This is Rene Echavarria`s first episode. He later went on to write the DS9 episodes "The Begotten", "Children Of Time" and "Crysalis". That seems about right.

Oh, and the TNG episodes "I, Borg" and "Lower Decks" amongst others. A pattern?

I just noticed something interesting - Lal really resembles Data. I mean the actress resembles Brent Spiner. When they're framed face-to-face in their last scene together, their profiles are notably similar. I think this is great casting... it subtly helps underline the fact that this really is his daughter.

The set builders borrowed that door from a sitcom
Wesley tells Geordi and Troi in the teaser that Data’s kept the lab locked at all times. So why, when the three of them showed up too early for Data, was the door unlocked?
The agony of de feet
After Geordi, Wesley and Troi arrive too early at the lab in the teaser, Data closes the door, and puts Lal’s right foot on her ankle, but doesn’t actually stick it all the way in. He basically hooks it on quite loosely before putting the ankle back on the platform. Nonetheless, when he tests the foot by pressing a few buttons on his console, in the next shot of it (the one where it’s actually actor John Leonard Crowfoot’s foot), it works fine!
It must be part of her "Shaq at the free-throw line subroutine"
Presumably, Lal is programmed with encyclopedic reference sources, much like Data. She can visually identify race and gender, and provide sophisticated definitions of words like "home" and "painting." So what’s with the gaps in her knowledge? And why are her reflexes and coordination less than perfect? Was Data like this when he was first activated? Human coordination, motor skills and reflexes are gained through the sharpening of those skills over time. Artificial machines, on the other hand, can simply be programmed to have these abilities from the beginning. The cameras mounted on news helicopters, for example, use gyroscopes to stabilize their movement, and provide a steady picture. Even those used in motion picture and still cameras have similar devices. Missiles can be self-guided with lasers, radar, sonar, etc., and motion detectors can sense precisely where an object is. For Lal to drop a ball when it’s tossed to her makes no sense.
I could just imagine Picard as the admiral boards the ship: "Admiral! We were waiting for you! What took you so long?"
After Admiral Haftel contacts Picard a second time and orders him to hold position, the show cuts to a commercial. When the show resumes, Picard, in voice-over, says that they are holding position. But the Enterprise isn’t holding position, it’s moving! There is no planetary body are station that the Enterprise could be orbiting. I guess Picard really is trying to delay the Admiral’s arrival, and possible taking of Lal into custody.

If Data did a transfer of his mind to Lal's mind, then why does Lal ask for the reason for external drapings? In Inheritance it was explained that Data had a modesty subroutine to make him wear clothes. Why isn't this subroutine in Lal's programming? For that matter, when Lal is pestering Data with questions, why aren't the answers already in her memory?

When Lal is choosing a form, one of the choices is an Andorian female, with very big hair, which brings up the question, do Andorian women have very big skulls or very long antennae? (It appears that the makeup people just attached the antennae to the top of the wig.)

Why is Data teaching Lal to eat and drink? Data doesn't need to eat and apparently he cannot taste, so why not put off learning this activity?

Several episodes have commented on Data not being able to taste, but in this episode it is revealed that he can smell. I'm not a doctor, but aren't the sense of taste and smell related? If Data can appreciate the scent of a flower, then he could make a judgment on the flavor of the drink Guinan served him in a later episode.

Data tells Lal that she is becoming sentient and several other comments imply that Lal is not yet a sentient being, at least as far as halfway through the show. Did I miss something, or has the definition of sentience changed by the 24th century? I just assumed that sentience was the ability to think, ask questions and make decisions, things which Lal has already done. I don't remember Bruce Maddux's definition of sentience in Measure Of A Man, but I believe two of the three criteria were 'self-awareness' and 'recognition of one's surroundings.' Lal demonstrated recognition of one's surroundings at the beginning when asking Data the reason for external drapings, and self-awareness when identifying itself as gender neuter and deciding on what it's permanent appearance would be.

While it is funny when Lal says, "He is biting that female.", the scene as filmed has a problem. From both Lal's and the camera's viewpoint we see the back of the male and the front of the female, (Quick, without looking it up, what is the sex of the director?) and what Lal would have seen is what we the viewers saw, the woman opening her mouth and 'biting' the man.

