• The Best of Both Worlds, Part 2, Part 2 July 31 - 5:39 am

"Wolf 359", a battle site mentioned in this show, is also the title of an original "Outer Limits" episode.

It dealt with a miniature, speeded up world under observation by a scientist. Not sure what the connection is, except that the writer of TBOBW is probably a fan of the original OL.

Wolf 359 is an actual star. It might have been picked because of that episode, but it was probably used because of Wolf 359's proximity to Earth.

Wasn't there a Simpsons spoof of that OL episode?

the OL ep sounds lke a classic Theodore Sturgeon (I believe) story, "Macrocosmic God" which dealt with exactly that topic.

That's right, "Microcosmic God" is very similar in its basic idea, but very different in where it goes with the plot. Great story, I've read it many times!

Thanks for that info about Wolf 359, Nick.

Wolf 359 is only 8 ly away. Pretty close...

If you leave now, you'll get back around Noon, October 18, 2015. :-)

actually, at LIGHT speed it would take 8 years, so to make it in the year 2015 is a bit too fast for our standards. :)

Actually, Wolf 359 is 7.8 light-years away. So my date is correct.

Guinan explains to Riker in the ready room that he should try to get over Picard's loss, that she has already gotten over it. Of course she has. In "Time's Arrow" we see that Picard met Guinan when he went back to 19th century San Francisco. At the time of "Both Worlds," Picard has not yet gone back in time to meet her. (Of course, at the time of "Both Worlds," the creators hadn't come up with the idea for "Time's Arrow" yet... ;) In this episode, Guinan must know that Picard will be fine because, if not, she would have never met him. In that case, she'd suddenly no longer be on the Enterprise in the middle of the episode due to alternate timeline problems. Another similar problem occurs in "Yesterday's Enterprise," and I've posted a message there too about that one.

