What is life like for 24th century Humans on Earth who don't join Starfleet???

Since, virtually all Mental/Physical diseases have been eliminated, and Replicator Technology makes food available for everyone, and humans have controlled mother nature, Earth is a Paradise,
So how do 24th century humans on Earth. who don't join Starfleet or any Space Exploration, how do they pass their time???
How do they keep from getting bored out of their skull..

Has this ever been addressed?

They post at Nitcentral!

They play chess, act in plays (theater), engage in interspeices dating, practice the Trombone and Violin, cook (Sisko's), write, study archaeology, diplomatic relations like Sarak did (thats not space exploration)...

Don't forget all the Medical research that goes on; the genetic replicator and the super immune system children as well as creating androids...

If money doesn't exist in the 24th century, do people work??

Of course. You think a technological and industrial base large enough to produce starships came out of nothing?

Anyway, I believe they don't possess physical money. Which makes sense, since more and more currency these days doesn't physically exist, but instead resides in computer databases.

I certainly agree. While most "work" in the 24th century will be more thinking and less physical, although there will still no doubt be physical labor no matter how advanced society becomes, there will still be a need for work of some sort. And already we are become a "money" less society. In my own life I rarely wind up carrying cash and use either a bank or credit card for my purchases. And a majority of purchases are only transferring bits of data from one encoded account to another with no actual physical "money" exchange occuring.

Picard said that "We work to better ourselves."
So who's job is it to take a plunger to the toilet?! I presume that such a task would still exist (unless the matter is vaporized instead of flushed.)

Even than someone would have to fix the vaporizor when it broke.

O'BRIEN!!!

Nothing about 24th century Earth makes much sense. It's all a bunch of platitudes that pass for a vision of the future.

From "In the Cards":

Jake: We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity!
Nog: What does that mean, exactly?
Jake (flustered): It means...! It means, we don't need money.

And just before that...

Nog: It's not my fault that your species abandoned currency-based economics in favour of some... philosophy of self-enhancement.

This essay claims the TNG Trek Federation has gone Communist. I'm not sure I entirely agree...

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Trek-Marxism.html

I believe that the guy that runs that site is pretty intelligent. Whether he's correct or not, though, I've always had the impression that he's pretty pro-Wars and anti-Trek.

Actually whats kinda funny is that with all the comments and stuff in next gen that money doesnt exist and that people are motivated by thigns other than greed it does kinda sound like true communism is at work in the federation. Definately not capitalism as thats the ferengi and marxism/socialism would be the klingons (maybe).

The problem is that we don't get to see enough of how the civilian markets and such operate in trek. But with replicators and such being able to make just about anything as well as the major energy surplus the federation must have with anti-matter etc...

My issue with that guy is that he's basically imposing his interpretation on Trek, rather than deriving it from evidence on the shows. (And he also seems to really dislike Trek in general, so he seems to finding ways of justifying that dislike.)

Anyway, there is definitely property in the Federation. Kirk's cabin, for one thing, in Generations ("I sold it, years ago."), not to mention Picard's vineyards, Sisko's Creole Kitchen, among others, show that people still have personal residences and businesses. And I don't think they merely "possess" them either. The other problem is that we see the lives of Starfleet officers to the almost complete exclusion of civilians. While Federation citizens definitely don't have cash, they do have some sort of credit - Vash has to buy her way to Risa, for example. My guess is that there's some sort of ridigity built in to this credit... it's hard to say exactly.

Otherwise, certainly the writers often give the impression that the Federation isn't far off from a military dictatorship, given the presence of Starfleet in, well, everything. But this seems more like an oversight of the writers (in fact, that's definitely what it is). What I don't care for is people who get all offended by something in a TV show about a fictional universe.

Here's another site ranting about the terrible things in Trek. This page has to do with the idealogy, but he has 8 other pages on what's
wrong with Trek.

http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/trek/9.html

He has another page on continuity, and asks whatever happened to the android-making device in "What are little girls made of" and other neato things from various episodes.

Another issue with those guys is that they take one aspect of one episode and use it as a criticism of everything about Trek in general (such as using the Bringloidi of Up the Long Ladder(TNG) as an example of "unconscious racism" throughout some five television series (and one animated series) and ten movies).