Was I the only one who thought Riker acted a little too cowardly when Data found him and Lal kissing?
(Personally, I think the director didn't really understand Riker's character. I believe it was directed by some guy named Jonathan Frakes. ;-)

In Datalore when Dr. Soong is first mentioned, the reaction and dialogue implied an eccentric scientist with a mad dream to create Asimov's positronic brain, but in this episode Starfleet's opinion seems to be that Soong was a genius. Too bad Starfleet didn't realize what a gold mine he was when they had the chance to fund his research.

Would Data considering changing Lal's name once she picked her appearance? If I recall correctly, 'Lal' means 'beloved'. What kind of name is that for a Klingon warrior? What if it means something rude in Andorian?

why are her reflexes and coordination less than perfect? Artificial machines can simply be programmed to have these abilities from the beginning.

We've tried programming machines with skills. The trouble is, they may be good at calculating the nth root of pi or simulating an integrated circuit, but they're rubbish at performing simple human actions like catching a ball or recognising a face.

We are discovering that it is more effective to create machines which have no skills, but which can learn from experience. Then we let them teach themselves. One type of machine which does this is called a neural net, which is exactly what Data and Lal have. In this case, the creators extrapolated logically from 20th century artificial intelligent research.

KAM: Several episodes have commented on Data not being able to taste...

Luigi Novi: No, they didn't. What Data said in those episodes (Deja Q and Hero Worship) was that he doesn't have a sense of aesthetics related to taste (i.e.: "This stuff tastes great!" or "This stuff tastes like goat dung squeezed through a Klingon's jock strap!"), presumably because "tastes good" and "tastes bad" are aspects of emotion. He can taste a food and tell exactly what's in it, as he did in (I believe) In Theory, and during the same scene (I think) in Hero Worship.

KAM: If Data can appreciate the scent of a flower, then he could make a judgment on the flavor of the drink Guinan served him in a later episode.

Luigi Novi: No said he "appreciated" it. That might be viewed as an emotional reaction.

KAM: I don't remember Bruce Maddux's definition of sentience in Measure Of A Man...

Luigi Novi: Intelligence, consciousness and self-awareness.

<FONT COLOR="ff0000">Luigi Novi: why are her reflexes and coordination less than perfect? Artificial machines can simply be programmed to have these abilities from the beginning.

Sophie Hawksworth: We've tried programming machines with skills. The trouble is, they may be good at calculating the nth root of pi or simulating an integrated circuit, but they're rubbish at performing simple human actions like catching a ball or recognising a face.

We are discovering that it is more effective to create machines which have no skills, but which can learn from experience. Then we let them teach themselves. One type of machine which does this is called a neural net, which is exactly what Data and Lal have. In this case, the creators extrapolated logically from 20th century artificial intelligent research. </FONT>

Luigi Novi: Hmmm...maybe you're right.

Re: Data and taste.

Didn't he react to the awful taste of something in "Generations", once he got his emotion chip?

Why do Data need to show Lal to blink with her eyes? I thought Soong-type robots blinking was controlled by an mathematical equation.

Why didn't Troi page Data the moment she noticed that there was something wrong with Lal (when she senced that she was afraid)?

Why is Troi introduced to Lal as Counselor Deanna Troi and Geordi is only introduced as Geordi LaForge? Shouldn't that be Chief Engineer Georgi LaForge?

Lal is programmed with the recepies for 1400 different drinks, yet Data has to show her what to use a chair for. Funny.

Galor IV. Just wondering: Is that a system the Federation conquered from the Cardassians? Or is it just coincidence that it bears the same name as the shipclass that forms the mainstay of the Cardassian Guard?

I really like the scene in Picards readyroom when Picard and Data first discuss Lal. Espicially Picards reaction to the whole "parenting"-discussion (you know, when he rest his face in his hands). LOL

Seeing what happened to Data in "Measure of a Man", HOW could Data forget it? He SHOULD HAVE KNOWN Starfleet would come and try and make some kind of on-the-spot investigation and act on that investigation.

I beleive this episode is the first one directed by Jonathan Frakes.

JAL: I beleive this episode is the first one directed by Jonathan Frakes.

That it is, John A, and a good job he did too. Incidentally, look out, in later episodes directed by other cast members, for this: the character played by the episode's director, as well as appearing in fewer scenes in general (with some exceptions notably DS9's "Far Beyond the Stars"), seems a little more free, relaxed, and less in character in these episodes. Example here: the scene where Lal comes onto Riker in Ten-Forward.

