This is the one with the Iconian Gateway, isn't it? Has anybody made a list of scenes we see? I think I saw the Eiffel Tower!
In the TNG episode, I did make a list of scenes (anybody wanna see it?); they aren't consistent about how long each scene lasts.
About the neutronium being used for the gateway-- Phil pointed out how a teaspoonful would weigh a zillion tons; but, we can just assume they used a lot less than a teaspoonful!<g>

Iconian Gateway Surprise

1 cup subspace flux
1/4 teaspoon neutronium
1/2 tablespoon diced wormhole
2 cups verteron beams

Dip wormholes in verteron beams and add neutronium. Chill subspace flux at -200 degrees and sprinkle over the wormhole mixture. Bake 2 years at 20,000 degrees. Let cool and serve.

Why does the debris from the upper pylon float a bit away from it and then just stop?

Good thing for our heroes that Omet'Iklan got tired of killing for one day (except Weyoun [4]).

Did anyone notice that Omet'Iklan was played by Clarence Williams III. Solid!

Who deleted all of my posts?

Odo'ital, forgive my ignorance but.... who is Clarence WilliamsIII? What else did he act in?

Aloha,

ROBMAN

Clarence Williams III played Linc Hayes in the 70's TV programme called the Mod Squad

Uncle Adam: Allow me to introduce myself, my name is Chris, and I'm the moderator around here. I was the one to delete your posts - and will continue to delete them as long as you continue to post vulgar, profanity-filled messages. If you have a problem with this, please feel free to contact me - my e-mail is cgeorge@nitcentral.com. Please stay on the topic of the board, and please avoid using profanity - thanks!

••••.

I thought the opening teaser should have ended when Sisko says the Defiant crew "You better take a look at this" and they see the shatter upper pylon.
Then roll the credits, then have them run around asking "What happened?" before heading through the wormhole.

Just seems it would have been more effective that way.

Maybe so, but that would have added time onto act one. As the Star Trek Writer's Guide indicates, the acts (bits between commercial breaks) all have to be about 10-11 pages each, whilst the teaser (bit before opening titles) has to set the scene fully and be 3-5 pages long. Essentially, it is all about story timing. Although I did think that the teaser for this show seemed a little bit on the long side.

I've seen some teasers vary wildy in length from about two minutes to about six, I think.

Don't forget the shortest of them all, "Chain of Command" Part I. Didn't that add to Act I?

The guy who played the Jem'Hadar that gets killed after fighting Worf was the same guy that played one of the Klingons on the second-season TNG episode where Riker goes onto a Klingon ship. He also plays the head alien in Rules of Acquisition that Quark is dealing with. Finally, he is the alien bounty hunter on the X-Files.

In the NextGen episode Contagion, Federation technology was incompatible with Iconian technology, so why would the Jem'Hadar steal it?

Sisko, Dax & Bashir beam over to the station. Bashir stays behind to tend to the wounded. Sisko orders Odo to come with them, then tells the Defiant, "Three to beam up." How did the Defiant know Odo was the third person instead of Bashir? (Perhaps the transporter was programmed to only beam up people standing with their hands behind their backs?)

Worf orders an extra large prune juice, but my mom thought it was a rather small glass.

Perhaps this Iconian gateway explains why the Dominion hadn't yet attacked the Federation at this point of the series? The Dominion might have realized the tactical advantage of teleporting troops directly to another world without having to fly through the wormhole and their plans to fix the gateway were thwarted by the rogue Jem'Hadar?

O'Brien suggests using Quantum torpedoes on the gateway, but the idea is turned down because the building is solid neutronium. So what? There are still 150 rogue Jem'Hadar running around down there. Even if the torpedoes don't scratch the structure, the explosions should kill or injure most, if not all, of the rogue Jem'Hadar.

During the drill, when they are trying to find where the third guard is lurking, I wondered why they didn't just sweep the room with their phasers? That would either take out an invisible guard, or force him to attack.

