How can a scientist (is that what Dr. Marr was?)
lock out Data and Laforge from the main computer?

Very cleverly, it seems.

I think it might have been explained by her saying she was creating a program to prevent the beam power from changing. I don't know what purpose this served but it obviously worked.

Door nit! Door nit! In the scene where Riker discusses the entity with Picard, he starts to walk out of the room. He walks right up to the door, stands there facing the door, and the door stays shut. He then turns around and talks to Picard a little longer. When he goes to leave for real, the doors open as soon as he walks up to them. Another TRTS moment.

She "knows her way around computers." Perhaps she is a 24th century cracker (NOT hacker) and knew enough to be able to lock them out. However, if she "handles that like a pro," why did she hold the tricorder upside down when she was in the cave with Data.

When Data and Marr enter a turbolift after their work in engineering, all the lights on the inside of the lift are out! Luckily when the lift starts moving the lights are back on.

Data tells Marr that Soong downloaded people's memories and/or journals from the colony he was found at. Doesn't this seem like an invasion of privacy, or at the very least, frivolous? Shouldn't Data simply have straight-forward information about science, math, etc.? Why clutter up his memory capacity with irrelevant journal entries from some kid (Marr's son)? And if you were part of the colony, would you want to be hooked up to some kind of mind-reading downloading system, and have your most personal thoughts transferred into an android? Sounds a little bit too much like the android Kirk from What Are Little Girls Made Of.

I agree with the privacy issue, but not about it being frivolous. Data has always been a student of humanity, so this just seems consistent with that.

Why do all older women on ST always wear long gowns? (Marr, Admiral Satie, Lwaxana). They are so impractical, especially for exploring caves.

Susan Diol plays the young woman (I think the character's name was Carmen) who piques the interest of Riker early on, before being killed by the crystal entity. She later played Denara Pel in two episodes of "Voyager"

After telling Dr. Marr that her son Rennie liked a girl's physical attributes, Data appears embarrassed, but Data is an android without emotions.

Why would the sensors in Engineering be better than sensors on the Bridge? Even if they are better, shouldn't they all be connected?

Why is there what appears to be a staircase in the cave on Melona?

If Dr. Marr had discovered Bitrium on previous destroyed worlds, then why wasn't it in some kind of record that Data could access?

If there were no previous survivors of the Crystalline Entity, then how did Dr. Marr know that people on two other planets tried to hide in caves? When Carmine and the old man were zapped they and everything they were holding or wearing were destroyed. There was no evidence that they had even been there. So why should people in caves be any different?

Of course, Dr. Marr is incorrect in saying the creature left no survivors, Dr. Soong was known to have survived. That was shown in the earlier episode Brothers.

An unanswered question from this ep is did Data's presence save the colonists. I think probably. The Crystalline entity wouldn't have known it was the wrong android until it communicated with him.

In Datalore, Data had no memory of what happened to the colony, but here Data says that Dr. Clendenning was working on new detection techniques when the colony was attacked.

No one had heard of this Crystalline Entity prior to Datalore, so presumably, Omicron Theta must be out in the boondocks of space. So why did Dr. Marr send her son to an out of the way colony? For that matter wouldn't it have been easier to just keep her son with her while she tried to finish up her work and join the colony later?

The stars as well as the Crystalline Entity move when the continuous graviton beam was on, except to just before the creature exploded.

Why would Dr. Marr's career be ruined? True she did wantonly destroy an apparently sentient creature, but it was a dangerous creature. If someone discovered that the AIDS virus was intelligent, would that mean scientists would stop trying to find a cure and just let those infected people die?

I suppose it's possible that the entity converts living matter into energy and uses that to 'feed' itself. This would explain how it killed the colonists on Omicron Theta, sealed up in their disguised hideout, the people on other planets who hid in caves and the crew of the transport in this episode. It also makes sense considering it's crystal structure, heat allows crystals on Earth to grow, presumably it would require energy to grow.