Well, at least this admiral isn’t corrupt, he’s just $TUPID
Admiral Hanson’s refusal to believe Picard would "assist" the Borg in the beginning of Act 1 is based on overt emotionalism and lack of professional objectivity. The crew knows what assimilation means, and what has been done to Picard. Why doesn’t someone chime up and explain this to Hanson? He’s not being realistic or reasonable. Picard is not assisting the Borg, but they do have access to all of his memories and knowledge of Starfleet.
Another "I have way too much time on my hands nit"
In storing episodes, I tape each episode first on a master tape, either with the commercials (when I’m away and have to program the VCR in advance), or with just the beginning and end of the commercials, and then edit them onto a permanent tape without the commercials. Doing this involves quite of bit of frame by framing, so that after the episode fades to black for a commercial, I can see where the first frame of the "we’ll be right back" show logo is. Doing this alerted me to a change in the way the logo is shown. For the entire first three seasons, ending with Best of Both Worlds part I, if you advance the tape frame by frame, the star field appears first, but beginning with this episode, the top of the "R" in Star and the bottom of the "T" in Trek appear before the star field.
Starfleet had the Nanites attend a Planned Parenthood seminar
Crusher tells Riker in Act 1 that she and Data came up with the idea of introducing a destructive strain of nanites into the Borg, but that unfortunately, it would take 2 or 3 weeks to implement. Why? In Evolution, Wesley left a container with just two nanites open overnight, and by morning, they had already begun to disable the ship’s systems, and that was by accident.
The Borg assimilated Charlton Heston
The Borg do not react to attackers unless they percieve them as a threat, as seen in the previous episode, and as stated in this one. So why do they fire on the shuttle that carries Data, Worf and the kidnapped Locutus at the end of Act 3? In what way is the shuttle a threat to them now that they’re retreating? If the Borg are trying to recapture at Locutus, why not put a tractor beam on it? Why fire at it?
Now I know what kind of holodeck programs Data likes to watch for fun!
In Act 4, after Locutus tells the crew he will remain on the Enterprise to speak for the Borg, Crusher, Data and Riker discuss the Borg subspace signals on the bridge, and Data mentions that they have observed Borg drones removing mechnanical parts from injured drones on "several" occasions. In fact, they’ve observed this on exactly one occasion, in Q Who.
Data and Riker must have passed a ouija board marker over the script
Riker asks during this scene if the signals can be blocked. Data points out that drones have known to remove key circuits from injured fellow Borg, adding, "no doubt separating them from the group consciousness." Riker than adds that the injured Borg self destruct, and Crusher conjectures that cutting the link might be fatal to Picard. First of all, on what basis does Data form the conclusion that the circuits that the Borg remove from injured fellow drones separate them from the group consciousness? There’s no proof of this. It seems that the writers simply wanted to establish this, and simply had Data magically come up with this notion out of thin air. Second, we know that the circuits in question do not necessarily have anything to do with drones’ subspace link to the Collective, and that cutting drones off from the Collective is not what causes them to self-destruct, because Hugh becomes separated from the Collective when the crew block the signals from him in I, Borg, and Seven of Nine is separated from the Borg at the end of Scorpion part II(VOY), and neither one of them dies.
Reminds me of that visual gag of a tall guy with long arms holding a shorter guy by his head while the short guy tries to punch the tall guy, even though he can’t reach
During the Enterprise-Borg battle in Act 5, the Borg try to lock onto the Enterprise with their tractor beam. Geordi soon notes that the shields have failed, and that the Borg have locked on. Riker then orders Wesley to lay in a collission course with the Borg cube. But how can they do this? The Borg has the Enterprise in a tractor beam. Doesn’t that mean it can’t move?
They’re not bandages. They contain Chia Pet seeds
At the end of the episode, Picard and Riker are in the ready room. Some time has obviously passed since Picard’s separation from the Collective, and he has bandages on his head were the cranial prosthetics were implanted. At first I thought this was a good way to show how massive the injuries that he suffered were. But now I’m wondering, with dermal regenerators, why are bandages even necessary?
I guess "the ship docked at the station closing shot" isn’t as dramatic as the "ship circling the planet closing" shot
At the end of the episode, right before Riker leaves Picard’s ready room, he tells him the course has been laid in for Station McKinley, and Picard tells him to make it so. First of all, Picard has bandages on his head, and Riker talks about the repair estimates that have been made for the Enterprise, so obviously, some time has passed since the destruction of the Borg cube, during which Picard was treated. Shouldn’t the Enterprise already be at the station? What have they been doing in orbit all this time? Where was the Enterprise when these estimates were being made? Wouldn’t they have been made at the station? When you have a problem with your car, you don’t ask the mechanic to make a house call. You bring the car to him, and then he makes the estimate.
They’re waiting for a parking space to open up at the station.
"You leaving?"
"Yeah, we’re leaving."
"Great!"
Second, if the course for the station has just now been laid in, and Picard is only now giving the go ahead, why does the shot of the ship right before this scene show it flying over the planet?
Riker’s just WAITING for Picard to kick the bucket!
Given that Starfleet has just lost tens of thousands of crewmen, and Riker and Shelby recieved field promotions to captain and commander respectively, how can they be demoted back to their original ranks? Isn’t Starfleet going to need good officers now? Shouldn’t they simply keep Riker as captain, stick him on his own ship whether he likes it or not, and be done with it?
Funny, I never thought of a starship captain as a temp job
And if not, then I should point out that Shelby still has three solid rank pips and Riker still has four in the final scene with Picard, after they have both have returned to their original ranks.

On page 254 of the NextGen Guide II, Phil is surprised that Saturn & the Borg cube have the sun's light coming at them from the right and assumes the cube is not heading toward Earth. Apparently Phil forgot that Saturn & Earth orbit the sun at different speeds. It is possible for Saturn and the Sun to be between the Earth and Wolf 359.

