• Relics Part 2 June 01 - 5:12 am

I notice they didn't try to hide the fact that James Doohan is missing a finger on his right hand, like they did throughout the original series.

They said that when they were trapped inside that Dyson's sphere that the structure was made of this material that would make their weapons useless against it. If they know about this material and what it can do, why doesn't Starfleet make their ships of this stuff?

When Scotty first operates the transporter on the Jenolan you can see 10 fingers. Later he loses one.

Maybe it was part of the 0.003% of him that degraded from 75 years in transporter stasis...

I think at some point during DS9 somebody (I want to say Kira or Sisko but I'm not sure) said that Starfleet didn't have the technology or resources to make neutronium. Of course, I could be totally wrong, so maybe I shouldn't have put this up........

Maybe it's like the age old question, "why don't they make the whole plane out of the black box?" Answer: if they did, it wouldn't fly.

At the end of the show, Picard gives Scotty a shuttle to explore the Federation with. The exploration will take a while - shuttles aren't warp capable!

To Craig-I disagree. Shuttles have been warp capable since ST-TMP. In that, the shuttle detached from a warp platform. Also, why do Scotty and Worf all but ignore each other at the end?

Something else that bothers me about the shuttle: where's the bathroom? Is Scotty supposed to hold it all the way to the Norpin(sp?) Colony(or wherever else he was going)?

James Doohan once said something like "That's why we have phasers for..."

Re. Scotty and Worf...
Note how at the start of the episode, Scotty reacts incredulously to the sight of a Klingon serving as a Lieutenant on the Enterprise. Whilst at the time of Scotty's disappearance, a treaty had at last been signed between the Klingons and the Federation, as Chancellor Gorkon himself declared, "if there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it." Maybe Scotty just couldn't see Worf as anything more than a barbaric, warlike, fuzz-faced goon...

I agree about the Scotty vs. Worf issue. They disliked Klingons in the original series.

I have a few nits.

First, they completely give up when the friend is at 53% degradation, yet in "Realm of Fear," Barclay is degraded to 51% and he recovers completely normally, with another person who was also degraded. So, is there a ceiling where everything just flies apart? If it is so close, why not try?

Later on, the doctor is checking Scotty and Picard comes in. He speaks with him and at one point, Scotty makes a comment, "I'd be happy to." When he does, he is straight faced. The camera immediately switches to a side view and he is smiling.

A little less of a pick, Scotty is then immediately shown his quarters and while there, he begins talking to the person who escorted him. The whole time, he is waiving his left arm around, just after holding it and cradling it in sick bay. I say a little less because this goes on the rest of the show. This is an expansion to the book's pick.

Next, there is the Dyson sphere. Data declares that it is equidistant from the sun as the Earth is. Here lies a few problems. The first is that the heat would be so immense that no one could live there. The reflected sunlight would serve to amplify the light of the sun, causing a chain reaction which would eventually melt the platform. But, lets say that the platform is that amazing material and is resilient to melting. The heat would still cause the climate to be an arid one, certainly not M-Class (Earth).

Now, lets consider the resources to build said sphere. Data at one point says that it is 10^16 square km. of surface area. So that you get an idea, here it is for you:
10,000,000,000,000,000 km^2

Now, lets calculate the area. First, if you look in the nitpicker's guide, you will find that Riker's estimation is larger than Data's report, so we will use Data's number to be fair. 200 MM Km in diameter, or 100 MM km in radii. Now, to find area of a hollow sphere, you have to find the outer area and subtract the inner area from it. I will assume that the width is only that of the length of the Enterprise, since we can see that it did not clear the surface when fully inside. Using the plans, this is almost exactly 600 Meters, or .6 km

Area=3.14159265359 * r^2
Hollow Sphere= Outside area - Inside Area

(3.14159265359 * (100,000,000.6)^2)-
(3.14159265359 * (100,000,000)^2 ) =

31415926912891119 -
31415926535900000 =

376,991,119 km^3

To put this number in perspective, the Earth's diameter (including atmosphere) is:

12,756.3 km

Half is this is:

6,378.15 km

So, the area is

(3.14159265359 * 6378.15^2) =

127,802,494 km^3

You can easily see that they had to use alot more than that, so here is how much more:

376,991,119 / 127,802,494 = 2.94 Earth's equivalents (including atmosphere) were used for that sphere.