The pledge of the Jem'Hadar is "From now till death.", but later when they prepare to go on their mission Omet'iklan says that they are now dead and won't get their lives back until the mission succeeds. (Possibly a Universal Translator problem. The pledge may actually have been, 'from now till I'm a decomposing chunk of flesh' and the mission pep talk was 'if you don't succeed, commit suicide!' and the UT had trouble making the distinction.)

This one is hard to tell, but after Toman'torax is killed there are bubbles flowing through his ketracel-white tube. I suppose the injector might still be working even though 'Tom' is dead, or maybe the tube is just a diversion to give an enemy a false target to aim at.

If the gateway is generating a dampening field, then how did the team beam down to the planet?

Stephen: I saw the Eiffel Tower, as well.

On page 375 of the DS9 Guide, Phil wonders how the renegades supplied themselves with ketracel-white. One, it's possible that the leaders of the rogue Jem'Hadar don't need the white, just like Goran'Agar in Hippocratic Oath. Two, perhaps when the Jem'Hadar rebelled they kept some Vorta alive to supply them with white? Later episodes have established that not all Vorta will willingly sacrifice themselves.

As for how will Omet'iklan's Jem'Hadar supply themselves with white now that Wayoun is dead... Maybe the white generator can be used to transmit a signal for a replacement Vorta?

On page 376 of the DS9 Guide, Phil wonders if the Jem'Hadar stop eating when they are fully grown. First, I just assumed that ketracel-white was food. Second, in many species the children eat different foods than the adults. I'm told it's nature's way of preventing competition for the same limited food sources between the adults and children.

Also on page 376, Phil wonders about the dampening field put out by the Iconian gateway. Actually we don't know that it is put out by the gateway, that is simply a guess by the landing party. It is possible that the dampening field was created by the rogue Jem'Hadar, or by any collaborating Dominion scientists.

Apparently the original version of this episode was much more violent...but the censors got a hold of this episode and edited out alot of the violence.

I hate censors.....

I'd like to remind everybody that there's a
seven-volume series of novels called Gateways, about the Iconian Gateways. So we can re-watch this episode to find any inconsistencies.

The novels are not considered canon by the creators, so we can't really use them.

I'm loving the New Frontier book, Cold Wars, so far. The Iconian characters, both called Smyt (one male, one female), are really bastards. (I don't know if it's a shapeshifter assuming both roles, or why they're both called Smyt, but the ending will probably clue this in.)

But I was very dissapointed that the final book in the series is a compilation of the conclusions to EACH book in one volume, and I'm not paying $24 just for the 36 pages of the New Frontier portion. I hope Cold Wars doesn't end in a way that requires me to read that portion, and that there aren't any major shakeups to the NF status quo in that conclusion. When I told this to Peter David, he said "That's why God invented libraries", but I want the entire NF saga on my bookshelf at home. I hope I'm not missing anything.

I don't know why startrek/paramount don't do that. Babylon 5, Stargate and Star Wars novels are all canon if authorised by heir respective creators. Just goes to show what kind of corporate shills paramount is.

Babylon 5 lasted five or six seasons, and ended. It spanned one show and the TV movies based on it, and doesn't have the volume of novels coming out every month. Stracynski can pretty much peruse that material himself for approval. Crusade isn’t around, and he seems to be focusing to some degree on his Rising Stars series.

Ditto for Star Wars. There were only 3 movies, and two Ewok TV movies, so there wasn't a lot of material made (nor that much scheduled to be made) that liscened material writers would have to tip toe around. Again, George Lucas, or someone appointed by him, could look over the comic book and novel proposals for approval, because there's not a big chance of "Oh, we're doing that story for an episode next month". Even the three newer movies will not present big obstacles.

