Why would Starfleet promote someone to a ship that was several months away at high warp? Weren't there any closer qualified personnel?

Is this the same Aries in which Mendez steals a shuttle from and then flies to Tarchannen III in Identity Crisis?

For an empath, Troi seems awfully defensive when talking to Kyle Riker.

Presumably they use those visors in Ambu-Jitsu to make it tougher to find their opponent, so why do those sticks make that annoying noise?

In Lower Decks, Worf told Ensign Sito that there was a Klingon fighting skill that involved being blindfolded, and Sito realized that Worf had made it up, but isn't this Ambu-Jitsu a form of blind fighting? (True, those visors wouldn't completely block one's vision, but it's almost blind fighting.)

Why didn't Riker realize earlier that his dad had been cheating all those years ago? Especially when he found out which moves were illegal and which weren't.

If the Holodeck is programmed not to hurt anyone, then how did the Klingon pain sticks work?

The music in this episode reminded me of some old 70's drama shows, a bit obvious.

Riker's argumentative father obviously comes from a long line of WASPs, being that he has an amazing resemblance to Greg's dad on "Dharma and Greg".

I don't think Ambu-Jitsu is Klingon in origin. One good thing about this episode is the venom that Riker and his dad show each other. It also brings up a point. I believe this is the first time that Starfleet tried to give Riker the captain's chair and Starfleet Command, according to the admiral in "Best of Both Worlds, Part 1," is annoyed by the fact that Riker doesn't accept the captain's chair. Excuse me, but isn't the Enterprise-D the flagship. I mean Picard is not just your average Starfleet captain, he reflects the eliteness that would go into a flagship choice. If Picard gets the axe in a battle or dangerous situation, then the "D's" first officer is going to be in command of the flag; the "D" might not get a chance to converse with other full
captains. Don't they want an elite first officer
in charge of the mission they sent their elite ship to complete? (Why would you put Riker on a Miranda-class vessel?)

Ambu-Jitsu: I once read it described as "...a cross between Gladiators and The Mighty Morphin Power Rangers."

Alfonso: I didn't say Ambu-Jitsu was Klingon. Although, rereading my post I can understand how you might come to that conclusion.
In truth I now realize that the point I was trying to make really belongs in Lower Decks.

So rachgd, which Ranger is Riker?

Prior to the Ambu-Jitsu match, Kyle Riker smugly informs Doctor Pulaski that Will could never beat him; gee, what a surprise, considering he hasn't competed against Will since he was 15 years old! Pretty easy for a skilled adult to beat a teenage novice!

Picard makes a big dealabout the USS Aries first officer's language skills, but also claims the ship is just an unimportant craft in a distant sector. Wouldn't such an officer be on a more important ship, and not one that seems to have been somewhat ignored by HQ?

Starfleet sure promotes officer in ahurry in the 24th century; a year and a half as Number One on the Enterprise,and Riker's offered his first command? Mind you,I kinda think Riker's career has always been a little fast, compared to Picard,who's still just a 'captain'.

During the Ambu-Jitsu match, names of various anime characters/movies are written on those big banners in kana, among them "Akira."

Will, Riker had been offered his first command before becoming the Enterprise's first officer. See The Arsenal Of Freedom for more info.

I can't attest to Starfkeet being annoyed that Riker doesn't want his own ship, but it does make sense that when he's promoted to captain he'd get an insignificant ship at first. He'd be a rookie captain. As some pointed out he's even new as a first officer. So he's not about to get his own heavy cruiser to go play with. It seems right to me that you should have to start with the lower little ships and move up. And I don't think losing Riker on the Enterprise is a huge loss for Starfleet, I'm sure they must have another excellent top-flight first officer around somewhere.

Although I'm kind of confused with Picard. At first he tells Riker it will be a wonderful mission of exploration on the Aries. A chance to find new life in a new part of the galaxy. Then towards the end of the show, it's suddenly an "insignificant ship in an insignficant part of the galaxy". Interesting way for a fellow explorer to describe a mission of exploration.

It's my understanding that in Ambo-Jitsu you are "blindfolded" by the visor. However, the sticks make that annoying pinging sound whenever pointed at the other player (something in the other person's suit sets off the sensor). Of course, it's amazing how Riker can swing for his Dad's head, how his Dad can duck at the right time, and then quickly get up and jump over Riker's next sweep with perfect perfection, all without being able to see! They do this back and forth about 3-4 times, and I could swear they can see! (I know, actually having them doing it blindfolded would hardly be plausible, but really! Am I supposed to believe this amazing luck/instinct these two have? )

When Riker goes to say goodbye to Troi, he as his hair I some kind of ugly pasted on style. Totally combed down and brushed straight back. He gives his little speech, walks up to Troi, the shot changes and his hair is back to normal. Now that's a top-flight counseller! Fixes ugly hair-dos while she counsels!