Where did they find, much less transport, this amount of material?

Whew, I think I have finished for now.

Just one nit. The surface area of a sphere is 4*pi*r², not pi*r².

I was calculating area, not surface area.

I just got a Geometry book to be sure,
Area of a sphere:
pi * r^2

Surface area:
4*pi*d (That's diameter, not R^2).

I only listed the surface area so you could get a feel for how immense it is.

I owe you an apology, Math Man,
I am still looking at that book,
"Area of a circle (Dooh) is Pi * r^2"
"Surface area of a circle is 4*pi*d"

I looked a little more,
"Area of a sphere is pi*r^3"
"Surface area of a sphere is 4*pi*r^2"

So, here are the redone calculations:

Area of the Dyson Sphere:
56548668103912007 km^3
Area of Earth:
815143479177 km^3

69372 Earth's Equiv's.

I have double checked this figure. It more closely matches the results I expected to get the first time. That is an immense sphere.

Sorry. There is no such thing as the "area of a sphere".

Circumference of a circle: 2*pi*r
Area of a circle pi*r²

Surface Area of a sphere: 4*pi*r²
Volume of a sphere (4/3)*pi*r³

This concludes our lesson for the day.

It still takes a lot of Earth's (more by your numbers, but I am done with this discussion).

The Enterprise when caught inside the Dyson sphere has apparently lost most of it's navigational/propulsion systems.How is it then that when 'LaForge the useless' and Scotty wedge the entrance open,Picard gives the 'about turn' order and off they go.How?

I love the 'no bloody A, B, C or D' line, but why does the computer neglect to mention all the other ships called Enterprise, such as those shown in ST:TMP?

Those tractor beams sure give the Enterprise one heck of a fling. It takes months for one of our space probes to reach the sun, even though we're doing it on purpose.

>

Because Scotty first gave the registration number NCC 1701 to the computer, other Enterprise ships did not have the 1701 designation, including Capt Archer's Enterprise NX-01

Still, not the Ent-1701 bridge from "The Cage." Or "Where No Man Has Gone Before." Or TMP. Or TWOK. OR SFS (It looked different).

The computer probably just chose the most well-known Enterprise-1701 bridge.

"Most well-known"? How do you figure this? In what way is the TOS bridge more known than the movie bridge? There are obviously extensive visual records of all of them, aren't there? Why would they bee any less for the ones prior to or after the regular series?

On Old Men & New Uniforms:

While watching this episode last night during TNN's marathon, two things came to mind:

1) Okay, yes, Geordi got Scotty over the initial hump of dealing with this situation...but is it SUCH a good idea to just LET HIM GO ON HIS WAY, in a modern shuttle? I mean, he's just been released from a transporter pattern buffer where he'd spent more years than he'd been alive up until the point he went in!

Does anyone think this MIGHT cause some residual psychological effects that it would be good to have a full-fledged counselor around for? Additionally, he's stuck in a shuttle based on a technology that he's 75 years out of date dealing with? What happens the first time he runs into a function he doesn't know how to operate? This is a severe depression episode (or worse) in the making!

Am I the only one who thinks that, if Scotty doesn't kill himself (willfully or accidentally) or store himself in the transporter on the shuttle, that he'll end up holed up in that Constitution-class starship they've got at the Fleet Museum?

2) This goes as much for "Yesterday's Enterprise" and other Trek episodes where Starfleet crews deal with people from Starfleet's past: why in the world doesn't anyone question the marked difference in the uniforms of these supposed people from their future that they've encountered, especially when they have every reason to be suspicious?

Are they so used to Starfleet changing uniforms at the drop of a hat that they've accepted that a totally different uniform not only could, but IS, in fact, a Starfleet uniform?

Totally unrealistic. This is what I think would really have happened after Scotty is released from the pattern buffer:

RIKER: We're from the starship Enterprise, we're here to rescue you.

SCOTTY: Really? And who authorized you to wear those fancy pajamas on a mission?

(Worf walks in. Scotty is shocked and suspicious.)

RIKER (to Worf): Report, Lieutenant?

SCOTTY: Lieutenant?!? I knew those uniforms didn't add up!

(Scotty grabs Riker's phaser and resets it to "KILL")

SCOTTY: Okay, pups, you won't take me alive! You traitors, you can go to hell, but I won't give you any information, and you won't use me for a hostage!