An interesting accusation, given that Maurice Hurley, himself an Irishman, conceived their look. As for Michael Wong, well, he appears to be educated and knowledgeable in the diverse areas necessary to participate in the discussions on his site, and he certainly cites evidence in episodes or movies that support his viewpoint about Trek, but he also ignores ones that contradict it. For example, in another section of the site where he debates who would win in a war between the Empire and the Federation, he has this to say about phasers:

Michael Wong: When you consider the fact that thin-walled metal packing crates are routinely used for (impregnable) cover during firefights, it's pretty obvious that phasers are useless against certain materials….Yes, phasers are very effective against organic tissue. However, they are also almost totally ineffective against starship bulkheads, thin-walled packing crates, etc. All you need is body armour made of packing crate material, and you're good to go.

This of course, ignores the fact that Valeris dematerialized a large metal pot in the kitchen in ST VI, Ty Kajada dematerialized the container holding Rao Vantika’s essence at the end of The Passenger(DS9), and Riker said at the end of Frame of Mind(TNG) that a phaser set at Level 16 on wide field can destroy half a building.

The biggest overall flaw in Wong’s thesis, however, is more fundamental: In assuming the pattern he sees in Trek is the result of a deliberate and concerted effort on the part of the writers to promote (his word) communism, and not simply the default results of lack of imagination, lack of thought in certain areas, or sci-fi clichés. (Some version of Hanlon’s Razor would seem to apply here.) For example, many science fiction creators have envisioned futures without money, simply because on the surface it seems like a way of promoting a future free of greed or selfishness, and not because it’s a conscious and deliberate statement of a communist sociopolitical ideology. The creators depict disease, hunger, war and racism as having been wiped out as well. Lack of money is probably part of the same underlying optimism rather than a knowing animus toward free market capitalism. But nowhere in his essay does Wong show evidence of one over the other. Fear of pinning down a specific set of tastes or a dated era may explain the lack of more decorations in personal quarters, and the fact that Trek focuses on Starfleet and not civilians explains why we don’t see more personal property or “sports car” starships. Wong merely shows elements like this that may be consistent with a communist philosophy. That doesn’t mean he necessarily divine the intent of the creators as to why they’re there. Let’s look at some of his statements:

Michael Wong: Counsellor Troi and Captain Picard have both boasted about how the accumulation of wealth is no longer an incentive. What they don't explain is why. So if humans in the future no longer desire wealth, then why not? Do they use extremely advanced brainwashing techniques, so sophisticated that no one can resist them? Or have they made the accumulation of wealth illegal, as Marx advocated? The latter seems more plausible.
Luigi Novi: So because they don’t explain why wealth accumulation is no longer a incentive, communism is necessarily more plausible? Isn’t it just possible that Roddenberry and the other writers were simply idealistic, even if a bit overly so? Isn’t it just possible that they were ignorant of the realities of economics, communism and free markets, and that their desire to emphasize the strengthening of altruism and compassion among humans in the future had the unintended effect of having commonalities with communism? (Remember, Wong’s stated Objective at the top of the document wasn’t to show “parallels” or “coincidence” with communism; it was to show that the creators were deliberately promoting it.)

Michael Wong: All external transactions are performed with a precious substance known as latinum. They have "credits", but they don't seem to be as widely recognized as precious metals…
Luigi Novi: We haven’t seen any external transactions, so it’s impossible to conclude this. Most of what we have seen in Trek takes place on a Federation starship, where not a lot of commerce takes place. It’s certainly possible that some commerce takes place, but that we don’t see it because it doesn’t feature into the plot. But there are some possible indicators of it: For example, Dr. Crusher and Wesley are shopping in the Bandi city in the Encounter at Farpoint(TNG). This is a planet that is applying for admission into the Federation, so we know it isn’t ruled by Federation economics. So obviously Crusher had some means to pay for what she’d buy. Or was she just window-shopping, with absolute no intention whatsoever of buying anything that she saw and took a liking to? Picard purchased a Horgon for Riker in Captain’s Holiday(TNG). It is impossible, therefore, to conclude how widely recognized Federation credits are.

