Oh my? OH MY!? WHAT THE **** KIND OF LAST WORDS ARE "OH MY!"!?
And then he fell...
You're right, Zorro. He should have said,"It's the big one! I'm comin' to join you Elizabeth!"
No, he should have said, "That's big... Really big!"
He's fallen and couldn't get up!!!
On a completely different topic, wasn't Geordi a bit cruel to children in this movie? First he leaves that girls teddy bear to get blown into its component atoms and then he tells some children that a safe place in the crash is just around the corner. Would this be the corner of one of those circular corridors? They'll be going round in circles for hours while Geordi sits back laughing.
Why did that big dome on the top of the bridge smash? What did it get hit by exactly?
How did that rocket get to that sun so quickly? It wasn't travelling faster than the speed of light yet appeared to get there almost instantly.
Firstly, supposedly the rocket can't go that fast. At least, not according to IMDB.
Secondly, here's a slight blooper I noticed the first time I saw the show but for some reason isn't on the IMDB. When Kirk is riding his horse over the chasm, the establishing shot clearly shows a wooden plank across the chasm. But when Kirk actually jumps it, the board is gone!
I usually call myself Zorro, but since Graeme`s nicked that name, never mind. And wasn`t that dome made of transparent aluminium? How COULD it smash?
I thought Generations was the second best odd
Trek movie. Why was it that caused so many Trek fans to hate this film?
I think Soran had a little subspace booster in his rocket. K'ehlar once travelled to the Enterprise in a photon torpedo that was doing about warp 9 and it was a lot smaller than that missile.
John, wasn't it made of transparent aluminum? We've seen that smash so many times in Star Trek before, why wouldn't it smash now? Normally transparent aluminum has a reason for smashing such as someone punching it.
OK, the rocket may have gotten to the sun that quickly but could it travel back in time? Is that why we see the light fom the sun darken instantly instead of having to wait for the light to reach the planet?
I have on word of Soran: Holodeck!
He wouldn't be immortal in a holodeck.
ok... ba'ku + holodeck :-)
Is Guinan killed in the crash or something? She has made no apearences since the movie.
That's what I have been wondering.
Some novel set after Generations metions her traveling to Earth. So, presumably, she is alive and well.
To answer Alfonso's post above:
It's not that I didn't basically like the movie. I did. Especially the opening scenes with Kirk, Scotty, and Chekov.
And the two seconds that Kirk sat in the captain's chair I thought he never looked more "Kirklike" since the original series.
But there were some things I found a little unsatisfying:
1. Kirk dying by falling down a casm like Wile E. Coyote in a "Road Runner" cartoon.
2. The Enterprise saucer section crashing like the Jupiter 2 from "Lost in Space." (I thought it was established that the ship would burn up if it entered a planet atmosphere, or was that just the original Enterprise?)
3. Why Soran didn't simply hang out in space in a space suit and wait for the nexus to hit him.
If this energy ribbon travels predictably through the galaxy every however many years, why were they caught unawares when it passed through the solar system?
I dislike this film because it was so hastily put together. Virtually everything didn't make sense. There was a lot of senseless death. Picard was bummed throughout the film and the only time he perks up is after his ship crashes. Picard could've chosen 1,000 diffent places to leave the Nexus if only to stop Soran, not to mention save his ship and family. Because he didn't, he almost failed again. How does this Nexus know where to deposit you? Just say "Okay Nexus, we're leaving", and you're out? Kirk's death was cheap. The Duras sisters deaths were cheap. It would've been more intriging if they escaped like they did in other episodes. Sure was good for Soran the ribbon scaved the planet at his location. It could've clipped the opposie side of the planet, but that may have added more time to the film, thank god it didn't.
It was a stu-pid film. Written by kids who knew TNG better than TOS. Berman gave the film his blessing saying "make sure it's high on shock value". The primary purpose of this film was to kill Kirk. Every one else, besides Picard and Data, were just in the background. Generations didn't even have much of a happy ending if it could even be called that. I could go on all night trashing this film. Mercifully, I'll postpone.
I didn't like this movie because of the destruction of the Enterprise-D. Idiotic villains (Lursa and B'Etor) that a two-year old could outsmart did it, and it seemed the ship was destroyed just to get it out of the way.. Like stated above, all of the Next Gen crew were in the background and their only scenes made them appear dumb.
Why didn't Soran just hijack a shuttle or take over the Duras sisters' battle cruiser? He's already proven he's pretty smart. Why not mutiny on their ship, and send that off to be smashed to smithereens by the Nexus? It was established earlier on that that's how he joined it the first time.
There's a line of dialogue in the film that indicates he couldn't do that because every other ship that approached the Nexus was destroyed.
Man, those ships sure went downhill from the El-Aurian transports! Yeah, they were getting torn up in the -80 years scenes, but the passengers still got into the Nexus, didn't they? And what does Soran care if the ship gets destroyed? He'd still be in the Nexus!