(Scotty fires the phaser at Worf, killing him, and then runs away, leading the Away Team on a wild chase on the Jenolen.)

At least, that's what *I* think...

Scotty tells the computer to show him the bridge of his ship. It tells him it needs more info. He says to show him the bridge of the Enterprise. The computer says there have been 5 Federation ships by that name. Scotty says NCC-1701, without an a, b, c, or d. It shows him the main TOS bridge.

1. He says the bridge of the Enterprise, how does the computer know not to show him any of the sailing ships? Or the aircraft carrier? Or the space shuttle? Or the ship seen in TMP? Or the NX-01? Or any other Enterprises throughout history?

2. How does the computer know he means a Federations starship? What if he meant the NX-01, from before the Federation?

3. It's not the Ent-1701 bridge from "The Cage." Or "Where No Man Has Gone Before." Or TAS. Or TMP. Or TWOK. Or SFS.

*For #3, I meant that that bridge was probably used during the most "legendary" command of Kirk, with the TOS-era crew and equipment.

Could it be that that's the version most often used, or last used) by last person to use the holodeck? When I'm using Microsoft Word, the last/most commonly used other documents are listed under the FILE menu on the top toolbar. Could a similar thing be at work here?

I found a 47 here. At the beginning, it's stated that Matt Franklin's transporter signal had undergone 53% degradation, which means it was 47% intact!

What I always find funny is the end. Scotty tells Geordi he thought they were going to Ten Forward for a drink.

Geordi responds, "Actually, I had better idea."

I always add, "We're kicking you off the ship instead."

"...but we're gonna let you smooch Troi a bit before we do so."

Sounds good to me!

Did the episode give any theories to who created this titanic sphere? It's been awhile since I have seen it so I can't recall? Maybe Q or one of his race is responsible.

The episode never says. There was a TNG novel named Dyson Sphere, but I didn't read it, and I don't even know if the one featured in it was the one featured in this episode.

There was also the novelization of this episode called Relics. I don't remember if anything was mentioned in it. But an excuse to read it while in bed with the flu is now gotten.

Get well soon, Lolar.

No...the novelization gives a few more details about the interior of the sphere (courtesy a subplot that features a cocky ensign trying to impress Riker), and speculates in generic terms about the race that made it, but we don't learn anything specific.

Thank you. This flu bug has been worse than others. Normally they respond to the herbals I take (echinnacia tea with lemon and mint is very nice) but this time I had to actually go to the doctor as it just wasn't going anywhere. Oh well. I started reading Relics again and you are quite correct. While expanding a quite a bit on the episode it doesn't seem to really give much background. Oh well that's just ground for other writers to cover later.

When Scotty first walks onto the classic bridge, the chair for the navigator is turned to starboard. A shot or so later, it is facing straight, without Scotty adjusting it.
What happened to the glass that Scotty and Picard drank from? Scotty was holding the bottle, but Picard put the glass down after drinking his second shot, and I don't think he picked it up. Therefore, when Scotty ended the bridge simulation, the glass should have fallen to the deck and shattered.
Scotty's shirt was dirty even during his examination by Dr. Crusher. However, at the beginning of Act II, his shirt is spanking clean. I hope I can find a laundry service as fast. (Actually, I hate laundry services and do my own wash.)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Enterprise beaming Scotty and Geordi off of the Jenolen through her shields.

Lots of people have, Brian.

The posts mentioning shields have been lost or moved. I'm not surprised Brian thought nobody had spotted it.

Just searched the whole page for a reference to it, but don't see one. :/

Phil also mentioned it in the book as I recall.

Fine. I didn't say "Look at me, look at what I found!" I merely expressed my surprise that such a well-known nit had no mention here. Meanwhile, there's plenty of talk about what happened to Scotty's finger, when he was also missing it in the original series.

Whoa, hey, Brian, take it easy.
You're welcome to discuss whatever nits you want - we just like to keep track of where they came from originally. Y'know, making sure the right person gets credit and all that.

Brian, back in early May 1999, there was some sort of serious glitch on the board here and nearly everything on them was lost. Some topics had been saved by individual nitpickers (I think KAM is to thank for most of them) but nowhere near everything.

It was October 2000. I often refer to it as the "Great Collapsing Nitcentral Disaster of 2000", with apologies to the late Douglas Adams.

