By Mf on Monday, December 28, 1998 - 10:01 am:

One of the dumbest lines in DS-9: "Killing your own clone is still murder."

I had a huge problem watching Riker kill the two clones here.

I had another problem with the colonists being directed to (and embracing) polygamy.

I'm no prude, but there wasn't a moment's hesitation at either of these morally questionable plot points. Such hesitation, debate, etc. would have made for a much better episode.
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By Nat Hefferman on Wednesday, April 7, 1999 - 02:38 pm:

I was amazed that in a series normally as progessive as Trek, that the writers would fall back on some of the most offensive racial stereotyping for comic effect. The Bringloidi men are a bunch of lazy, drunken ne'er-do-wells, while the women are sharp-tongued shrews. As a person of Irish descent, I found this episode to be offensive and insulting, and I'm also amazed that Colm Meany agreed to be part of it. Think about it; if the Bringloidi were black, with the men portrayed as shuffling Stepin Fetchit types, mumbling "yassuh boss", and the women as kerchief-wearing "mammies", would this episode ever get on the air? No way!
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By BrianB on Saturday, April 10, 1999 - 06:34 am:

You're right, Mf. Odo did say (not to Riker, of course), "Killing your own clone is still murder". Riker even aborted the holo-musketeer Riker in "Hollow Pursuits". Given that attiude, I'm suprised he didn't kill himself (Tom) in "Second Chances". That, loosely applied of course, may qualify as a Changed Premise".
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By Keith Alan Morgan on Saturday, April 24, 1999 - 08:19 am:

Just what is the problem with Starfleet research? It takes them several hours to determine that a signal is a distress signal and yet Riker and the ship's computer figure it out in seconds and dialogue indicates that this kind of distress signal was used for almost 70 years. We also learn that this signal started a month earlier, but then we see Picard and Riker getting information on who used it and what ships may have traveled to the Ficus sector. Shouldn't Starfleet research have done this groundwork when they got the signal a month earlier?

Riker has never heard of the European Hegemony and Picard tells him that it was the first stirrings of a world government, but this 'first world government' came about in the 2120's and yet from about 2036 to 2079 there existed a United Earth. So was the United Earth just a fancy title that meant nothing or was it the first world government?

In the NextGen Guide Phil wondered how the Bringloidi were able to send a distress call when they don't have any advanced technology on their planet, but one of the items taken on the S.S. Mariposa were monitor beacon satellites. So maybe the S.S. Mariposa left a satellite in orbit just in case? Dialogue does say that the solar flares may have triggered the distress signal.

The Prime Minister wondered why it took so long for any Humans to find them. Well, why not send messages to Earth or was that equipment destroyed by the crash? (Even if the crash did destroy that equipment, would it really be that hard for five scientists to rebuild? After all they did manage to make the cloning equipment work.)

Why didn't Wilson Granger act surprised when he saw Worf? The Mariposans don't have spacecraft and it seems unlikely that any Klingons would have landed on their planet so he should have been a little taken aback by this first sight of an alien.

I realize that it's a cute scene to show Riker and Worf wondering about all these look-a-likes, but how realistic is it? In a society filled with people who look like one of five people don't you think name tags would be a priority? Not to mention hair styles, hair dyes, combinations of beards and mustaches, symbolic and colorful clothing. Also isn't it incredible that all the clones appear to be the same age? The Mariposans may grow their clones to adulthood (as indicated by Riker and Pulaski's clones) , but wouldn't the clones age normally from then on? (Or when the clones start to look too old do they just kill them off?)

If Geordi was trying to find Riker and Pulaski, then why didn't he try to contact them on their communicator badges?

Geordi asks Riker and Pulaski where they went and they remember being summoned to the Prime Minister's office, then nothing. However, they must have woken up after having their cells stolen, so why didn't they think it odd that suddenly they were waking up in a strange place? When I wake up in an odd place I usually try to remember how I got there, so why didn't Riker and Pulaski?

The Mariposans use needles to remove the stomach cells, did they also use something to speed up the healing of the puncture? Why didn't Pulaski's scan reveal the needle probe scar that went from their skin to their stomachs?

