• Yesterday's Enterprise Pt. 2 June 29 - 1:08 pm

Does Picard not have brains in this episode? Why in the world does he let Tasha Yar go back with the C, knowing that her actions would affect the timeline? So she doesn't have that great a future in the "original" timeline...and why doesn't Guinan, who knows that Tasha's supposed to die a meaningless death, tell Picard that he's violating the Prime Directive as it applies to time? Or is there no such thing as the PD in this episode?

First, while there HAVE been some mentions of a Temporal Prime Directive (humorously, in DS9's Trials & Tribble-ations and seriously, but in the future, in Voyager's Future's End & Relativity), we have never heard what they are- so we don't know if Picard violated them (or if he's even privy to them). Second, the timeline had already been damaged when Ent-C went through the rift- i.e. it created the alternate timeline. Picard was acting to restore the original timeline. However, in the original timeline, the Captain of Ent-C was alive and, presumably, one of the reasons the Ent-C was able to hold off the Romulans long enough to help the Klingons and earn their gratitude, respect, and a treaty. Picard's sending Yar back to replace the dead Ent-C captain may have been what any Temporal Prime Directive REQUIRED him to do to maximize the chances of restoring the original timeline. Guinan's approval of Picard's actions confirms this (Picard's comments about Guinan's race imply they may have a kind of temporal intuition that told her what should be done). Aside from all that, the whole idea of giving Tasha a meaningful death after the ••••••, Useless one she had in Skin of Evil is one of a multitude of items that makes this TNG's best eposide and perhaps the best Trek ever.

oh- and by the way- even AFTER Picard sent Tasha back with the Ent-C, OUR Tasha STILL died a meaningless death- the event's of Yesterday's Enterprise DON'T change that- The Tasha who went back never really existed because her timeline was eradicated (I know, casues a headache as all temporal paradoxes do! :^). However, in a larger Karmic universdal sense, at least the prior poorly written death is sort of rectified.

I still question the true meaninglessness of Tasha's death (in the original reality). I mean Troi and an ensign were being held prisoner and they needed to be rescued! Perhaps as not much stronger vigor as trying to rescue her daughter from an "Evil Empire" (and failed).

Well- I would agree that TECHNICALLY Tasha did NOT have a meaningless death- that is , she DID die in the line of duty trying to save her comrades. HOWEVER, from a dramatic point of view, her death was a total waste- she's basically just blown away by the Skin thing and dies. No great saves. No great lines. Just dead. Now of course in real life, people die this way all the time. (uh..well..not exactly by Tar-like monster swats..but you get the point) But for a Trek regular biting the big one, it really was a pitiful excuse for a death. Y's E fixed all that. Now Tasha got to go down in a blaze of glory saving the Federation, the Klingons, the timeline, the whole kit and kaboodle. Much Much more satisfying.

I see some of you have already addressed this...but I have to say my peace. Picard decides to listen to Guinan and try to restore the "right" timeline. To do this, the Enterpise C must travel back through the time rift and all aboard the "C" must die defending the Klingon outpost. Picard then foolishly allows Tasha to go with the Enterprise C back through the rift to die a "meaningful" death. (As opposed to the meaningless one that Guinan mentioned to her earlier) Tasha then travels back 25 years with the Enterprise C and apparently dies. In the very last scene, The Enterprise "D" is now back in the "right" timeline and Guinan is talking to Geordi in 10 Forward. She states "Tell me about Tasha Yar." Why would Guinan ask this? If Tasha died defending a Klingon Outpost 25 years earlier, she would never have existed on the Enterpise D. Neither Geordi, nor the rest of the crew would know Tasha Yar.

Isn't it an alternate Yar that dies? She existed up to that point in time and then goes back 25 years and dies? Doesn't Guinan ask because it seems her race has an awareness that goes beyond time?

One: Tasha Yar did not die, as it turned out, except in an effort to rescue her daughter from an "Evil Regime."

Two: Tasha Yar went into the past into the other timeline, through a rift that can, as established in "First Contact," make one who travels through be impervious to a time change.

Three: In the restored Timeline, there are two Tashas. The one who was on the Enterprise D which we know, and the other who was on the alternative ship and then living on Romulus. She has a half human, half Romulan daughter.

Four: Guinan who due to her species (I like to ignore the Nexus as the catalyst for her ways of seeing things and see it as part of her species) is able to see things beyond linear time, knows something had happened, was concerned whether Picard and co. were all right (they were going down in flames in the other timeline) and then becomes curious about Tasha Yar because she senses something. The crew know Tasha Yar as being murdered by that "Blob" :P

Gotta hand it to those Romulans that attacked Narendra and the Enterprise-C; they must have been using weapons set on half power, when you consider that the little Romulan bird of prey from 'Balance Of Terror' had an implosion weapon that atomized an ASTEROID, and yet these dumb Romulans not only fail to destroy the Enterprise-C, but they also concentrate their fire on her saucer, rather than her engines, which could have been breached, vented plasma, and blow up the ship in no time.
Of course,if they did that, we wouldn't have such a cool episode.