Wolf 359

Saturn Sun

Earth

(Best diagram I could make since we can't post pictures anymore)

However, now that we know the approximate locations of Earth, Saturn, The Sun & Wolf 359 it is easy to estimate when this takes place. (Assuming the Borg took a straight line course from Wolf 359 to Earth, of course.)
Using the Astronomy program Distant Suns 2.0 I figure this happened in early to mid-September 2361.
This date does conflict with the years given in the series. Possibly after one or more of those world wars someone miscalculated & came up with the wrong number, or, even less likely, Saturn's orbit has been speeded up a tad.

Also Jupitor does not occur in a straight line with the previous bodies, however since it was Jupitor Outpost 92 that was mentioned, I think we can assume that this is an outpost moving along Jupitor's orbital path instead of orbiting Jupitor itself. After all, why would Jupitor need 92 outposts orbiting it?

Now the question is, if you extended the, more or less, straight line from Earth to Wolf 359 further into the constellation of Leo, would you find a nebula like the one that the Enterprise hid in in Part I?

Warp travel may not always be in a straight line. Spatial anomalies and other phenomena may require ships to plot curved or indirect flight paths to certain systems and planets. Considerations such as variations in the density of our system's Oort cloud may have required the Borg to approach Earth from an angle rather than in a straight line from Wolf 359. All we really know is that the Borg entered the system from such an angle that it passed Saturn and a Jupiter orbital station on its way to Earth. (This does not even require an Earth-Saturn alignment since the Borg were not heading directly toward the sun.)

TNG season four takes place in 2367.

But is that 2367 according to the Gregorian calendar? Maybe someone revised the calendar between now & then?

The amazing thing is that TPTB came so close to being accurate. Since Saturn takes 29.5 years to orbit the other options were the 2330's & the 2390's.

I don't think they went back to the Julian calendar, KAM, and there's no evidence or anything to suggest a revision. The creators' intentions when establishing the year in The Neutral Zone(TNG), and maintaining that premise in Eye of the Needle(VOY) and Endgame(VOY) (as well as in stories referring to timespans between TOS events and TNG events, like Relics(TNG) and Generations) were quite clear. If the planets were not properly aligned, then it was simply a planetary alignment nit, not a calendar year nit.

This episode would've been a lot shorter if the brog had just used the transwarp conduit that opens right near Earth (see Endgame.)

I agree - even if the Borg do think in four dimensions. The trouble is, television executives can't think that way.

Heck, judging from the fact that spaceships always happen to be on about the same plane, they can't even think in 3 dimensions.

They seem to do so quite well when thinking about spheres. (Specifically, how putting a blonde chick with two nice ones on a ratings-starved show will help it.)

What are Wolf 359, Earth, Saturn and the Sun doing looking so cheerful when there's BORG around??!!

Well, it's not Planets & Stars that get assimilated, just people.

Tell that to the planet in ST:TMP!

I don't remember the Borg assimilating a planet in ST:TMP.

Is that in the longer Special Edition?

As Spock is traveling through V'ger's outer cloud he passes what appears to be an assimilated planet. Rodenberry once joked that it was the Borg homeworld, but later said that it really wasn't. Maybe it was Trantor or Coruscant?

Merat, Shatner & J&GRS picked that one up and ran with it. In "The Return", that world is identified as the Borg homeworld.

Yeah, I've read that one, but it's been a while....

This one gets me every time I watch part II - when Data and Worf leave on the shuttlecraft, they leave a shuttle bay and then they pass the stardrive section, which of course implies that they left the main shuttlebay in the separated saucer. No problem there. The problem is that their course appears to be straight, so the saucer has to be facing away from the Borg cube. Yet the external shots in the sequences immediately before and after the launch show the saucer more or less facing the cube... (it actually makes sense for the saucer to be facing away, as its photon torpedo launcher faces aft, but I digress).

