data should have to say "You Are".
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By Keith Alan Morgan on Monday, April 19, 1999 - 08:17 am:

In both NextGen Guides Phil commented on the Holodeck recreation failing to show it raining. However, after telling the computer he wants the recreation, Picard specifies, "Warm spring day." While it is possible to have rain on a warm day, this instruction may have canceled out the accuracy of the recreation.

What were all those people doing in the cafe? I know there are ways to determine if someone was in a cafe at a certain time, employment records, reservations, did they pay with a check or credit card, but would the ship's computer have access to that information and wouldn't it be an incredible waste of computer memory? I suppose the computer could have created them to give the cafe some atmosphere, but shouldn't something like that be programmed in by the user? And the little psycho-drama that the characters enacted, was this also programmed in or was the computer just ad libbing trying to guess what Picard wanted out of this fantasy?

They receive a set of coordinates, go there and find a relay source, then they get some new coordinates and Worf says they come from the same source as the previous message. Well, why not just go to the original source instead of being led around by the nose?

Picard tells Jenice that they are in orbit around Vandor. Vandor is the star, the planet is Vandor IV.

Mannheim is surprised that an android is on a Starfleet vessel, but Mannheim only left Earth fifteen years earlier, Data had been in Starfleet for eleven years then.

Dr. Crusher is running some doohickey over Mannheim, but the padd she is using appears to be blank.

In Mannheim's laboratory, Data says, "I will need a specific amount of anti-matter." Well, that's rather vague. Data bores the crew with arrival times down to the second, but doesn't specify exactly the amount of anti-matter that he needs?

On page 147 of the NextGen Guide II, Phil expressed confusion at Data's decision that the middle Data was in the correct time line. Well, the first 'hiccup' in time repeated the past, the second 'hiccup' showed the future, and the third time we have past, present and future. Each Data was listening to a different countdown, if Data put the antimatter in at the wrong time it wouldn't work so he needed to figure out which him was using the right countdown. Since each Data would think it was in the proper time sequence until they saw each other they couldn't use that as a basis for determining the proper time, so the middle Data must have used the previous two 'hiccups' to realize that he was seeing himself both before and after.
As for Picard remembering and the computer recording the repeat in time, obviously it wasn't a true repeat in time, but more of a forced replay.

Do Picard and Troi really need to tell the computer who they are before entering the Holodeck???

There didn't seem to be an arch around the door in this episode.
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By KAM on Monday, April 19, 1999 - 08:21 am:

The title of this episode might be better suited to Voyager. We'll Always Have Paris, (Tom that is.)

I liked a good deal of this episode- a really mysterious atmosphere interspersed with some warm-hearted moments, all of it beautifully reflected in the music...
One wonders, though, how the holodeck knew what the Cafe des Artistes looked like or what was going on there at that precise moment in time specified by Picard. Are we to believe that the Cafe is under 24-hour surveillance by holoimagers just so programs can be made? Seems very very very convoluted to me. (Naturally, there couldn't have been the Jenice subplot if this element of the program were missing...)

I also found it odd that the computer knew exactly how the cafe in Paris looked 22 years ago. Compter space on the Enterpise must be HUGE to have details like this stored in them.

At the end of the episode when Troi is taking Jancine to the holodeck to meet Picard, Troi tells the computer who she is, and the computer askes if she want to terminate the current program. I find this odd since Picard was in the holodeck at the time. Can anyone just come along and turn off someone elses programs when someone is currnetly useing it? Does that seem right? This could have been used in the Voyager Episode "Night" when Paris was using the holodeck 5 minutes over his time, and the Doctor was awaiting his turn.

Can you imagine that happeneing when somebody's actually doing work in there? Like in "Booby Trap":

Data: "Sorry Geordi, time's up. That solution of yours will have to wait. I must catch up on my humor lessons with Joe Piscopo."

One major fact I learned from watching television and movies:

Every window in Paris has a view of the Eiffel Tower.

(This was one in a series, btw)

Maybe Troi is the one who has that authority, as she would know what is best for the crew's mental health (being the counselor and all).

Miko, Data would never say that. He would say:

"I am sorry, Geordi, but your time is up...."

He wouldn't use the contraction.

Picard and Jenice met in restaurant then why did Jenice ask for the Holodeck's exit? Wait a min, Jenice don't know the enter and exits doors of restaurant? Dramatic end of show?

At the end of the show, they're in a holo-restaurant on the holodeck. Jenice wanted to leave the holodeck, not just the holo-restaurant. If she got up and left the exit door of the restaurant, she'd still be on the holodeck, in holo-Paris.

Argh, that's a heck of a lot of holo-s.

I understand you but I'm talking about 22 years ago! By real restaurants have real exits right?

I can understand why she don't remember exact the same type of restaurant. Jenice haven't stepped in same restaurant for over 22 years if only one time.

Yeah, I agree there is a lot of holo-s***!

In the opening scene, Picard and an officer are fencing. They are very clearly shown to be using fencing sabers, not foils or epees. However, the computer scores them using foil/epee strikes.