And she's very popular when it comes to shaving beards as well.

Starfkeet? Isn't that some kind of bird?

Yeah...it's that parrot that keeps showing up on the computer screens. ;)

Ryan: Am I supposed to believe this amazing luck/instinct these two [Rikers] have?

Not really...but they are father and son, and they've fought a whole lot of matches prior to this, and so maybe they can predict each other's moves better than two strangers would.

My big problem with this ep...besides the done-to-death 'father-son bonding' thing...is the ambo-jitsu costumes (uniforms, suits, whatever). I do realize that sporting uniforms are designed for comfort/safety rather than appearance. But after the match, when Riker pushes the visor up - all I could think of was "The Red Power Ranger, in a tender moment..."

Also, the Troi/Pulaski "They never do grow up, do they?" dialogue was just silly. This is entirely basic stuff, the kind most females figure out instinctively by about age twelve. () The fact that a highly-trained female Starship counsellor/psychologist even needs to be reminded of it is patently ridiculous. Between these two particular women the dialogue should have been much more frank and sophisticated. (Then again, so should the whole plot of this ep.)

I thought this episode was kinda sloppy. Too much going on. Hard to keep track of events.

When this episode first aired in the UK (way back in 1991), almost all of Worf's ceremony was cut, only for everything to be reinstated in the first repeat (in 1997) onwards. I didn't really see what all the fuss was about, to be honest - I wasn't traumatised at all by the sight of grown men prodding each other with sticks.

Worf's feelings for Q'Onos are in scrutiny once again. He said in "Hide & Q" that the Klingon babette was "from a world now alien to him" yet he PARTICIPATES in the holographic "Age of Ascension" ritual.

FUNNY THOUGHT:

Maybe this episode SHOULD HAVE been called "The Rikerus Factor"

Mitchell Ryan (Kyle Riker) was one of the heavies in the original "Lethal Weapon."
New Age composer and former "Entertainment Tonight" host John Tesh was one of the holo-Klingons.

Should've used the Bat-leth (sp?) choreographer for that incredibly inept ambo-jitsu display. Duck the forehand roundhouse swing and counter with a vertical buttstroke (I DID NOT MAKE THAT UP!), and your opponent is down for the count. But noooo--they just keep flailing.

Yes, John Tesh is one of the holo-Klingons. I saw this ep today on DVD and he was either the third one on Worf's right (when Worf's back is to the holodeck entrance), or second from the viewer's POV on the left, or he was the fourth Klingon on Worf's left, which is the first on the right of the viewer's POV. And he's not even the tallest one, either! The Klingons are all uncredited but IMDb.com has Tesh listed thus:

12. "Star Trek: The Next Generation" (1987) playing "Klingon" in episode: "Icarus Factor, The" (episode # 2.14) 4/22/1989

I remember the Entertainment Tonight story WAY back then that focused on his participation in that episode. He was an avid Trekkie, so they gave him that part.

Yeah, I vaguely remember it too. Of course, ET's owned by Paramount so their people always get first dibs on all things Trek so naturally one of their own's gonna get the chance to have a bit part in a Trek episode. Actually, that's the only time I know of that happening right offhand, but I do remember that they had tons of footage on STIV:TVH, cuz they kept showing the Bounty's water landing scene, which was filmed in a tank of water on a Paramount parking lot.

There is apparently an Anbo-jitsu ring someplace on the Enterpise, which we only see once. I don't know if the people who made the ship (or this episode) remembered this, but there's a little invention in the 24th Century, called a Holodeck. Why bother spending the space to make a real ring when you can make one on the Holodeck when you need it, then get rid of it when you don't? I would guess that's the reason they have Holodecks on starships, to save space by having a room you can use for whatever you need at the time.

On a ship the size of the Enterprise D, I doubt a little Anbo Jitsu Ring takes up THAT much space.

The advantage of having one one on the ship is you could use it anytime, where as if you had to create it on one of the hollodecks, youd have to wait till one was empty, or working right, to do so.

Perhaps that room is not an Anbo Jitsu room, but a gymnasium with multi-use generic spaces and provisions for different activities, and Will had to set up the mat for AJ.

He said "There is a Anbo Jitsu ring on the Enterprise". You be the judge.