It's interesting to see Soran has finally made it to the Nexus, even if it is now called Fantasy Island.
Funny that the two Mr. Roarkes proved to be so destructive to Kirk & Co....
Maybe that's a pre-requisite to becoming Mr. Roarke
Always thought Fantasy Island was an alternate dimension anyway...
BrianB, back on June 10 summarized everything bad about this film that I agree with. I've always resented the producers, Berman and his cronies for their thumbing-of-the-nose at the original Star Trek, but killing Kirk was the final straw. I don't even consider this movie as part of the Trek universe, for that very reason.
As for my nits, 1) why is it a retired captain is sent down to the deflector dish to save the ship?Wouldn't Scotty be the one to go, as he's still an active engineer? 2) the whole enter-the-Nexus-and-enter-another-universe is the trashiest of science fiction, lowering credibility to Lost In Space standards. 3) Why launch a brand new starship with (apparently) just a bridge crew, AND without all of its parts, which aren't due to be delivered until Tuesday??? 3) Is it just me or is Captain Harriman an indecisive, incompetent boob?
'ENSIGN' Chekov could out-think this twit.
It seemed to me that Berman found a way to create Star Trek in his own image, now that Gene Roddenberry had passed up to that great Starfleet Headquarters in the sky. Namely; 1) redesign the ship's uniforms that Gene approved. 2) Redesign the bridge of the Enterprise-D that Gene approved. 3) Destroy the Enterprise-D that Gene approved. 4) Redesign Geordi's eye-implants that Gene approved. 5) Give Data emotions from a chip, eliminating the emotionless character that Gene approved.
5) And worst of all, kill Kirk, one of the greatest creations of Gene (Spock and the original Enterprise being high on the list). SIGH! Is it any wonder why I've only seen this movie twice?
Now Star Trek is in Berman's own image. Boobs and butts... And I'm not speaking of any one's anatomy!
Okay, people, have we forgotten that the same people gave us Deep Space Nine? Things have to change. Yes, Gene left a wonderful legacy. However, if it had stayed the same for the past 8 year since his death, what would be the point? I wouldn't watch it anymore. Neither would you. I thought Generations was all right, and quite honestly if you think that killing Kirk made it horrible then you're just not thinking right. The original cast had to die sometime. Scotty is only alive because of an accident. McCoy may be alive, but he'll never be shown again. Spock was supposed to live this long. Sulu, Uhura, Chekov, Rand, all of them had to go sometime. That is the way of things.
They could have made it a nobler death though, for Kirk (Zorro said it best) and the Enterprise-D. And personally, I really didn't think DS9 was all that good.
Not everybody can go out in a blaze of glory. Kirk made a difference. That's all that mattered.
I will refrain from making any comments about your dislike of DS9 at this time. But really, have you watched it at all?????????????
Well, originally Kirk was just zapped in the back and that was it. But test audiences didn't like it so they went back and shot it differently, to make it a little more meaningful.
Surely when he says "It's the least I could for the captain of the Enterprise" it shows he has made his final, ultimate sacrfice and he's content in the fact someone is continuing in his footsteps, passing the baton over.
Sure, Kirk and the rest of the original crew have to pass on sooner or later, but we DON'T have to see it or like it. To me, Kirk is a hero and a major character in American mythos, like other characters we've all grown up with like Superman, Batman, the Lone Ranger, James Bond. However, you don't see anyone going out to knock them off. I'd rather leave Kirk's demise to my own imagination, and not see it perpetrated by present-day Trek producers that have a lack of respect for the original series, and have been known to admit that they weren't fans of the original or saw very much of it before they started TNG. To quote the Saturday Night Live Church Lady, "So you killed off Captain Kirk after Gene Roddenberry passed away? How con-veeeenient! Now who could have made you do that, hm? Could it have been...SATAN?!"
Last note; DS9, despite being a Berman production, ranks in my top-10 favorites series of all time, Sci-fi or otherwise.
THREAD DRIFT ALERT
I recently re-watched this film on tape, being stuck on something to do, and noticed a couple of neat bits in Kirk's house. When he first walks in, you can just barely see a painting of the old Enterprise hanging on a wall. Soon afterward, the clock that he says he gave to Bones seems to play the infamous theme music from "Close Encounters Of The Third Kind"!
And, back to the old topic, I agree that Harriman is "an indesicive and incompetent boob".
That my two cents.
Hey, Superman died. Besides, death is ugly. There had to be some kind of transition, because we have to face the facts: The original cast is getting old, and sooner or later they're going to die. There has to be some sort of transition.