To state it more clearly there have been 2 different board disasters. The first one apparently only affected the NextGen board. Other than in the resurrected nits posts you won't find any posts older than May 1999 in NextGen. there was a mention of it in the old JRaines message on the 1st page of the board. I forgot to save it but it generally said that there had been a serious problem with the board and he was having to put everything up again. Oddly after completing most of it, Jon Raines, the moderator at the time, seems to have disappeared from NitCentral for unknown reasons. the last post from him I've come across so far was dated May 10, 1999.

I believe the NextGen Crash actually happened in April of '99, Butch.

ScottN, I believe the '00 Disaster was NitCentral getting too big for the version of Discus the Chief was using.

Thanks KAM.

Oh, yeah. I'd forgotten about the '99 NextGen only crash... Kind of like how slamming your toe into furniture makes you forget about your headache...

There's an old aphorism: "The best engineers have nine-and-a-half fingers."

Why did Geordi, instead of the crew member who was using it, turn off the computer interface?

How can the sensors detect a G type star and class M atmosphere on the inside of the sphere? The shell must be incredibly dense to deal with gravitational stresses, not to mention comets, asteroids and starships crashing into it.

Why didn't Scotty, with all his drinking experience, recognize Aldebaran whisky? Was it created after the Jenolan crashed? Or was that memory part of the .003% degradation? (Or maybe all of Scott's drinking experience ruined that particular memory?)

The surface of the Dyson sphere appears to be lit by a sun, but it is built around a sun and there is no mention of it being part of a multiple star system. Also there don't seem to be any surface lights on the thing.

When the Enterprise goes into the Dyson sphere, clouds float over the entrance. To keep the air from being blown out into space shouldn't the sides of the entrance be higher than the atmosphere?

Then again, why have a door big enough for a ship anyway? Wouldn't a better design be to have docking bays that ships could attach to? Then cargo and people can be shipped up to the inner surface & back without risk of losing air or some spaceship losing power and crashing onto the inner surface.

Why wasn't the Jenolan pulled inside the sphere like Enterprise?

Also what did the people of the sphere use to communicate with approaching ships? Semaphore flags? Flashes of light? Could it be the 'Gravimetric Interference' was their means of communication? That could explain why the sensors 'failed' to pick it up.
The Sub-routine that normally deals with gravity information looked at it and said "This is for communication." and sent it over there. Communication said, "I can't read this! This is for Gravity Detection." and sent it back, and so on and so on and so on...

So why didn't Geordi think about what tools to bring to work on the 75 year old ship? In Peak Performance he brought the proper tools to work on the 80 year old Hathaway, so why not here on a younger ship?

When the Enterprise goes into the Dyson sphere, clouds float over the entrance. To keep the air from being blown out into space shouldn't the sides of the entrance be higher than the atmosphere?

Then again, why have a door big enough for a ship anyway? Wouldn't a better design be to have docking bays that ships could attach to? Then cargo and people can be shipped up to the inner surface & back without risk of losing air or some spaceship losing power and crashing onto the inner surface.
Luigi Novi: Perhaps there are forcefield bubbles around the entrances?

Why wasn't the Jenolan pulled inside the sphere like Enterprise?

Because the Jenolan was out of range of the tractor beams. Geordi explained that part of the plan, and we saw the tractor beams searching for the Jenolan and being unable to find it.

Of course, there was an easier solution to the problem:
1) get the door to open
2) contact the Enterprise and let them know the door was open.
3) let the door shut. Enterprise arrives at shut door.
4) use the same trick to open the door again

Of course, this wouldn't be as exciting as wedging the door open.

I think Keith meant why wasn't it pulled in seventy-five years ago. If it was out of the tractor range, then why did it crash?

Explained in the novel, I know, non-canon. However, the Sphere is supposedly studded with bunches of communications arrays. Only the ones near doors activate the tractor beams. All the others activate some kind of 'shunting' system to guide a ship near a door. The Jenolan hailed one of the others, couldn't handle the shunting system, and crashed.

>I think Keith meant why wasn't it pulled in seventy-five years ago.

In which case, good question KAM, and sorry. I don't think it was clear from the episode, but I was working on the assumption that they activated something other than a door.

The Enterprise found the door and easily recognised it as such before hailing. Scotty didn't mention a door, so I guess the Jenolan was nowhere near a door when it hailed.