There's a major flaw with this episode. In the new timeline created when the Enterprise-C flies through the rift, nothing from the real timeline which we watched every week would have happened. In "Time's Arrow" we find that Picard met Guinan in 19th century San Francisco after travelling back in time. The problem is, in the alternate timeline, Picard would not have travelled to 19th century San Francisco. Therefore, he would have never met Guinan. In that case, it's VERY unlikely that Guinan would have been present on the warship Enterprise-D. The episode should have gone something like:

1. Enterprise-C flies through rift.
2. New timeline is created, Klingon Empire is kicking the Federation's @$$.
3. Guinan notices the changes to the timeline but is unfortunately unable to tell Picard because she's stuck on Earth bussing tables at Ben Sisko's father's cajun restaurant.
4. The Klingons destroy both Enterprises and conquer the Federation. End of series.

Things Picard would have done differently if Guinan were bussing tables at Sisko's Cajun Bar.

Send a prize crew of 400 over to the 1701-C, not this couple of teams they did send. Immediatly take the C in tow with the main tractor beam and head for the nearest starbase at best possible speed, don't hang around at a fixed point in space!
Transfer advanced photon torpedoes over to the C immedietly to beef up her fighting power in case you are attacked or seperated on the way to the starbase mentioned above.
Send a complete battle report about how the C arrived up the chain of command.
Arriving at the Starbase put the C into the spacedock, then fly back with the D through the rift on orders from high command.
Die gloriously fighting the Romulans! At the end of the battle self destruct the D to avoid letting the old day Romulans capture any future technology. History records that the Enterprise was destroyed defending the Klingon colony of Narendra 3, the timeline changes radically upstream.
Meanwhile at the Starbase the D is coming in for a routine visit, they are startled to discover the C is in the dock, with 127 survivors from the Romulan battle aboard. Guinan figures out what happenned. Starfleet now has 2 starships named Enterprise, one Ambassadore class, one Galaxy class.

>"Tell me about Tasha Yar." Why would Guinan ask >this? If Tasha died defending a Klingon Outpost >25 years earlier, she would never have existed >on the Enterpise D. Neither Geordi, nor the rest >of the crew would know Tasha Yar.

Well obviously Guinan has an essense that is not defined by timelines. As Q said, she is not what she appears to be.
Also, yes she would die 25 years earlier, but she would also be born again whenever she was born, that wouldn't be affected. There would be two Tasha's.
And haven't you seen any more episodes than this. obviously she lives and doesn't die, because she gives birth to that half human, half romulan daughter (can't remember her name)

Correct alternate tastha died 25 years ago, origional Tasha still died in skin of evil.

As Picard tells Guinan in the fifth season premiere, "Tasha died...a year before you came on the Enterprise."

Alternate Tasha claims the Enterprise-D is the first Galaxy-class warship to be built. If that were true, shouldn't it be called "Enterprise-class" then?

The Alt-USS Galaxy could have been laid down first but for whatever reason the "Big E" was finished and commissioned first. Its happened

Espicaly durring time of war when resources can be hard to come by.

Phil, from his NextGen Guide; CP#1: Worf tells Guinan in the beginnning of the teaser that he would need a Klingon female for "companionship" because human females are too frail. Assuming they’re talking of sex, Worf has dishonored himself. After mating with K’Ehlyr in "The Emissary," Worf wanted to marry because it was the Klingon way. But in his conversation with Guinan in this scene, it appears he considers "companionship" viable without marriage.
Uh, no, Phil. Worf is simply saying that when he takes a mate (presumably entailing marriage), that he would want it to be a Klingon woman. He didn’t say anything about sex without marriage, only what type of female he would want to marry.When he and K’Ehlyr mated in The Emissary, he insisted they get married. After mating with Dax at the end of Looking for par’ Mach in All the Wrong Places(DS9), he again wanted to marry.

Phil, from his NextGen Guide Vol. II: PO#1: How much time did the warship Enterprise take to investigate the temporal anomaly? Did it fly out here to do so, or was it just passing through and stopped to take a look? Is this the type of activity the flagshp should be doing in the middle of a war?
It darn well would be a necessary activity if the anomaly could possibly be a cloaked Klingon ship or any other phenomena that could potentially be a threat to the ship or the Federation.