On page 210 of the NextGen Guide, Phil wondered why the Borg don't use their superior power to race to Earth. The assumption of superior power is based on the belief that the Borg have traveled 7,000 light years in just over a year. However, in The Neutral Zone it was shown that the Borg had already traveled between Federation and Romulan territory. (Okay. Okay. It was deduced from later episodes.) The destruction of Federation and Romulan outposts must have happened shortly before the episode began. (If it didn't then the Federation and the Romulans are very slack in their security precautions. "What you mean you lost contact with the outposts, `Three or four months ago?' They're supposed to be keeping an eye on our enemy!") Therefore the Borg must have had at least one ship closer to the Federation than 7,000 light years. So once the Borg analyze the piece of the ship they took and compare it to the specifications of the outposts that the Borg `Scout' ship scooped up, they get a general idea of where the Federation is and dispatch their nearest ship to take the technology that allowed the Enterprise to travel 7,000 light years in the blink of an eye. Of course, if only one Borg vessel entered Federation space, where did it put the New Providence colonies, the USS Lalo and what did it do with all the people? The away team only found Picard's uniform and communicator, so apparently only Picard was assimilated. The alternative is, there had to be a second Borg vessel that transported that stuff back to Borg space. (It was hidden behind the Gassy Knebula.)

On page 253 of the NextGen Guide II, Phil wondered how the fleet can be rebuilt within a year when it took years just to build the Enterprise. Does he think the shipbuilders just sit around twiddling their thumbs, waiting for a ship to be destroyed so they can build a replacement? Obviously, they have to be at work building new ships in the event of a decommission or destruction, but also so they can send out more ships for exploration and possible defense. Not to mention experimental craft with improvements to various systems.

Hanson tells the Enterprise that they will have an armada of 40 ships at Wolf 359, 24 hours before the battle. Don't you think that would be more than enough time to evacuate the non-essential people from these ships, but no, as revealed in the DS9 episode Emissary civilians like Jennifer and Jake Sisko were on board waiting for the attack.

In the NextGen Guide II, Phil wondered why Wes doesn't call the Terran system the Solar system since our star is named Sol. Actually our sun doesn't have an official name. Sol is just a Latin word which means `sun,' like Terra is a Latin word which means `earth' and Luna is Latin name for the Moon. I believe it has been Science Fiction authors who popularized the use of Sol as the name of our sun, but it is not official. (Neither is Luna the official name of the Moon.)

Everyone else calls it Wolf three five nine, but when Data is telling about the battle beginning he calls it "Wolf three fifty-nine."

In the NextGen Guide II, Phil asks if the Borg shields are less powerful than Starfleet since the shuttle just flies right through it. Actually, they never refer to them as shields. In the episode they refer to it as an electro-magnetic field. (I know. I know. "A rose by any other name...," yadda, yadda, yadda.) The purpose of which, I believe, is simply to keep them from beaming people over to the Borg ship. (Although the rescue party beams off the shuttle back to the Enterprise, just before the shuttle is blown up, which, I believe, happens while the shuttle is still inside the field. Oops.)

They sedate Locutus and take him to Data's lab, but then they lower Locutus from the ceiling, why? It would seem to be easier to hook up Locutus in the room and if he is sedated then there is little worry of him trying to get away. So why did they lower him from the ceiling? Trying to get Picard to remember his birth perhaps?

So was the Defiant still under construction at this point?

In the NextGen Guide II, Phil wondered why Wes doesn't call the Terran system the Solar system since our star is named Sol. Actually our sun doesn't have an official name. Sol is just a Latin word which means `sun,' like Terra is a Latin word which means `earth' and Luna is Latin name for the Moon.

When part of a multi-planatary governemnt it would seem rather egotistical to call your star "the" sun or "the" solar system as though it is the most important one out of all planets and solar systems. Presumably they changed the name of the solar system.

However, I would suspect that the Vulcan word for 40 Eridani translates as "Sun", same for all other species (except for those from binary star systems).

KAM: On page 210 of the NextGen Guide, Phil wondered why the Borg don't use their superior power to race to Earth. The assumption of superior power is based on the belief that the Borg have traveled 7,000 light years in just over a year.