Trek spans five tv shows and nine movies over 35 years. Star Wars on the screen will span about 12 hours when the last movie comes out, maybe 15 or 16 if you count the Ewok movies. Trek, by contrast, will span about FIVE HUNDRED and SIXTY by the end of Enterprise's first season and the next and last TNG movie. It has shitloads of novels coming out every month, and Rick Berman and co. are too busy to approve everything, and it would be unfeasible for the novels or comics to become canonical, because then it would give the novel and comic writers equal power to determine canon, which would handcuff the writers of the TV shows and movies even further than they already are, which would be an example of the tail wagging the dog.

The medium in which the primary source material is produced has to have greatest amount of freedom to write what they want. The liscenced material has to be content with working in the format of "fill-in" story. It wouldn't be write to let a novelist kill off a regular, for example, because the novelist shouldn't have the power to determine the course of major status quo premises on the show. Even if it's little stuff, like background details, it would step on TV writers' toes.

For example, in Imzadi, in which Peter David depicted Riker and Troi's meeting and tempestuous relationship on Betazed ten years before Encounter at Farpoint(TNG), they parted ways sadly. After apparently breaking up with Riker because her morther ordered it, Riker drowned his sorrows in real liquor, slept with another woman that he wasn’t in love with, and after Troi came to her senses and realized she should do what she wanted and reunite with Riker, she found Riker and the girl together, and it was so awkward, it made reconciliation impossible. They then met at a Betazed art museum, and Riker was facing a piece of art while searching for the right words to say, but then he turned around, and Troi was gone, having fled.

But later in Second Chances(TNG), it was established that they last spoke before Farpoint at Jalandra Falls, and planned to meet during Will's next shore leave, indicating all was peachy when Will left Betazed.

Now I hated that episode, and rationlizers can say the museum was the "Jalandra Falls Museum" to incorporate the two locations, and I LOVE Peter David's stuff, but that's not the point. With all the hundreds of novels out, the TV writers would run into obstacles left and right every time they typed a line of dialogue on their word processors. Plus, if they recognized novels as canon, they'd have to make all sorts of references to things that people who don't read them never saw onscreen. For example:

From Star Trek First Contact:
Picard: "We have to go up against the Borg again."
Riker: "Too bad Captain Korsmo isn't with us. We could sure use him again against the Borg."
Data: "It is a pity he was killed in that battle we had against the Borg and the Planet Killer a few years ago."
Home viewer: "Huh? What are they talking about? Who's this Korsmo dude they're talking about? There was another Borg battle between The Best of Both Worlds and this movie? Where? When? I never saw it! And the Planet Killer from TOS was in it? What the hell--?

Not having read Peter David's Vendetta, the viewer would be confused.

Personally, I think only the really GOOD STUFF should be made canon, and I'd be satisfied to make Peter David's stuff canon, but that's because that's my taste. Others would want their favorite Trek authors made canon, and I wouldn't like if someone made references to allthe other novels I don't read, since I only read Peter's, so that's the way it has to be.

I do know that if I were a writer on DS9 or the NextGen movies, I'd make references to Captain Calhoun and the Excalibur in Thallonian space, as a little touch make New Frontier canon, but that's all I could do. And if I mention the names of characters he created for NF, like Kebron or Soleta, Paramount would have to pay royalties to Peter, and while I don't know how much they are, he told me that the royalties from just one episode of a New Frontier TV series would be enough to put all three of his daughters through college, which means it's a lot. It's why making Archer's Vulcan officer T'Pau from Amok Time was impossible, let alone all the references to novel material, or a NF show.

I share you sentiment in principle, Anon, but it's an unfortunate fact of Hollywood.

I think that we should make Ratliff's stuff canon!