The Klingons hit all their clock factories, and now they have to start over from scratch
Since the alternate timeline was created 22 years prior to the events in this episode, that means that both the alternate timeline and the "real" one share a common timeline prior to that point. So why does Picard refer to the "combat date" instead of the stardate in his log in the beginning of Act 1? Since everything that occurred from The Cage through ST VI happened not only in the "real" timeline, but in the alternate one as well, (since the point of divergence was in 2344), that means that the stardate system should also have been present in that timeline. Perhaps the alternate timeline Starfleet guys decided to change it during wartime, but that doesn’t make any sense. First of all, we didn’t use a different method of timekeeping during World War II, nor did we abandon the Gregorian calendar during the Persian Gulf War. Second, from Call to Arms(DS9) to What You Leave Behind(DS9), the Federation was at war with the Dominion, and they did not abandoned the stardate system.
Damm those military cutbacks!
If the Enterprise-C was lost 22 years prior to this episode, does this mean that, prior to this series, Starfleet went about 20 years without a flagship?
It came with the fanny pack
The Enterprise-D crewmen in the war timeline wear gray belts with shoulder straps. Are these really intended to make the uniforms look more "war-like?"
They’re exclusively reserved for resurrected crew members
Also, Crusher wears one of these belts on the away mission to investigate the Enterprise-C, but no one else does.
Troi, would’ve been there, but the post-traumatic stress disorder was too much for her. (Not her patients’, but the case SHE developed from having Guinan take away all her good "wise commentator on human behavior" scenes."
How can Wesley be on the Enterprise during the wartime timeline? Not only is he a minor, and has not even attended the Academy, much less graduated, but he shouldn’t even be on the ship! Remember, the only reason Wesley is on the ship in the normal timeline is because he’s a civilian family member of one of the crew. In the wartime timeline, Picard’s reaction to Guinan’s statement about families on the ship indicates that there aren’t any on the ship in the wartime timeline. Shouldn’t Wesley be with his great-grandmother, who by this episode, is still alive, as established in Sub Rosa? Even odder, Troi doesn’t seem to be on the ship. So a ship’s counsellor isn’t considered necessary during a time of war, when life aboard a starship can be stressful and traumatic, but a civilian teenager whose never set foot in the Academy is?
Sure it’s first class. You can tell by the leg room the bridge chairs have, the in-flight movie Picard is watching on his little viewer, and the fact the Jerry Seinfeld is sitting next to him analyzing their hot fudge sundaes
Yar tells Castillo in the beginning of Act 3that the Enterprise was the first Galaxy-class ship constructed by Starfleet. Apparently, the writer of this episode wasn’t told that ship classes are named after the first prototype of that class. The Enterprise-D is a Galaxy-class starship, so the first of the class was the U.S.S Galaxy, which has to date never been seen. (Sorry, Adam, but I don’t buy your excuse. There aren’t going to be any other versions put together and launced until a PROTOTYPE is tested over and over again and has all its bugs worked out.)
Or is this Yar’s singles bar way of saying, "Hey, Castillo, you make me hot!"?
As Guinan enters Ten Forward in Act 3, Yar is telling Castillo about the improved technology of the Enterprise-D. Specifically, she talks about their shield strength, and says that their heat dissipation rates are double that of the Enterprise-C. It sounds as if heat dissipation refers to the shields’ ability to reflect or redirect the heat generated by an enemy ship’s torpedo impacts or phasers. It would seem that one would want shields to dissipate such heat as quickly as possible, right? So one would want as small a dissipation rate as possible, and therefore, a ship 22 years newer than another would have a smaller heat dissipation rate, right? So didn’t Yar mean that the Enterprise-D’s shields’ heat dissipation rate is half of that of the Enterprise-C’s?
Well, "Enema-bulb Class" just didn’t have that "warrior" ring to it
When the Klingons attack the second time in Act 5, Wesley identifies the attacking ships as three K’Vort-class battle cruisers, but when we see them, they’re Birds of Prey. The battle cruisers are the larger ones with the enema bulb-shaped forward sections, first seen used by the Romulans in the original series episode The Enterprise Incident(TOS), and later, with more detailed hull panelwork in the first movie, ST The Motion Picture.
A time travel episode where a ship takes too much TIME to do something? What is this, the creators trying to be cutesy?
Why does it take so long for the Enterprise-C to reenter the rift at the end of the episode? After the last commercial break, the show resumes in Act 5, with the both Enterprises right by the rift! And yet, they wait for three Klingon ships to show up, and at one point, Data even says it will be 52 seconds before the Enterprise-C enters the rift! Shouldn’t it only take a few seconds?

So didn’t Yar mean that the Enterprise-D’s shields’ heat dissipation rate is half of that of the Enterprise-C’s?

No, the dissipation rate is twice that. In other words, it gets rid of heat twice as fast as the E-C (which is what you want).

Hmmm...possible. But this sounds like the possible beginning of another "eat your cake" argument.

Should the E-D's hd rate be twice that of the E-C, meaning it's twice as fast,

Or should it be half that of the E-C, because it dissipates heat in half the time?

Somehow, the latter just seems more right to me. Oh, well. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

By the way, I thought I made this nit, but it apparently wasn't in my nitpick document, so I don't know what happened to it. Maybe I realized it was false and deleted it:

Yar asks Guinan in this scene for standard TKL rations for her and Castillo. Guinan walks away, presumably to get them. Yar and Castillo then decide to leave before getting them, but when the camera cuts back to Guinan, she not only hasn't gotten them for them, she isn't even in the process of getting them. She's just standing there. Perhaps she really is unnerved by Tasha's presence.

Re Troi not being on the alt-Enterprise: the timeline is different. Who knows where she ended up? She may have not even have been born, since she's of two different species. In a war, her parents may never have met.

How can Wesley be on the Enterprise during the wartime timeline? Not only is he a minor, and has not even attended the Academy, much less graduated, but he shouldn’t even be on the ship! Remember, the only reason Wesley is on the ship in the normal timeline is because he’s a civilian family member of one of the crew.

Since this was durring season 3 Wes could have been 18. Also as you will recall he is not wearing his Acting Ensign uniform but a regulation Starfleet uniform. Since he is smart and starfleet is no-doubt taking more people than because so many are dieing in the war he could have gotten into the acadmey back durring comming of age's time and been on some sort of accelerated program, after all durring war do you realy want to have people who can fly starships to be spending a bunch of time on classes like Creative Writing and the like.