Robert Iscove recently (mis?) directed that monumental movie turkey From Justin To Kelly, starring those singing sensations Kelly Clarkson and Justin Guarini. Here's Jabootu's take on that one.

Also, the Troi/Pulaski "They never do grow up, do they?" dialogue was just silly.

Espically given the fact that Troi has the same relationshp with her own mother

This is entirely basic stuff, the kind most females figure out instinctively by about age twelve.

Just to say that in my observations mother/daughter relationships often are much more turbulant than father/son ones.

Yea delete my posts.

Trois relationship with her mother is NOTHING like Rikers with his father!

I don't remember Troi telling her mother that she hated her and would she please leave the Enterprise now. And I sure don't remember Deanna telling her mother that she should have been the one to die instead of her father. Can anyone name an episode where that happened?

And Brian, you are a man right? So how do you know what most femles figure out instinctively by about age twelve. No--Wait, never mind. On second thought I don't want to know the answer to that question!

Maybe he *shock* *gasp* talks to women? (Oh, no! A non-stereotypical Trekkie? Is that allowed?)

I said i didn't want to know!

I was citing kerriem who said

This is entirely basic stuff, the kind most females figure out instinctively by about age twelve.

I just forgot to but the itallics around it, my freaking bad.

I didn't say she has the exact same relationship with her mother as Riker does. I said she has the exact same relationship with her mother as she just discribed with her lines:

TROI
Males are certainly unique. In adulthood, fathers continue to regard their sons as children...and sons continue to chafe against what they perceive as their fathers' expectations of them.

I think it is a nit when she says that human males are unique and than goes on to discribe something that could just as well be talking about her and her mother.

Yes you did, you said "given that Troi HAS THE EXACT SAME RELATIONSHIP WITH HER MOTHER". You didn't say anything about what she had just said, how was I supost to know what you meant? Im not a mind reader. I think its just a case of you trying to back track since you know that I'm right that she doesn't have the exact same relationship with her mother that Riker has with her dad, as you said.

John-Boy: He said "There is a Anbo Jitsu ring on the Enterprise". You be the judge.
Luigi Novi: He did not say that.

Kyle: "You know, it's a shame there's no anbo-jytsu ring nearby."
Will: "There is. Deck 12. Gymnasium."

That's why I wondered if it was possible that that room is a gymnasium with provisions for different activities.

John-Boy: Yes you did, you said "given that Troi HAS THE EXACT SAME RELATIONSHIP WITH HER MOTHER". You didn't say anything about what she had just said, how was I supost to know what you meant? Im not a mind reader.
Luigi Novi: Brian did not say that. It was pretty obvious to me that Brian was comparing Troi's relationship with her mother with the description she gave in her dialogue, for the simple reason that he cited that line of dialogue (as quoted by kerriem) right before he made that opinion:

Also, the Troi/Pulaski "They never do grow up, do they?" dialogue was just silly.

Espically given the fact that Troi has the same relationshp with her own mother

The first line, which was italicized, was from Kerrie Mills' January 8, 2002 post. He quoted it, and the second line was his response to it. Nowhere in his post did even mention Riker or Kyle, so there's no backtracking, no indication that he "knows you're right", and the statement that "he said" anything about Riker and his dad is factually untrue, which you can see by scrolling up and reading his original Oct. 7 post.

Luigi, just because it was "obvious" to you doesn't mean it was "obvious" to everyone else. Im not as intelegent as you are I guess.

No he didn't MENTION Riker or Kyle, but he said "Troi has the exact same relationship with her mother". Who else would he be compairing her relationship with her mother to from this episode? Worf? Wesley? O'Brian? John Tesh? Santa Clause?

But thanks for jumping in here again, although im surprised you did since it wasn't John A Lang I was "anti nitting".

Oh! I almost forgot, thanks for the multi colored breakdown of the posts, I love those! But could you make the letters orange next time?

Again, he mentioned in his post what he was comparing her relationship to. He was comparing her relationship to the description that Troi herself gave, which Kerrie mentioned earlier, and which Brian himself quoted in his post. I pointed this out to you in my post above. Did you actually read Brian's post? Or mine?

Again, your statement that Brian "said" anything about Riker or his dad in his post is untrue. All you have to do is read his post to see that. Why are you not addressing this?

It hasn't nothing to do with anyone being smarter than anyone else. You're simply ignoring the exact content of others' posts, and claiming things were said in them that were not, even when it's pointed out to you. Why is this?

