This is not a nit, but I am curious as to why the Klingons and Romulans were not there. Perhaps the Barzans did not want them to have it?

The Barzans send in one probe and then offer the wormhole for sale? That's poor science, if not bad business. Shouldn't they know what they are sellling?


Did Devonai Rai (spelling?) get off scott-free? Wasn't it fraud that he committed? Shouldn't Picard have arrested him?

I like the look that Geordi had when Data told him "You will have me to talk to"(or something like that)

For me, the biggest nit of this episode is:
Why the heck did Troi fall for this clown?
I'm SO happy that she would ultimately end up with Riker in "Insurrection."

What the hell was the writer thinking by having the computer say that chocolate has no nutritional value?! (My name is KAM. I'm a chocoholic.)

According to the probe the other end of the wormhole comes out past the Denkiri arm in the Gamma Quadrant.
According to The Visual Dictionary of the Universe, our galaxy has four arms called the Orion Arm (our arm), the Sagittarius Arm, the Crux-Centaurus Arm, and the Perseus Arm. So is the Denkiri Arm another name for one of these, or have more arms been discovered between now and the 24th century?

I was watching Ral paw Troi and I thought if I tried that the woman would scream for the police and start hitting me, then I realized that it was just a woman's fantasy. The woman sits there passively while the man she finds attractive does all that she wants, but that she is afraid to tell him to do because 'good girls' don't do that.

Ral says that the Chrysallians have had peace for ten generations. An interesting way to phrase the passage of time since a generation could be a month or less or a century or more. Was Ral just trying to fool Bhavani into thinking the Chrysallians have had peace longer than they really have?

The magnification of Geordi's VISOR must be incredible if he can see Meson and Lepton activity increasing. Mesons are Subatomic particles and Leptons are a class of Subatomic particles.

Troi's workout outfit certainly emphasizes her breasts. Did a man or woman pick out that particular outfit for Marina Sirtis to wear? Hmmm.

I just don't understand why it's supposed to be a conflict of interest.

This stable wormhole was supposed to open up into the Gamma Quadrant. So why was no one on the Bridge surprised when the shuttle reported they had been in the Delta Quadrant?

Near the end, the stars outside of Troi's quarters don't move. (Maybe that's why she later moved to deck 8? ;-)

Yeah, Ral is a scummer. That's why I loved the scene in Ten-Forward where Riker tells him off.

"Deanna is just the woman to bring some purpose into your sorry existence, if you're smart enough to take her. I doubt that you are."

Go Will!

I agree. Troi's MINE! And I must say I am EXTREMELY envious of the actor who played Ral...not only does he get to put hot oil on Sirtis'(Troi's) feet...but also get kissed by Marina Sirtis (Troi)...AND SHE STRADDLES HIM IN BED!

MOVE OVER, RAL! LET ME IN THERE!

I must add that all of Troi's outfits during her "special time" with Ral are HOT! I really liked the gym outfits too! >I< was the one who needed the cold shower after that excercise sequence!

>"Deanna is just the woman to bring some purpose into your sorry existence, if you're smart enough to take her. I doubt that you are."

Go Will! >

I agree, but neither is Will. He wasn't smart enough to "take" he when he had the chance.

Seriously, I think this episode sets a record for most outfits Deanna wears in an episode--6. That's more outfits than we've seen on Geordi on the entire series (not counting away missions.)

**CHEESECAKE ALERT!**

When Troi bends over to get a closer look at the computer screen, you can see a LOT of cleavage! (I'm not complaining, mind you...I just enjoyed the "view")

John A. Lang
You naughty boy

Though I must admit ths episode just seems like a way to get Troi into all of those sexy postions.

My respect for Troi wavered a lot during this episode. On the one hand, why on EARTH (err, poor choice of words, but anywho) would she fall for this sleazebucket who was clearly just trying to manipulate her? The guy just screamed "smarm", and used the most obvious pity tactics I've ever seen. "You've got to save me from myself..." *gag* Moreover, why would she agree to keep his empathetic powers a secret, when she knew it would affect the negotiations? She's an educated person; she should know better!

On the other hand, she did get an absolutely killer reaction to his pleas of "You're the only one who can help me, be my conscience, save me from myself" (paraphrased). It was priceless: "Sorry, I already have a job as a counselor." YES! Exactly appropriate response! At that point I literally exclaimed "You GO girl!" with my fist raised, then quickly looked around to see if anyone was watching (they weren't). Interactive Star Trek: Ya gotta love it.