Re: Rates and stuff

I would think that ScottN's explanation would be reasonable. Rate usually is determined by "amount done" divided by "time taken to do it". Just like speed (rate of movement) is "amount moved" over "time taken." Thus rate varies inversely to time.

In this case it would be "heat dissipated" divided by "time taken for dissipation". The less time taken, the fast the rate.

I agree with ScottN. I don't think it's a matter of perspective, since 'dissipation' is a term widely used in engineering.

Here in the 21st century, heat dissipation is measured in Watts. That's energy per second.

You want the shields to get rid of unwanted energy as quickly as possible. Hence you want a big dissipation. It helps if you think of dissipation as a limit; try to dissipate more than the limit and you'll burn up. So you want a big limit.

I look at it like this. Energy hits the shields. A portion of the energy is reflected, and the rest is absorbed by the shields. The energy which is absorbed has to be dissipated, otherwise the Enterprise would burn up.

You want a low absorption coefficient, to minimise the energy collected by the shields, and a high maximum dissipation rate so that the energy you couldn't help absorbing doesn't burn you up.

Hope this makes sense.

LUIGI NOVI: There aren't going to be any other versions put together and launched until a PROTOTYPE is tested over and over again and has all it's bugs worked out

This may be true in peacetime but if you are facing defeat within a reasonable amount of time you really don't have the luxury of using weeks and months for testruns. If a concept looks workable you would rush it through in order to get some ships out of the factories and onto the frontline.

In the later stages of WWII the germans were facing similar conditions. And some of their tankmodels were but in production before the bugs were located. The result were that many motors was to weak for the tank, the transmission was overloaded etc.

Of course there is a difference between starships and tanks but the situation is similar.

So it is possible that the alt-Galaxy and the alt-Enterprise were laid down at the same time but the alt-E just was finished first, simply because the admirals said: Yeah it's a great design, now make it into ships right now!

Alternate Tasha claims the Enterprise-D is the first Galaxy-class warship to be built. If that were true, shouldn't it be called "Enterprise-class" then? Rene

I believe that the retro-fit of the Constitution Class Starship given to the Enterprise in TMP, and later to her sister ships, including the one that would later be renamed the Enterprise-A, was so extensive that the class was renamed the Enterprise Class

The Alt-USS Galaxy could have been laid down first but for whatever reason the "Big E" was finished and commissioned first. Its happened Adam

Espicaly durring time of war Brian

Sorry, Adam, but I don?t buy your excuse. Luigi

But that is exactly what happened with White Star's Olympic line. The first ship of the class actually launched was not the Olympic, but the Titanic. (Of course we all know about her maiden voyage.....)

The Enterprise class only exits in the FASA universe, which is considered non-canon by TPTB and a lot of people around here. Except me, I like FASA and use them for my Trek RPG.

Brian Fitzgerald: Wesley could have gotten into the acadmey back durring Coming of Age's time...

Luigi Novi: Wesley was only 14 during Coming of Age. The exam he took was an entrance exam, but that doesn't mean he would've entered at that time if he "won" it. (There are also other problems with that part of that episode's plot.) He would've had to already have accellerated past his high school years already. Only then can you enter such an Academy. You can't do this if you don't have your high school diploma, and you can't get your h.s. diploma simply because you've passed a college entrance exam. You can only enter the college if you've gotten your diploma first.

To ScottN, Out to Lunch and Sophie: I accept your explanations of that dissipation rate nit, and I've removed that nit from my nitpick document. (Yay!!)

Teral, it doesn't matter whether the bugs or out or not. You're missing my point. My point is that whatever ship is out first is "the first of her class," and therefore, and since the class names are derived from their first incarnations, then the alt. E-D would be an "Enterprise class," not a "Galaxy class."

TomM: I believe that the retro-fit of the Constitution Class Starship given to the Enterprise in TMP, and later to her sister ships, including the one that would later be renamed the Enterprise-A, was so extensive that the class was renamed the Enterprise Class

Luigi Novi: No, it wasn't. It's Constitution class, designated "Refit configuration." It's in the reference books. Those ships are not called "Enterprise class." The Excelsior-class Lakota from Paradise Lost(DS9), which was a refit variant like the Enterprise-B, was indeed referred to by O'Brien as an Excelsior class ship. Besides, what does this have to do with the alt. Enterprise?

Adam: The Alt-USS Galaxy could have been laid down first but for whatever reason the "Big E" was finished and commissioned first. It's happened.

Brian: Espicaly durring time of war

Luigi: Sorry, Adam, but I don't buy your excuse.

TomM: But that is exactly what happened with White Star's Olympic line. The first ship of the class actually launched was not the Olympic, but the Titanic.

Luigi Novi: Again, you're missing my point. I am not arguing about which incarnation of a ship's class is launched first. I am talking about what that class is designated. In Trek, the first ship of a class provides that class's name. The alt. Enterprise is a Galaxy class, as Tasha said, so the alt. Galaxy was the first one launched. If the Enterprise was first launched, then it's Enterprise class.