Why do you continue to makes comments that imply that choosing to participate in a discussion that originally began between two people is somehow unsual or unique to me, or that the way I format my posts is relevant? Group participation in threads is the norm here, and has been for all the years I've been here. Ditto for formatting quotes when responding to them, which many people here do.

Also, the Troi/Pulaski "They never do grow up, do they?" dialogue was just silly.

Espically given the fact that Troi has the same relationshp with her own mother

Read the phrase with a certan word in bold type. I just mentioned the dialogue and than started talking about why it was strange giving the circumstandes. Just because u didn't get what I was trying to get across doesn't mean that I didn't say it.

And you know what John-boy, I'm sorry that you are beefing with some people around here because you don't like them talking smack about Voyager and they don't like you talking smack about Enterprise. further more I'm sorry that you and Luigi had an argument about what was and was not flaming but none of that stuff gives you the right to come into the middle of a discussion and start being insulting toward me.

I should add the disclaimer that the second paragraph in my most recent post above should've been deleted when I was proofreading it, as John-boy did indeed adress that point in his last one. Sorry about that.

Luigi, maybe I ignore what you "point out" to me because I don't like you. Why is it your job to "Point Out" this stuff anyways? Oh yea, because you know everything.

And you are the only one that does muilt colored breakdowns of posts. I like those actually, and am sad that you didn't do it this time!

And Brian, im sorry that i was insulting to you, I guess I miss read what you were saying, as was "pointed out" to me.
Im moving on. Good day.

I point stuff like this out because that's what these boards are for: discussion. I pointed out the matter of the anbo-jytsu ring because you claimed someone said something in that scene that they didn't. I pointed out what Brian said in his post because you claimed he did not say it. If you don't like me, maybe it's because I point out when you behave in a very hostile manner to other visitors here who do not do anything to deserve it. I commend you on your apology to Brian, but is it not true that you seem to behave this way repeatedly with different people here over and over? I just wish you could provide your alternate viewpoints without doing this.


I am not the only one who does multi-colored quotes. TomM and Sparrow47 do as well. But in any case, what difference does it make? If I put the quotes I was responding to in boldface like JoshM, or in italics like Darth Sarcasm or Benn, would that make it better?

Appology accepted, John-boy.

anoncorpolover, your remark was 'ad hominem' and has been removed. The following two remarks were removed because they related to it, though they were not 'ad hominem'.

John-Boy, on the first page of the Garbage Dump, below the topic list, there is a link to the definition of 'ad hominem'.
If you wish to complain about myself or any other moderator, the Chief has his e-mail address at the top of the topic list. You may contact him that way.

All the other posts have been moved to the Garbage Dump.

John-Boy, I can only ask why you spend time here, if you dislike the site and the people?
Trying to provoke me into an exchange of insults will not work.

Influx, the site Benn was talking about was the comic book message boards of writer/columnist Andrew "Captain Comics" Smith.

Benn, I know I already said to you via email, but it deserves to be said here: I'll miss you. You were among the many visitors I got to know when I first came here years ago, and with whose polite, intelligent discussion style I was immediately impressed. I'm glad I got to know you, despite the differences we've had, and Nitcentral will be much poorer for your absence. Try not to be a stranger, okay, buddy?

Whoops. Sorry, Butch. I had the "New Message" window open for some time, before you dumped those other posts.

No problem. I hope Benn won't leave us completely, myself.

Butch, you left the Garbage Dump publically readable.

Only the small portions of it visible on the Last Day page. The rest can only be read by moderators.

Butch: No problem. I hope Benn won't leave us completely, myself.

Same here.

Dump's closed now.

You know, I started thinking about the painsticks and the Age of Ascension ritual, and I have to wonder how this started, before the painstick was invented- my theory is that it began with two burning branches pressed into the side, evolved to a cattle-brand in the iron age, and eventually, on the Qu'nos News Network...

"Ever have trouble distinguishing the scars you earned in battle from the scars your friends gave you? Tired of the smell of burnt flesh attracting targs while you're trying to sleep? I'm Grokt, son of Dur'lekt, and I switched to using the K'lek Deluxe Painstick! Now, I can experience all the pain of an Ascension Ritual without any of those unseemly non-battle scars and burns! And best of all, there's no dishonor involved, because your K'lek Deluxe Painstick is guaranteed to give you all the pain- or MORE- of a burning brand to the side, or your money back!"