This episode did have a high cheesecake factor, with lots o' shots of Troi in nightgown, Troi in lowcut dress, Troi AND Crusher in spandex workout gear, etc etc etc. Although I have to say Crusher's outfit was a lot more flattering to herself, than Troi's outfit was on her. Then again, I'm not much of a fan of pink. *shrug*

Freya-Do you mean pink, as in the color, or "Pink", as in the singer whose videos are always on either MTV or VH-1?

I mean pink the color, not Pink the singer (I strive for a flawless grasp of the English language, so the lowercase would never be a typo). Pink the singer...eh. She's all right. I've seen a video or two of hers, and it's not half-bad, although I wouldn't buy any of her CDs. I hate to label her product as "she tries too hard", but...she tries too hard. The whole thing smacks of effort. "Look at me! I'm so alternative with my skimpy leather cossies and permanent scowl! Buy my stuff to cheese off your parents!" Meh.

Personaly I like her second CD better because she started as a kind of white-girl version of Destany's Child and rather than copy that for her second CD she went to more of a rock/funk sound. Also she once came to an awards show wearing just laytex body paint for a shirt.

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Quote:

Also she once came to an awards show wearing just laytex body paint for a shirt.

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Brian Fitzgerald: Also she once came to an awards show wearing just laytex body paint for a shirt.
Yeah, I was there. I wore an open can of turpentine as a belt.

Yeah, I was there. I wore an open can of turpentine as a belt.

Me and a (female) friend from work decided that someone needs to come to an awards show naked. Not for a sexual reason, just because their isn't much left to shock people anymore. The closest anyone's ever come to it was either Rose McGowan in a thong and fishnet dress or Jim Carry in a fig leif.

Lil' Kim and Christina Aguilera are close runners up.

Not to mention Jennifer Lopez.

Not really, IMHO. There was only that one dress, and it wasn't as skimpy as they made it out to be. It simply had a plunging neckline. Aguilera and Kim, on the hand, make a habit out of dressing like desperate groupies.

And Aguilera wears enough makeup for 8 hookers...

Freya:I hate to label her product as "she tries too hard", but...she tries too hard. The whole thing smacks of effort. "Look at me! I'm so alternative with my skimpy leather cossies and permanent scowl! Buy my stuff to cheese off your parents!" Meh.

LOL! I am absolutely in agreement. (You didn't even mention Don't Let Me Get Me, which is I think meant to demonstrate how empowered she is as compared to "d@amn Britney Spears"...but to my ears comes off instead not much more than a longish self-pity party. To which, after the eighty-fifth-or-so radio play, I got VERY tired of being invited. )

Erm, no offence meant, CC.

And Aguilera wears enough makeup for 8 hookers...
Up yours. How dare you compare us with that cheep slut.

"d@amn Britney Spears"

That line always strikes me as funny the rest of it is "she's so pretty that just ain't me" because of who is speaking it. While Pink may not look like a Barby doll she's not exactly Rossie O'Donnal either, she's a really hot girl. Kind of like when Sheral Crowe talked about hollywood's obsession with youth. She's a 40+ woman who looks 30. I'd take it more seriously when someone who isn't young looking and drop dead hot talks about how hard it is for someone their age.

This conversation got SLIGHTLY off topic! Anyone remember the Next Generation episode called "The Price"?

I think Ral won the negotation without his powers. In the scene where Riker first sits in as the Federation representative, Ral argues that, unlike the Federation, the Chrysalians are nobody's enemy. That seems to be the right tack to take with the Barzan, who desire peace. Had he pulled that big gun out earlier, he could have easily blown the Federation out of the water. I can't picture anyone from the Federation being able to counteract Ral's argument without looking really bad. This scene reminds me of the scene in Errand of Mercy, when Kirk finds himself arguing in favor of the right to wage a massive war.

I think I can explain why Picard does not arrest Ral when his actions are revealed. He is the Chrysalians' representative, and Picard wanted to avoid a diplomatic incident when the Chrysalians indignantly demand their trade representative's release and accuse the Federation of sour grapes because they lost. Picard would probably let Ral go, and make sure the Chrysalians know what he did, so when they find out the wormhole is largely useless, they'll deal with the man who stuck them with it.

Um...what law did Ral break for Picard to arrest him?

I believe Rene is right. What Ral did was highly unethical, but legal. Of course, I'm sure Picard did let the Chrysalians know what lengths Ral went to to get them a useless wormhole.

The wormhole in this episode looks nothing like any of the wormholes featured later in the franchise.
Buddy Holly, Buddy Holly, Buddy HOLLY!
For that matter, it doesn't even look like the same wormhole featured in "False Profits" (VOY) (and neither do the Ferengi or their ship!")

Matt McCoy, who played John A. Lang's nemesis Ral, also played George Costanza's nemesis Lloyd Braun in several episodes of "Seinfeld." "Serenity now...insanity later."