You say that the Titanic was the first of the Olympic line. Fine. Was it the standing policy to name ship's after the first one launched, and this was an exception? Or did the order of launching have no bearing on the line's name, and the naming was merely arbitrary? And if it was policy, was it English policy, White Star Line policy, international maritime policy, etc.?

We also don't know if Starfleet operates under the same policies as the White Star Line did. The simplest solution tends to be the correct one, barring evidence to the contrary. Since the first ship of a class names the class, my humble opinion is that this is a nit. To each his own.

I always thought that the class was named for the first ship whose keel (do they still use keels?) was layed first. Here my hypothetical situation. The alt-U.S.S. Galaxy's keel is layed first and they name the construction project and the class after her. She is half finished when the alt-Enterprise's keel is layed.
The Galaxy is layed out for the whole works, science labs, civilian quarters, etc.... Unfortunatly, before she is much further along, war breaks out. Now, the alt-Enterprise isn't as far along, say 10-Forward has been built, but, can be finished faster because they don't need to put in the hull sections for the labs, etc. and therefor they don't have to (for lack of a better term) run the wiring all throughout the ship. They just have to run it streight from the warp core to the weapons, the minimal crew quarters, and the bridge. Therefor, although the alt-Galaxy was further along and the class named for her, time and material restrains caused the alt-Enterprise to be finished first.

Luigi Novi: Wesley was only 14 during Coming of Age. The exam he took was an entrance exam, but that doesn't mean he would've entered at that time if he "won" it. (There are also other problems with that part of that episode's plot.) He would've had to already have accellerated past his high school years already. Only then can you enter such an Academy. You can't do this if you don't have your high school diploma, and you can't get your h.s. diploma simply because you've passed a college entrance exam. You can only enter the college if you've gotten your diploma first.

First off who says that you finsih High School at 18 in Trek's time. Also since he is smart he could be further along than others his age. As you point out he was taking an enterance exam, you don't usualy take enterance exams for college when you are a freshman in HS (which a 14 year old would be today) At the earlyest durring your Junior Year, also their are lots of people who take College classes while in HS and get HS and college credit for the same class.

Re: the class of the alt-E

Merat, you're theory sound fine to me.

My theory was a little different.

The alt-UFP is in big trouble. The war goes badly. They need better ships, with better weapons, shields etc. Request goes out to various groups of engineers throughout the alt-UFP to come up with a new starshipdesign that could help the alt-UFP turn the tide of war. Several different designs is presented to alt-Starfleet, including the Galaxy-project. The Galaxy-project is choosen, perhaps because it represents the best use of state-of-the-art technology, at least "on paper". There is no time for further testing, and the schematics goes out to the shipyards. Because of variations in supplies, manpower, sabotage etc. the shipyard building the alt-E finishes the ship before the one building the alt-Galaxy.

This way the class isn't named after the first ship, but after the original design-proposal, which in turn whas named by the engineers working on it.

But of course thats just my opinion.J

Another thing: how do you make those yellow "smileys".

Click on the "Formatting" link on left for the full details, but basically you just type \clipart and then inside "braces" -- {} -- you tell it which smiley to print.

Type ":" and then ")" right after it.

I knew some boards translated simple emoticons into smilies, but I didn't realize this was one of them.

Like many others, this is one of my favourite TNG episodes.

Most of my nits concern the Klingons and the battle sequences... those ships were Birds-of-Prey, not "battlecruisers". Also, in the final battle, the Enterprise D only fired one volley of torpedoes. Come on Riker and Picard - arm those photons!

Picard has a couple of great lines in this ep:

As battle is looming, he finishes an announcement to the crew (with that cool whistle noise that we don't hear again) with:
"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name ... Enterprise"

And, towards the end of the battle when the Klingon commander demands the surrender of the Enterprise, he "responds" (to himself anyway) with the classic line:
"That'll be the day"

>>>There aren't going to be any other versions put together and launched until a PROTOTYPE is tested over and over again and has all it's bugs worked out


In terms of having a physical "prototype" to test, Starfleet may not do this--at least not during a time of war. Even today, companies are relying much more heavily on computer simulations to work bugs out of automotive and aircraft designs before any prototypes are even built.
Given an additional several hundred years in computer and simulation advancements, it's entirely possible that the Galaxy Class ships were tested--at least to wartime satisfaction--without prototypes, then built on a mass scale to save costs and time.

Wesley was actually 15 during Coming Of Age, doesn't he say it will be his 16th birthday soon?

Hi - This is my first post to the message board, but I have been following your discussion
for a while. Earlier on the board, someone questioned why the alt-Enterprise-D would
still be a Galaxy Class vessel if it was the first vessel of its class in this timeline. By rights, they suggest it ought to be an Enterprise class vessel because it was launched before the
alt-U.S.S. Galaxy. TomM and Luigi Novi answer that the alt-Enterprise could still be a
Galaxy Class vessel. By way of analogy, they state that the Titanic was an “Olympic”
class vessel even though the Titanic was launched first. Unfortunately, this latter statement isn’t correct. White Star Line launched the Royal Mail Ship (RMS) Olympic in 1910, and she made her maiden voyage in June of 1911. In contrast, the RMS Titanic was launched on May 31, 1911 and made her ill-fated maiden voyage in April of 1912. So the Titanic (and her also-ill-fated sister-ship, the Britannic) were both Olympic class vessels. So your analogy doesn’t work, and the nit lives on (It’s a Nit to Remember)

Welcome aboard, Tim!