The feeding habits of this creature are quite interesting. It strips a planet of life so that more than 26 years later the ground is "almost completely lifeless." Which means that it wouldn't come back to that planet when it gets hungry again, because who knows how long it will be before there is enough life on the planet to sustain it.
After scarfing down Melona IV, it snacks on the crew of a space ship and is heading on it's way to another planet. Most large animals either eat a huge meal and then wait days before eating again, or they eat something which is incredibly plentiful and in both cases, what they eat is a renewable resource. Whether the planets it strips of life will ever have thriving ecologies again is unknown.
The Crystalline Entity's feeding range must be tremendous, and yet it was close enough to Omicron Theta in Datalore to threaten the Enterprise, but in Inheritance we learn that there was a nearby planet where Dr. Soong and Julianna got married, but it was left alone. Possibly the creature's eating habits change through time, when it first appeared at Omicron Theta it was unable to eat the whole planet, so there were survivors. It ignored the nearby planet, but apparently waited around for 26 plus years until the Enterprise showed up, then we find out it ate two or more planets just prior to this episode, eats Melona IV, a ship crew and is on its way to a buffet. (My guess would be that this current feeding frenzy indicated that it was about to reproduce.)

lt's also possible that it is not a natural creature, but some kind of weapon, not unlike the planet killer from the Classic Trek episode, The Doomsday Weapon.

Some of the footage from this episode comes from "Datalore"

Riker sure does a lot of gawking & dawdling when the entity attacks the colony. I guess "Harriman 101" is a required course in Starfleet.

So, how come the doctor doesn't point out that Picard's past failure to destroy, or at least tag so that it can be tracked, the Silicon entity has apparently resulted in the destruction of several planets and a good number of federation citizens?
Presumably, if there is a tiger attacking the village you are charged with protecting, and you can't capture it, repel it, or figure out where it will strike next, you have to kill it, no matter how much you may admire its beauty.

What good is starfleet if it doesn't do this? Planetary defenses, anyone? And, by the way, after a fiasco like this, Picard would be demoted to transporter chief.

You may also remember Susan Diol as George's girlfriend that requires a nose job in a funny episode of "Seinfeld."

No, those transporters ar too hard for Picard (see "Starship Mine") put him in turbolift contol. (so he can watch turbolifts whiz around all day.

Great line, "He enjoyed her kindness, her gentleness, her physical attributes," Data describing what Dr. Marr's son liked about Jennina.

Her huge tracts of land......

How can a living thing warp space? Why didn't the CE move away when that final graviton beam was activated? When I hear things painfully loud, or even uninteresting, I protect my ears.

Painfully loud? In space? In space there is no sound.

How can a living thing warp space? I dunno. If it evolved in outerspace, or with the ability to travel through it, who knows how its physiology could form in such a way to generate or manipulate gravity.

I know about there being no sound in space, I was merely making a comparison. Dr. Marr even compared the gravaton beam to "tapping on a crystal gobblett." When she turned on the beam and a constant interval the CE immediately recoiled so it's safe to say it was unpleasant for it. Why it didn't choose to aviod that unpleasantness, ultimately saving its life, and just leave is why I asked that question.

Maybe the vibrations inhibited its ability to move? Like whacking someone over the head with a baseball bat, and then after the person falls down, asking them, "Why didn't you run away when he started doing that?"

Just guessing.

Why didn't Deanna Troi sense Marr's thirst for revenge?

Marr didn't keep her feelings toward the entity a secret. She told Picard how to destroy it and than got angry at him when he said that he would rather try to communicate with it first and only destroy it as a last resort. Wishing someone or something dead isn't a crime; acting on it may be depending on the situation.

In "Datalore", Lore spoke to the entity in plain English. Why do they need to use special sound waves to communicate to it now?

---

quote:

John A. Lang: In "Datalore", Lore spoke to the entity in plain English. Why do they need to use special sound waves to communicate to it now?

---

When Carman gets zapped with the old man, it looks as if the ground shakes; shakes as in it looks like it's bouncing. Like the effect wasn't put in real well.

As for the stairs in the cave, it's possible that they were put in there intentionally in case a tornado or something came by before the weather control net was operational. To be used as a storm shelter if it were.

speaking of weather. It's obvious a filter was placed over the lens when the CE arrived to make it look like it was covering up the sun. You can tell because there's still some pretty strong shadows from the trees on the ground and the people as they run for cover.

