Why are the 'Howard women' called the 'Howard women'? Beverley refers to them as such, but she's called Beverley Crusher. It's never been made clear whether, in the 24th century, it's still traditional for married women to take their husband's name (although Keiko did when she married Miles, and so did Jenice Mannheim and Juliana Soong/Taynor. But even if it's been traditional for the female Howards to keep their own surname on marriage, how come Beverley became Mrs Crusher when she married Jack?

Also, in Conundrum, Beverley's Starfleet records show that her parents were Paul and Isobel Howard. It seems pretty clear that Felisa (Beverley's grandmother)'s direct descendent was Isobel, not Paul, so did Paul take Isobel's surname on their marriage?

Maybe Beverly was the exception to the rule of the Howard women keeping their own name?

When Felisa Howard's body is exhumed, first the coffin is beamed out from underground, and then the body. Wouldn't this displace the dirt that was above it? Why wouldn't the dirt sink into the space the coffin previously occupied?

Oh, was that how it was done? I remember thinking that they sure hadn't buried her very deep....

Actually, don't coffins generally get placed inside a cement box before burial? If this is the case than they could have beamed the coffin out without displacing any dirt.

Then why are they lowered into the ground with all bits of brass and polished showing?

I am not certain but I think that the casket is lowered into a cement shell that is covered after the mourners leave. Of course since I am not a coroner, I could easily be wrong. Do we have any graveworkers out there to verify or disprove my assertion?

I have not liked certain episodes of this series, especially the last season, but I think hands down this was the worst. There was nothing good, the plot was contrived, the story was boring, and Gates did some horrible overacting. I like Crusher to, I enjoyed "Remember Me" and "Suspicions", but this was just plain awful.

IIRC, when Beverly destroys the candle so Ronin can't return to it, she grabs Geordi's phaser and fires without first cranking it up to the kill setting. While Geordi and Data were heading into a certainly unknown situation exhuming Felisa Howard's grave, did it really necessitate having their phasers set on kill?

How about this one? I don't care if Geordi knew there was something wacky with Grandma's coffin... When she bolted up and touched him, he should have freaked out!! I can understand Data not moving, but Geordi would have flown back a few meters when the "corpse" sat up and touched him!

Why did Ned Quint wait so long to try and destroy the candle? He helped around the house and handled all of Felicia Howard's affairs. (Well, all but one.) Between Felicia's death and the Enterprise's arrival, he should of have had plenty of time to destroy the candle. (Assuming that Caldos doesn't bury it's dead as soon as it finds them.) Especially since he had worked at the house and probably had his own key. Also when Crusher and Troi enter the house there is a fire burning. Who started it? It couldn't have been left over from when Felicia was alive, there was too much wood and it was burning pretty good.

In the Fall-ish 1995 Nitpicker's Newsletter, in The Editorially Liberated section, under Sub Rosa, Phil comments on Ronin animating Felicia Howard's body even though she should have an advanced case of rigor mortis. I'm not certain how much time has passed since her death at this point, but rigor mortis starts 4-10 hours after death & lasts for 3-4 days.

When Ronin leaves Felicia's body, shouldn't it just flop down instead of slowly laying down

As far as can be determined, the relationship between Ronin and the 'Howard women' seems to be Mutualism, he gets to live and they get great sex, but she destroys him. In The Host Odan calls himself a parasite and she thinks he's as cute as a bug's ear, or something equally ugly. Perhaps Beverly should re-examine her priorities?

KAM: Why did Ned Quint wait so long to try and destroy the candle?
Luigi Novi: Maybe he only figured out the truth about the candle right before the scene in which he went to destroy it? If so, great timing!

KAM: Rigor mortis starts 4-10 hours after death & lasts for 3-4 days.
Luigi Novi: Rigor mortis begins in the lower jaw two hours after death (the first medical person to a crime scene involving a dead body will usually feel the jaw and note the rigidity), and lasts 36 hours, not 3-4 days, and less if the temperature of the environment in which the body is left is higher.