The original nit regarding the alt-Enterprise's class was indeed mine.

The Titanic analogy was Tom's, not mine.

Thanks for the input, and welcome to the board!

Hey Hey Hey. I mentioned the Galaxy class nit before you did :p

A ship class name is assigned long before the completion of the first ship and almost always before the laying of the first keel of the first ship. Usually a class name starts out with some sort of designation based on the type of ship being constructed or its size or number of guns or whatever (it's varied through history). Then, generally speaking, proper names are assigned according to the projected number of ships to be built. So the name assigned to the first projected ship becomes the name of the class. This will almost certainly be the first ship to have its keel laid and usually, but not always, the first ship to be built and launched. It is not unheard of, especially in wartime, for the second or even the third ship (the Enterprise was the 3rd ship according to the tech manual) to be completed first however. Why? The ships might be built in different yards for starters, so labour supply and labour difficulties might be an issue, as well of course the equipment available at that yard. One yard might be closer to the "front line" so it gets to repair more existing ships that have been damaged in battle. Even if they're in the same yard there might be fitting problems or more "bugs" to iron out on one ship, especially on earlier ships so they learn and not make the same mistake(s) on the later ones. Etc, etc, etc. In this case they might have dropped a lot of frivolties (sp?) from the later ships (such as an arboretum, the holodecks, nice crew quarters, etc) and replaced them with bunk rooms and cargo bays instead, allowing those ships to be completed sooner.

I'll finish with an example from our own history regarding class names. During WWII the Admiralty (Royal Navy) had plans to build a 3-ship class of aircraft carriers. These would have been as big as the American Midway class carriers. The class was called the Gibraltar class and the names Gibraltar, Malta and New Zealand were assigned yet none were ever completed, if even begun. Similarly, the Lion class of 16" gun battleships were never completed either, though some of the components were used to build Britain's last battleship, HMS Vanguard.

So I hope all that clears up this alleged nit.

Sorry, Rene. I forgot about that. Tim also seemed to be responding to the exchange between Tom, Merat, Teral and myself on the subject, and may have also skimmed over your earlier note.

Thanks for all the info, Admiral (or should I call you "sir"? ), but even if there is an internal explanation (and many of the ones offered here make sense) the external explanation is that the writer probably didn't know that class names are derived by its first incarnation.

Moreover, no offense, but I personally didn't consider the analogy to 20th century procedures the most convincing, because there's no indication that Starfleet, much less its alternate timeline counterpart, uses every procedure and tradition that 20th century navies did. The "we do it this way so it's possible they do it that way too" theory would suggest that it's possible, but not conclusive.

I know you forgot. That's okay. Just pointint it out

When Worf and Guinan are talking about 'companionship' I thought Worf said, "Earth females are too fragile." If I did hear right then Worf is really cutting down on his options, since some of the Human females, like Dr. Crusher, were born on other worlds.

Have you ever noticed that the majority of women on the Enterprise seem to be human? Offhand I can only think of five nonhuman crewmembers. Troi is half Human, half Betazoid. Guinan is El Aurian. Dr. Selar is Vulcan. Ensigns Ro and Sito are Bajoran. We've seen a number a male alien crewmembers walking around the ship, but it seems that there are very few alien women crewmembers. (There was an alien female in Future Imperfect, but that was a fantasy.)

What the hell happened to the Organians? In Classic Trek the Organians wouldn't let the Federation and the Klingons have a war and they predicted a time of peace and alliance. Did they realize that this was an alternate timeline and decide not to interfere, because they knew Picard would make the right decision? Or is Classic Trek set in a parallel universe where the Klingons looked more human and don't give a rip about honor?
(Personally, I like the idea that Classic Trek is a parrallel universe, but Trials & Tribble-ations would seem to contradict that.)

Yar says that she has been on the Enterprise for four years, but this is only the third season of the show. Was the Warship Enterprise launched a year earlier than the Starship Enterprise?

Yar tells Castillo that the Enterprise-D deflectors are twice that of the Enterprise-C, and then she says, "So we can stay in a firefight... a lot longer." Well, since the deflectors are twice as good doesn't that mean they could stay in a firefight twice as long?

Yar and Castillo leave Ten-Forward, and don't eat their TKLs, because the Senior staff was called to the Bridge, but only Yar was in the meeting. Why didn't Castillo stay to eat? (Or did he walk Yar to the Turbolift and then go back to Ten-Forward?)

How exactly did Captain Garret get that wicked looking piece of shrapnel in the middle of her forehead? The explosion was off to her right and I don't think shrapnel makes 90° turns in mid air. It is possible that she could have been impaled when she was thrown out of her chair, but there are two problems with that. One, when they are cleaning up the damage on the Bridge, why leave any pieces of shrapnel lying around? Two, when people fall they usually try to break their fall by putting their hands in front of them. So was this just a really long piece of shrapnel that impaled her as she tried to break her fall, or was some member of the crew hoping for a promotion and stabbed her?

The Klingon shields have an odd way of operating. When a phaser or photon torpedo hits the shield, we see an oval graphic around the ship, but when the one Bird of Prey blows up and another one flies through the debris cloud, we see no evidence of a shield whatsoever. Wouldn't flying through the debris of an exploded ship be really hard on the hull? (It would almost certainly ruin the paint job.)