Michael Wong: What was the last time you heard about someone buying or selling something from another Federation citizen? People give one another objects, and they might even barter, but they never use their credits to buy things from one another (at least, nothing substantive such as a vehicle, a cottage, a boat, etc).
Luigi Novi: The Hansons owned their own ship, the Raven, as mentioned and seen in The Gift and Dark Frontier, Sisko’s father owned his own restaurant, I believe Kasidy Yates owned the Xhosa, and Picard’s family owned their own vineyards. We don’t see more of this because Trek focuses on Starfleet, and not civilians.

Michael Wong: Even on the mixed civilian/military spaceport DS9, no one seems to have anything but a handful of room decorations and sentimental momentoes. This could arguably be described as a lifestyle "choice" rather than the result of government edict, but it is also quite consistent with the growing list of evidence that the Federation is communist.
Luigi Novi: Notice again that Wong is confusing information that is consistent with a idea with being evidence for it. Yes, it could be a choice. And if we speak of it terms of set decoration, we can again speculate that the creators simply had a lack of imagination.

Michael Wong: The concept of an investment portfolio is so alien to them that when a frozen 20th century tycoon was thawed out in "The Neutral Zone", Picard was completely dumbfounded at the man's desire to check on his portfolio.
Luigi Novi: I agree that this is jarring, and I can only explain it by again postulating that writer Maurice Hurley simply didn’t know any better, and that in general, this was simply the creators’ solution to emphasizing generosity and altruism in the future, a solution that has obvious flaws.

Michael Wong: claim that Kasidy Yates' ship was a private ship, but it was a transport rather than a personal vehicle…
Luigi Novi: And what was it a transport for? Obviously, transportation is a business, and I seem to recall some mention in an episode of Kasidy owning her own shipping business. Thus, it belongs to her. Even if it doesn’t, in what way does this mean that it belongs to a government, and not the owner of that business?

Michael Wong: …and it was probably part of the thriving black market that is endemic to communist states.
Luigi Novi: And the evidence for this probability is…?

Michael Wong: Remember that she paid the crew with latinum rather than Federation credits, and she was imprisoned in a "re-orientation centre" for using it to ferry supplies to the Maquis, even though the act in question occurred outside Federation territory and jurisdiction.
Luigi Novi: First of all, it was never established that it occurred outside Federation jurisdiction. In fact, since we saw the Defiant go after Michael Eddington in For the Uniform, and the Defiant can’t simply go into someone else’s territory, so obviously it was inside Federation territory.

I also do not recall any mention of Kasidy going to a “re-orientation center.” Jake explicitly referred to it as “prison” in Act 1 of Rapture(DS9).

Michael Wong: She wasn't prosecuted until she dared violate the Federation's policy of inhumane neglect toward the Maquis.
Luigi Novi: Notice how here Wong’s prejudices slant his description of the events in the episode in question. Kasidy was transporting supplies to a terrorist organization that had attacked the Federation. Where does he get “inhuman neglect” from?

Michael Wong: Where are all of the ships in the skies over Earth? In fact, in "Paradise Lost", the USS Lakota was the only starship in orbit around the entire planet!.
Luigi Novi: A valid point, which in terms of the history of having Earth defended by only a single ship, is explained by poor writing, and in terms of not seeing ships in the skies over San Francisco, is explained by unimaginative or cost-limited special effects. Not communism. Is Wong here implying that Soviet Russia didn’t have evacuation vehicles when necessary? What does this have to do with communism?

Michael Wong: Of course, some would claim that the desire for luxury and style is a cultural taste, and might have been eliminated in the "enlightened" Federation. That is a plausible argument on the surface, but in every society, there are those who stray from social norms.
Luigi Novi: Again, which episode that focused on such people, and which would’ve shown such possessions, failed to do so?

Michael Wong: Ma Bell is back: The entire subspace relay system is owned by the Federation government, as described in the DS9 tech manual.
Luigi Novi: Even if this were true (and I doubt it), isn’t it likely that it’s merely referring to the Federation subspace relay system? Why can’t there be private ones as well?