FYI, in foil and epee a point is scored when you touch your opponent with the point of the blade. In saber, you score with a "slash", i.e. by striking the opponent with the side of the blade. In the match on the episode, the computer scores Picard and his opponent with point touches, though they are wielding sabers.

Of course, fencing rules could have changed by the 24th century...

Sorry, Keith, but you can also score with the point in sabre.

Also, it's been a while since I watched this ep, but I thought they were using epees. I didn't see any hand guard, just the large bell guard.

Of course, it's been a while, as I said.

WHASSISNAME
Interesting move Captain. What technique was that?

PICARD
The technique of a desperate man.

/Fizz-crackle-special-effect/

WHASSISNAME
Interesting move Captain. What technique was that?

PICARD
The technique of a desperate man.

WHASSISNAME
Woah! What just happened?

PICARD
Oh, it's nothing to worry about, Ensign. Just some dam-n Star Trek viewer messing about with the controls on their video machine. You'll get used to it...

Michelle Phillips was one of the Mamas and the Papas during the '60s and is (well, was) the step-mother of Mackenzie Phillips. She became a soap actress around the '80s and popped up in recurring roles on "Knots Landing," "Beverly Hills 90210," and "7th Heaven."

I hated her on "Knots Landing"!

She was ok in this episode, but if I was Picard, I'd stick with Dr Crusher!

Near the end of the episode, Picard flubs a line, and I think it may have something to do with the costume designs. When he says, "I'll do my best," there's an "r" where there shouldn't be.

Question: How does one know when they're in a time loop...seeing that the same events happened as they did before?

It was easy for Data to see that he was in a time loop in this episode, as he could see himself from the differant loops.

And wouldn't the above post be better in the Enterprise section than here in The Next Generation board?

Yes, it would. I'll move it the next time I'm moving other things.

You're actually agreeing with me on something? WOW!

...and yet, over a year later... ;-)

I forgot, OK? Geez, I'll move it now. ;-)

want some help lifting that? it looks like a heavy message and you are retired now.... ;)

I got it, I got it. I may be retired, but that don't mean I got one foot in the grave, dadgummit.

yeah yeah I know. Back in your day moderators transferred messages both ways....uphill...barefooted....IN THE SNOW!

us kids these days....

Up hill both ways there and back.

15 miles...

After the first repeat, they mention the USS Lalo having responded to their hails saying they too experienced it. Would that be the same USS Lalo from BoBW? (i.e., the ship that leaves one planet on a Cargo run and encounters the cubs, sends a distress signal that the promptly terminates).

* Mrs. Mannheim says that her husband has never believed that time is immutable, any more than space is immutable. That's reasonable, considering that the Federation has already had time travel for more than a century.

* Data says that the range of the Mannheim effect is "at least several thousand light years" from Vandor. In "Where No One Has Gone Before", it's stated that a subspace message would take 51 years and 10 months to travel a distance of 2,700,000 light years. At that rate, reports of the effect would take take 21 days to reach Vandor from 3000 light years away. And it doesn't appear to have been weeks since the Enterprise first experienced the effect.

* Why would antimatter heal the breach? Mannheim's experiments were said to involve time and gravity. Antimatter doesn't have anything more to do with time and gravity than normal matter.

* So, the accident at Mannheim's lab disrupts spacetime for thousands of light years, threatening trillions of sentient beings. And at the end of the episode, with cosmic disaster having only been narrowly averted, Mannheim is simply going to resume his work? Shouldn't the Federation shut down his facility and forbid any further such experiments by anyone? There should also be an investigation to determine whether Mannheim was criminally negligent: His wife tells Picard that he knew his experiments were dangerous and that his obsession may have clouded his judgement.

After Picard, Riker, and Data encounter duplicates of themselves in the turbolift, Data tells Riker that they and their duplicates "are both us, at different points along the same time continuum." However, that would require a closed time loop, in which the past isn't changed. This incident must actually involve two divergent time tracks, because we previously see a different version of events, in which the three don't encounter their future selves.

The sequence can be understood as follows: On Track A, the turbolift doors open, Data A tells Picard A that the effect is now being felt in the Ilecom system, and the three step inside. Picard A says "Bridge", and after a 20-second trip, the turbolift stops. The three then travel a little more than 20 seconds into the past (and to the point in space where the turbolift was at that time) of Track B, which was identical to Track A until it diverged with their arrival. The doors open, Data B tells Picard B that the effect is now being felt in the Ilecom system, the duplicate trios recognize each other, and briefly react before the doors close.

So far, no logical problems. But then Riker B says: "This is where we started, if we are us". That doesn't make sense. How can Riker B remember having "started" at that point before? The attempted trip to the bridge was in Riker A's past, not his.

Then the doors open again, and the turbolift is empty. Were it not for Riker B's comment, it would be natural to assume that Picard A, Riker A, and Data A had all simply returned to their own time track. Instead, the dialogue illogically implies that Riker A has somehow become Riker B, or at least that Riker B has acquired Riker A's memories.