There were two distinct facial expressions or "looks" on two of the characters' faces in this episode that I thought were noteworthy. One was when Riker was talking to Carmen about sharing a meal, and she said that she "makes the most wonderful desserts", to which Riker responds in his ever-so-charming way "My favorite part of dinner." This causes Carmen to smile at him, the kind of smile that I think might possbibly translate as "I so totally want to sleep with you!" Which might have happened if she had not been tragically "absorbed" by the Crystalline Entity.

The other "look" is on the face of Kila Marr after she has used the Enteprise's graviton emitters to blast the Entity with sound vibrations, and it violently shatters into millions of pieces. After saying out loud "It will never hurt anyone again" Data escorts her to quarters. There she asks him if he has any other memories of Renny, her late son who was killed at Omicron Theta. Data responds with "You say you did it for him, but I do not believe he would have wanted that. Yes. I believe your son would be very sad now. I'm sorry, Doctor, but I cannot help you."

It's at that moment that Marr realizes the full impact of what has happened, as her scientific career is basically over, and she will most likely be brought up by the Federation on charges of destroying a sentient life-form. It is then that she has the look of shock and disbelief on her face, which I think was the universal expression for "My God, what have I done?!"

Well, anyway, this episode was one of the saddest and most depressing ones in all of Trek. I think it belongs in the same catagory with DS9's "Duet" and VGR's "Jetrel".

Just some food for thought. Later now.

So how come nobody's comented on my post? I think it was a good one, probably one of my best!

And on that note, where is everybody? This site used to have a TON of posters, now there's only a handful left these days. And I think that's pretty depressing.

Sometimes new posts can go for months before someone responds to it, and I say, we can do better than that! It's like on the Monty Python board, no one ever wrote anything in response to those!

So where the hell is everybody? Please come back, wherevedr you are!

Some of us are still around lol. I got the idea that woman was upset over the news that her son would be dissapointed as opposed to feeling any guilt. As for charges you find a jury that would convict her. It would be like trying to prosecute someone for killing Hitler or Mugabe, in the UK, it's not going to happen.

>So how come nobody's comented on my post? I think it was a good one, probably one of my best! >

You want comments; I'll give you comments.
First; I think you post of October 26 stinks. Second; I don't ilke the font you use. Third; You don't use enough semi-colons.


(PS I'm just kidding with you.)

Daniel is right, she'll probably get fired from her job, but that's about it.

And on that note, where is everybody? This site used to have a TON of posters, now there's only a handful left these days. And I think that's pretty depressing

This is just my opinion, but I think the reason is just the passage of time. NextGen ended in 1994, that's sixteen years ago, going on seventeen now. This show is old news, the fans have moved on.

And more importantly Phil's publisher dumped him back in 1999 after a series of high profile lawsuits by media corporations against publishers of unauthorized works based on their work.

Ironically Phil's books were often used as exhibits in cases by media attorneys about what kind of unauthorized books their clients WOULDN'T go after. But since we were a small niche market they decided that it would be safer to just dump him than risk a multi million dollar lawsuit from Fox, Paramount, Sony, ect.

Phil was actually preparing a nitpickers' guide to the origional "Star Wars" trilogy when he was dumped; it was supposed to come out the same month as "Star Wars: Episode I." I'm sure if he was still publishing books about shows like "Lost" & "Supernatural" we'd be seeing all kinds of activity on this site.

We now return to your regularly scheduled nitpicking.

Personally I think this is one of the weaker episodes of season 5. The "morality" of it made sense to me when I was 12 and it first aired. Picard getting all on his high horse about how the entity isn't evil, just feeding made sense to me back than. Today I feel more like Dr. Marr was 100% right in what she did and Picard was being naive. Plus the ending where Data tells Marr that her son would not be happy that she destroyed the entity, didn't ring true for me. It did more than just kill him, it killed everyone that he cared about on that colony were he was living.

Plus it also conspired with Lore to destroy the colony & the Enterprise back in "Datalore." If it had just shown up one day and started absorbing people perhaps I could understand. But it was communicating with Lore and using him to set traps.

To Tim: I was talking about this website and the lack of people posting on it nowadays, not about how long ago TNG went off the air. Thanks anyway.