Actually I don't see why it would have to be such a heavy handed reference to a novel. Babylon 5 had several novels set during the run of the series that referenced minor things said in the back ground and the show referenced some minor things from a novel that didn't matter too much until I got the novel after the episode. Written properly the novels and series could intermesh quite nicely without leaving the viewers onfused (except for those less armed in a battle of wits like Berman seems to like writing for. Ah the dumbing down of Trek.sigh.) Proper writing and planning can make the difference. Babylon 5, and Star Wars both were planned out far in advance. Star Trek has just been winging it and making things up in general as they go along. There were no grand story arcs in Trek until DS9 and a few short ones in TNG/Voyager. Enterprise may have a story arc but I just can't bring myself to watch it. Babylon 5 had a story arc outlined from the premiere episode to the grand finale. The novels were authorized as a part of that outline due to the fact that the outline had definate distinct boundaries. ie this character cannot get pregnant die or otherwise go missing until this point in time. With Trek Paramount is just going to try and ride this cash cow for a as long as they can making trash up as they go along. I didn't think SG-1 had novels that were canon (actually I hav'nt seen that many novels for SG-1 anyhow.) and i hav'nt been watching it much anymore either.

Luigi as for the authors I don't really have a favorite but there are several novels I would like o see brought in on an individual basis regardless of authors. I would list a handful but I'm at work and don't have that much time.

Anyhow authorized or not the novels can be an excellent part of the tapestry of a tv series' mythos. Better that they be authorized but oh well.

Lolar Windrunner: Babylon 5, and Star Wars both were planned out far in advance. Star Trek has just been winging it and making things up in general as they go along.

Luigi Novi: That’s precisely why it can’t be done. If they give authors the ability, for example, to establish what’s going to happen in Enterprise or even in the post-Sisko DS9, then what happens if, say, they make a movie after the upcoming TNG movie with TNG, DS9 and VOY characters that takes place partially on DS9, that say, requires there to be no Andorians on the station? Because there is a new Andorian character on DS9 in the post-Sisko DS9 novels, the writer of that movie wouldn’t be able write that script freely. Could he find a way around it? Sure, but why should he? To satisfy a small portion of the audience that reads that set of novels, as opposed to the larger audience that watches the show and goes to the movies?

You say a novel can make a light-handed reference to background material. Fine. Imzadi did this. So when the writer of Second Chances(TNG) handed in his plot, Rick Berman should’ve said, "Oh, sorry, they did a story in one of the novels that contradicts this stuff." Not only could he not possibly remember all the stuff established in novels, (at best, he’d have to hire an archivist to keep a novel Encyclopedia to keep track of all the info established in the novels—thus spending more money), he’d have to give equal power to staff writers and novel authors, which wouldn’t be right.

If the writer on a monthly comic book takes a vacation, and doesn’t write the comic that comes out one month, the editor needs a "fill-in" story. He reaches in his/her drawer and pulls out a script that was submitted for such an occasion. Fill-in stories cannot disrupt the status quo in a way that would contradict the plans the regular writer has for the series. He can’t kill off the main character (unless he comes back to life at the end of the story) marry characters, etc.

Writers of the licensed works should have to work under the same constriction, and if a future story contradicts material in an older novel, it wouldn’t make sense to give deference to the novel. If they did, ST First Contact couldn’t be made the way it was because it contradicts material from the novel Federation by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. If they recognize Peter David’s Vendetta, then when Picard says in the beginning of First Contact,

"The moment I have dreaded for nearly six years has finally arrived. The Borg, our most lethal enemy, have begun an invasion of the Federation. And this time, there may be no stopping them",

then Picard’s line would have to be changed to reflect the fact that there was a major Borg offensive in Vendetta sometime between BoBW and ST FC. How would this work? Would an archivist of the licensed material have to review the script for this? And these are just the little details I can come up with off the top of my head, Lolar. Can you IMAGINE all the stuff that would have to be changed or altered given ALL the novels and comic books that have been produced? This wouldn’t be a problem simply if there were "grand story arcs" or not.

Lolar Windrunner: Enterprise may have a story arc but I just can't bring myself to watch it.