Geordi was supposed to put together a team to go down to the planet and repair the Mariposans equipment, but we never see any evidence of a team. Also, if there was a team, did Pulaski check them for missing epithelial cells?

If Geordi knew that the clones were lying about Riker and Pulaski's whereabouts, did he tell the captain this?

I guess after this episode the Federation must have decided that clones are people two.

Why did they only want two cell samples? Considering how shallow their gene pool is, I would think that they would grab samples from all of the Away Team.

Maybe the unseen members of the Away Team were aliens or had genetic disabilities?

One possible difference between the clones of this episode and of A Man Alone is that the clones here are still in their mechanical 'wombs', where the clone in AMA was able to walk around and do things. In essence it's possible that Riker & Pulaski's clones are dependant on their 'wombs' (like a fetus) while the clones in AMA had already been 'born' and was already a person. Legally a fetus can be aborted before a certain age, but once it is born, killing it is murder.

After having a rather large needle jabbed through your belly, you'd think that both Riker and Pulsaki would have commented how sore their stomachs felt.
The farmer's daughter is a bit of a hypocrite, apparently believing in the 'do-as-I-say,-not-as-I-do' theory, since she simply walks away from her chores to walk around the ship with Riker, and then neck with him in his quarters, and then when she comes back she's bossy to eveyone, berating them for slacking off.
I think it's Nit Volume 2 that says that when Riker is stunned and taken away, he looks to one side, but I don't see this upon viewing.
It seems as if Riker is sent down completely by himself without an away team to the first planet. Picard tells him to beam down, and neither makes any mention of any crew accompanying Riker. Isn't this pretty dangerous, considering nobody from the Federation has set foot on the planet since the original settlers?

About the racial stereotyping:
I'm part Irish myself and I did some background research into the episode. Amazingly enough, it was conceived by an Irishman! (If Larry Nemecek is to be believed.) My Irish grandmother didn't find anything offensive, although she and I did wonder at the point when Danilo O'Dell asks Worf "how can we make poteen without the bloody ship firing bloody lightning at us". Profanity is an odd thing, but this seems a little overplayed.
Then again, this was on the whole a cute episode which allowed for sitting back and just plain enjoying it. I agree 100% with Picard's line:
"Sometimes, you just have to bow to the absurd!"

Well, I'm back nearly a year later... clearly there aren't that many with comments on this episode, so I'll add another:
Someone has wondered how Riker and Pulaski could have woken up in a strange place. Maybe they didn't - maybe they were returned to the Prime Minister's office after their cells were extracted.

Someone? SOMEONE? You couldn't be bothered to scroll up & read the name? Hmmmph.

So you think Riker & Pulaski would just come to in the Prime Minister's office & not think it strange?

Okay, maybe skirt-chaser Riker is used to waking up in strange places, but fully dressed?

(Missing scene
Riker: *yawn* Oh, Mistress Beata you were wonderful! Wait a minute? This isn't Angel One.)

Keith Alan Morgan

Maybe this is mentioned in the TNG Guide I, but since I haven't read that book I'll just continue, but fell free to enlighten me:

When the awayteam beam down to Mariposa for the first time Riker moves before the reasembly proces is completed.

Why don't the Mariposans erect some kind of forcefield around their clone-lab or at least post some armed guards. Surely they aren't that naive to think that their little "loan" would go undiscovered?

Just a wonderment: Does Picard actually have the authority to seize the cloning equipement of the Mariposans and conduct a search of their laboratory?

According to Pulaski the joint colony of Mariposans and Bringloidis have to give up monagami for several generations in order to have a healthy society, genetically speaking. Yet the Bringloidi have survivied this long using monogamous mariages. Doesn't this mean that either the Bringloidi is also having genetic problems or the Enterprise left a portion of the Bringloidi population behind when they evacuated the planet?

If the original scientists knew about genetic fading why didn't they ensure that they would have sufficient supplies of cells from the original settlers. With such advanced equipment is should be relatively easy to preserve samples of their own epitalian? cells, and perhaps even make them grow. (but then again I'm not a biologist/doctor so maybe it's impossible).

When Troi tries to defend the Mariposans she says "We have much in common, they're human beings fighting for survival". Not to become too technical, but isn't Troi half-Betazoid/half- Human.