To Brian: You have a lot of srong opinions about TNG, and lately you have been responding to my posts at times. But, just like with Phil and the Guides, I do not always agree with you. Like in this case. I happen to think that "Picard getting on his high horse" about not destroying the Entity was the fault of the show's writers, and not people like me who notice mistakes in things and enjoy finding faults and shortcomings with both TV and movies. That's why I still post here, although many others who used to have quit and are now gone.

Also, I didn't ask for a history lesson concerning Phil's works and properties. I knew about all that junk already. SO, like I said to Tim, thanks anyway, and to you Brian, I add: nobody likes a know-it-all.

Have a nice day.

Oh, and to Daniel, time travel doesn't exist, and probably never will, so the scenario of going back and killing Hitler before he commits to the Final Solution is a moot point. ANd it's the same with any historical figure who lived in the past and did horrible things in the past, and now we modern people in the 2000's wish we could go back and kill them.

Well, it ain't never gonna happen. So there ain't gonna be no imaginary trial with an imaginary judge and jury who would never convict the murder of a dictator/mass murderer, because, the concept just doesn't fly. It would never work in the basis of reality!

So, good day to you, and peace and long life, and all that bulls***.

I meant if it were to be revealed that Hitler was still alive no one would care if someone killed him, because you most certainly would be prosecuted for his murder if you killed him before he did anything. Also Mugabe is still alive so not exactly a time travel example. Btw did I touch a nerve or something there?

Andre Reichenbacher: I happen to think that "Picard getting on his high horse" about not destroying the Entity was the fault of the show's writers, and not people like me who notice mistakes in things and enjoy finding faults and shortcomings with both TV and movies.

WTF are you even talking about with that one? First you want to talk about the episode than you don't?

Andre Reichenbacher: Also, I didn't ask for a history lesson concerning Phil's works and properties. I knew about all that junk already.

Than why did you ask "where's everybody at; why isn't anybody commenting on my post?"

Sorry, guys, I was just being a bit temperamental.

Anyway, I suppose it was for the greater good the the Entity was destroyed, know what I mean?

I just wonder if the same could be said for Armus, seeing as how he was trapped on the planet with no way to leave. I believe Vagra II was quarentined as a result of Yar's death. That's about the best they could do, I guess.

And Brian Fitzgerald (sorry for the argument, man, I meant no offense) did say a while back that Gene Roddenberry originally said that Armus should merely remain by himself for all eternity, and not be destroyed, if it was even possible.

I have to say that I am OK with that!

As for Lore, who conspired with the Entity to kill all the Omicron Theta colonists (as well as an attempt to "absorb" the Enterprise crew) he would eventually get his comeuppance, in the form of being deactivated and disassembled by Data. That was pretty gratifying, I have to say!

Aw, but you forget The Measure Of a Man that established that Data had the same rights and priviledges as any other Federation citizen. Well, wouldn't that apply to Lore as well?

Granted, what he did would be deemed criminal, but under Federation law, wouldn't he have a right to a trial for his crimes? Phil was right when he pointed out in his second TNG book that what was done to Lore was basically murder. He was a Federation citizen, criminal or not, and he had the same rights as Data had. Therefore, they had NO right to dismantle him, rather he should have stood trial for his crimes.

Murdering people without trial is more the Cardassian style.

Phil was right when he pointed out in his second TNG book that what was done to Lore was basically murder.
Dismantling an android is not the same as dismantling a human. As long as his parts are intact he could be reassembled for his trial.

He was a Federation citizen
Really? Until Measure Of a Man Data wasn't considered a citizen, just property, despite working for Starfleet for 20-odd years. (And did the episode actually grant him citizenship or just the right to decide his own fate?) IIRC the Admiral in the The Offspring didn't think Lal was a citizen, just a thing.

While it's possible Lore was a Federation citizen I don't think we have any hard evidence to back that assertion.

Phil was right when he pointed out in his second TNG book that what was done to Lore was basically murder.

Not really; Data shot Lore in the course of duty & than deactivated him to save the Enterprise. A good lawyer could argue that Lore was officially an enemy casualty at that point. They could try to repair the damage that Data shooting him did & reactivate him for a trial; but from a legal standpoint, why would you? When a soldier shoots an enemy you don't have to take them to a trauma center if they are bleeding out. You just let them die & than do whatever with the body, perhaps an autopsy, which taking him apart might qualify as.