Luigi Novi: What does your choice to watch it have to do with whether the Enterprise novels should be made canon?

Lolar Windrunner: Babylon 5 had a story arc outlined from the premiere episode to the grand finale. The novels were authorized as a part of that outline due to the fact that the outline had definite distinct boundaries. ie this character cannot get pregnant die or otherwise go missing until this point in time. With Trek Paramount is just going to try and ride this cash cow for a as long as they can making trash up as they go along.

Luigi Novi: Ahhhhhhhh. So you’re feelings about the quality of the franchise and the agenda of Berman and co. is biasing your view on the canon/non-canon question? It seems that last comment is getting a bit off-track.

Lolar Windrunner: Luigi as for the authors I don't really have a favorite but there are several novels I would like o see brought in on an individual basis regardless of authors.

Luigi Novi: And as I was saying, you have your favorites, and I have mine. But on what basis will material be judged? On the basis of what Lolar Windrunner and Luigi Novi like? Doubtful. Should they take a poll? Judge by which novels has the best sales? I know at least some of Peter David’s would be up there (although even things like The New York Times Bestseller List can be manipulated).

And again, what happens if someone later writes an episode that contradicts that material? Should he be forced to change it?

Lolar Windrunner: Anyhow authorized or not the novels can be an excellent part of the tapestry of a tv series' mythos.

Luigi Novi: I agree 100%. I’d give my left nut for a New Frontier TV series, or for Imzadi to be made into a movie. Even Marina Sirtis told me at a convention that she thought it would make a good movie. But neither will likely happen.

That is true that the novels will probably never be accepted in the star trek universe. I concede the point that I may be allowing my emotions to color my perceptions of paramount and Bermen Inc. But allow me to try and rephrase what i was saying. (sometimes the sugar and caffeine get ahead of the brainwaves.) A universe that someone creates such as the Babylon 5 Universe from the mind of JMS can be either a unified whole with everyone woring together to weave a grand tapestry of stories making a compleate picture. Or it can be something like the Roddenberry Trek universe where there is a general boundry that cannot be crossed but stories are told somewhere within those boundries. This tale is real while that is a myth or fantasy. This happened that did not. But there is still a basic backbone that all of these tails are hung upon. And then there is the Berman Trek Universe (which I do separate out because it "feels" different.) where it seems IMO that the boundries are much looser and the stories may contradict themselves or not upon the whims of the powers that be. It seems like JMS or Lucas, since they planned and outlined their universe, are able to allow novel and comics writers to share in the weaving of their univerese the way a clothmaker can draw a pattern and allow an apprentice to fill it in. I have seen all of the star wars movies (even the Ewok ones) and read a few of the novels. But the Star Wars universe is rich enough I don't miss much. i have seen every B5 Episode and the In the Begining movie. I have read many of the novels. And like the Lucasverse this universe is rich enough that the novels are like the icing on a donut. still sweet without it but just that much extra. The Star Trek universe denies a very rich part of their existence by not choosing a trusted individual to oversee the potential scripts, novels and comics to make sure that they are all sharing the vision. I sincerely doubt that Lucas and JMS read each and every submission themselves personnally, but have a person (or persons) to watch over that and report to them. Paramount is a large enough corporation that they could afford to do the same. And yes I will admit that my feelings for Paramount, Berman and the entire trek franchise have become more cynical over time as IMO quality has been sacrificed for the most money that can be made. So I guess it just comes down to the way the universe was first created and the Great Maker's wishes as to what shall be considered reality. (doesn't it always? ;-) )

Still so biased.

So Gene Roddenberry's "Universe" never had any contradiction? Ha!

And you seem to be missing the point. But since you are being very biased, it doesn't matter. You will always be biased against Trek because of your Babylon Nine, Star Wars ••••.

Ah Rene nice to see you are your normal charming self.

I will not get into the Babylon 5 Deep Space Nine rip off argument as to who ripped what from whom.