Michael Wong: There is no private competitor. Since all interstellar communications must use this relay network, this effectively gives the Federation government total control over long distance communications. Furthermore, it appears that local communications systems are government-operated as well, since the government was able to effortlessly impose a complete local news blackout during the attempted coup in "Paradise Lost."
Luigi Novi: I reviewed that ep. There was no “news blackout” in it at all. There was a power outage in the previous one, Homefront, but that’s it. Parts of the United States and Canada suffered a massive power outage in the summer of 2003. Are Canada and the U.S. communist?

Michael Wong: As another monopolistic Microsoftian measure, all communications start and end with the ubiquitous Federation logo, even on mixed civilian/military stations like DS9.
Luigi Novi: This is because all communications we see are generally on Federation starships and stations. What logo would Wong prescribe to be on those screens? Budweiser’s? And DS9 is not a “mixed civilian/military” station. There may be civilians living on it, but who does Wong think outfitted it after the Cardassians stripped it before pulling out? Naturally, the consoles are Federation ones, and they’ll have Federation logos, since they’re administering the place.

Michael Wong: Quark once ran afoul of this monopoly when he wanted to broadcast advertisements for his bar, and had no alternative but to break into DS9's communications system.
Luigi Novi: Quark wanted to broadcast advertisements not on outlets that he himself owned, but on the station’s administrative outlets, and without asking permission. Naturally, this is illegal, and would be illegal if someone in the military of our good ol’ capitalist country did the same thing. If some cook or owner of a store on or near a military base put up a monitor screen inside the officers’ barracks without asking permission, what does Wong think the result would be? That they wouldn’t remove it and rebuke him because they wouldn’t want to look “communist”?

Michael Wong: High-ranking officers can use secure communications, but no one else seems to be able to encrypt their personal information or communications because any Tom, Dick or Ferengi seems to be able to break into personal files and communications at will.…No matter how far computer technology increases, encryption strength can always be increased simply by adding bits.
Luigi Novi: Again, nowhere does Wong show how this is the result of a calculated attempt to promote communism on the part of the writer, rather than simply a poor depiction of computer encryption. Wong could just as easily focus on any number of other things show in Trek are scientifically or otherwise realistically inaccurate, such as the notion of a counselor doing crew evaluations (as Troi did in Man of the People(TNG) and Lower Decks(TNG)), the notion that there is a particular emotion present when one is lying that would allow an empath to detect deception, the notion that eliminating something causing damage to someone’s body will somehow also eliminate the damage that it’s already done (Unnatural Selection(TNG), Man of the People), the notion that one person mutating is “evolution” (Genesis(TNG), Threshold(DS9), etc. Are these aspects of communism too?

Michael Wong: The Federation nearly became a military dictatorship once ("Paradise Lost"). In real life, such a near-coup would be accompanied by an enormous flood of negative news reports, both from television and radio stations and across the Internet. But in the Federation, there appear to be no independent news organizations or reporting mechanisms.
Luigi Novi: We’ve never seen any such organizations or mechanisms. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist. True, I seem to recall Jake going to work for the “Federation News Service,” but again, that’s more likely a matter of poor writing, and it that doesn’t mean that there aren’t private organizations that do this too.

Michael Wong: While "Balance of Terror" began with a wedding in the ship's chapel, no TNG era ship seems to have a chapel at all. Christianity appears to have been purged from society.
Luigi Novi: First, Roddenberry made it clear he was a secular humanist, and promoted it in Trek, but given how personal freedoms have always been promoted in Trek, his intent was most likely that religion simply died out when people realized they no longer needed it, not that it was “purged.” Here, Wong betrays his a priori prejudices by arbitrarily accusing Trek of promoting elimination of religion by force when he has no way of showing this. He simply picks the more sinister scenario that is more consistent with his thesis.

Also, he makes clear in his essay that these criticisms do not apply to TOS, but one of most anti-religious episodes of Trek was Who Mourns of Adonais?(TNG), which was TOS!

But specific to Wong’s assertions about a chapel…so what? Would Wong care if Buddhism or Judaism or Islam were “purged” from society? This is a valid question to ask, because I can’t ever recall seeing a temple, synagogue, or mosque at all either! Why does Wong not mention this? Well, maybe because not seeing something is not evidence that it doesn’t exist? Or does Wong only care about Christianity?