Well, I suppose you could say that Data acted in self defense, Lore was pulling a weapon when Data shot him.

However, there is a way around this. Disaster showed that Data's head could be active indepdendent of his body. They could have removed Lore's head, reactivated it, and then he could still get a trial. As long as he could speak in his own defense.

No doubt Lore would be convicted. I wonder what his sentence would be. Life imprisonment, but that would be hundreds, if not thousands of years. Maybe they'd do what they did with Khan, stick him on a remote planet and declare said planet off limits.

My main issue with the ending of this episode is that they portrayed destroying the Crystaline Entity as a horrible thing.

Picard earlier uses argument that the Sperm Whale eats all sorts of Cuttlefish (I think that's the species he uses) but the Doctor responds that it's different destroying worlds and absorbing (!!!) sapient beings.

I can't help but think that if this was an episode of TOS and there was no alternate food source for the Entity that Kirk would have speechified it into destroying itself.

One could perhaps argue that the crystaline entity is an abomination (if not that, its actions imo are). Maybe it's natural, maybe it isn't. Does it have the right to live? Yes it does. However, so do the people that it preys upon.

These planets had no way to defend themselves from this thing.

It was a dangerous predator.

Even if it didn't understand the horror of its actions, to allow it to roam freely is in my opinion, a crime.

Does a Starship Captain have the right to make life and death decisions? Maybe, probably not. However, right or wrong, there are times they need to do just that.

I think the ending would have been much better if they ended up with no choice but to destroy it because the alternative was far more horrific. They could have shown that being a Starship Captain isn't all adventure and fun. In some cases, it could well place one in the position of having to have a horrible needs of the many decision.

It could also have shown a real shades of grey ending where there was no real way to win.

Personally, I think that would have been better then showing how revenge doesn't work and only serves to cause more harm. That itself is a good lesson but I think they could have done better.

Lore was definetly NOT part of the Federation. In The First Edition of the Star Trek CCG put out by Decipher, Inc. from 1994 to 2002, both Lore and Dr. Soong were "Non-Aligned" personnel. In the game, that meant they could presumably work with any other affiliation, but Lore's card specifically stated that he "does not work with Federation personnel". Just like on the show, isn't that something!

Plus, at one point, he assaulted his creator Dr. Soong, who died from his injuries. And because of that and all the lives lost at Omicron Theta (plus all the Rogue Borg he experimented on and crippled them for life) I am glad he was"killed" by Data. Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say!

And that goes for the Crystal Entity, too. I thought about it, and even though it was not generally the way the Federation usually did things, I am glad Dr. Marr destroyed it!

(But I still say that this episode is one of the saddest and most depressing ones in all of Trek, along with Duet and Jetrel.)

Merry Christmas to all who see this!

I think it may be an attempt to have it both ways, for Picard to compare it the Entity to a wild creature like a sperm whale that doesn't see the prey it needs to feed on in a moral dimension, but then to insist that they try to communicate with it. If it's a sentient and sapient-enough creature that it could communicate with people, then wouldn't it have abstained from feeding on planets with sentients?

What if it is sapient in the same way that Galactus is?

Civilian: "Hey, wait! STOP! Don't eat me! I'm a sentient being!"

Galactus: "Yeah, I know."

Civilian: "What---what're you doing? What the hell is this stuff you're dumping all over me?"

Galactus: "Barbeque sauce. Yummm....."

Luigi, did you know that Galactus has a daughter now?

Her name is Galacta (how creative) and earlier this year Marvel released a well-written one-shot comic explaining her existence in the Marvel Universe. It really is quite amusing, but pretty interesting too!

And regarding Picard and the Entity, most of the time, you *can't* have it both ways, unfortunatly.

(Also, Galactus consumes entire planets, not individual sentient beings, just to let you know. The beings are on the planet and possibly number in the billions, and they do die when Big G consumes their world. Such is the way of the Marvel Universe!)