And I did not say that Roddenberry's trek had no contradictions I meant it had less, fewer not so many. If it seemed like it then perhaps there was some miscommunication.

I am not biased against Star trek. The Original Series was excellent, The Next Generation was Very Good while Deep Space Nine was a decent show until they started the war arc when it improved greatly. The TNG movies have been very lame IMO especially Insurrection. It has always been about the focus of a series for me.

I wish you well Rene in your quest to develop tolerence, politness and etiquette. Good luck to you.

Hey Lolar aint you the one whos always sppouting off about thaty fasa ••••. Get over it they lost their liscence cause they went too far off topic just like this thread. You cant fight the corps berk so just cut loose and enjoy Enterprise.

Yes I am the one who happened to like the way that FASA interpreted certain elements and expanded others from the Roddenberry trek Universe. Unfortunately FASA lost their licence due to creative differences with Paramount over TNG. Since rather than totally recreate the universe, FASA extrapolated from what had already been and projected it into the trek future while Paramount wanted a completely new and different setup. Also FASA has had some financial dificulties and has had to cut back on their product line.

Ah...no wonder you are so biased. Well, get over it. FASA does not own Trek. Paramount does. The novels are not canon because there are too many to keep track of.

Grow up!

Anyone else see a bit of a contradiction in someone posting as Anonymous telling someone to "grow up"? Sorry, I just HATE that expression, which is almost always used as an attack when the person has no more creativity in reserve. Anonymous, please, PLEASE, choose a name to post with, one that isn't already in use, preferably.

And Get a Life!

Anonymous I realize that Paramount owns the Trek franchise. FASA had a licence to use elements from Trek. They based many things on canon and extrapolated for others like I said. There are quite a few novels but Paramount could have set up on office or individual responsible for novel continuity control. I believe this thread has gone far enough. Each to their own opinion and until it becomes an established Paramount Corporate fact then the way things will be will be the way they say it is. And you and I and everyone will still have our little private realities of what we want.

PS. Anonymous I am pushing 30 and quite grown up (at least in public ;-) )

Am I the only one who, upon seeing the title of the episode, yelled "No! To the PAIN!"

Err? I don't get it.

Rene, see "The Princess Bride".

Of course Worf wasn’t there. He at his regular job, being in Sisko’s bathroom holding the toilet paper.
When the Defiant first locates the damaged Jem’Hadar ship, Worf says that it could not be the ship that attacked the station, and then tells Sisko that Kira said that the ones who attacked DS9 used a transport ship. Why is Worf telling Sisko this? Sisko was there when Kira said this, so he didn’t need to be informed of this by Worf, and Worf, for that matter, wasn’t even there! This line should’ve been given to Dax, or to Sisko himself.
But I could’ve done without the "En garde, moi Capitane!" line from Worf
The swordfighting scenes in this episode, particularly the ones with Worf, were great!
Union rules regarding swordfighting scenes?
During the swordfight inside the bunker, a band of Jem’Hadar renegades attacks the team, and Dax tells some of them to go on ahead, and that she’ll hold them off. Worf, wearing Odo disguised as a duffel bag, a gold-uniformed Starfleet officer (presumably a security officer), and a Jem’Hadar go ahead further. Look closely as the shot of the three characters as they proceed through the next doorway. Worf slices up a renegade walking through the doorway as he comes into view. Now look at that next shot. Worf and the Jem’Hadar each bring down another renegade. But what the hell is that other Starfleet guy doing? It looks like he’s stabbing the Jem’Hadar on his own team in the back! I guess choreographing multiple characters in the same shot in a fight scene is difficult, but why didn’t they just get three renegades instead of two, so that Worf, the Jem’Hadar and the Starfleet guy would each have someone to fight, or even better, just get rid of that security guy?
Yeah, really. And earlier, he was masquerading as Dax’s phaser rifle, just to get a cheap thrill every time she pulled the trigger
After taking out several Jem’Hadar in the bunker in Act 5, a Starfleet engineer is seen sitting up against a wall, wounded. Worf says they’ve waited long enough, and throws down the beige duffel bag around Worf’s shoulder, which morphs into Odo. Odo takes out three more Jem’Hadar. Okay, so why did they wait at all? Couldn’t Odo have taken out some Jem’Hadar up until know, and maybe saved that Starfleet guy from being wounded? Was there some point to his masquerading as Worf’s duffel bag other than for the benefit of the viewer’s surprise? Hell, by being a duffel bag, he was more vulnerable, since if he showed the renegades who he was, they might not have attacked him!
But at least he’s not sitting in a barcalounger reading a magazine and drinking a beer like on last week’s episode
At the end of the episode, Weyoun beams down with a security officer. In keeping with the laid-back attitudes of security officers in Trek, his phaser is in his holster, and his hands are behind his back.
I guess they’ll write off those rifles as a deductible
These Starfleet guys of ours are a bit slow on the uptake. At the end of the episode, after the Jem’Hadar say their good-byes, they shroud, and run off with the Starfleet phasers that the Starfleet officers gave to them! Oddly enough, none of the Starfleet guys seem to realize it or care.