Nope. There didn't HAVE to be a transition. For whos benefit is it? Original series fans? TNG fans? We're all the same, and Kirk's death only served to alienate TNG from me. Just do a TNG movie, set in the TNG universe, and leave it at that. But, no; they had to 'pass the torch'. As for Superman, he's alive and well, and it was merely a publicity stunt to boost sales; DC never intended to rub out the character and never resurrect him. Answer me this; are you looking forward to Star Trek XII-The Death of the Next Generation, where we see the Enterprise-E blown to pieces and Picard impaled from behind by a new villain called Doctor Dorian? After all, Patrick Stewart, and Brent Spiner et al will be 'old', and a transition film will be necessary. Sorry if I'm sounding too nasty here, but I grew up with the original series, and don't like my heores biting the dust.
If there weren't a transition, then we'd be complaining that they never did one. And we cannot be all the same. You seem to take great pride in saying that you like the original series and that TNG was bad because it abandoned everything that TOS establish (which, by the way, was Rodenberry's idea), while I like the first three series equally (Voyager is #$&*(*&^%^^$#). SO there's a difference right there. To answer your question, I wouldn't mind such a movie, and the next TNG film, if there is one, will probably feature the death of at least Data because Brent Spiner doesn't want to do the character anymore. Geordi might never return, and there is some doubt as to if Michael Dorn will come back.
I wouldn't mind if they killed off some of these guys. As long as it was done well and with the proper touches, I don't think I would mind. I grew up with the Next Generation, but I have no problem with those characters dying. Because, you see, they're not my heroes. They're just characters in a TV show. A good TV show, to be sure, but one must keep in mind that they're just fictional characters. All good things must come to an end. Every new beginning is some other beginning's end. One must be willing to accept change if one wishes to be a functioning part of the new order of things. Well, that's enough with the platitudes. I'm off.
I'm probably bringing this up in the wrong topic, but I want to follow up on MPatterson's reply.
If Dorn, Spiner, and Burton (and the increasingly expensive Stewart) are fed up, then maybe a fourth and final film should be written. Maybe kill someone or better yet, ride them off into their own little sunset and leave it to the comic books and novels to pen some reunion stories. (Speaking of novels, enough with the old Spock, old Scott, and old McCoy reunions on TNG.)
The stage is already set to retire these guys: Picard can settle with the new woman of his dreams, Anij; Worf can be the "Sarek" of Klingon by Martok's side; Geordi can retire with real eyes for watching sunsets or crash on the Dyson's Sphere and get rescued in 75 years (which would muck up Voy's "Timeless"); and Data??? Destroyed in the act of heroism.
As for Sirtis and McFadden, future films won't keep a roof over their heads, so sorrowfully, they should move on. It would be nice to see them in a DS9 &/or Voyager film or even a Voyager episode. It can happen.
Frakes doesn't seem to be fed up. He seems to enjoy the work. So marry Riker and Troi, let them live out their lives on Beatzed and have Crusher return to Starfleet Medical were she worked in season 2.
Besides, making such a tenth film would work because 10 is an even number!
Kirk's death and the destruction of the Enterprise-D are bad enough, but I really feel cheated in not getting the 'transition' film that most fans wanted; Kirk and CREW meet Picard and crew. How great it would have been to see
Kirk and Worf work together, or McCoy and Crusher, or Data and Chekov. THAT would have made it a much better film.
I FOUND A NEW NITPICK IN GENERATIONS!!!
At the beginning of the flick, when the Enterprise B is getting jostled by the ribbon, stuntmen do all sorts of flips over the security panels. One stuntman does a flip towards the camera over the panel and actually lands on a soft blue pad. What's more, you can actually see the pad!
It's on screen very briefly, but you see the edges of it fold up as he thuds on it.
A good flub for the sharp eye.
When Capt. Jean-Luc Picard and Capt. James T. Kirk return from the Nexus and Dr. Tolian Soran encounters Capt. James T. Kirk, why does Capt. Jean-Luc Picard not sneak up and detain Dr. Tolian Soran? Instead, he answers the doctor's inquiry regarding the identity of Capt. James T. Kirk, giving Dr. Tolian Soran enough time to flee.
I would have much preferred to have had Capt. James T. Kirk remain in the Nexus and to forever go where no man has gone before. But that would mean providing a conclusion not involving death. However, could the creators/writers not have it that the Capt. James T. Kirk who died was his "shadow" from the Nexus and not him? By "shadow" I am referring to what Guinnan illustrated to Capt. James T. Kirk in the Nexus. Or was that Guinnan's "shadow?" Now do you see how this may be worked? Thank you.
Kirk, Picard and Soran will suffice. We know who you're talking about unless it's for your benefit or you really have time on your hands and an affinity for full names and titles.
Leave 'im be, wouldja.
I think it's a terrific idea D. Stuart has. Irrelevent, though, as they're never ever bringing Kirk back. Blast it.