"Hello, Emperor K'less the second here, I just want to say what a real pleasure it is to use K'lek Pain sticks. You know in my day we only had burning sticks, I find the pain stick deluxe to be a REMARKABLE device. Here I thought Tri-corders were impressive but these are even better...because you can get hurt by them! and hurt your friends *wink* K'lek pain sticks, try them and it will bring JOY to your heart! hahaha"

"Also, the Troi/Pulaski "They never do grow up, do they?" dialogue was just silly. This is entirely basic stuff, the kind most females figure out instinctively by about age twelve. () The fact that a highly-trained female Starship counsellor/psychologist even needs to be reminded of it is patently ridiculous. Between these two particular women the dialogue should have been much more frank and sophisticated. (Then again, so should the whole plot of this ep.)" - kerriem
I also think it's a little absurd (though good foreshadowing of the 90s-onward in which TV is resolute in it's stance that anything that's a 'guy thing' is moronic and indicative that the males of the species is barely beyond cro-magnon level- especially in sitcoms) is that they keep referring to this match as 'barbarism' that's about to take place- whereas others call Anbo-Jitsu the ultimate refinement of the martial arts, which in and of themselves are usually considered the most 'cultured' (for lack of a better term) method of combat or self-defense; according to Enterprise, even the Vulcans have a martial arts style. And if it's so barbaric (the dialogue seemed to suggest it was just one level above hitting each other on the head with tree-branch clubs) then why does the Enterprise have a gymnasium for it onboard?
Clearly Troi and Pulaski are more than a little biased, but it's really annoying, as you point out, kerriem, because the dialogue descends to the level of "Boys are stupid! Grlz power rules! We are so much cooler and smarter than them!" cliches which doesn't sound right coming out of the mouths of grown-ups, much less 'enlightened' 24th century grownups.

And if it's so barbaric (the dialogue seemed to suggest it was just one level above hitting each other on the head with tree-branch clubs)
IIRC they fought using somekinda staff which, if you think about, isn't that far removed from tree branches. ;-)

Actually, that's why I added the phrase 'tree branch'... technically they ARE hitting each other with clubs... ;-)

Unh! Unh! Grunt! Grunt! *pounds chest* ;-)

You know, thinking it over, a couple of things come to mind.

The basic egotism of people & how some of them (including SF screenwriters) keep looking down on the past & how they think things & people will keep improving despite all evidence to the contrast.
Phil mentioned in the Guide about the crew generally putting down the 20th Century. This episode referring to anbo-jytso as barbaric. People who say things like "Well, this is the (current year or century), not (some earlier time period)!", as if that really means anything.

A lot of so-called advancements are really just technological. (As Khan pointed out in Space Seed. ;-)
Cooking food can be done over a fire, on a stove, or in a microwave oven, but it still boils down to "making food hot".
Anbo-jytso is just a safer form of hitting people with sticks.

I've complained in other episodes about how the prop people try to make something appear "futuristic" even though what we see doesn't work as well as something that currently exists.
In particular flashlights, the palm beacons in NextGen, the wrist-mounted monstrosities in Voyager & yet the best use of a light was invented by miners... lights mounted on a helmet, keeping your hands free & always putting the light where you are looking (not to mention protecting the person's head, which the "enlightened humans" of the 24th century usually neglect).

So on the one hand Troi & Pulaski are correct about anbo-jytso, being "barbaric". On the other hand they themselves are demonstrating the basic egotism & elitism of people who think they are better than others.

Aside from all the previous arguments that this episode created, I wonder just who took that mission to the remote corner of the galaxy.

Who did become the Captain of the Aries? Did they return successfully? And did they find anything noteworthy that was useful to the Federation?

I guess we'll never know, because it was not condsidered important at the time, to be aware of threats elsewhere in the galaxy.

At least until the Borg debuted!

Did they return successfully?
They must have. We hear about a shuttle having been stolen from the Aries in the episode Identity Crisis in the fourth season.

I just remembered: Mitchell Ryan (Kyle Riker) played Jim Carrey's boss at his law firm in "Liar Liar". In one of my favorite scenes from that film, Carrey, as Fletcher Reede, an egotistical lawyer who lies as a second language, is suddenly unable to lie because of his son's birthday wish (?!) Anyway, Reede takes advantage of this and tells his boss and colleages EXACTLY what he thinks of them. And surprisingly, everyone bursts out laughing! Everyone that is, but the lawyer played by Amanda Donohoe, who had previously seduced and slept with Reede. Apparently her plan to have Reede be humiliated completely backfired, and she is not at all amused!

Oh well. Back to Trek. I happen to think that John Tesh actually did make a good Klingon, as he's 6'7". Only Koral from "Gambit", at 6"9", was taller. And Koral actually had a few lines, but Tesh's holo-Klingon didn't speak at all!