Ok, this is not really a nit. Nor is it stating a fact. Quite simply I need help from fellow trekkers. I am engaged in an age old debate. Gallaxy Class vs ISD. I have currently be beaten down in the debate. I was able to negate every argument but one. It has to do with the ISDs being able to produce Terrawats worth of power. If any of you can assist in this debate, pleae help. The URL for this debate is:
http://www.spacebattles.com/framesforum.htm
click on "vs. debates" and find the message thread titled Gallaxy Class vs ISD

Be ware, the star wars fans are vicious and will hit you with every little fact they have. Further more they have the novels on their side since they rarely ever contradict each other. Be ware, this debate gets ugly...

Alyeska

In the Star Wars sink are a few topics where you can gather a few valuable arguments. And a Galaxy can toast an ISD any time!

I just finished reading over all of those posts. Is it just me, or are most of those people over there just plain crazy? Most of those posts were nothing more than nonsensical ramblings.

Alyeska, you might want to bring up the Galaxy II class from "All Good Things..." which cut through ablative armor-equipped Klingon warships in no time and tricobalt torpedoes which can tear through almost anything. (Or you can hit them with the Borg... :-) )

How Depressing, they closed the board. I had some good Ideas too. I had a great argument for a Galexy class winning (It would also be why the Feds would win if the fought the empire, but that is a different topic ;-) )

I am continueing (sp) the debate piece by piece. At this very moment I am shaking their belief in turbo lasers (they claim a single TL shot is more power full then 10 nukes combined) and have also began an attack on their Neutronium armor claim for the ISDs. Another interesting item, they do not feal that ST tech manuals are to be trusted. Well if any of you have information from the SW novels that shows contradictions, throw it at their faces.

Last item, people tend to get ugly when they feal they are lossing. Well the Gallaxy debate was closed because of personal attacks against me. It seems I have struck a nerve over there and people feal threatened. Even now I have converted 2 of the warsie fans to my side. I also have recruited 2 friends from my ICQ list who are knowledgeable in the area and also are good in science. Lastly, I have a scanner that I can use to copy directly from text to PROVE to them that I am not making up ANY of my information.

May we stand united against our enemies.

Try this argument on for size (and it uses only on film evedense to). I also wish to appologise in advance for any spelling mistakes.

Turbolases are really plasma wepons? Fine. In Relecks, (I can't spell) the episode when Scotty comes back, they had the Enterprise in close orbit to a star and one shot had the Enterprise being bathed in a plasma stream from the star. Apparently this has been going on for some time and they are in no great danger as long as the shields stay up. So if 1/2 of the shield "bubble" can take that kind of punishment for 45 minuts at 40% power, they can take turbolaser fire that is significantly less powerful then a star for several hours. The only way that the Galexy Class would be in any danger would be if the SD could cover half the ship in continuous fire for at least an hour, more than likely it would have to be longer then that.

I don't know about proton torpedo firepower (the Star Wars torps) but it would be less then that of photon or quantum torpedo firepower unless they are significanly larger then Fed Torps. Then again, Proton Torps can only be 2 meters wide because that is how big the tube-of-death on the Death Star was. Judging by the torpedo tubes on an x-wing they are about 18 inches in diameter, much smaller than their Fed counterparts. Therefore they cannot have as much firepower because there isn't the room in the torpedo.

Next is the Neutronium armor (total BS IMHO) Someone on the boards said that they can have it because Jason Alexander's ship had it in Think Tank. OK, Fine, in Think Tank the ship was damaged by fire from the aliens, and nothing said that they had any specal weapons, just standard phasers. So neutronium armor is vanerable to phaser fire. The ship was damaged because the holo-Jason started to flicker so there was *some* sort of failore because of the battle. That eliminates both the weapons and the armor so eventualy the Galexy Class would win.

If that doesn't work then drive a shuttle into the SD's bridge ;-)

If that doesn't work then drive a shuttle into the SD's bridge ;-)
Or one of those torpedo attack ships from "The Best of Both Worlds."