Elizabeth Hoffman (Bhavani) will be remembered by "Stargate" fans for playing Catherine in two early episodes of the show.

Not having seen the episode in some time, is that the same Scott Thompson of "Kids in the Hall" fame as DaiMon Goss? According to TvTome, it is (and it isn't that odd, since Thompson was on "Voyager"), but I'd like to make sure.

Dan Shor (Dr. Arridor, who reprises his role on Voyager some time later) was Ram, one of the cyber-warriors, in the classic film "Tron."

The sadly deceased Kevin Peter Hall (Leyor) played the Predator in the Predator series and was Harry the Bigfoot in "Harry and the Hendersons."

This episode is the first ever mention of the Gamma and Delta Quaudrants on Star Trek.

One post moved to the Garbage Dump.

Actually, Thande is correct in at least two of those three points of contrast. A different actor plays Koll in that episode, and the cockpit of their shuttle is different: the number console domes in front of the seats changes, the seats themselves change size, the wall behind the seats changes color and setup, and a blue-lit panel appears in the background in the latter episode. (I don't recall offhand what the wormhole looks like in the two eps).

Even if Thande were wrong, that doesn't make his comment a lie, since a lie requires a deliberate deception on his part, which can't be determined simply if the statement is wrong. (He could simply have been mistaken after all.)

Lastly, "bashing" implies some type of insult or attack. But nowhere did Thande do that. He simply pointed out nits, which is something we do for all the Trek series and films. It's what this site was founded for.

Actually, Thande, didn't say anything about the cockpit of the shuttle. Where are you getting this from? Oh yea, you're just seeing what you want to see.

It is bashing just to be bashing, but thats ok as long as its Voyager you are bashing. Thats what this site was created for, bashing Voyager!

He mentioned thier ship. He may have been referring, therefore, to the cockpit, since that was different.

Yea you may be right, but i just didn't think of cockpit when he said ship.

See? I can admit when I'm wrong.

Cool.

Any one know the actual name of Ral's girlfriend from his opening scene?
Cheers

According to the script, it's Rojay.

Um...what law did Ral break for Picard to arrest him?

Fraud? Conspiracy?(with the Ferengi) Reckless endangerment?

What Ral did was highly unethical, but legal.

As a negotiator wouldn't he have some sort of credentials? Perhaps these would be revoked(or some other penalty)?


What the hell was the writer thinking by having the computer say that chocolate has no nutritional value?!

I believe some scientific studies have found that in moderation chocolate has some nutritional or positive health benefits. (If I ever find one I'll post it)

This note is so good, I HAD to post it here too.

Marina Sirtis HATES the romance scene with Devioni Ral- Matt McCoy.

YEAH!

Do you have any nits to add, or only pointless comments?

The threads are not solely for nits, but any comments related to the episode.

"Do you have any nits to add, or only pointless comments?"

they're pointless comments... note that he's talking about people's curves half the time... so obviously there's no points...

Everyone acts as though the wormhole has no value once they learn that that the other end is not stable but I disagree, maybe the wormhole is not a practical tool of transport but I imagine you could still find other uses for it, after all the Chrysalians have already paid for it so I would imagine they would find SOME use for all the moola they shelled out.

A few uses come to mind:

Whats that? you have a federation ship lost in the delta quadrant?? lucky for you we have all the maps they will ever need...for a price. : send a fleet of probes through the wormhole, each would come out at a different point and said probes could begin collecting data on this remote end of the Galaxy.

Penal Colony? who needs a colony??: got a life sentence? *KICK* to the Delta and/or Gama Quadrant you go! with no stable end on their side you can rest assured that the mass murder you punted is gone for good and your hands are unblemished for not having to order a death sentence.

Go west young man, go west!: The Alpha quadrant seems full of hearty soles that live for the unknown, get a convoy of ships together full of colonists and off you go. Sure it is a one way trip but in a couple of centuries when normal exploration has reached that end of space your Planet will be the first to have a Thriving group of colonies on the other side of the galaxy .....or the Borg could have taken them all over depending on where they exited but isn’t that part of the risk and excitement in exploration!?

Garbage problem? Now you see it. Now you don’t. Got pesky ancient barges full of toxic waste polluting your solar system/ no problem! For a small fee we can make sure that barge will never bother you again!

Garbage problem? Now you see it. Now you don’t. Got pesky ancient barges full of toxic waste polluting your solar system/ no problem! For a small fee we can make sure that barge will never bother you again!

And get your tails sued by the Malon, who hold the intergalactic patent on that business method!