Was it really neceassary to transport all that hay back to the Enterprise?

But otherwise a pretty funny episode, quite enjoyable.

Does Picard actually have the authority to seize the cloning equipement of the Mariposans and conduct a search of their laboratory?
Well, he does have the big ship with all the deadly weapons.

Never argue with a man with a badge and a gun.
Ever hear of the police state?

The real reason that Pulaski recommended polyandry was to remove the potential stigma on those children who would be born a little over a year later. If all children for the next few generations have multiple "fathers," it would hide the fact that some of them were the result of enriching the gene pool with the DNA of Enterprise crewmen. And relieve those crewmen from the obligation of child support.

Riker kisses the Irish woman with the exposed navel (can't remember her name)

GUESS WHAT SHOULD'VE HAPPENED, EVERYONE!

Uh... Malcom Reed appears, and says...

BZZZZ!

TROI appears and says...."Hands off! He's mine!"

Thanks for playing "Who Wants To Be A Scpipt Supervisor?"

No... Troi appears and says "Hands off... SHE's mine!"

I cannot help but wonder what the Irish woman's father would say if he found out that his daughter partially disrobed herself in front of a stranger.(Riker) Is such a practice considered NORMAL for these people?

Well considering he was going to sell her to the captain, if memory serves, I don't think he'd really care.

FUNNY THOUGHT: I wonder if any of the farmers was an elderly man surnamed McDonald? (E-I-E-I-O)

Nah... That would be Scottish, not Irish/Celtic.

Two points.

Since When are Scots not Celtic? Modern Scots are descended mainly from the Scotti - Celtic raiders from Ireland. The Picts -- the "original" inhabitants of the northern half of Britain -- were distantly related to the Britons -- the ancestors of the Welsh, the Cornish, and the Bretons.

McDonald is almost as common a name in Ireland as it is in Scotland.

Mc Donald is the Irish spelling, Mac Donald, the Scotch.

I bow to your superior knowledge. I am wrong.

At 27 minutes into the ep, when Pulaski, Riker and Worf beam down to Mariposa, Pulaski BEAMS DOWN!!! It would seem her hatred of the transporters has waned since "Unnatural Selection", no?

Why would polyandry be necessary? Couldn't the Enterprise ask the Federation to solicit colonists to go to Mariposa and settle with these two groups? The polyandry suggestion seems based on the idea that these two groups will have only their own people with whom to reproduce, and that there aren't a lot of women in either group. I'm sure there are people who would find the Bringloidi's way of life appealing, and I'm sure others would want to live with the Mariposans.

TomM: The Picts -- the "original" inhabitants of the northern half of Britain -- were distantly related to the Britons -- the ancestors of the Welsh, the Cornish, and the Bretons

:: Related by virtue of getting their Gaulish butts handed to them by Brutus the Trojan, from whom the Britons derive their name? (All legend, of course.)
And don't forget the original Celtics (NOT from Boston) who, from 1921 through 1929, averaged 120 victories and 10 losses per year, largely barnstorming. They won the American Pro League title twice in a row (1926-27 and 1927-28) but then the league broke the team up, with the players going to other franchises.

Is it me, or does the scene where the Mariposan leader gawks at the pregnant Bringloidi woman remind anyone else of the movie The Wicker Man, espcially the scene in the movie with Inspector Howie in teh graveyard?

I think that the requirement for polyamory makes some sense, since there are so few "different" Mariposan clones, and the replicative fading is so bad. Also, it would better if some chidren were produced that were full Bringloidi as well as ones taht were Bringloidi/Maraposan. Perhaps the back to nature Bringloidi would not have as much problem with polyamory as. . .others. Additionally, the Mariposans seem to be rather disgusted by sexual reproduction of any sort, much like the "civilized" side in the novel Brave New World.

Barrie Ingham (Danilo) was the voice of the Disney title character "The Great Mouse Detective."

I've just rewatched this episode and am amazed that it was allowed to be screened. It's just rasist and offensive. The Bringloidi, obviosly supposed to be Irish, are protrayed to be idiots. As someone from Dublin, I know my fair share of Irish idiots, but this is ridiculous.

FYI, the word bringloid is the gaelic word for dream.