Lore was definetly NOT part of the Federation. In The First Edition of the Star Trek CCG put out by Decipher, Inc. from 1994 to 2002, both Lore and Dr. Soong were "Non-Aligned" personnel. In the game, that meant they could presumably work with any other affiliation, but Lore's card specifically stated that he "does not work with Federation personnel"

Yes, but official Star Trek canon is the five TV shows and the eleven movies (from what I have heard, the jury is still out on the animated series).

Since a CCG game is clearly not part of offical Trek canon, your argument is therefore irrelevent.

First off- I've been watching Star Trek since Shatner was the hot new thing in starship captains(watching it with my parents in first-run).

I would have reacted the same way Kirk would have-i would have found a way and killed it(like Kirk did several times in similar cases)-it deserved no less.

About Picard- I lost all respect for him after this story and "Pen Pals"(where he was willing to watch an entire culture die because it had yet to be contacted(note I feel they had subspace radio(Datas friend talked to him for weeks,while Enterprise moved around doing stellar studies)and maybe close to warp drive(seems to go with sub-space radio). I would have put him(and Riker)in charge of some old space dump-one that would make DS9(without the wormhole) look good by comparision.

About Dr. Marr-since she did disobey Picards orders and does need to be punished-she can no longer study the entity(no need)--and is put in a position suiting her skills elsewhere, and I think her son would have been happy for her new job.

About Lore-I think it was wrong to disasemble him-he should have been sent to Bruce Maddox for study and repair. With luck-this will give the Federation the ability to make more Soong style androids(if not maybe Lore can be reprogrammed to repair his anti-social issues),

Galactus is as far above us as we are above an ant--don't bother them unless needed-but if it comes down to him or them--he picks himself every time(although he feels he is here for something important-that will make up for all he destroys).

This,however-does not stop survivers of his previous victoms from seeking revenge.

About Galacta-when I saw her book in the store, I was told a one-shot what-if style story-that she doesn;t really exist(you know what I mean!!!).

"Yes, but official Star Trek canon is the five TV shows and the eleven movies (from what I have heard, the jury is still out on the animated series)." - Tim McCree

I, for one, DO NOT consider Enterprise or the 11th movie to be canonical, they are both not "real" Trek, in my opinion. But I see what you are saying regarding the CCG.

"About Lore-I think it was wrong to disasemble him-he should have been sent to Bruce Maddox for study and repair. With luck-this will give the Federation the ability to make more Soong style androids(if not maybe Lore can be reprogrammed to repair his anti-social issues)"- John E. Porteous

Well, my friend, you are entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else here. But I still say that it was the right thing to do for Data to "D & D" Lore, as he was too dangerous and homicidal to be allowed to live. I don't like the argument that Lore was a sentient being and was therefore granted rights like other Federation citizens. Like I said above, Lore was not a member of the Federation, and not just because a non-canonical CCG said so!

Can we please just put this argument to rest already? Both Lore and the Crystal Entity were murderers, and in the Enity's case, it had comitted mass genocide. Therefore, they deserved to die. And I'm glad they did!

In case you were wondering, I believe in revenge and retaliation for wrongdoings done to innocents, and I also believe in an eye for an eye!

Have a nice day!

BTW John - Galacta is a joke. Her character is not meant to be taken seriously. I get it.

I just wish that Marvel had clearly stated that to begin with, you know, along the lines of "we had nothing better to do so here's another pitiful humor issue". That kind of thing!

I dunno - she seemed like she could be real to me, at least at first, and then I did the math and realised that Galactus having any offspring is completely impossible.

Enough of this. Back to the Trek episode at hand.

I think I've said all that needs to be said about this subject. And I'm tired of talking about it. Therefore after this post, I shall no longer contribute to this thread. And that is that!

And I still wonder what others here think of the "I so totally want to sleep with you" look that Carmen gave Riker. You know he wanted her, but the Entity "absorbed" her, so Riker wanted revenge. That was plainly clear. Not very "advanced & enlightented 24th Century humanity" of him, was it. No siree, it was more "primitive & backward late 20th Century humanity".

Cause even in the future, some men are still players, and they are horny, and they need a lotta noonie-cookie. And that's Riker in a nutshell!

Enough of this, away I go for now.

Happy whatever-you're-having, everybody.