When everyone's scarmbling for the saucer section, does no one think that perhaps the escape pods might offer a better chance of survival than half a starship plummeting down to a crash landing on a planet? They can't all be in the other section that exploded; that would be poor design in a starship that has separating ability.
I never thought of that, Chris. A local Fox station played this movie and I got to thinking why was the scaffolding attached into the rocks so loosely? I'd think by the 24th century that they could have much stronger scaffolding, attach it a lot more deeply into rocks or do whatever other safety features they had to to secure them. Then Kirk would still be alive! BTW, that's where I saw this movie, right after the scaffolding with Kirk on it came loose, but I've got it on tape, anyway.
Maybe the rocks on Veridian III are the type where you just can't secure things well to them, no matter what the standard of technology in the 24th century.
Perhaps, but then why secure such shoddy scaffolding there in the first place? They should know how dangerous that could be.
Maybe it was a rush job? Soran didn't have much time on his hands.
Maybe Mr. D. Stuart is a distant ancestor of Lieutenant Commander Leland T. Lynch...
D Stuart having offspring ... now THERE'S a terrifying thought ...
Hey! Maybe we should have a board for everyone's least favorite stuffed shirt... Chief Engineer Lt. Cmdr. Leland T. Lynch!
I realize this is a very picky question, but I really need the answer.
Is the correct title "Star Trek Generations" or
"Star Trek: Generations".
I've seen reviews list it both ways.
My video box seems to suggest omitting the semi-colon. However, it makes sense to include it.
I keep an inventory of all my tapes, and I want to make sure my entry of this movie is correct.
Technically it's Star Trek Generations because that's how it appeared on screen - big Star Trek, then Generations smaller underneath with no colon.
But most newspapers add the colon because it looks silly without it.
Christopher Q,
Regardless of which way it is, we recommend omitting the semi-colon in all cases, and either using a full colon or nothing.
So, DS9 starts out with the newer uniforms, but here, the Enterprise crew sort of half-and-half makes the transition. For some reason, Worf, Crusher, and Troi, never get the DS9-style uniforms. (Worf later gets the DS9 uniform in "The Way Of The Warrior" (DS9), but then he also switches departments.)
What was the significance of promoting Worf to lieutenant commander that involved a special ceremony? Did La Forge, Data, Crusher, and Troi get this when they were promoted to the rank?
Look at Picard, he changes uniform during the course of the film.
Kirk didn't have to die.
Picard was a wuss when he took on Soran
and he went to the same Starfleet Academy as
Kirk! Picard musta flunked "Self Defense 101"
Plus, why not let Kirk survive then re-enter
the Nexus to live out his "Peter Pan life"
like in STVI...(I love that line)
I think Kirk was going to say "Oh my God"
as if he can't believe he's finally dying after
all the times he's cheated death.
This is a bit belated, but allowing Kirk to live eternally in the Nexus would have been a weak decision. Although Kirk constantly fought death, he also lived squarely in reality. The only Trek regular I could imagine chosing the Nexus over reality is Regionald Barkley. Yet, even he eventualy tries to overcome his addiction to fantasy.
Kirk may have enjoyed a holiday in the Nexus, but as he stated in a TOS episode (paraphraising), "humans were not made for paradise." For all his fighting against death, it was very true to the character of Kirk that he would rather die saving the Enterprise and it's crew than live in some fantasy world that contained no meaning.
As much as I like any character in Trek, if his/her death is done in a meaningful way, it can greatly add to the story and Trek as a whole.
Do you mean Reginal Barclay?
I thought it was Reginald. I'm not sure of the correct spelling, but I could have sworn it ended in a "D."
Oops, yes I meant Reginald.
Ghel - nice observations. I think that was the true passing of the torch right there, when it was Kirk who wanted to live in the fantasy, and Picard had to deliver the classic Kirk speech.
John - the "oh my" was meant to be in reaction to what Kirk saw on the other side. It was actually a well played death scene, though the way he died was a huge disappointment.
Frankly, though, I'd have liked them to have picked up Kirk's obsession with command - and the Enterprise in particular - the same theme evident thropughout the series and several of the movies (most evident in the Naked Time and STTMP). This obsession kept him from having a family. It consumed his life. In many ways Kirk was lonely and bitter. In the Deadly Years Shatner portrays this brilliantly. I'd have liked to have seen these themes picked up - a real characterization, rather than "oh well, time for me to die now, off I go..." Matt Decker's death was the sort of flawed hero's death I'd envision for Kirk - imagine Kirk losing his ship and crew . . .
The thing that REALLY bugs me is why wasn't one
of Kirk's Nexus fantasies the original
Enterprise?
OOOH! Now THAT would've made this movie better!
An appeal to the "Original" Trekkies as well
as the Next Gen "Trekkers"
Great confusion surrounds the building of Starships.
In STTMP we see the refit Enterprise in
DRYDOCK.