Phil, from the NextGen Guide vol. II; Plot Oversight #1: Where’s Wesley? This is the funeral for his maternal grandmother. Couldn’t he get time off from the Academy?
First of all, Felissa was his maternal great grandmother. Second, he’s a sophomore in college. Is it so hard to believe he’d be too busy with studies to leave, especially if the colony is too far away? The stardate for this episode is 47488.2, or June 28, 2370. Couldn’t he be taking his final exams? The Academy isn’t a vacation resort; it’s a quasi-military academy, and since his credits for his freshman year were deleted at the end of the episode The First Duty, he could be trying to make up for them by taking summer classes so he can catch up to his graduating class. It might help explain why Beverly seems confused as to what grade he’s in in Journey’s End.

Phil, from the NextGen Guide vol. II; Plot Oversight #5: I’ve been told by several nitpickers that this episode bears an uncanny resemblance to an Anne Rice book called The Witching Hour.
Actually, episode writer Jeri Taylor, who is a fan of gothic romance and historical novels, wrote this story as a homage to The Innocents, the film version of Turn of the Screw. The names Ned Quint and Jessel will be familiar to fans of those stories.

She wasn’t completely forthright with the terrorist who kidnapped her? I’m shocked.
Crusher told Finn in The High Ground that her origins on Earth are from North America, but in this episode, she is established to be of Scottish descent, and lived on a colony away from Earth.
Geez, the Coneheads give a straighter answer about where they’re from!
Also, Crusher mentioned to Picard in The Arsenal of Freedom her grandmother, the manner in which Felissa learned about herbal medicine and passed that knowledge down to Beverly, and how Felissa was one of the settlers of the colony. Only problem is, the planet Crusher mentoned in that episode was Arvada III, but is called Caldos in this episode.
They were trying to fit in on Caldos, and tried to emulate the speed with which Quint tried to destroy Ronin’s candle
No one tries to resuscitate Ned Quint.
Well, look on the bright side. At least George Foreman didn’t name them.
How could Beverly’s maiden name be Howard (or her grandmother’s for that matter), if her ancestor, also a woman, had that last name centuries earlier?
And even weirder, he looks a lot like the future First Minister of Bajor
If Ronin was an alien who took human form and wished to pass off as a Scotsman, why choose the name Ronin? Ronin isn’t Scottish. It’s Japanese. It refers to a tale of a rogue samurai who has lost his master and must hire himself out to others as a mercenary. What does this have to do with the episode? Is there a Scottish reference to the same name?

My info on Rigor Mortis came from Murder Ink (1977, ed. by Dylis Winn, Workman Publishing), but I checked some other sources today.

Cause Of Death by Keith D Wilson, MD (1992, Writer's Digest Books)
He listed four hours for Rigor Mortis, although he said it's passed after 30 hours.
He also commented that not every body will undergo Rigor Mortis.

Scene Of The Crime by Anne Wingate, PhD (1992, Writer's Digest Books)
She listed 2-6 hours for beginning Rigor (although she mentioned having encountered a body that after 18 hours was still in the early stages of Rigor) and lasts 24-48 hours.
She also mentioned Cadaveric Spasm, which sometimes happens in an instantaneous death and the muscles lock up and is occasionally mistaken for Rigor Mortis.

So it seems even the experts don't completely agree on start & stop times for rigor mortis.

You should ask Darth Mortis. J

"Rigor!"

But they seem to agree with Michael Baden, and even the highest estimate you have, 48 hours, is only two days, not 3-4.

My source, btw, is Dead Reckoning (2002; Simon & Schuster), by Michael Baden, M.D. and Marion Roach. Baden was chief forensic pathologist for the investigation by the Congressional Select Committee on Assassinations into the deaths of JFK and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He's beena consulting forensic pathologist to the U.S. State Dept., the FBI and the Russian govt. Hei's been a visiting professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, Albert Einstein School of Medicine, Albany Medical Center and New York Law School; He's also the host, of course, of HBO's America Undercover: Autopsy.

But Furby, there are at least three types of mortis: the stiffening of the body (rigor); the cooling of the body (alger ?); the settling of blood in the body (don't remember, but I think it starts with an L). ;-)

Luigi, that's what my original source said & I assumed it was correct.

BTW are you sure the character's name is Ronin & not Ronan. I believe both words can be pronounced similarly and someone hearing the name might misspell it (like say scriptwriter Jeri Taylor).
Ronan in Celtic means Oath & is a man's name. In Irish it means Little Seal & is also a man's name.

KAM< I think it's called lividity.

Sounds familiar.