Michael Wong: In [an] episode of Voyager, the holographic Doctor portrayed a Catholic priest and conducted a ceremony, but avoided mentioning "God" or "Jesus"! How someone can portray a priest and avoid mentioning God or Jesus is beyond me.
Luigi Novi: I don’t recall offhand any episode of Voyager where the Doctor portrayed a priest or performed a ceremony, but let’s assume that this did occur. So what?

The Doctor was often used for comic relief, and in doing his research, he could’ve found the information on Catholic priests and their attire, decided he liked it, so he decided to wear it. So what? This is like asking how can little kids go trick-or-treating on Halloween without partaking in or even mentioning the pagan rituals from which they were derived. Culture evolves. Symbols evolve. Rituals evolve. Hell, I still give Christmas gifts to my younger cousins and my nephew, but I’m an agnostic! Obviously, the Doctor is not a Christian, nor does Wong mention that he was performing a Christian ceremony, so why would he mention Christ, particularly when the entire scene was largely done with the writers’ tongues planted firmly in their cheeks?

Michael Wong: We never hear the name "Jesus" on TNG, DS9, or Voyager.
Luigi Novi: Untrue. Sisko mentioned God to Alixus in Paradise(DS9).

Michael Wong: Oddly enough, while Christianity has apparently been wiped out, popular New Age ideas such as transcendental meditation, seances, tribal superstitions, pseudoscientific quasi-religions and Eastern spirituality are all acceptable in the Federation. This would seem rather contradictory until you ask yourself what kinds of spirituality are popular today in Hollywood. Apparently they don't believe that God made Man in his own image, but they do believe that Hollywood should remake mankind in its image.
Luigi Novi: And this has to do with communism……………..how? I thought Wong was talking about whether Trek promotes communism, not whether it’s influenced by Hollywood. Did communism outlaw mainstream religions, but permit New Age ones? If I understand correctly, communism bans ALL religions. So this is irrelevant to Wong’s thesis.

Michael Wong: Karl Marx's "free love" idea seems to have taken root. Pleasure planets like Risa, whose economies are based entirely on the sex trade, are stark proof that the Federation has decriminalized prostitution and encouraged a casual attitude toward sexual promiscuity.
Luigi Novi: It has never been established that Risa’s economy is based entirely on the sex trade. It is very well possible, for all we know, that sex with Risian employees is a minor aspect of vacationing there. Many vacationers, after all, are monogamous couples, or the elderly, who for all we know, do not patronize that service at all.

Second, legalized prostitution is not the sole province of communism. There are many people who advocate it who are anything but communist, such as Peter McWilliams, author of Ain’t Nobody’s Business if You Do: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in Our Free Country, who not advocates the de-criminalizing of drugs, prostitution, gambling, polygamy, etc., but presents, as one of his arguments, the notion that criminalizing such things is anti-capitalist. I myself am all for legalized prostitution, and there are countries that have it, which are not capitalist, such as the Netherlands, which is a parliamentary democracy, and which many economic historians regard as the first thoroughly capitalist country in the world.

Lastly, parts of Nevada and Rhode Island have legal prostitution. Are Nevada or Rhode Island communist?

Michael Wong: Karl Marx advocated state-run education. Enlightened free-market societies also provide state-funded education for their citizens (the principal reason for the growth of the middle class), but not to the exclusion of alternatives such as private schools, learning centres, and home schooling. It would seem self-evident that private schools and learning centres are not permitted in the corporation-phobic Federation, but to be fair, there is no evidence that home schooling has been criminalized. In fact, it has been suggested that Jake Sisko must have been home-schooled before Keiko arrived as DS9's lone teacher...
Luigi Novi: Here, Wong honorably concedes a point that is not consistent with his thesis. Now again, since he is accusing the writers of deliberately promoting communism, and not just sloppy, unimaginative or not fully thought-out writing, how does he explain this? Why, if all the elements he has thus pointed out are the result of deliberate communist promotion, did the writers allow this?