Luigi Novi: Well, Phil's argument for this is not something I'll delve into, (Supposedly, it'd take the Enterprise 2 and a half years to travel 7K ly, which means it can travel 3.5K ly a year, according to Q Who, but Voyager, at a maximum warp of 9.975, can only go a 1,000 ly a year, so this is already contradicted), but what about the Borg's transwarp?

At the time the Guide was written the only use of Borg Transwarp was in Decent & the implication was that it was a stationary conduit that ships entered & left.

But then Voyager's finale suggests the Borg have a transwarp hub with a tunnel that takes them directly to Earth. I wonder why the Borg didn't use it in Best of Both Worlds or First Contact (the movie, not the episode).

Still under construction? ;-)

It wasn't ready yet. It'll be ready on Tuesday.

"Wolf 359", a battle site mentioned in this show, is also the title of an original "Outer Limits" episode.

It dealt with a miniature, speeded up world under observation by a scientist. Not sure what the connection is, except that the writer of TBOBW is probably a fan of the original OL.

I'm currently reading the only Space: Above and Beyond novel that I know of, Demolition Winter, and one of the lines reads "Entering Wolf 359 Star System". I wondered if this was a nod to both ST:TNG and the Outer Limits. Admittedly I didn't know about the Outer Limits reference until revisiting this page.

Ok, I think I've figured out this shield/field situation.

For the sake of argument let's say, that shields are usually 2-dimensional like a wall. A field on the other hand is 3-dimensional like a sphere or cube.
Therefore the Borg electro-magnetic field extended outward from the Borg cube, unlike a shield which forms a specified distance from the ship. The field is thick enough that the Enterprise cannot beam someone from the ship to the cube, however the shuttle is able to get close enough to the cube so that they do not have as much of the field to beam through as the Enterprise did. This way they are able to beam off the shuttle onto the cube and off the cube back onto the shuttle because there is less electro-magnetic interference to beam through.

And I was wrong about Enterprise beaming them off the shuttle while still inside the field in my July 23rd post.

Luigi said, "In Act 4, after Locutus tells the crew he will remain on the Enterprise to speak for the Borg, Crusher, Data and Riker discuss the Borg subspace signals on the bridge, and Data mentions that they have observed Borg drones removing mechnanical parts from injured drones on "several" occasions. In fact, they’ve observed this on exactly one occasion, in Q Who."

Didn't they also "witness" it in part one? Didn't Worf kill one Borg with a phaser when Picard was kidnapped?

In the Next Gen Guide, the chief admires the new Battle Bridge used in this episode. It is actually the same set used for the bridge of the Enterprise-C in "Yesterday's Enterprise." I also believe that it was pressed into service as the bridge of the U.S.S. Bozeman in "Cause And Effect."

Yes it was also the bridge of the Enterprise in the Trek movies.

As Spock is traveling through V'ger's outer cloud he passes what appears to be an assimilated planet. Rodenberry once joked that it was the Borg homeworld, but later said that it really wasn't. Maybe it was Trantor or Coruscant?

Cybertron??

Unicron?

I found Picard's unseen surgery a little too unbelievable...I mean..Crusher removed EVERYTHING that was "Borg"?..including any internal alterations?

Why not?

GREAT SCENE: Picard/Locutus grabbing Data's arm and communicating with him. It shows that all is NOT lost regarding Picard.

NIT: When they show the events from Pt.1, we see Locutus (Picard) pale as a sheet and in a Borg outfit. However, when Locutus is lying down on the table, his flesh color is NORMAL and the Borg make it pale AGAIN! What happened and why?

Arrgh, matey. I got me hook from a-fightin' the Borg...
Picard's artificial arm is incredibly obviously longer than his unartificial one. Of course, during the assimilation scene, we see that it's simply an uber-glove.

Picard & Guinan.

In the "Ready Room", Guinan specifically says to Riker that her relationship with Picard is beyond friendship, beyond family.

Who says Picard ain't a "lady's man"?