In STIII-TSFS we see the Excelsior in SPACEDOCK
In STIV-TVH We see the Enterprise-A in SPACEDOCK
In ST-GEN We see the Enterprise-B in DRYDOCK
Do Starships begin the building process in Spacedock then go to Drydock for the "final touches" or vice-versa?
RE. Oh my:
since we nitpicker's are not allowed to cite non-canonical works, then this isn't really an explanation, but William Shatner's "The Return" puts forward that Kirk said "oh my--" because he could see a Borg Ship moving into the atmosphere high up over Picard's shoulder....
NITS:
Why didn't Worf's panel detect the transmissions coming from LaForge's VISOR?
Would taking Kirk's body back to Earth for burial been THAT BIG of a deal instead of leaving it there on Veridian III?
What kind of metal is Soran's torpedo made of
that it can withstand the heat of the Veridian sun without melting before it gets there? Our sun is pretty darn hot.
Surely a more fitting end for Kirk would have been burial in space, a casket ejected among the stars, the place he devoted his life to?
To quicken the pace of this movie a tad,
they don't give names to Picard's wife or children.
Question: Why wasn't Dr. Crusher the "fantasy wife" for Picard? (OOOH! Now that'd make this movie a lot more interesting)
NIT:
For a man who hates children, Picard sure had enough of them in the Nexus, didn't he?
Funny if Picard's real fantasy was a deserted beach with a bikini-clad Troi.
Maybe Picard is still in the Nexus? Maybe his fantasy was to come out of the Nexus and stop Soran. Though somehow, I doubt it...
Well..actually he IS still in the Nexus..just like Guinan was after she leaves. Seems like EVERYONE who was EVER in the Nexus, still is. Which could lead to some interesting stories/meetings.
Captain John harriman gets my vote for the WORST
Starship captain ever.
During the entire Lakul crisis...from the time the
Enterprise-B receives the distress signal to the
time he decides (with Kirk's help) to actually
enter the energy ribbon... he hesistates....
wasting valuable time to rescue the El-Aurians...
I'll bet more lives would've been saved if he
acted more promptly.
Yeah, the big jessie.
Captain Estaban, late of the USS Grissom had been my choice as worst ship captain, until Harriman graced (?!) our movie screens. The guy was like an overly-cautious game show host, not wanting to take risks, but Harriman...has...to...think...about...stuff....first. Red...um...alert...Ensign Sulu. Please. Thank you.
I read an interview with the actor who played the captain of the Enterprise-B and he thought the only way the character could have become captain was by having friends or relatives in high places who pulled quite a number of strings.
Actually Capt. Estelban wasn't that bad.
I love when he quotes regulations...it's so military.
He just had a lousy, weak hulled ship.
I think they should had a "Miranda Class" ship
(Like the Reliant) definately superior fire-power.
Especially when you figure we haven't made peace with the Klingons yet in STIII-TSFS
In the novel 'The Captain's Daughter' it's revealed that Harriman did get some help getting a command from an admiral...namely his father.
Harriman Vs. Stiles
I thought Capt. Stiles---the first captain for
the "Excelsior" was a tad of a snob.
He talked with this nasaly voice, he filed his nails and was a definate braggart.
(Even though Excelsior was a better ship--technologically speaking---than the Enterprise...
but the Excelsior didn't have the history of the
Enterprise...which can never be taken away.)
The only thing Harriman could brag about is that he had Kirk, Scotty & Chekov aboard.
Worst starship Captain ever? How about Ron Tracey of the Exeter. So caught up was he in his quest for immortality (wait a minute, that's ironic, ain't it?) that he slaughtered hundreds of yangs (Freedom?) and was about to give Kirk and company an early retirement. Let's not forget that he killed Lt. Galloway in the process. (Though as everyone knows, Galloway returned in "Turnabout Intruder.)
Anyone know why Whoopi Goldberg's name appears nowhere in the credits?
Supposedly, she did the movie to be with the rest of the cast, not to add something to her resume.
She probably didn't want her name listed
to save herself some embarrassment from this
sloppy movie.
I concurr.
Actually, I read somewhere that she said she didn't want to steal the movie's thunder. She felt that if her name was in the credits it would obviously make it to the billboards, and then everyone would rush to see "Whoopi's latest movie" which it plainly was not. In any case, whilst it does seem odd to have a superstar go uncredited, it must be remembered that Whoopi Goldberg isn't a face or a name that one forgets in a hurry - anyone seeing the film would have recognised her!
Why is it that whenever this is shown on TV they always cencor out data saying sh** , gimmie a break , the movie has only one curse word in it and they censor it out! Pretty sad.
BrianB on Thursday, June 10, 1999
The Duras sisters deaths were cheap. It would've been more intriging if they escaped like they did in other episodes.