Michael Wong: The situation with the agriculture industry is unknown, since people seem to prefer real food to replicated food….
Luigi Novi: Nope. Geordi told Commander Kurn in Sins of the Father(TNG) that the roast turkey they ate was replicated because they don’t kill animals for food anymore. When O’Brien told Keiko in The Wounded(TNG) that his mother didn’t believe in a replicator, Keiko was fascinated that she touched real food. Picard’s brother Robert didn’t believe in some aspects of modern technology either, and didn’t own a replicator, as seen in Family(TNG). Michael Eddington preferred real tomatoes to replicated ones, as he made clear in Blaze of Glory(DS9). And while this is a subjective opinion of my own, I find it difficult to believe that Joseph Sisko used a replicator in his restaurant.

Michael Wong: No corporations: There are no known privately owned corporations in the Federation.
Luigi Novi: There is no evidence of this, and the lack of any mention of government bidding or manufacturers doesn’t constitute it.

Michael Wong: the Federation, all starships look the same, and feel the same.
Luigi Novi: Of course they do. They all belong to Starfleet.

Michael Wong: No patent office: There is no patent office. We know that none of the scientists in Star Trek perform research for the purpose of obtaining lucrative patents, because everything they discover instantly enters the public domain.
Luigi Novi: There is no evidence of a lack of patent office. The only scientists we see are always the ones on Federations starships and starbases, which means they work for Starfleet. Thus, whatever they discover or create is Starfleet’s. We don’t see such advancements being patented because this only occurs in the private sector, whose scientists we don’t see, as well as because the mention of patents isn’t going to be mentioned unless it bears relevance to the story.

Michael Wong: Citizens are forced to work. Probably 100% implemented in the TNG era Federation. Even though everyone is guaranteed a comfortable standard of living by the state, everyone works hard. There are no beach bums.
Luigi Novi: What does “everyone works hard” have to do with whether they’re “forced” to do so? Of course we don’t see beach bums as a rule. How many would you expect to see on a Starfleet vessel? Naturally, we the plot does call for a visit to a beach, as in Let He Who Is Without Sin…(DS9), we saw………beachgoers!!! Who’s to say that some of them weren’t beach bums? Did Wong interview all those fictional characters and ask?

Michael Wong: Reorganization of Class structure. 100% true in the Federation. In Star Trek, no one has any prestige or perceived value to society unless he's either a soldier, a researcher, or a politician.
Luigi Novi: Wrong. Janeway admired Amelia Earhart and Leonardo da Vinci. Shakespeare must be held in high esteem, because they’re still reading and acting in his plays. The Doctor consulted Mohandas Gandhi, Lord Byron and Socrates in Darkling(VOY). O’Brien was proud of Sean Aloysius O’Brien, a labor activist who is an ancestor of his, as he told Rom in Bar Association(DS9). All Vulcans hold a philosopher, Surak, in high esteem, as do Klingons with Kahless. (Granted, Kahless was a warrior, which is similar to a soldier, but he is also revered for his philosophical beliefs). Sisko was a huge fan of baseball player Buck Bokai, as seen in If Wishes Were Horses(DS9). Again, since Starfleet is, during peacetime, a scientific organization, and during wartime, a defensive military one, it stands to reason that many of its personnel will be….researchers and soldiers! Therefore, it isn’t surprising that many of those mentioned as having prestige will be people of those professions.

Michael Wong: In real life, the aftermath of a communist revolution is invariably massive transfers of resources to the military. In Russia, Lenin and Stalin both subjected rural farmers to unspeakable famines by ordering the military to seize all of their winter foodstores for their own use. They died by the millions as a result; Stalin's winter famine holocaust actually killed more people than Hitler's death-camp Holocaust.
Luigi Novi: And the equivalent element in Trek (which Wong usually has usually described in each of his numbered items in the essay) can be found in……….?

Michael Wong: Military posts hold enormous prestige in the Federation. Think about this: how many names of real-life sea vessel captains do you know? Do you know the name of the captain of any military vessels? Unless you're in the military, I would doubt it. Admirals make press, but captains don't. But in Star Trek, Captain Picard is known far and wide, even among civilians.
Luigi Novi: Name one such civilian.

Michael Wong: In "Paradise Lost", a Starfleet admiral nearly assumed control of the entire Federation, and no one could stand in his way but another Starfleet officer (Captain Sisko).
Luigi Novi: Again, what does this have to do with either the increased influence of the military (the heading under which this item appeared) or communism?