It's been a while...but after seeing this episode on TNN recently, maybe this is a nit. Haftel refers to only 2 Soon-type androids in existence. I'm he's referring to Data and Lal. But what about Lore? Where is he at this point? He's still around isn't he?

I think the general concensus at the time was that Lore was not operational due to being beamed into space. Clearly the resistance of Soong-types to the harshest elements was extremely underestimated.

He was still around, but no one knew he was alive.

As the time, I assumed that in "Datalore", Lore was beamed out 'energy only' like Picard in "Lonely Among Us" and like the evil entity in TOS:"Wolf in the Fold", and that Lore therefore no longer existed.

That assumption was backed up by the fact that they never tried to retrieve Lore's body.

The creators didn't actually say so, but they allowed us to believe it.

After Data attaches Lal's foot in the lab, Lal's toes move...like she was flexing them. Was Lal turned on at this point? If so, wouldn't attaching an electronic component to another electronic component create an electrical discharge resulting in a shock? (I was always told to unplug or switch off an electronic component before adding another electronic component)

First of all, a shock or short-circuit doesn't always occur. Second, one can surmise that three hundred years in the future, the technology to prevent that sort of discharge has been perfected (except, of course, the bridge consoles during an attack ).

Hallie Todd (Lal), after playing a daughter here, is best known for playing a mother--Lizzie's mom on "Lizzie McGuire."

Oh is that HER?

Wouldn't have known...

In the holodeck scene, when Lal chooses her/his/its outlook poor Troi falls asleep. This is funny, she has to sit on the blank holodeck floor. Isn't that humiliating? Why can't she have a chair or bench replicated? It's the HOLODECK! Instead she has to sit on the floor, sleeping. She doesn't look too happy when Data wakes her.

Maybe Data didnt authorize anyone else to change the program when he created it. Either that or Deanna was too polite to make such a request.

Or the creators wanted to show Deanna on the floor for whatever perverted reason. ;)

Perhaps she got tired of standing around, sat down and accedentally fell asleep. (In short, she didn't think of that solution untill she woke up.)

true there is that idea, but there again though why didnt she have the computer draw up an easy chair or somethign for her to sit on. Why sit on the floor when you have the handy dandy can create anythign holodeck systems available to you.

I still say Data was beign a hog and not sharing control of his computer program is why poor deanna had to lay her head upon the floor.

Just a note: The death of Lal is a real tear-jerker.

Didn't Admiral Halftel hear JAG Phillipa Louvois' decision about Data in "Measure of a Man"? I mean, that law protects Lal as well...right? Or does Haftel wish to be forced into retirement early for violating Starfleet law?

Well, just like in this country in this day and age, the state can take a child away if it feels the parents aren't raising the child according to the way the state thinks is correct.

Also, Phillipa's ruling if I'm not mistaken was whether or not Data's life was his own. What actions Data was allowed to do wasn't the issue.

NOTE: In a lot of ways, this episode reminded me of "Requiem For Methuselah"

Like Rayna, Lal was an android who died after experiencing emotion)

Well, just like in this country in this day and age, the state can take a child away if it feels the parents aren't raising the child according to the way the state thinks is correct.

Yes, after a full court hearing. Not on the say-so of a single admiral.

regarding scottn's statement...

fortunately...

Frakes first and a very good outing. And he does give himself a very humorous scene. That ending, too, was very well played.

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quote:

John A. Lang: Seeing what happened to Data in "Measure of a Man", HOW could Data forget it? He SHOULD HAVE KNOWN Starfleet would come and try and make some kind of on-the-spot investigation and act on that investigation.

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quote:

MikeC: Hallie Todd (Lal), after playing a daughter here, is best known for playing a mother--Lizzie's mom on "Lizzie McGuire."

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Nine words: "When a man and a woman are in love....." which would have been this episode embarrassing and offensive to homosexuals.

In fact, I read that Whoops refused to say this line, and they changed it to "When TWO PEOPLE are in love....."

And I have to say, I totally approve!

It wasn't what the original people in charge wanted, but logic and intelligence won out in the end!

That's great, I mean, in the 24th Century, it's perfectly believable that LGBT people are accepted and not treated any differently than anybody else!

There is even an article on the Net about LGBT people in Trek (or not, as the case may seem). I read it, and it's really thought provoking.

So there you have it. My contribution to this thread, I think it's cool!