Sued Shmood! they are 70,000 light years away!
but I suppose if you are really concerned about offending the local inhabitants of that region of space, for a extra fee we will package your waste products in federation shipping cartons, this masking you from any repercussions. Besides, we hear that the Federation actually has a ship out in that sector, let them deal with that mess...mind the pun ;)

Well, I'm assuming that the galactic patent court is similar to the GalCoNaRes (Galactic Court for Name Resolution) that Phil mentions - they're EVERYWHERE!!!!

Pineal Colony? who needs a colony??: got a life sentence? *KICK* to the Delta and/or Gama Quadrant you go! with no stable end on their side you can rest assured that the mass murder you punted is gone for good and your hands are unblemished for not having to order a death sentence.

Until he kills someone there that he wouldn't have been able to kill if you hadn't of sent him through the wormhole.

Don F - you have a federation ship lost in the delta quadrant?? lucky for you we have all the maps they will ever need
Why does everyone assume Voyager was lost? Even in the 20th century astronomers had mapped some stars 70,000 light years away. Okay, technically they mapped where the stars had been, but still if Voyager were truely lost then they wouldn't even know they were in the Delta quadrant. The fact that they did & could chart a course would indicate that they had, at least, a general idea where they were & how to get back.

<Edited out due to corrections in previous post>

Me, all those years ago - According to the probe the other end of the wormhole comes out past the Denkiri arm in the Gamma Quadrant.
According to The Visual Dictionary of the Universe, our galaxy has four arms called the Orion Arm (our arm), the Sagittarius Arm, the Crux-Centaurus Arm, and the Perseus Arm. So is the Denkiri Arm another name for one of these, or have more arms been discovered between now and the 24th century?
IIRC they have since revised the 4 arms to 2 arms, apparently the confusion was caused by our galaxy being a barred spiral type.

ScottN - your concerns are noted. we do however offer a variety of packages to disguise your waste in to avoid reprimand, IF framing the Federation doesn't suit your needs....This Packled shipping container seems to be very popular.

Chris - indeed, that is when the prime directive bites you in the keister.

KAM - True Voyager knows where it is in the general sense but long range scans ( and lets face it, 70k light years away is LONG) would give them only the most rudimentary Idea of what was out there. I was just pointing out that having a probe in the area would give details about things like local M class planets or if a Borg Ship had passed by recently...little things you might want to know about.

This episode made me sick - almost as sick as Seth Mendoza became after being poisoned by the Ferengi pyrocytes!

I hated Devinoni Ral. He was an annoying, condecending little SOB, and for Troi to have been involved with him, arrgghh, I just can't stand it. But I'm glad that he was exposed at the end as a cheat and a fraud, that was cool.

Reportedly, even Marina Sirtis hated having to do those love scenes with Matt McCoy, who would later go on to play Lloyd Braun on Seinfeld, a pain-in-the-ass character who antagonized both Jerry and George in a few of the later episodes.

Also, I wish that Kevin Peter Hall as the towering Caldonian Leyor would have been given more to do. As it was, his character was basically superfluous.

I really liked Troi's blue off-the-shoulders outfit, and so does Phil! He mentioned it in the second NextGen Guide.

As for the unstable Barzan Wormhole, what could the Crysailians possiblly do with it? It's worthless, as it would bring anyone going through to either the Gamma or Delta Quadrants, and trap them there!

This is one of the few third season TNG eps. I really don't like. I wonder who dirty Troi felt after sleeping with a man who was that incredibly manipulative and unscrupulous!

(Hey whatever happenned to JohnA Lang?)

did Deanna ever read her Mom's 3 messages?

That aspect of the dialogue is not particularly relevant to the plot, now is it?

[i]As for the unstable Barzan Wormhole, what could the Crysailians possiblly do with it? It's worthless, as it would bring anyone going through to either the Gamma or Delta Quadrants, and trap them there![/i]

That was part of the plot. The Federation chose to wait until they heard back from their science team about the wormhole. The Crysailians chose to sign on the dotted line before finding out all of the scientific facts. They were hopping to "scoop" everyone else and as a result got a wormhole that was stable at one end, but could jump to any random place on the other end. They got a dud. Plus according to Data the stable end would eventually destabilize too.

AMR - As for the unstable Barzan Wormhole, what could the Crysailians possiblly do with it? It's worthless, as it would bring anyone going through to either the Gamma or Delta Quadrants, and trap them there!
They could should unmanned probes through to scan/map the area the other end currently opens at & send back the information. True subspace messages would take years to get back, but on the other hand they don't have an even longer wait of sending a probe 'the slow way'. As a shortcut to unexplored parts of the galaxy (& possible races that live there) it does have a certain amount of value.