* KAM said: On page 147 of the NextGen Guide II, Phil expressed confusion at Data's decision that the middle Data was in the correct time line. Well, the first 'hiccup' in time repeated the past, the second 'hiccup' showed the future, and the third time we have past, present and future. Each Data was listening to a different countdown, if Data put the antimatter in at the wrong time it wouldn't work so he needed to figure out which him was using the right countdown. Since each Data would think it was in the proper time sequence until they saw each other they couldn't use that as a basis for determining the proper time, so the middle Data must have used the previous two 'hiccups' to realize that he was seeing himself both before and after.

Phil said: If Data walked up to the platform before the disturbance occurred, wouldn't the Data standing at the platform be the one in the correct time frame?

I think Phil is right (or at least, I don't see what basis the middle Data had for being so certain he was the right one).

Data told Riker that the next time effect would occur in 1 minute 30 seconds, and his android internal clock should allow him to measure that interval precisely. Additionally, the moment the effect begins is visibly marked by the appearance of the opening to the "other dimension". At that moment, Data C (the furthest from the platform), is in the process of using the rod to lift the antimatter container from its storage unit. Data originally performed that action 20 seconds before the time effect began, so Data C must be from a time track that diverged from the original when he jumped 20 seconds forward in time. Data B is standing where the original Data was, when the effect was still not due for about 10 seconds. Therefore, Data A appears to be the only one of the three, who is at the moment and on the time track where he belongs, the only one who hasn't jumped forwards and sideways in time.

* Why are the three 27-second countdowns of the effect's duration, no more than a second or two apart- so close together that they sound like a brief echo- while the three Datas are removed from each other by 10 and 20 seconds?

* As I pointed out in my post above, regarding the time effect incident at the turbolift, the Picard, Riker and Data who enter the turbolift the second time, can't logically be the same ones who entered the first time. Since it appears that the episode subsequently follows the three who entered the second time, the implication is that the Picard, Riker, and Data we watched for the first 24 episodes of ST:TNG, are not the same ones that we watch from then on.

* The time effect is strangely selective: Rather than displacing random objects in time, it seems to prefer sentient beings, objects they are touching, objects they are holding with another object (the antimatter container), and sound waves they are listening to (the out of synch countdowns).

The effect is oddly considerate as well: Since the entire galaxy is moving through space at 600 km/sec, when Picard, Riker and Data jump back in time about 25 seconds, they should have found themselves floating in space, about 15,000 km from Vanar and the Enterprise. Fortunately, the effect also transported them through space, to the point previously occupied by the turbolift (if it had been less thoughtful, and instead transported them to the same spacial coordinates within the ship where they had been standing, they would have fallen down the turbolift shaft).

* In my post above, Vanar=Vandor

* When Picard tells Data he wants him to be an away team of one, because he sees no reason to risk anyone else, Data says that is reasonable because he is "a machine, and dispensable." This is rather different from Data's attitude in "The Measure of a Man".

* Why does the lab door made of fluorescent tubes open only partway after Data enters the code? Is this a malfunction, or did Mannheim just not want any fat people in his lab?

* I wonder if the lab's security system was designed by the Minosians, because it isn't much more effective than the pods from "Arsenal of Freedom". Why are there only two phaser emitters, and why do they only fire one at time, seconds apart? Data is able to dodge the first phaser beam, because the emitter helpfully alerts him to its presence, by making a whining sound for a second before it fires. As Data bends sideways to avoid the beam, his feet remain in place for about a second, so all the beam has to do to hit him is sweep sideways a few inches. But instead, it sweeps downward. The second emitter is also too slow to hit him, both when he runs and jumps for cover, and when he subsequently breaks cover to do a running roll from one side of the room to the other, even though he isn't moving any faster than normal human speed.

* When the opening flashes after Data inserts the antimatter, Data flinches and squints.

* When Picard introduces Jenice to Riker, she and Riker shake hands, but when Picard introduces her to Data a moment later, she and Data just nod at each other. Why don't they shake hands?

* Sometimes in this episode Vandor IV is referred to as a planetoid, and at other times as a planet. The latter description is technically incorrect, since to qualify as a planet, a body must have enough mass to assume hydrostatic equilibrium (a nearly round shape), and we can see that is not the case with Vandor IV.

* After Data tells Mannheim that he is fully versed in all his theories, Mannheim tells Data: "Your knowledge is useless, because the work we have done here has made most of those theories obsolete". If "most" of the theories are obsolete, that means some are not, so why would Data's knowledge be useless?

* Mannheim says that his team discovered an energy source within the planetoid, and opened the window to "another dimension", using the energy of both the pulsar and the planetoid. It's odd that a planetoid would be producing energy comparable to that of a pulsar, but no one is curious enough to ask him for any detail about that energy and where it is coming from.

* Data says that "sensors show an immense volume of energy emanating deep within the planet". Shouldn't Data be more precise than "an immense volume", and specify what type of energy?

* When Mannheim says he plans to continue his experiments, Picard tells him that he's sure "the Federation will want to help in any way that it can". Why? The Federation should be shutting Mannheim down, not helping him. What exactly is the practical benefit of his experiments, that justifies endangering the lives of everyone across thousands of light-years, if an accident should happen again?