I, for one, DO NOT consider Enterprise or the 11th movie to be canonical, they are both not "real" Trek, in my opinion

Once again irrelevant. Paramount says that ALL the Trek series and movies are canon (with the possible exception of the aforementioned animated series). Since they own the rights to Trek, their word is law.


In case you were wondering, I believe in revenge and retaliation for wrongdoings done to innocents, and I also believe in an eye for an eye

Hate to break the news to you, dude, but this is NOT the Old West. Everyone in the civilized world has a right to trial. Even the top Nazis got their day in court.

And Lore did have the same rights as Data, since he was the same "race". Therefore, under Federation law, he should have been put on trial for his crimes.

"When due process fails us, we really do live in a world of terror."

Well, after reviewing the interchange between myself and the other NC posters regarding this episode and it's incredibly controversial content, I am beginning to wish I had never said anything about it in the first place.

This is the one series of posts on NC that I regret, and that I kind of wish could be removed. Along with some of what I said on the "Justice" board as well. And I have good reasons for feeling that way, believe me.

But I'm not Sherman, so I'm not going to repeatedly bug the moderators to do that. What I said will just have to remain on here for everyone to see, and then people will be aware that, yes, even I can have an off series of days and end up posting lame and ludicrous gibberish.

As Hobbes once said to Calvin, "The problem with people is that they're only human".

So why are you bringing it up now? This discussion ended over six months ago. Let sleeping dogs lie.

Sorry dude, I didn't know you'd have a problem with me "having the courage to admit my mistakes" - Worf to Morak, "Aquiel"

Yeah, I am tired of this whole thing. I'm pretty tired in general, I'm gonna get some sleep.

Tim, I hope you don't hold it against me for "opening up an old wound" or anything. I get that way sometimes, people who know me would agree with that.

Until we speak again...live long and prosper.

Andre:Sorry dude, I didn't know you'd have a problem with me "having the courage to admit my mistakes" - Worf to Morak, "Aquiel"

Relax-you made no mistakes,so have nothing to be sorry for.

We got in a debate-you stated your opinion at the time as did I. Others spoke theirs as well.

As long as none of Phils rules are broken(none were)-you have as much right to speak your mind here as anyone else. I like hearing someone elses point of view.

Andre:Tim, I hope you don't hold it against me for "opening up an old wound" or anything. I get that way sometimes, people who know me would agree with that.

I can't speak for Tim--but I didn't get wounded here,so I have no wounds to open(unlike the Doctor Who board(where I feel the moderator owes me an apology(and more than one person thinks that I can be a royal pain in the neck)).

So-don't sweat it.

Andre:Until we speak again...live long and prosper.

I look forward to it...peace and long life.

"Everyone in the civilized world has a right to trial. Even the top Nazis got their day in court."

Ahh yes, that is true, but remember, youre from Canada. That may actually still be happening there. But here in the USA, we can be jailed and held indefinetly WITHOUT A TRIAL, if we are only even *remotely* suspected of having any kind of connection whatsoever to terrorist organizations.

We can now, as a result of the lovely Patriot Act (which Dubya, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, and Cheney put into effect in the last decade) be targeted and imprisoned if we so much as commit the crime of having the same last name as any of the "evildoers" on all of the Terrorism Watch Lists, as well as be inherently discriminated against for not hyaving the right skin color or speaking the right language, or even for so much as speaking out against the bulls*** that the TSA instituted that infringes on American's privacy and civil liberties, and yet they now are still going on at every airport in the nation.

I leave you now with these classic George Carlin quotes:

"Airport security is a stupid idea, it's a complete waste of money, and it's there for only one reason: to make WHITE PEOPLE feel safe!"

"This is the way Americans are now. They're willing to trade away their civil liberties and their personal freedoms, all in exchange for the feeling...or rather, the ILLUSION...of security!"

But of course, none of this happens in Canada. You all still have your freedoms and civil liberties intact. But then again, the whole rest of the world doesn't hate you, so.....

And to pour even more salt on this festering wound, Osama Bin Laden was brutally murdered by the U.S. Military without getting his day in court. No fair trial for him!

But ya know what? Nobody cares! And I think you all know why.....