Its cheaper than you think. The scene showing the Duras' ship expoding is a direct copy of Chang's ship expoding in ST6 - The Undiscovered Country.
Well they were both BoP's so why not? Of course they were diffrent classes of Bop, Changs was a B'rel , not sure what the Durasses sisters was a, not sure what it was? anyone know?
Data provides the movie's best line when he says "Oh s**t!", but we've been given the impression in previous movies that profanity has gone out of fashion by this time. Think of Kirk's lame attempts at swearing in STIV ("Well double dumb-a** on you!). And in the novelization of ST:TMP, Kirk learned the word "s**t" from his great-grandfather, implying that swearing was old-fashioned.
But Data does have extensive memory banks and given his new emotion chip that is a bit erratic for him, his positronic brain probably flicked over the obscure reference and out came the word.
"That is a Galaxy Class Starship." We have means to get through its shields and destroy it. So, let's have it out. Two torps, anti-matter weapons that a friend pointed out should have done more damage. But these are Klingon torps. Moving on. Riker, that great tactican, fires phasers once at the scout ship, and then TURNS THE ENTERPRISE AROUND to get away. He has taken away most of the ships fire power and ability to fight back. Also exposes the engines to the Klingons (here let me show my rear to you so you can shoot it up). The first Enterprise had a reverse gear, does the 'D' version leave this out? My response would have been to return fire with every thing I have. I was in the military and if some one had me, but I could hit back, blast them with everything I had or back off fast-not showing my rear to the enemy (or both). Now a Galaxy Class Starship with useless shields against a lightly armed scout ship getting hit with all available weapons? That would have been an interesting fight. At least fire every thing and throw off their aim (the ships shake when hit). These "ladies" took two shots before hitting the port nacelle, not good shots are they.
Also I thought Klingons do not take hostages.
Hey, Brian Thompson of the Bounty Hunter fame on X-Files was the Klingon helmsman who I think said, "Mistress, we are cloaking." Or two actors have the same name. Any one know?
You don't have a girlfriend, do you, Duane?
I have been married to my German wife for 10 1/2 years and we have one daughter. To answer your question, no, I do not have a girlfriend. I just viewed this movie and First Contact within the last week. But I noticed this (the Enterprise turning around) when I first saw the movie with my wife when I was working in Germany for the Army. I even made the above comments to her and some of my friends. Just comes from being an old cavlary/tanker watching the old east-west German border and playing wargames for over 30 years.
Just don't mention the war to your wife...
She cannot avoid me from mentioning WWII around the house. My main military history study has (still is) been on WWII and the War in Europe. We have gotten into several conversations about what happen during that time and the experiences her relatives went through (some died also). She is not much interested in history, but we do discuss social history and reasons Germans voted and/or supported Hitler. We do have disagreements on the social systems of the United States and Germany. Those are some times the interesting "conversations."
To Duane: Romulans are the ones who do not take hostages. ("Sir, the Romulans do not take captives."-Chekov to Commodore Stocker [Charles Drake] in "The Deadly Years")
In the Heart of Glory, the one of the Klingons picked up a child, Tasha says we have a problem, then the Klingon puts the child down. The Klingons are taken away, Tasha says to Worf that she thought there would have been a problem with a child as a hostage. Worf says there would have been no problem as Klingons do not take hostages. Most likely it is not honorable.
That is where I nit the "Captain would make a good hostage," line. Maybe the ladies were dis-honorable Klingons.
According to Kirk in STII klingons do not take prisoners, but the Romulans are the sworn ememys of the klingons and the duras sisters still did business with them. They are only bound by the Klingon code of honor when it suits them. Meaning that they will not do the traditional klingon thing and kill geordi when he is more valuable alive.
But then in ST3, the Klingons took prisoners anyway. So maybe Kirk was misinformed. Then again, Kruge and his band were renegades, of sorts.
Watching this film on HBO Plus yesterday (I caught the last third) made me long for my road not taken, while Picard was in the Nexus.
Would a pressurized champagne bottle (even Dom Perignon) break on impact in the icy cold of space? Shouldn't it have exploded immediately after being sent into airless, pressureless space? Buy stock in Moet now, as they will still be around in the 23rd century (as will Levi Strauss-see Trek V.)
If I was on a ship (plane, etc.) going into free fall, I most probably say "Oh, s**t" too, just like Data.
So long as the bottle is not defective almost any glass bottle and certainly a Champagne glass bottle will be more than sturdy enough to survive vacuum. As you pointed out champagne puts preasure on the bottle already greater than the difference between sea level earth and vacuum.
Yeah, but there's the cork to think about, which can often pop off at Earth pressures when shaken.
That's why the cork is usually "caged".
(We must assume, gentle reader, that the cork was caged when Generations was filmed.)