Well yeah its racist. Its also badly writtin and acted.
But, and this is actually the thinking of some people, it can't be racist. You see racism, as the argument goes, is only the negative portral of a minority group (ie anyone that isn't white.) So if the Enterprise picked up a group of black people that spent the entire episode drinking 40ozs, eating watermellon and fried chicken, and going mmmmm-hmmm *THEN* it would racist. But its only portraying Irish people (who are white) is stupid, slutty, drunks; so thats ok in their eyes. :/
Welcome to Hollywood folks, professional liars and dumb - asses only need apply

Actually it wouldn't be racist because the Irish are not a race, they are a nationality. Also what about Code of Honor? Remember the spear chucking black natives of Ligon II one of whom is willing to kill his black wife in order to get white Tasha?

OK everyone, we went through the "Is Star Trek Racist" debate some time back. Take any further discussion of the matter to "Political Musings".

The Mariposans are idiots.

I mean, who'd want to clone PULASKI?

Deanna Troi I can understand...but not Pulaski

Maybe they were hoping they'd get the younger version from the cloning process?

See Return To Tomorrow(TOS) and Is There In Truth No Beauty?(TOS) for a younger Diana Muldar.

Perhaps.

But I'D love to have a few Deanna Troi clones!

Gee really. I never coulda figured it out.

A younger Diana Muldar (From Return to Tomorrow and Is There in Truth No Beauty?) doesn't look that much better to me than the older Diana Muldar from this episode! yuk!

How come you guys didn't totaly trash this episode like you did "Fair Haven"?

Oh thats right--Because Voyager can do no right! Sorry! I forgot about that for a second there.

The real moral is you should leave cloning to the Mandalorians.

Or the Vorta.

So if the Federation had to attack this planet would it be a Clone War?

Isn't it odd that when Riker says he won't donate DNA to the Mariposans, they just say "everyone else will probably feel the same way" and never address the subject again?

Is polyandry really a better solution that Picard at least trying to get people to donate their cells? It's not like anyone would be forced and it's not like they're even asking for sex cells, no little room with a cup and a magazine or anything. Just some stomach cells. I bet out of 1014 people, *some* of them would say sure.

A while ago, Teral brought up the question of whether or not Picard has the authority to storm the cloning lab as Riker does after the crew discovers the cell theft.

I ask, why wouldn't he?

After all, the Mariposans assaulted two Starfleet officers, kidnapped them and conducted a medical procedure on them without their consent. Frankly, I'm surprised that Granger wasn't arrested.

After rewatching this episode, I think that the Bringloidi have a sufficiently large gene pool as it is, what they don't have is a planet.

Also, I think it would be unwise to mix the genes from the Mariposans and the Bringloidi. The Bringloidi have a healthy genetic makeup, where as the Mariposans have genetic flaws in the systems. If they start "bunking up," all it's going to do is introduce bad genes into the Bringloidi society.

To quote a famous starfleet capatain, wouldn't the better option be to "let them die?" Afterall, there are only five of them.

Many times when there is a large coming together needed for survival, the importance of that event is reproduced for ceremonial purposes in the following years. Like Harvest was in that DS9 episode where the Defiant crew get trapped in the past on some planet and Kira dies.

I can only imagine the type of "celebration" that would occur for the coming together of these two colonies. Instead of planting crops and the like, it'd a all night party called "orgy." I bet that's what you'd find on the planet if you visited a few years later...

I wonder if Captain Picard would be interested in attending...

I've always wondered this but I've been afraid to ask... at the end, the Bringloidi leader says he's going to go pick out "my three women," since Pulaski wanted each woman to have three children by three different men. I'm not good at math, but I wouldn't think that women needing three men would mean that each man would have three women, it could be less, or more, so the statement sounds odd. We don't have an accurate count of the total number of each gender, but I don't think he was right to just assume that number.

3 wives for each husband, 3 husbands for each wife...

Calling Dr. Phlox! Calling Dr. Phlox!

This episode could have been named "Code of Honor, Pt. 2." It's embarrassing, racist, and in my opinion, makes Riker a murderer.

It tries a little too late to make Pulaski likeable (though I liked how bad a liar she was).