So what, precisely, are those things that the Borg blast out of space at earth's "defense perimeter"? And, given the number of times nasty things have headed towards earth, would'nt any sane Starfleet Admiral have long ago said something like, "Look guys, let's build a REALLY BIG PHASER BANK, say, on the Lunar Surface. Because it doesn't have to travel, this can be big enough to take out anything that flies in one shot. Or, let's build a class of dedicated planetary defense ships, like the old civil war monitors, which don't need warp drive, and can be packed full of weaponry." I suppose the reply would be something like : "Nah, we'll just hope that a single Galaxy class can get here in time." By the way, given the number of times that the Enterprise (or other Galaxy class ships) have had seious battle problems with individual ships-Romulan, Klingon, Ferengi,Dominion, etc, it is clear that the Galaxy class, supposedly the Federation's best, are actually white elephants,outclassed and undergunned, although the nursury facilities are good.

Riker really is the captain now. When he gets up from his seat at one point, he does the Picard Manuver.

And, given the number of times nasty things have headed towards earth, would'nt any sane Starfleet Admiral have long ago said something like, "Look guys, let's build a REALLY BIG PHASER BANK, say, on the Lunar Surface. Because it doesn't have to travel, this can be big enough to take out anything that flies in one shot. - Anonymous

The problem with this scenario is lack of mobility. If I were an invading force, I would simply approach Earth from the opposite side.


Or, let's build a class of dedicated planetary defense ships, like the old civil war monitors, which don't need warp drive, and can be packed full of weaponry." I suppose the reply would be something like : "Nah, we'll just hope that a single Galaxy class can get here in time." - Anonymous

Earth is usually under the protection of Starfleet vessels (judging by the number of times the various Enterprises were called on to save the planet). Those vessels were sent to intercept the Borg long before they reached Earth's solar system. Unfortunately, the fleet was all but destroyed at Wolf 359.

If Guinan & Picard are so close (closer than family or friends) why wasn't SHE present to try and communicate to Locutus/Picard too? HUH?

Actually, my remark about the lunar surface was of course meant to be funny --any real planetary defense system would probably be orbital, as well as ground based, to cover all the approach angles. The point, however, was that no defense relies on only one kind of response, and that because starships must do many things --fly under warp, have holodecks and nursurys, etc., ships which don't have to do this, or ground/orbital weapons, are necessarily much more powerful than starship weaponry. Moreover, time and time agin in the series and in the movies, we are shown incidents, like the attack of the silicon entity, the kidnapping of the Trois from Betazed, or the attack by the Klingon cloaked ship on the peace conference, where starships were either too late or extremely lucky. You do not want to count on this. Anyway, the interesting thing about this episode is that there is actually a nod to this principle, albeit not a particularly illuminating one.

"And if not, then I should point out that Shelby still has three solid rank pips and Riker still has four in the final scene with Picard, after they have both have returned to their original ranks"

I assume Shelby kept her rank.

When Riker is speaking to Locutus from the Battle Bridge, note the computer displays in the background...they show that the Saucer Section is detached from the Stardrive section...the problem is: the Saucer Separation hasn't happened yet! The Saucer Separation happens after Riker says, "Take your best shot..." (E.S.P. Computers?)

Perhaps someone inputed the sequence into the computer (though having not initiated it yet), and that image is simply what comes up with the computer is awaiting the initiation command.

-The flashbacks to Picard's assimilation featured in First Contact show a drill piercing Picard's eye. Why is this necessary, given that Locutus doesn't get one of those ocular pieces? And why isn't that eye now all messed up? There must have been a new guy on the job at the time...

Drone #1: Hey, what are you doing?! Don't touch the drill! You're gonna put his eye out!

Drone #2: Oh, sorry!

It wasn't necessarily a flashback....It was a dream afterall.

In the beginning of Act 1, as Admiral Hanson starts his speech about meeting Picard for the first time, Hanson's communicator hangs in the 3:00 position, and looks as if it's about to fall off. After a shot of Riker, they shift back to Hanson, and his communicator is now right where it should be.