Although the episode doesn't explain everything, the episode does seems consistent with JD's explanation.

yes, why didnt scotty mention the nx -01, because no one knew the newest show will be called enterprise some 7 years later also it didnt hav the prefix 17 in it, and mike yr post is like mine in the star trek.com post no bloody abcd ! ^5

There's a hideously bad edit in the first moments of this episode. It opens with Riker and Picard looking over Data's shoulder as he identifies the distress call as coming from the Jenolan. Riker orders a red alert and Picard tells the navigator to take the ship out of warp... the ship shudders at it encounters the gravametric field of the Dyson sphere, and suddenly Picard and Riker are striding from the top of the bridge by Worf's station, down to Data who's seated alone at Ops, where they'd been standing a moment earlier.

KUDOS to the writers. Scotty's memories of the original Enterprise were picture perfect. He mentioned, "Elaan of Troyius", "The Naked Time", "Wolf in the Fold"....all with historical accuracy.

You wouldn't see that on Enterprise (or even Voyager).

Ccabe: You wouldn't see that on Enterprise (or even Voyager).

Unless, of course, they managed to get Scotty ON those shows somehow...

You wouldn't see that on Enterprise. - CCabe

Of course not... because on Enterprise they wouldn't have happened, yet. So how can there be mnemories of future events?

hello? Don't tempt them

Three words: Temporal Cold War

Charles, when you say, "You wouldn't see that," what specifically are you referring to by "that"? TOS characters appearing? People reminiscing or talking about the 2260's? Good memories? Just curious.

I was refering to good continuity.

There are a few times in which LaForge touches Scotty's sore arm...and there's no reaction like "ouch" from Scott.

I must say too that LaForge should've apologized to Scotty for lashing out at him in Engineering.

IIRC, in the novelisation, he does. I think in the final cut they just assumed that the whole 'buddy-buddy' bit at the end would cover apologies as well.

GREAT SCENES: The Original Enterpirse Bridge set on the Holodeck and that corkscrew manuver that the Enterprise-D performed to exit the Dyson Sphere.

P.S. Kerriem...that's interesting.

that corkscrew manuver that the Enterprise-D performed to exit the Dyson Sphere

As executed by helmsman Ensign Rager (who returns for the next episode), a.k.a Lanei Chapman who later appeared in "Space: Above And Beyond". (No, I still want to see it on DVD.)

Words to live by, courtesy of Capt. Montgomery Scott:
"There comes a time when a man can't fall in love again. He knows it's time to stop."
Using TOS transporter effect when Scotty was beamed in was very cool. However, since the Jenolan was of the same vintage as the refitted Enterprise, shouldn't they have the transporter effect from either TMP or TWOK/SFS?

I don't know if anyone mentioned this on the Generations boards, but when Riker says that he is from the Enterprise, Scotty remarks that "Kirk must have dug her out of mothballs to come find me," or something similar. Wasn't Scotty there when Kirk was sucked into the Nexus on the Enterprise-B? He should think that Kirk is dead.

Phil mentioned it in the NextGen Guide II. I believe an anti-nit was that a slight degradation was mentioned so maybe that memory was lost while Scotty was dematerialized.

The old transporters must have been pretty good compared to the ones on Voyager. There was an episode (I think it was called "Counterpoint") when Tuvok, Vorik, and a bunch of other telepaths had to hide in the transporter. After only a few short stays in the transporter, it's starting to have some negative effects. Scotty was in there for 75 years with very few problems.

I must add that the Helm / Nav buttons on the Holo-TOS Enterprise seemed bigger than the ones seen on the actual TOS Enterprise.

The Enterprise made four discoveries in this episode. First, a Dyson Sphere, which even if it was not the first, is a rare thing because of how hard they must be to make. Second, a long-missing Starfleet vessel. Third, Captain Montgomery Scott, a very famous engineer who knew James T. Kirk, alive and well. Fourth, the ability to keep people alive in a transporter for a long time. Nothing has apparently come of any of them.