Riker's flat-out rejection of donating DNA on behalf of the entire crew was a little selfish and short-sighted; I think there might be others enticed by the prospect of 'preserving themselves.' Riker could at least do them the courtesy of letting them ASK. Seems like a little bit of 24th century prejudice.

It's also ironic that Picard warns against bigotry in the final meeting of leaders considering the subject matter of the episode- the writers are racist towards the Irish and the characters are racist towards clones.

In addition, Riker's killing of the two clones is nothing short of cold-blooded murder. I'm sure it was intended as an allegory for abortion after rape ("I have been wronged, so let's make an innocent third party suffer!")- but it doesn't even poses the flimsy excuse of "my body, my choice" used in abortion debates; this is an entity entirely outside of Riker's person; he has no right to kill it. Likewise, they would probably use the abortionist claim that it 'isn't a person yet'- but frankly, Riker has no right to kill them regardless- at most, he and Pulaski have the right to take the beings' stomach cells back. The rest of these clones do not belong to them- the fact that they are creeped out or feel violated does not change that the clones are not 'theirs' and they have no right to kill them. And this is just logical extrapolation, leaving aside entirely the fact that Federation law apparently also considers killing your own clone murder (as established by DS9... unless that's only Bajoran law that Odo was quoting? If so, the non-death-penalty Federation would seem a bit backwards- or at the very least, hypocritical- in it's bill of rights!)

The ending is patently absurd; as another poster noted, no one even questions the morality of enforced polygamy- much less enforced polygammy that apparently doesn't even give the women the option to refuse; society endorsed gang-rape for any unwilling woman, more or less. And it's quite laughable how instantly (and well-rehearsedly) Troi jumps to the conclusion of the benefits of this merger after Picard says nothing more than their name.

All in all, this is one lousy episode.

I'm with you on this one Andrew, even if under federation law killing your own "unborn" clone isn't murder surely the prime directive means you would be tried under the clones planet's laws. Plus WHAT IS WRONG WITH RIKER I would have a slight problem with killing a clone of myself it would be rather unsettling and I'm sure a lot more people here would have similar views.

It would have been far better if the cells had just been in a jar in the corner and Riker had destroyed that, it would have made Riker seem far less heartless. BTW this isn't a dig at abortion but seriously could you honestly say you could take a gun to a perfect copy of yourself and pull the trigger?

Riker didn't actually tell the clones they couldn't ask the rest of crew just that they'd get similar answers. He was probably right all humans seem to have identical morals in the 24th century.

Re the stereotyping of the Irish I'm wondering if it was a dig at the rather more sympathetic portrayal the northern Irish were getting in the media. The IRA were massive and were getting a lot of good press in America maybe one of the writers wasn't happy about this and felt like getting their own back. Tho I doubt it was anything so deep or political just someone thinking we needed a laugh in this episode.

Plus Polygamy really wouldn't help the genetic troubles all you'd have at the end would be a ton of half brothers and sisters interbreeding causing the original problem again (tho I think even worse). That said maybe the feds could spread them out across the galaxy a bit to dilute the inbreeding a bit.

Ethics of cloning aside I'm with John on a few clones of Troi, *drools.

One other thing I think I forgot to mention; leaving all moral considerations behind and looking at the logi of this polygamy, at the end, the dipwad of a Brigloidi leader goes to pick out "My three women." Ummmm... I'm pretty sure they said that each woman would have to have children by at least three men. (Which kinda sounds like BS- as was mentioned here earlier, the Brigloidi were never mentioned as having unstable genetics, so they should have a sufficiently diverse population so as not to need to do anything differently- in fact, they really only need a place to live.) Even assuming that, somehow, they also shared the Maripossan's genetic woes and needed this mass-breeding program... which is a pretty big, unfounded, and generally dumb assumption... Unless my math is off, all that means is three men to one woman, not three women to one man. In fact, if all of the women picked the same three men... that would proabbly kill the men. :-) But theoretically, it would mean that no other men would have a woman. This scenario is unlikely, to say the least, but the principle is sound- if, say, only three women had their pick, and the first picked guys 1, 2, and 3, the second picked guys 2, 4, and 5, and the third picked guys 3, 5, and 6... guys 1, 4, and 6 would only be picked once each. Now, the way this would practically work out depends on the male/female ratio of the Brigloidi- but regardless, the number of 'women the leader would get' would depend on how many picked or were assigned him as part of their three- which could be one, or none.