Speaking of "TBOBW," what about using the main deflector dish to channel a huge amount of energy at the SD? According to Geordi and Wesley, it was much more powerful than phasers or torpedoes, and the only reason the Borg were resistant is because Picard gave them the chance to adapt.

You could also make mention of the Galaxy class firing torpedoes at warp before intercepting the SD to take out its propulsion, and coming around for as many passes as neccessary. I don't recall any weapons in the Star Wars universe that can travel at FTL speeds.

Let the attack begin!

1. Sublight speed:
As we all know "full impulse" means 0.25 c which is pretty fast. On the other side a typical X-Wing speed is about 100 m/s (go to the first ST vs. SW board for the calculations) and I think an ISD isn't faster... Even the smallest ST shuttle can outrun an ISD.

2. Manoeuvrability:
ST ships can turn around very fast (for a nice example see the Lakota in DS9's "Paradise Lost"). ISD's are sitting ducks.

3. Torpedoes:
ST torpedoes use antimatter for the big kaboom (photon torpedoes) or nifty quantum effects for the even bigger kaboom (quantum torpedoes). From what I've heard the SW torpedoes use nuclear warheads. Hmmm, in "X-Wing" you need two proton torpedoes to destroy a small Stormtrooper transport.
And then the range: In ST we are talking about millions of km...
Speed: A ST torpedo can fly at warp whereas a proton torpedo's velocity is in the range of a few 100 m/s.

4. Design Flaws:
We all know the shield generator towers on the ISD. Bad idea.
Then it seems that the ISD have no auxiliary control rooms/bridges unlike the ships in the ST universe. (At least it looks like this in RotJ - the SSD crashes into the DS after the bridge is destroyed.)

And it goes on...

But you are forgeting all of that BS about infinite power and armor that is unaffected by antimater, and hand weapons that make bigger explosions than warp cores, and all of that other stuff that appeared in that board. Is there anyone here at Nitcentral that thinks an ISD can take out a Galexy Class one on one?

What's a Galexy Class? :)

I am in real doubt it could. As I stated in arguments over there. The warsies over there claim the ISD does not have lasers, but have plasma weapons. So then I reminded them that the Gallaxy class star ships can sit in the Corona of a star as long as they want. While ISDs can't even survive a solar flare.

So to summarize, Aleyska, here are some arguements ( I would post them over there, but the way they fry new people I don't want to :-) ):

1.) Tricobalt torpedoes and torpedo attack ships that are more powerful than SW weapons and can have onboard targetting computers for more efficient shots

2.) Galaxy class main deflector weapon

3.) The fact that any ST ship can outrun and outmaneuver a SD (actually, Electron, the Enterprise-D's impulse engines can go all the way up to .98c)

4.) SD design flaws, which have already been brought up over at the other board
5.) Neutronium armor is inaffective against even Voyager's weapons

6.) Stronger ST shields

7.) Warp-based weapons that a SD could not outrun

I hope this helps organize our ideas here. If anyone has anything further to add, or any amendments, go ahead and make them.

Actually, I want you guys posting over there. There are several reasons for that. Larger numbers will force them to see the reason. Also when some one is disrupting what has always been considered true, those who you are affecting will hate some one. As it is since I am the one leading the fight over there they mostly hate me. I also have the support of another trekkie on the board by the name of E1701. We both are taking the brunt of the personal attacks.

We need your support and ideas to help us out. They may call you newbies, but you can point them to this website as proof of your knowldge of the subject. They would have to accept that.

Guys, I need your support, and we can make a difference. I have mostly thrown into doubt the power of their weapons. I am still working on the armor and the shields. My next project will be using examples to show just how much of an advantage speed and range is.

Go register and help in the fight.

May we stand united against a common enemy.