Another possibility for Yar having two deaths is that it wasn't really an alternate timeline, but a parallel universe.

Yar says that she has been on the Enterprise for four years, but this is only the third season of the show. Was the Warship Enterprise launched a year earlier than the Starship Enterprise?

This was a little over half way through season 3 so perhaps she was rounding.

Yar tells Castillo that the Enterprise-D deflectors are twice that of the Enterprise-C, and then she says, "So we can stay in a firefight... a lot longer." Well, since the deflectors are twice as good doesn't that mean they could stay in a firefight twice as long?

In the same time period weapons have improved as well, although apparently phasers are not yet twice as strong as Ent C's phasers.

Rounding would make it three years, not four.

The Tech Manual seems to imply that naval traditions are very well alive in the future, so I would argue that the 20th century (and earlier) traditions are still valid. Moreover, the tradition of class names is such a useful one that there really seems to be little point in altering it.

The Enterprise being launched earlier is perfectly plausible given that Starfleet would be rushing to get out more ships.


But yes Luigi, I will admit that the writers probably did screw up in this case, even though it can be explained away (unlike many others)...

Re: ship class

Maybe there was already an Enterprise-class, so they named it after the second ship they made, the Galaxy. J

Re: How long has the Enterprise been out there?

It is quite possible that since the war is going so badly, the warship Enterprise was rushed out of production without things like stellar cartography or the science labs, so it launched a year earlier, so Yar was rounding from 3 and a half years instead of 2 and a half.

Re: Why is Wesley on the ship?

Much as I don't want him there, there is a possibility. Remember, in DS9, Nog was let out of the Academy to serve with Sisko and the crew after a year. Wesley, being such a supergenius and all, could have been let out of the Academy after a year to serve with his mother and that crew. It's the same situation: the war is going badly and they need everyone they can get.

Re: Yar's second death

I doubt there's any more confusion about this, but if there is, then it is easily explained away. In the happy universe, Yar died, everyone was sad. In the war universe, there was no opportunity for her to die. There were 2 Tasha Yars, though one of them was created when the Enterprise-C went through the anomaly.

This is Amazing, no one as of yet has found this one, this one is the one Nit that you stand in front of the Mirror, squeeze so hard but to no avail. The one Nit that people stare at you for, the one Big Nit that girls laugh at you for. You see the Ctl-Alt-Dlte timeline still exists, LtCmdr La Forge is still wearing his cool new NON United Nations, oh sorrry I mean UFP peacekeeper outfit, at the end of the episode when he is trying to have a beer. Look at his sleeve, it has that black Flying Delta thing, on it.

Phil mentioned that already.

Yeah...check out the 'Yesterday's Enterprise' entry in the original NextGen Guide.

Great buildup, though.

No He did not, I have the TNG Guide (c) 1993, is there an update I am missing? I am Looking at the Chapter Right now, nowhere here does he say anything about the uniform, under "Changed Premises" He talks about Worf and Guinan, under "Plot Oversights" he Talks about Crew Promotions, and Picard's Meeting Locations and Under "Equipment Oddities" He talks about, Crushers Communicator, and Flashlights, nowhere does he say a thing about the uniform.

Try the 2nd volums, because it is in there (it was one of the most submitted nits apparently).

Sorry about that, Anonymous. Shoulda checked myself before directing you.

Putting aside the fact that Tasha liked Castillo enough to go back in time with him, her reasoning for going back to make up for an alternate-universe wasted death is crazy. Just because Guinan tells her what she feels is what really happened to Tasha shouldn't be enough for her to throw her life away, considering that she should have a lifetime of memories, and not be willing to throw it all away. Hasn't she met any nice men from her decade? Really, if some alien told me, "Will, in an alternate universe your counterpart died a senseless death by getting shot by a bank robber", I would say, "Poor Alternate-Will. Wrong place at the wrong time. Anyways, what's for supper?" This Tasha could just as easily have died a valiant death aboard the Enterprise-D, or even (had the war gotten better for the Federation) been promoted and given a command of her own, some day. Wouldn't this make up for her counter-part's senseless death?
Castillo's comments about the Enterprise-C crew never seeing their families again is also not right. Sure, 22 years have passed, but let's do some math. Let's say Castillo is 30, his parents are 60, and his sister is 27, and his nephew is 7. 22 years latter, his parents are just 82, and his sister just 49, and his nephew 29. What's the problem here? 82 shouldn't be a problem, as in Trek universe humans have a longer lifespan than we do in the 21st century, so his 82-year old parents could live over 20 more years, and his other family members have lots more time.
Granted, Enterprise-C appeared in a war-torn Federation, but surely the families of E-C's crew are spread out amongst Earth and many of her colonies.

i think you missed something will if alternate Yar had stayed behind when the timeline we know was restored she would have been erased from exsistent! she would have had no change to "die heroicly" meet castile later or anything else.

Right. Will, you refer to the other timeline Guinan has knowledge of as an "alternate" one, but the episode--and Picard--make clear that it is the correct one, and that they're going to restore it.