In addition, isn't it rather idiotic for the interbreeding of two colonies in the first place? Doesn't the addition of the Maripossan DNA only degrade the Brigloidi gene pool, because not only are the Maripossan's genes degraded from replicative fading, but also if 5 clones of the same guy have children by Brigloidi women, they've now increased the risk of inbreeding by five more cases (since all of those children would share the father's DNA, which is already damaged anyway)-

(Whoops! Continuation of last post...)
whereas those same 5 children, fathered by Brigloidi men, would carry separate genes and expand the healthy breeding stock? Basically, the Maripossans would just be creating 5 more children that can't breed with each other.
Except, wait... the three men to one woman rule could theoretically be doing the same thing, depending on how many women one Brigloidi man has children with- making the whole polygamy angle even more absurd, uless there are three times as many men as women among the Brigloidi, ensuring no overlap.
Essentially, the Brigloidi had better be darn good record-keepers, and will probably need to employ match-makers for the next generation to ensure a lack of inbreeding that would just corrupt their gene pool all over again, due to all the shared parentages. What the heck?! How is this a good solution???

In fact, if all of the women picked the same three men... that would proabbly kill the men. :-

Assuming that there are roughly an equal number of men to women you'd want to limit each man to 3 babies each to make sure that you didn't have just a handful of studly guys being the "fathers of the colony." But you are probably right about needing matchmakers for at least the next generation. I remember in Arthur C Clark's Rama squeals there was a relatively small human population that gets separated for Earth and the rest of humanity. They end up taking genetic samples from everyone and coming up with the best 3 or 4 matches genetically and the people get to choose among those matches who they marry and breed with.

I'm no expert on genetics but if you started introducing the clones DNA to the Irish gene pool you'd end up with related people, there are only 5 clones and if three men marry each woman those children you have can't interbreed with any other clone children after a few generations causing the same problem. No matter how much you mixed and matched the clones it wouldn't be long before they'd all be related especially as Pulaski was obviously intent on only having clones married to the Irish leaving no Irish families to introduce healthy DNA to the half brothers and sisters trying to breed.

This episode is full of this, they make a very basic genetic mistake that only fooled me the first time I saw this cause I was ten. And then they try and squeeze in a pro abortion thing by having Riker kill an adult copy of himself a few hours from birth. I'm wondering if this was actually meant to be anti abortion as Riker kills his adult copy in cold blood and says it was his right. I've never seen an anti abortion advert but I expect they're something like that.

In DS9's "If Wishes Were Horses", Rumplestiltskin was almost a leprechaun. But Colm Meaney objected to that because he felt that they were an offensive Irish stereotype. That was years after this episode. I ask you, why did Colm not seem to have any problem with all the Irish humans and all their possessions being aboard the Enterprise? Does anyone know if he ever said he thought that the Bringloidi were offensive stereotypes of the Irish, as opposed to leprechauns?

I wonder about this. The O'Dell dude and his daughter were *VERY* Irish, while O'Brien is merely Irish-American. So maybe Colm the actor felt that they were not degrading the Irish with all the colonists and their simple ways.

As for the whole "Riker killing his clone" thing, I don't really have much of an opinion on that. He and Pulaski specifically stated that they did not wish to be cloned, and the Mariposans took the epithelial (sp?) stomach cells from them against their will! So what would YOU do in this situation? I know I would feel pretty much the way Riker and Pulaski did!

One more thing, regarding the "triplets" and "quadruplets". Were they real, or were the creators using fancy camera trickery to make it look like there were multiple copies of the Mariposans?

BTW, "John-Boy" is right about the Irish town holodeck program on VGR. I wonder if Colm ever felt THAT was a negative representation of the Irish people.....

I ask you, why did Colm not seem to have any problem with all the Irish humans and all their possessions being aboard the Enterprise?

Probably because when this ep was produced Colm was a struggling actor in a guest role. By the time of DS9 he was a main cast member.

*this post has been edited out*
sorry Andrew I would rather skate on the side of caution on this one and this whole topic is rather flammable

Andrew, this does not seem to be the most appropriate place to discuss this matter, just to let you know. I choose not to continue with it.