It clashed with his Jem’Hadar sword. And for that matter, with Odo.
Why doesn’t Worf have his baldric on the planet in Acts 4 and 5?

Even cavemen carry long sticks to club stuff with
For that matter why don't the starfleet guys carry swords or knives or any kind of low tech weapon that doesent need power or ammo.

I love the look on Weyoons face as the Jem'hadar give their pledge, his look says "Give me a break".

There's been discussion of nonlethal means of warfare which could be used in this or any other episode of Trek (or Bond, or any other action-adventure movie.) But usually if it's used, it's used for comedic slapstick but it could be serious.
They could use mace, anaesthetic gas, adhesives, super-slippery substances, etc.
In the Enterprise Ferengi episode they did use a knockout gas but not very plausibly.
In "This Side of Paradise" Kirk and Spock use hypersonics, but these are very rare exceptions.
In another DS9 they go to a planet where somebody's using a device which generates a field which suppresses the use of higher technology. That would have been useful. Would it have deactivated whatever was preventing the use of high tech on this planet?

Hope Jadzia is prepared on their wedding night when he carries her over the threshold
Don’t ya just love the way how at the end of the episode, after laying the bomb at the gateway, Sisko and the others meet back outside, and Worf, carrying a wounded no-name on his shoulder, just deposits him on his feet so that he can fall to the ground, and Worf doesn’t even bother trying to catch him or lay him down gently?

After seeing DS9's damage, all I could say is "HA! So much for Sisko's rousing speech: "We'll be ready for 'em!""

Luigi Novi: Hell, by being a duffel bag, he was more vulnerable, since if he showed the renegades who he was, they might not have attacked him!

Yeah, something tells me these guys don't exactly "live for the Founders" anymore.

NOTE: This episode marks the first time we see one of the Weyoun clones.

I wish they'd followed up on the destruction of the upper pylon...it presumably would be a big thing, having a huge chunk of the station destroyed and hundreds killed or injured, but next episode, nope, all's well.


I love the way Worf drops that security guard at the end...


Seems very good timing on Eddington's part, to defect just before most of the station's Starfleet security force gets sliced up and/or blown up in this episode...


Weyoun got down to the planet awfully soon after the explosion at the end...it's less than ten seconds, isn't it?

Defiant tactical officer: "We're detecting a powerful explosion in the vicinity of the Gateway."

Weyoun: "To the transporter room! Woooosh!"

And he was gone.

Another difference between Star Trek and Star Wars: SW is frozen. The chances of a post-RotJ movie are nil. Therefore, the novels can be canon because they are the ONLY way the universe lives on after episode 6. There's no danger of a movie down the line that will be saddled with baggage from novels. ST, on the other hand, is an expanding universe, and making novels canon will shackle any future movie or TV series, since the chances of this are quite high.