••••

;-)
I still cant't understand why the Feds use anti-Deuterium in their torpedoes. Why not anti-lead ? You know, full anti-metal jacket and so...
;-)

I think because the more complex the substanse, the harder is it to create the antimatter dublicate. You can't get any more simple than hydrogen (Deuterium is a more complex version of hydrogen).

Yes, that's clear. It was only a joke.

I've startes posting there and I'm waiting for the attacks to begin I am known as areoborg over there though and I was the one who ran the calcs, and I put up some more calc stuff that hopefully will be more clear and it gives the explosive force for a photon torp in GT (2.147 to be exact). Anyone out there know how much antimatter is in a Quantom Torp?

I think quantum torpedos are the same as torpedos in ordnance carrying ability. The difference is quantum torpedos are like a shapped charge. The focus the entire blast at the detonation point. So unlike the torpedo having the effect of damaging everything around it, the quantum puts the entire force of the blast into a limited direction.

One thing that could be done to deal with certain ships directly is to find the particular element that is most commonly found in the hull of a ship, then load a torp to the max with its anti-matter cousin. Just use normal torps to get through the shields and use the heavier load torp to rip the hull of the enemy ship to shreds. But that would be expensive.

you know, there's an intresting article on this very subject in the 1997 fall issue of Sci-Fi Invasion(an out-of-print magazine). I don't know where you can find it, but it's worth searching for.

What about transporters? Couldnt you just beam a bomb onto the bridge of the ISD? I know about the shield thing, but.....maybe you could beam them right onto the shields, thereby giving the Imps less of a chance to shoot down the torp? Couldnt the Galaxy Class Starship beam the proton torps away?

The ISD main offensive is launching thousands of TIE fighters. As a Galaxcy Class seems to just sit there and fire every so often it could take it out.

You also have to remember that a ISD is a warship that fights mostly starfighters(We havn't seen them in action much), while a Galaxcy class is a ship of exploration, not a warship. A Warbird or Klingon Command ship would turn anything except a death star to shards.

The ISD main offensive is launching thousands of TIE fighters.

No. Not that much. Trust me.

An ISD holds 6 squadrons of fighters totaling 62. Thats a lot less then thousands. Heck, the massive super star destroyer from Return of the Jedi only holds 144 fighters, or 12 squadrons.

I'm going to be charitable here and suggest that proton torpedoes and photon torpedoes are actually the same thing. From the TNG tech manual, photon torpedoes are nothing of the sort (ie photons) - they are matter/anti-matter devices. They essentially ram protons and anti-protons together to create the explosion. From what I've read of SW tech stuff (which is hard to come by), proton torpedoes are very destructive but also very hard to manufacture, which would be consistent if they were M/A-M devices. We know that A-M exists in the SW universe, but in very limited quantities. Also, we've only seen proton torps fired from X-Wings, but presumably larger ones exist for starships. The X-Wing torps might be equivalent to those fitted to the Runabouts.

Note that I don't know if proton torps are M/A-M devices; just that the name, description and power of them seems to make sense. At any rate, it would have made sense for ST to call its torps proton torpedoes, though maybe SW got to the name first.

But you are forgeting all of that BS about infinite power...
--Jason

There's no such thing as infinite power... just ask a physicist about the "ultraviolet catastrophe"

Ultraviolet Catastrophe:

The Ultraviolet Catastrophe was one of the problems that led to the development of quantum theory.

Essentially, either Wien's law or the Raleigh-Jeans formula (I can't remember which) showed that the frequency and intensity of emitted blackbody radiation should increase to the infinite in the UV range as a blackbody's temperature increased. However, the actual results showed that after a peak, the radiation dropped to nearly 0.

Planck's development of the quantum solved the ultraviolet catastrophe.

Tech, don't throw technobabble around.

I suppose I could be accused of throwing technobabble around, but the point was that one of the things wrong with the theory--Wien's law (which took care of one end of the blackbody spectrum you mentioned)--was that it predicted infinite Energy, and they knew something was wrong at that instant.