But Furby, there are at least three types of mortis: the stiffening of the body (rigor); the cooling of the body (alger ?); the settling of blood in the body (don't remember, but I think it starts with an
L). ;-)

Rigor, Algy and Liquor Mortis?

He has two brothers?! I see trouble coming!

It's rigor mortis, algor mortis, and livor mortis.

The character's name is spelled Ronin in all references. Perhaps it should've been spelled with an "a," but was mispelled in the original script, and every reference has copied the mistake?

Says Luigi Nova: Actually, episode writer Jeri Taylor, who is a fan of gothic romance and historical novels, wrote this story as a homage to The Innocents, the film version of Turn of the Screw. The names Ned Quint and Jessel will be familiar to fans of those stories.

In fact, Sub Rosa bears little resemblance to The Turn of the Screw, except for the fact that there are ghosts (or are they anaphasic energy beings?)

It's Novi. Not Nova. I'm not an exploding star, or a Chevy.

Luigi has the unfortunate tendency to be confused with that Luigi Nova person. Luigi Nova is the result of a transporter accident that created a new person with all of Luigi Novi's worse emotions.

Gee, if Luigi ever catches up with him I want a ticket or at least a chance to buy the pay per view.

I thought Luigi Nova was that guy who didn't *go* anywhere.

LOL!

Scott stole my line.

Cute, William.

GREAT MOMENT: Crusher's BARE NAKED LEGS!

I like this episode. It's a great Halloween story. However, the MAJOR FLAW in this episode was--as Phil pointed out in his book, HOW could ALL of Bev's ancestors have the same surname of "Howard"?

I wonder if some of her Howard ancestors were named Moe, Curly, Shemp? ;-)

Yet another good episode directed by Jonathan Frakes. (Note--I said, "good", not "great")

"Good"?!

Yes, Good! Aside the surname of "Howard" snafu, it is an eerie tale which tells us the dangers of falling in love prematurely. The ghostly effects were excellent.

John A., you haven't been fantasising yourself into Ronin's place by any chance, have you?

'Cause, let's face it, the premise behind this ep - Star Trek meets Anne Rice meets gothic melodrama - meant it was doomed to be flat-out dumb from the get-go....and lo and behold, when I watched it, it was even dumber than I expected.
(For starters, you have to assume that Dr. Crusher's IQ is about fifty points lower than previously indicated anywhere in the series to buy her falling for a 'ghost lover'.)

Apparently ,Ronin has some kind of pheromone (sp?) to seduce the "Howard women" and causes them to lose their rational thinking.

BTW---kerriem, No, I'm "Troi's boy"

At one point, Crusher asks Troi to come with her to her grandma's house. They leave. Yet when Picard & the leader talk in the cemetery, you can see Troi wandering around the cemetery!

Re Luigi's comment about 17 years ago about Crusher saying the colony world was Arvada 3 in "The Arsenal of Freedom" but here it's Caldos - two possibilities.

(a) 'Caldos' is just the name of the colony (I believe it was only referred to as 'Caldos Colony', not 'the planet Caldos') - i.e. 'Caldos Colony, on Arvada III'.

(b) Caldos and Arvada III are alternative names for the same planet, like 'Earth' and 'Sol III' or 'Vulcan' and '40 Eridani A II' or 'Andoria' and 'Procyon III'...you get the idea.

And 'Ronin' may be Celtic; 'Ronan' certainly is. I doubt the Japanese reference you quoted was intended.

Oddly enough, on a Star Trek Page-a-Day calendar 2003, some of the pictures from this episode are labeled as being from "Inheritance" instead.

This one's been sitting around for a while and am only now getting around to tearing off the pages. Got bored, I guess.

Phil, from the NextGen Guide vol. II; Plot Oversight #5: I’ve been told by several nitpickers that this episode bears an uncanny resemblance to an Anne Rice book called The Witching Hour.
Actually, episode writer Jeri Taylor, who is a fan of gothic romance and historical novels, wrote this story as a homage to The Innocents, the film version of Turn of the Screw. The names Ned Quint and Jessel will be familiar to fans of those stories.

Interestingly the DVD version, and latest TV release, of the episode contains a credit "Based Upon Material By Jeanna F. Gallo," which did not appear in the original broadcast. That credit is even stranger because it appears near the end of the closing credit sequence where it would probably not be noticed by many. According to The Agony Booth, which considers this ep to be among the worst of Trek:

The producers later claimed this episode was similar to a spec script submitted by Jeanna F. Gallo. However, the mysterious Ms. Gallo has no other credits to her name besides this episode, and, really, if Gallo actually exists and she really did write the spec script, why would they bury her credit in the technical acknowledgements where (they hoped) nobody would see it?