The Dyson Sphere would be a huge discovery. You'd think both the Federation and its neighbors would mount expeditions to it, to try to enter it, explore and claim all or parts of it. It has a vast area inside, many times the size of Earth, possibly bigger than all the worlds of the Federation combined. Also, it could be full of advanced technology left behind by the civilization that built it. Knowing that, ou'd think several groups would be trying to figure out how to enter and exit the sphere safely so they could explore it, colonize it, exploit any resources within. Of course, that assumes it is really devoid of intelligent life, which is not a given because the Enterprise was only inside it briefly and couldn't have done a detailed study of the whole thing. All of this could lead to new scientific discoveries and a lot of political tension.

The discovery of the USS Jenolen would answer an unsolved mystery. It may or may not be the least important discovery of the four they made (for all I know that ship could be their Titanic), but there could still be living relatives of the crew who would be interested in knowing for sure what happened. They might be proud that their ship led to the discovery of a Dyson Sphere.

Finding Scotty alive after all these years would be a big thing. Historians, especially ones specializing in engineering, would want to meet him. People wanting to learn about the historical events surrounding Captain Kirk might want to know what happened from the perspective of someone who was there. Scientists who read the report the Enterprise sent back about all this might look him up to find out how he modified the transporter and to enlist his help building a version of the transporter to do it on purpose. Also, he might have chosen to study modern engineering and try to resume his career, or maybe become a guide or caretaker of the Constitution-class ship at the Fleet Museum. He doesn't strike me as the sort to shuffle off to Norpin to wait for God.

The discovery of a method to keep a person alive in a transporter should have revolutionized the movement of personnel and equipment. A modified transporter with a pattern buffer and computer able to store a pattern for an extended period could carry many times the number of people its size would normally contain, without having to feed them, recycle air for them, amuse them, etc. Ships could put equipment or cargo in the buffer and multiply their capacity, using cargo bays to carry untransportable materials. Colonies could have devices like that installed in case of emergencies, so the massacre on Tarsus IV will be more avoidable. New sleeper ships with crews and supplies stored in the transporter could be sent to explore the far side of the galaxy. Give those ships the ability to time-warp back to when they left home, and the trip is effectively instant.

Well...Picard DID mention at the end in his log that several science vessels were going to be dispatched to analyze the Dyson Sphere.

Good. For once they do something that makes sense. I wonder if they ever figured out how to safely open and close the doors.

There is nothing to indicate that Starfleet didn't do any of those things. Remember, space is big, and so is the Federation.

Of all the discoveries you mentioned, the one most likely to surface in a future episode (whether TNG, DS9, VOY, or some future show) is the transporter buffer. But even then, keep in mind that it would probably take years for Starfleet to study this. Remember, though Scotty survived, another person didn't... and even if Scotty survived, there's no telling what effects being left in the buffer may have had on him.

There are already signs of his senility ("You're giving me one of your shuttles?" -- while there was nothing to indicate that's what they were doing at all).

The Jenolen is actually a refit of the shuttle used in STVI. (They added warp naecelles)

And isn't the runabout a refit of the Jenolen?

'Fraid not, the runabout was a brand-new model. They originally wanted to do a refit of the Jenolen model, but they eventually decided that a new design was needed. However, the Jenolen has shown up at DS9 every so often as a Federation transport, and was usually upside down, relative to they way it appeared as the Jenolen. I believe you can see it at the very beginning of "Trials and Tribble-ations," if memory serves.

Craig: At the end of the show, Picard gives Scotty a shuttle to explore the Federation with. The exploration will take a while - shuttles aren't warp capable!

Actually, the larger ones are (I can't remember which one Scotty gets), and the upgraded versions can do something like warp 2.2. Of course, there's no reason why Scotty couldn't buy passage on the 24th century equivalent of a car ferry (that can do the limit of Warp 5).

One wonders if the Dyson Sphere was built by the Sphere-Builders from Enterprise. Probably not, on reflection, as it's much larger...and isn't it a nit that Picard and crew don't remark on the Spheres encountered by NX-01 as a comparison?

Assuming Enterprise takes place in the same timeline as the rest of Trek, which grows less and less likely with every episode.

I think there was no comparison because of the difference in shear size and the fact that the Delphic Expanse Spheres were not built around stars. It'd be like comparing a V2 to a bottle rocket.

I agree, Luigi, it was just idle speculation. The real nit is that Picard's crew didn't remark on the Spheres found by NX-01 when they found the Dyson Sphere. I know it's many orders of magnitude larger, but I still would have thought it would be the obvious comparison.