Anonymous: ...where starships were either too late or extremely lucky.

I heartily agree. For instance, if you ever read any of the Star Wars novels (Timothy Zahn's The Last Command comes to mind), there's mention that Coruscant--the capital of the New Republic, and the closest analog to Earth--has tremendous ground-to-space weaponry, ground-based and orbiting starfighter hangars, and massive orbital battlestations. DS9 had something similar (remember the orbital weapons platforms the Cardassians were building?). In contrast, all Earth has is three puny schooners that rocket out and are destroyed w/o firing a shot.

Yeah, it is kind of strange that Starfleet haven't put some more fixed defences around Earth and the Sol system after what's happened over the years...

2153: Earth attacked by Xindi probe; 7 million people killed
2271: Earth attacked by V'Ger; whole population could have been killed
2284: Earth attacked by Cetacean Probe; evidently at least some people were killed by the 'whalesong' effects
2364: Earth attacked by the Borg
2373: Earth attacked by the Borg AGAIN
2375: Earth attacked by the Breen, damaging Starfleet headquarters
2377: Earth nearly attacked by the Borg again
2379: Shinzon nearly manages to attack Earth with his Thalidomide radiation weapon.

So...shall we put up a few battle stations? Nah.

2XXX: Earth and the entire solar system destroyed.

I forgot to add: Some guy named Starl... and some debris from Vo--g--

What's 2XXX?

Sounds like a Mega Man date.

I assume he said 2XXX because he didn't know the exact date, as it wasn't provided in the episode. I would further clarify it as 28XX, as it happened in the 29th ecntury.

Dan Gunther: I assume he said 2XXX because he didn't know the exact date, as it wasn't provided in the episode.
Luigi Novi: No, but T'Pol said they found the Xindi weapon facility "several months" after Archer was infected with the parasites, and that when they found it, it had already been deployed. It is likely that Earth was destroyed, therefore, in late 2153 or early 2154. The only digit that Anonymous couldn't be certain of would the last one.

Dan Gunther: I would further clarify it as 28XX, as it happened in the 29th ecntury.
Luigi Novi: ????? No, it didn't. It happened in 2153 or 2154. That's the mid-22nd century.

Luigi, They were referring to the events of Future's End(VOY).

That seems an odd example to use, since Braxton alleged that it was Voyager that was responsible for it, which Janeway didn't accept at face value, and that it was a temporal explosion. This wouldn't seem to be the best example to use when making a case about Earth's defense systems.

I was referring to the events of Future's End(VOY). Also, my point wasn't who caused it, but that Earth was destroyed. which is kind of like being attacked.

Now its been brought to my attention that it is possible for me to be more accurate in my date giving; but I didn't feel like it so there.

No worries, Anonymous, I was just trying to alleviate Luigi's confusion.

Anonymous: Also, my point wasn't who caused it, but that Earth was destroyed. which is kind of like being attacked.
Luigi Novi: No, the latter is specific as to cause; the former is not. The former can be the result of the latter, but doesn't necessarily have to be, and as it pertains to the issue of defense systems, we don't know enough about Braxton's allegation to conclude that it was an attack. If it was Voyager, and if it was a temporal explosion, it might not have been an attack at all, but an accident.

So, anyway, it's probably not the best "Earth is attacked" example because Earth is basically destroyed whether it has multiple defenses or not. Hard to defend against those temporal accidents.

Funny, I never thought of a starship captain as a temp job
And if not, then I should point out that Shelby still has three solid rank pips and Riker still has four in the final scene with Picard, after they have both have returned to their original ranks.

Both Riker and Shelby only held field ranks. In the present US military, field ranks are usually awarded during war time. Someone who was say a Commander might be bumped up to the rank of Captain or possibly a Rear Admiral or even a Vice Admiral. The catch is, however, that the promotions are temporary, and sometimes, when the war or emergeny was over, that officer may be bumped back to his/her original rank, depending on the circumstances. That being the case, Starfleet could very well bump them both back down to there former ranks after the crisis was over. Its unlikely that they did though, given the role that both Riker and Shelby played in saving Earth. We don't know what happened to Shelby after this episode, so its possible her new rank was made permanent. As for Riker, my guess is that he probably wanted to continue serving under Picard, and opted for a voluntarily grade reduction like Phil suggested in his Nitpicker's book.