Obviously, "Jeanna F. Gallo" is a pseudonym for Anne Rice, used to allow Rice to receive the royalties entitled to her while still remaining anonymous. This means "Sub Rosa" sucked so bad, not even Rice wanted to take credit for coming up with the original idea.

Interesting. One because memory-alpha and imdb now lists Jeanna F. Gallo as a pseudonym for Anne Rice. It would make sense if that were the case. Rice has used pseudonyms in the past and even if she did take legal action to get royalties for an episode that (may have) ripped off her intellectual property; she'd have plenty of reason to not want a Star Trek episode that she had never agreed to be a part of to not appear on her professional resume.

Also the name Ronin (from this ep) is close to Rowan (from Rice's novel.) Beyond that you have:

* The main character is a doctor,
* Said main character is the latest in a long line of female healers,
* Flowers figure heavily in both plots,
* The ghost originates from Scotland,
* The ghost is passed from mother to daughter down through the generations,
* The ghost uses his sexual powers to achieve his aims,
* The ghost wants to take on a human form more than anything,
* And finally, a family heirloom provides the system that helps the ghost survive (in the book, it's a necklace).

Either way it's interesting and so is The Agony Booth's recap of this episode. Love their line about how a stereotypical Scottish character in the ep is so over-the-top that Montgomery Scott himself would say "hey man, tone it down."

Personally I can't really comment on the quality as a whole as the last time I saw it was over 10 years ago when I was still in high school and so in love with all things Star Trek that I thought even the bad stuff was great. I'm actually going to put it in the DVD player and see how it holds up.

They should have pulled a twist and made Ronin a REAL ghost. Trek fans would never have seen that coming, and it would be nice to shake up the science has an answer to everything idea for a change.

Other science fiction shows such as Babylon Five, Earth 2, and Sequest had episodes that dealt with, or touched upon, ghosts. If those shows could accomodate the existence of ghosts, Trek could too.

I don't recall B5 dealing with ghosts. In fact B5 actually went pretty far in the other direction in creating a world the divine and the supernatural had rational explanations

I refer you to the B5 episode, Day Of The Dead.

That is a good point. I'd forgotten about that one. I recently watched it, as me and GF just finished watching the series; she had never seen it before.

Of course, there is the whole first season of Space: 1999, many episodes which had metaphysical themes. Most 1999 fans agree that Season One was the far superior season. Although I am a Trek fan, I find 1999 a breath of fresh air. In this show, science does NOT rule supreme, questions are not always answered. The universe is a mysterious place, and the Alphans know it.

I think Trek could have been a little more flexable in this regard. It might have freed the writers up a bit.

I REALLY didnt like this episode!

But was it as bad as Gambit, Genesis, Emergence, or Force Of Nature? Nyyeeaahhhh....that's certainly debatable!

Anyway, here's what I said about it back in 2009, on the Beverly Crusher board (paraphrased somewhat):

"This was one of the real stinkers of the seventh season, in my opinion. To have her be romanced by a "ghost" who was really an "anaphasic organism" who had seduced all the females in her family for the past 300 years was really a big disappointment. This time, she actually resigns her commission to be with her "lover", until she discovers the truth about "him" and destroys his heirloom candle, where he gets his power from. She is then forced to destroy him, and I have to admit that was pretty sad. But at least it was cool to learn that Crusher has Scottish heritage, I liked that."

And then Andrew G. responded with this:

"Yeah. Forced as in destroys his home and then vaporizes him out of spite when he is not taking any hostile action towards her, murdering him in a most untrek-like fashion when he was helpless. That kinda 'forced.' :-)"

I have to admit, he was right about that. Too bad he'll never speak to me again after what happened last year on Facebook. And come to think of it, he hasn't been posting here at all lately. Oh well, his choice, I suppose. You can't exactly *make* someone respond to you on the Net if they dont want to,
after all...

Ghel wrote, almost a generation ago:

---

quote:

Actually, don't coffins generally get placed inside a cement box before burial?

---

Besides, we're talking centuries from now.