Ummm...? Okay. Uh... sorry if there was something seemingly untowards in my post...?

The very last sentence is not appropriate here. It is appropriate in PM.

Ah... okay. Well, I see that point; however, I think it's also relevant in the context of the discussion on cloning- perhaps the use of a baby/abortion was a politically-charged analogy, but since cloning isn't very real life relevant, it seemed an apt metaphor.

So, apologies if it seemed to spill over into an uncomfortable political topic. Since Star Trek is a message show, some conversations are apt to do that... :-)

Even if we accept Riker had the right to kill his own clone (which is an argument best not had lol) I find it slightly disturbing he was so willing to do it. I doubt I could bring myself to shoot a nearly full grown clone of myself.

Sure the clones shouldn't have stolen it but still when you think about what he's doing for a few minutes you suddenly realise what he's doing. Shooting himself.

"Killing your own clone is still murder." - Odo as he arrests Ibudan, DS9's "A Man Alone"

I just thought I would add this quote, I thought it was appropriate to the situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kw_d3d0XAo

Heh heh. I had forgotten about that one, thanks, Todd!

Killing your own clone is still murder under Bajoran law maybe news if this got out so a lot of nations brought it in.

Riker is under federation law here. Maybe it doesn't count if you don't constant to the cloning or if the process isn't finished. Or maybe it's something they never considered.

The Bringloidi established their colony around 250 years ago. So what have they been doing all this time, exactly? They are a pre industrial agrarian society. They are healtly, apparently happy and prosperous, and they have a whole planet to themselves. Under those favorable conditions, the Bringloidi could easily have doubled their population every generation. Assuming they have their first children at around age 20, there has been twelve or thirteen generations on the planet since the start of the colony. Even assuming they started with only two people, that would bring the current planet population to over 8000, and they more likely started off with something like a hundred colonists. That would easily bring the planet's population to over 400,000. Why are there only 223 of them?

Why have the Mariposa and Bringloidi colonies remained lost for 250 years? Here are two good and known M class planets not too far from Earth (the ships of the 22nd century were not very fast, they could not have ventured that far from Earth to establish their colonies). As far as Earth was concerned, they were uninhabited. There should have been other attempted colonizations of these planets during those 250 years, which would have rediscovered the lost colonies already established.

Replicative fading is a trivialy easy problem to solve. Instead of cloning from cells donated by each successive generation of clones, they should use stem cells cultivated for that purpose. Stem cells will remain genetically fresh and will divide indefinitely. They can be cultivated and kept viable forever. Using such cultures as starting points for the cloning procedure would keep the Mariposan clone population genetically healthy for as long as they wanted.

The Mariposan colony is populated by clones because they started out with only five individuals, three men and two women. Everyone else was killed in the crash of their ship.

First, it is lucky that the people with the skills to carry out the cloning procedure were among the few survivors, although it's not impossible that it could have happened.

Second, even though everyone else was dead, some cells remain viable long after someone is killed. The equipment they had brought with them was obviously still functional, they should have harvested and preserved samples of these cells so they could restore a healthy genetic population later. That's what I would have done.

Third, they seem to have decided very early not to procreate in the normal way. Why? A first generation of children from the five survivors would have been perfectly normal and healthy. They should have had as many of those as possible at the beginning to introduce as much variation as possible in their population before putting an end to their normal procreation.

Fourth, even with only five people to begin with, it is possible to breed a healty population if you carefully keep track of the offsprings genetic lines. And a little bit of genetic engineering can go a long way to correct any faults that do turn up. The Mariposan have the needed knowledge, they should at least have tried to go that way as well as using cloning. The two strategies could, and should have been used in parallel.

Fifth. The Federation is always looking for new worlds to colonize. Why not open the Mariposan colony to immigration in addition to leaving the Bringloidi there? It would have provided them with all the healthy fresh genes they could have wanted in no time flat. Or better yet, give the Bringloidi their own new world to live on and solve the Mariposan problem with immigration from the Federation. Bringing together two cultures as different as the Mariposan and the Bringloidi is asking for trouble, imho.

This lot would have left Earth around the time that Captain Archer's mission started.