Plus, how could you suddenly "flip a switch" and make all novels canon? Is it fair to previous authors to say, "Sorry, but you wrote too soon. IF you'd waited, your stuff could be canon." But, at the same time, they can't retroactively make all novels canon, as there's no way to reconcile novels like "Strangers from the Sky" and "Dark Mirror" with established Trek.

When the JHs were putting their phaser rifles to its "maximum setting," there were no buttons where their fingers were pressing. In Return to Grace, when Kira was comparing the Fed and Cardi rifles, she ran her finger down the backside of the rear handle when saying "16 beam settings." I believe the only place where the setting can be adjusted on a type III is on top above the forward handle, but I haven't consulted a tech manual in a while.

Although we know very little about the Iconians, for those of us who rely primarily on the eps anyway, I think the gateways are a more believable means of transporation than the transporters are. There is a board on this site where many people find transporters impossible technology, but the gateway is sort of like the Stargate without the need of another on the other end.

This episode was directed by the actor who played Lt Commander Geordi LaForge on Star Trek The Next Generation.

I thought it was directed by the host of Reading Rainbow?

Don't be silly, everyone knows rainbows can't read... who do you think you are? some kind of smart alec?

I thought it was directed by the guy who played Kunte Kinte?

Weren't there 3 people who played Kunta Kinte?

This episode was directed by three different people? Gee, I wonder what the union had to say when it was time to list them in the credits.

They hope the refresh rate on Levar's contacts doesn't catch all the frames that the TV broadcasts at so the other two names (which are listed) just aren't seen by Levar.

Luigi:
"Worf and the Jem’Hadar each bring down another renegade. But what the hell is that other Starfleet guy doing? It looks like he’s stabbing the Jem’Hadar on his own team in the back!"

It looked like he was stabbing the enemy Jem'Hadar from under the Jem'Hadar friendly's arm.

In his review of this episode the Chief noted that the gateway in Contagion (TNG) didn't have a dampening field since Picard had no problems firing a phaser in there.

At the risk of being lynched for nitpicking the Chief I have to point out that Picard never fired a Phaser in Contagion - that was Worf destroying Data's tricorder with his phaser.

Worf and the Jem’Hadar each bring down another renegade. But what the hell is that other Starfleet guy doing? It looks like he’s stabbing the Jem’Hadar on his own team in the back!

He must the type to PK a lot in MMORGS.

Cybermortis - At the risk of being lynched for nitpicking the Chief
We actually have some boards nitpicking the Nitpicker's Guides. Check the ClassicTrek Sink, NextGen Sink & DS9 Sink to find them.

Is it just me, or did this version of Weyoun seem awfully cynical and tired of everything about his job as overseer of the Jem'Hadar? He didn't even seem to do that good of a job ordering them about. It's obvious the Jem'Hadar barely respected him, which leads me to wonder just what it is/was about the Weyoun clones that they'd done that made them such appallingly bad leaders.

The crowning moment of amusement was how Weyoun was just about rolling his eyes through the entire disposition of ketracel white. You gotta admit, for being able to control a people whose entire existences revolve around the idea that the agents of their gods (the Vorta) are the key providers of their life sustenance, it's probably a bad idea for a Vorta to look too cavalier about the ritualistic dispensation of the ketracel white.

David on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 5:10 pm:
Is it just me, or did this version of Weyoun seem awfully cynical and tired of everything about his job as overseer of the Jem'Hadar?

I'ts not just you. I watched this episode early this morning on the Horror channel (UK Freeview 70), and during the First's pre battle speech, I noticed Weyoun's eyes shift towards O'Brien, as if to say 'Can you believe this?!'

By the way, I will be adding an entry for this episode to my Explaining Errors in Star Trek Wiki sometime today!