Oh, yea, I know the one we watch is the real one, but I'm just saying that only on Guinan's word is everyone told that this war-torn reality is the wrong one. Everyone living in it would have a lifetime of memories, and as such I, personally, would find it very hard to just chuck it all, and die in a blaze of glory.
Omnidragon; Tasha could choose between dying heroically and possibly painfully and violently on the Enterprise-C, or simply pop out, possibly painlessly. Me, personally, I'd go out like a light bulb, considering how much even a paper cut bugs me!
Tasha's also running away from a war with the Klingons to take on the Romulans from 22 years previously. Wouldn't she want to see this Klingon war through to the end, and get some manner of revenge against them for destroying her Federation? I guess not.
Just analyzing this show, guys; it's one of my favorites from the five series, so I hope I'm not sounding too critical.

Will: Oh, yea, I know the one we watch is the real one, but I'm just saying that only on Guinan's word is everyone told that this war-torn reality is the wrong one.
Luigi Novi: Well, not really. Remember that these guys see a ship heretofore thought lost two decades ago emerging from a rift in time, which while not proving Guinan correct, certainly corroborates or is consistent with it. Once you've established that someone has travelled back in time, believing in an alternate timeline is that much easier, especially when it comes from someone the crew trusts like Guinan.

You make a good point, though, Will, and the reason this does work is because of what Picard tells Garrett about the inevitability of losing the war and surrendering the Klingons. Now, if the Feds were experiencing peace and prosperity in this different timeline, now THAT would be a source of much greater conflict in the "do we send the E-C back or not" question.

At the episode's end, Picard tells Wesley to "set in a course of Archer IV."
Is this planet named for Jonathan Archer?

Hi I'm new here, but I wanted to ask if anyone had ever noticed that Geordi is wearing the wrong uniform at the end of the episode when Guinan asks him about Tasha?

He is wearing the alternate Starfleet uniform.

Just wondering.

If anyone else noticed that, please let me know at arielcastromayor@hotmail.com

Nice talking to you all!
Ariel

Never mind about my last message...

I have the original 'Picker's Guide and it didn't have it in it. I have been saving that one for years since the first issue.

I just noticed the other entries regarding that same point.

Thanks.

Welcom pi!

3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971

Welcome aboard, pi. And btw, Volume II of the NextGen Guide does have that nit, pi. It's the third and last one listed under Continuity and Production Problems.

Ditto on the welcome, pi/Ariel. A good nit is a good nit, no matter how many times it's been mentioned.

And hey, don't worry about having to post your email address - just hang around the boards for awhile and you're sure to find answers to all sorts of fun questions...

Hi there Pi. Mmmmmm.... pie [drools]
Only joking..... [SLAP!] Ow!

Anyway.... if there was ever a need to do a Special Edition of TNG (like the way they *did* Star Wars), maybe they could airbrush out this nit, which would be a shame....

If I were Picard, I'd know IMMEDIATELY something was missing from the Enterprise-D...How?
Troi is nowhere to be seen on the alt Enterprise-D. I mean, how can one miss a heavenly body like THAT? (Wiping drool)

Ya know what'd make this episode REALLY REALY interesting? WORF commanding of one of the Klingon ships! WHOA!

If I were Picard, I'd know IMMEDIATELY something was missing from the Enterprise-D...How?
Troi is nowhere to be seen on the alt Enterprise-D. I mean, how can one miss a heavenly body like THAT? (Wiping drool)

I am beginning to notice a trend in Mr. Lang's posts.

Nah, Kail. Can't see any particular trend myself.

I don't know if anyone mentioned this above (I can't be bothered to read the stuff before, it gives me a headache just thinking about temporal paradoxes) but I'm wondering: what exactly was going on in the ORIGINAL (i.e. the one we know and love) timeline while this altered present was being played out, assuming that the theory of concurrent parallel universes is true? When we rejoined our heroes in their proper places (with the possible exception of Geordi ) at the end of the episode we see Worf report that something came through the rift then left again. Did much time pass between the start of the episode and the end in the ORIGINAL timeline (i.e. as someone such as our own Lieutenant Worf perceived it), or were Picard and Worf standing on the Bridge all this time, waiting for something to happen? I can just imagine Picard's log entry for that episode: "Captain's Log, supplemental: Found a strange temporal anomaly today. Watched it for a few hours, something came out then went back in again. Guinan's acting a little strange, but otherwise not much else happened today."

Another thing which I think I mentioned elsewhere: in Redemption part 1, Guinan told Worf that she bet Picard that she could make Worf laugh before he became a Lieutenant Commander. Did I or did I not see Guinan make Worf laugh at the start of this episode when the two were discussing Worf's ideas of companionship? (Or at least chuckle.)

My interpretation is that in the Original timeline* something started to come through the rift then, went back. As far as Picard & the rest were concerned, the time between the episode's opening scene and closing scenes was the passage of a few seconds.

* Not an accurate way to describe it, I think, but my attempt to explain would, no doubt, give you a headache.

At the end, Guinan asks Geordi about Tasha Yar.

How could he? She (presumably) died on the Ent-C and therefore never came aboard the Ent-D.
(Temporal anomolies give me migranes)

John, I would expect Guinan to have heard her mentioned at least in passing by crewmembers while in 10-Forward.