It's unfortunate he had to take grade reduction, after all, Captain Spock served as first officer to Captain Kirk in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier and Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

I agree. I stated on another board somewhere that that they could have let Riker serve under Picard with the rank of Captain, and possibly bump Picard up to the rank of Commodore or Fleet Captain. Picard certainly deserves a promotion for all his years of service to Starfleet. That could have solved everything.

At one point, Admiral Hansen chides Shelby for indicating that the Borg now have the knowledge and experience of Picard. Why does he do this? Didn't he see Locutus' message after the deflector power beam failed? (Locutus indicated that Picard's knowledge & experiences were now the Borg's?) Sure, Hansen regards Picard as a close friend and acknowledges his determination...but that's no excuse for ignoring Locutus' warning!

He doesn't childe her for saying that the Borg have Picard's knowledge and experience, he childes her for suggesting that Picard is "helping" them. I don't know. It wouldn't be the first time a Frenchman started on one side, flipped to the other when it looked like the better bet, then flipped back.

That's what I meant. I got mixed up.

I agree with John, as I indicated in the first nit in my 6.2.01. post.

LUIGI NOVI:

Admiral Hanson’s refusal to believe Picard would "assist" the Borg in the beginning of Act 1 is based on overt emotionalism and lack of professional objectivity. The crew knows what assimilation means, and what has been done to Picard. Why doesn’t someone chime up and explain this to Hanson? He’s not being realistic or reasonable. Picard is not assisting the Borg, but they do have access to all of his memories and knowledge of Starfleet.

When I watched this scene just now, I got the opposite impression. Hanson knows that Picard has been assimilated and knows exactly what it means; he is objecting to Shelby's use of the word assist, which implies willfull cooperation. Picard is not assisting the Borg; the Borg are using him. I could hear it in the way he delivered the line, because he puts emphasis on the word assist: "Picard would never assist the Borg. He is a casualty of war." (loosely quoted)


Anyways, that's what I got out of it. YMMV.

Oh wow, I didn't realize the last few posts had been about this exact topic.

Good point, Mike.

Hanson knows that Picard would never willing assist the Borg. And Picard even told the Borg this in part 1 before they assimalted him. "I will resist you with my lost ounce of strenth" (loose quote).

Dear speaker, I am curious as to the planets of wolf 359 and their momentum ratio's compared to the human peptidases. I need to know why the photograpy of the displays of galactic orbits do not match the counter clockwise direction of earths rotation to the sun and the moons convergences limits absolute values. would conservation of energy reveal a smooth directrix for all three orbit tangents?

Well, first you have to frobnatz the gizmowhacker to figure ANYTHING out....

well, first reason is because its Windows...

Has anyone ever wondered what all ships were destroyed at the battle of Wolf 359? Sure, a few are mentioned (the Kyushu, the Melbourne) but check out these sites that give some very interesting info on them, their names and classes:

Ex Astris Scientia

And three from TrekMania:

Screencap Index

Screencaps Analysis

Wolf 359 Close Up.

There used to be a board around here called Wolf 359 & The 40 Ships, but it seems to have been deleted.

And please use newurl, not url when creating links. It is such a pain to get trapped in frames like that.

Really, KAM? I was unaware of that. What browser do you use? I mostly use Netscape 7.2, though I've also got NS 8.1 but seldom use it. And when creating links I'll usually use "link" not "newurl" or "topurl" unless "link" won't work for some reason or other.

Firefox, but getting trapped in NitC's frames happened back when I used Netscape as well.

newurl ceates another window. Especially helpful when following a link to a slow-loading site since I can still browse NitC while waiting.

Time for part 2.