Maybe a better question would be, how did it get thrown at the ship in the first place? By a humanoid hand, or by mechanical proxy? It followed a trajectory that would presuppose a humanoid hand "threw" it at the ship. And if so, then the thrower thereof would be in a space-suit after exiting an air-lock in order to "christen" the ship. That would be a much greater honor than letting Eleanor Roosevelt whack a bottle against the side of a ship in dry dock.
I have been dying for years to see a bottle of Dom Perignon, just to see if TPTB got the label right. Our local liquor store has it behind the counter, no doubt attributable to its $120-$180 per bottle price. I sheepishly asked the counter lady to see it, stating the reason above. The label in "Generations" was right on target.
Dom Perignon is cheaper, and available to touch, at your local wholesale superstore, Sam's Club or Price Club. Last bottle I bought was $60.
Depends on where you are, of course...here in Pennsylvania, anything stronger than beer is only sold in state-run liquor stores.
During Worf's promotion ceremony, Picard states that if there's one thing he's learned over the years, it's never to underestimate a Klingon. Yet later in the movie, he seems pretty sure of himself when he remarks that Lursa and Betor are probably wondering if a 20 year old Bird of Prey is any match for the Federation flagship.
While Kirk's death didn't move me as much as Spock's in Star Trek II or Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin's deaths in the Star Wars Trilogy, I thought it was handled much better than the deaths of the Aliens survivors in Alien 3(in that it didn't make Kirk's past exploits seem pointless).
I wouldn't mind seeing Kirk again; however, the passing of DeForest Kelley has given Paramount all the excuse they need to never do anything with the original series again(I know, I know, Kelley wasn't in this movie, but this is Paramount's excuse).
Okay...for all they're worth (after about five viewings), my two cents:
I thought the entire bit with Kirk in the Nexus - from meeting Picard to his death - was a tremendous letdown. Here they are, the lynchpins of their respective television generations, two of the most legendary figures in the Trek galaxy...and they're discussing which cupboard the spices are in! This was so not the place for a Cute Moment.
Also, while I don't object to my heroes dying on-screen...I DO require that they go out with more of a 'bang' than is provided by a fall from some rickety scaffolding. (Reducing Captain James T. Kirk's entire raison d'etre to the New Age-y 'did we make a difference' didn't help much, either.)
I also thought the Nexus was a pretty silly plot device, inasmuch - as has been pointed out elsewhere in this discussion - that the movie hinges on Soran getting the Nexus to come to him, when in fact it would be far, far simpler for Soran to go to the Nexus.
I cannot believe Picard lets Data get away with such a flimsy rationalization for this, either. "All ships that have gone into the Nexus have been destroyed", forsooth! Given that ALL the Nexus contacts we've seen thus far (including Soran's) leave plenty of time for humans to get sucked up BEFORE a ship could explode, why isn't the Captain assuming that more than Data's emotion chip has fused?
Anyway, once I heard that line, I spent the next few viewings coming up with less destructive Nexus/Soran collisions. "He's a scientist - why can't he just say he needs a one-man ship to study this phenomenon? Or bypass permission and build/hire/hijack one himself?" came to mind during one. On another, I wondered why, if Matt Decker could grab an Enterprise shuttlecraft and fly it into a weird space anomaly, Soran couldn't do the same?
I thought the opening scenes were nicely staged as a satire of a 20th-century 'photo-op'. ("But it won't be ready 'till Tuesday." "Tough - Kirk can only make it Saturday, and we need to get him and Scott together in the pictures...) After all, you have to assume the creators cope with just this kind of media horde every set redesign.
Incidentally, small adjunct to the above - while the gag is cute, do Starfleet personnel really think in terms of 'Tuesday'? Shouldn't Harriman have given a stardate?
One thing I did absolutely, unreservedly adore (hence the multiple viewings) was Data's struggles with the emotion chip. They just hit all the right notes, and Brent Spiner's performance is letter-perfect. I submit that the scene in which the android realizes...after seven years...that he really does LOVE scanning for life-forms ("Life-forms! Lovely little life-forms! Where-(tap)-are-(tap)-yoooouuuu" is among the top ten funniest moments of the whole Trek canon.
Finally, what purpose did having Picard so upset - and hence completely out of character - serve for all those fans (like yours truly) who were really, really looking forward to seeing the Captain swash and buckle his way across the big screen? (You really gotta wonder about some of the decisions the creators made in this film. Picard's first use of 'Make it so!' is harsh and angry; Data installs the emotion chip; the Enterprise is destroyed. A little frustrated with the old familiar TV routine, were we?)
Speaking of which...who turned off (or at least dimmed) the lights? That is one horribly distracting lighting effect they're using for this movie. Did the Enterprise slip off into the 'Twilight Zone' and nobody noticed?
Ahem...one last little point and then I'm finished, I promise.