No. The order of magnitude is different. This thing was so big it was obviously a Dyson Sphere. In addition, there's no spatial distortions.

The Delphic spheres are about the size of a planet. A Dyson Sphere is about the size of a planet's orbit. That's about 4 orders of magnitude difference (18,000 vs. 180,000,000).

And the Dyson Sphere had an Earthlike environment clinging to the inside.

ScottN: The Delphic spheres are about the size of a planet.
Luigi Novi: Not even. They were only 19 kilometers in diameter, according to Anomaly.

A couple of thoughts on teh Dyson Sphere.

First of all, One of the things that constantly bothers me with this sort of thing is a sustained "Class M" environment, or even more to the point, as they say here, "Class M atmosphere," without lifesigns. While the Dyson Sphere could have automatic life support to replenish the oxygen, it seems as if this would be needlessly complex an inefficient.
On the same subject, when they show the inside of the sphere, there seems to be plant life on the surface. While this would explain the class M atomphere, the release of oxygen, shouldn't it have shown up when they scanned for life. I can't see them limiting a scan for intelligent life so far that it would not pick up other life forms. There is simply too much variation that we have seen on the episode between alien races. Additionally, it seems to me that there is a significant differene between something that is completely barren, and something that simply lacks animal life.

Secondly, as far as the construciton materials of the Dyson Sphere. Obviously, the builders would have a higher level of tech than the federation. Normally, in the theories I have heard, all the planets of a star system are "dismantled" to construct a Dyson Sphere. Thus, the only main problem is the line that suggests it is primarily made of one material. IT seems to me unless they had matter conversion (which is quite possible) a Dyson Sphere would be made primarily of rock.

Third, the entire point of a Dyson Sphere is to capture as much heat and energy as possible from the star. Thus, it would be built and designed to use and deal with that energy (and I assume, vent it when nescessary.

On a different subject, exactly how nasty is this synthahol? It seems as if anyone who tries it who is not expecting it reacts as if drinking dishwater.

Pentalarc

NOTE: With Doohan retiring from Star Trek conventions, I now get choked up at Scotty's departure at the end of the episode.

I doubt using all the planets in a solar system would yield anywhere close to enough raw material to construct a Dyson's sphere.

As for why they couldn't detect the plant life. I was under the impression that they couldn't scan the inside of the sphere from outside.

"and I assume, vent it when nescessary."
Stars live a looooooooooong time. By the time it was ready to blow (and destroy the sphere) presumably the society that built it could build another or just didn't want it anymore. Look how far our society has come and Earth's sun has ~2,000,000,000 years left. Presumably the already advanced society that built it choose a younger-ish star when work started. Folks, this thing is ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooold.

The summary for this episode at StarTrek.com has Scotty conferring with Troi before he goes to Ten Forward to get plastered, a scene I believe was shot, but cut from the final episode (which raises the question as to why Troi kissed Scotty at episode's end.) Was the scene restored for the DVD?

hi, also a scene makes no sense is Scotty s line The andriod at the bar said you could show me my old ship, let me see it

just before it went to the ol tos bridge scenes


was this cut out too?

RE: Adam...no, that scene is not on the DVD

RE: Anon...yes, that scene is on the DVD

The scene where Scotty (Doohan) boards the Shuttle & the door closes behind him has developed an all new meaning today.

R.I.P. James Doohan (Scotty)

After going offline, I rewatched this ep yesterday before work. It was a bittersweet experience. So long, Scotty.

"How else can I maintain my reputation as a miracle worker?"

When the Dyson Sphere's tractor beams first grab onto the Enterprise, why didn't Picard give the order to fire Phasers at the source of the Tractor Beams so the Enterprise could break free of the beams?

Probably because Picard realized the Sphere was an archaeological and scientific treasure of unparalleled value?

Still, why risk the lives of over 1,000 people?

Also maybe he figured that it wasn't an outright attack and sense it is starfleet's duty to go out and seek new life forms and all that he was goign to come in since the aliens did ask so nicely.

That is one thign I did have against the galaxy class ships. I mean you join starfleet you are basically going into somethign you know could be a wee bit dangerous, so what do you do you drag your family along. As a colonizer I could see it. Colonizers are like the frontier folk who went west knowing that there could be danger but a better home would be theirs if they fought and worked for it.

The flagship of the fleet though its job is to be thrown into dangerous positions and uncertain first contacts.