So, according to Data, Soran can't just fly a ship into the Nexus becaus the ship would be destroyed. Setting aside all the other reasons why this is unbelievable...did anyone else notice that Soran (and Picard) gets in simply by standing there unprotected on the planet's surface? If he's worried about what the Nexus will do to a ship, what exactly does he think will happen to a human body?
I think what makes Kirk different from other heroes like James Bond, Superman, et al, is that those other characters existed(in comics, literature, etc.) before being portrayed by thespians.
Kirk, on the other hand, was created exclusively for TV(i.e. for an actor to play him). Unlike the other ficticious characters mentioned above, Kirk has only been played by 1 actor. Once Shatner passes on, I honestly doubt that anyone else will ever play Kirk again. Hence, Berman's desire to kill off Kirk in order to give the character some closure.
Even though they killed kirk it would not have prevented him from appearing in another trek movie. If they had wanted to make another origional cast movie they could just set it after star trek 6, but before the enterprise B is launched.
ah, in case anyone is interested, Section31.com and trekweb.com have detailed information and video of the cut material from Generations including the alternate ending.
linkage:
http://www.section31.com/cutscenes1b-1.html
http://talk.trekweb.com/articles/2001/03/18/984945632.html
And this footage also explains why Crusher said to Geordie after they got him back that she had removed the nano probe. It's because Sorran stole one from the borg somehow , and injected him with it, and used to stop his heart to torture him to get him to give him info on trilithium etc.
This is also why he says to the durass sisters "his heart wasent in it" when they ask how it went.
I hesitate to say never, but Berman seems determined not to use Kirk again, especially since Shatner won't be with us much longer!
Alright, Anon ... why can't Kirk do the "Old McCoy Tour" thing in a pilot episode for any succeeding Trek incarnation? (TV or otherwise) They may not even have to use much makeup. (depending on the date of the imagined episode)
If Berman loved the original series, I'm sure he would do something like that. Then again, if he loved the original series, I doubt Generations would've been made at all.
What made Anonymous say that Mr. Shatner won't be with us much longer? Even though he is 70 (not ultra old today) I think his health is still good.
A few you didn't mention.
Picard's brother should have had pets to warn them of the fire. Just how primitive is their technology, that they can't have smoke detectors?
Or fireproof walls? Or walls filled with bags of water?
Guinan says Kirk is the only one who can stop Soran, but what exactly does Kirk do that nobody else could? Throw a few punches? Why couldn't Data or a few dozen Andorian security personell help?
If the Nexus can generate anything, it can generate Wesley.
If McCoy can be still alive in "Encounter at Farpoint" then Uhura et. al. can still be alive as well. The transition from one generation to another doesn't have to involve dying, only retirement. Maybe Kirk & Co. team up with Picard & Co. for one mission, Kirk dies, the others survive, they have a wake and reminisce. That's one more reason not to like this film--we don't see Uhura and LaForge, Crusher and McCoy, and other pairings. Only a few minutes of Picard and Kirk. Maybe the writers weren't imaginative enough to figure out what Sulu, Chekov and Data would have said to each other, but it would have been interesting.
And I'd rather see them than those Klingons. And a movie can be plenty interesting without a galaxy-wide crisis.
Why did Soran need the bridge? The entire planet is engulfed in the Nexus isn't it? Or,
the Nexus was going to miss the planet by 100 feet? And the highest point on the whole planet is that little hilltop? I don't think so.
So many nits, so little time...
>If the Nexus can generate anything, it can generate Wesley<
Oh, no, anything but that!
Yeah...whose fantasy would THAT be? (Okay, maybe his mom's, but after that...)
If there were really a magic ticket like the one in "The Last Action Hero" that lets you go into a movie, or for characters to come out of one, and I had one then I'd use it to go into this film to kill Soran after Picard returned with Kirk, in order to save Kirk's life.
But then again this of course wouldn't exactly be the first um...type of film I'd first use that ticket on, either, if you know what I mean and I think you do.
But come to think of it imagine all of the cool things you could get from films and TV shows, old and new. Ever wanted one of the phaser props of TOS? The few surviving would cost thousands and thousands, but never mind that! With one of these tickets you could get an actual working phaser that'd vaporize your enemies in a flash! You could get tricorders and all kinds of other goodies! Ya want Luke Skywalker's lightsaber? It's yours! Want Darth Vader's? Well, now let's not be too greedy, shall we? You could even learn how to pilot a shuttle or X-Wing fighter! I'd stay away from the Death Star, though.
The scene showing the Duras' ship expoding is a direct copy of Chang's ship expoding in ST6 - The Undiscovered Country.
No, actually it's the exact same footage. Sorry for the late reply to that particular post. I've not been on this board for quite some time now and only returned after having seen this movie again the other day.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's what Pedantic Pearl meant. PP just worded it wrong. (Pick, pick, pick)