Michael Wong: When Doctor Bashir's parents were charged with violating the Federation's anti-genetic engineering laws, they wanted to fight the charge but they eventually decided to capitulate and offer themselves up for the sentencing decision ... of a judge wearing a Starfleet uniform! Only an exceptionally influential military would have the ability to try and sentence civilians!
Luigi Novi: True. This is another example of everything being Starfleet or the Federation. (The Maritime service, the civilian police, the news service, etc.) The result of bad writing.

Michael Wong: The cultural conformity in recent Star Trek is astounding. Among humans, all citizens share the same tastes in music, food, entertainment, and clothing. They all listen to erudite music (no rock, rap, dance, or alternative music in the future). They all enjoy Shakespearean plays…
Luigi Novi: There is absolutely zero evidence of any of this, nor has Wong bothered to provide any.

Michael Wong: Thriving black market in international currencies. Most likely 100% true in the Federation.
Luigi Novi: Yet which Wong provides not a single shred of evidence for. Moreover, there are thriving black markets in the U.S. too. This point, therefore, is completely irrelevant.

Michael Wong: The precious substance known as latinum is used for all major transactions with outsiders (and even some shady transactions inside the Federation). In fact, the more illicit a given activity is, the more likely it will be paid for in latinum.
Luigi Novi: Wong again provides no evidence of this.

Michael Wong: Many also claim that the Federation is actually a free-market society, in defiance of the Federation's own claims and all of the above evidence, by mentioning things such as "so and so character has a nice collection of wine glasses in his quarters," or "Picard's family has a farm," etc. However, real-life communist citizens also had personal possessions, and multiple generations could live in a single house. Therefore, this would hardly prove that the Federation is a free market! The distinction between property and possession is critical….
Luigi Novi: And if Wong wanst to establish that these are examples of mere possession and not property, then it is he who is obligated to provide evidence for it, since the accusation that these things are deliberate attempts on the part of the Trek creators to promote communism is his.

Michael Wong: The Federation is communist. Accept it.
Luigi Novi: No. This is your opinion, one you’ve presented with fundamentally flawed arguments. Accept that.

Michael Wong: In real life, you can't have your cake and eat it too
Luigi Novi: Actually, you can. As Harlan Ellison has pointed out to those who have misstated this axiom, first, you can hold it in your hand, and are thus having it. Then, you an eat it. Therefore, you can have it and then eat it. What you can’t do is eat it and then have it.

I also find Wong to be a bit hypocritical when it comes to criticizing mistakes of grammar or spelling. On the section of the site dealing with hate mail, we see this exchange:

Ted Rogers: Oh that's right, you're too busy making fun of person who is in high school. I find that hilarious!

Michael Wong: I like your caveman speech patterns. "Making fun of person who is in high school."

But Michael is hardly perfect in this regard himself. On the page where he debunks the Communist Manifesto, under the heading, “It is enough to mention the commercial crises [recessions] that, by their periodical return, put the existence of the entire bourgeois society on its trial, each time more threateningly,”, there is this sentence that starts off thus: “It's because they understand that know…” And on the FAQ page, under the heading, What about Species 8472, or the Voth, or the Paxons, or the Citherians, or ..., he states, Hey, I don't have that kind of time! I can only manage the occasional site update dealing with two combatants, never mind three or more. In any case, the site itself is largely a reaction to certain types of obnoxious Trekkies, and since the fans of other sci-fi series are not as loudly abrasive as these particular obnoxious Trekkies, they have not elicited similar reactions (or haven't you ever noticed that it's always Star Trek vs Somebody Else? You hear very little about SW vs B5, or B5 vs Macross etc., but ST vs everybody else is always a hot topic). Some rabid B5ers are starting to make noise, but they've left me alone so far (perhaps demonstrating that disgression is the better part of valour?) Putting aside his misspelling of “Paxans” and “Cytherians”, that last sentence should read “discretion is the better part of valor”, not “digression.” Everyone makes such mistakes, after all, myself included, so for him to focus on this when someone else does it seems like a double standard.

Michael Wong: In [an] episode of Voyager, the holographic Doctor portrayed a Catholic priest and conducted a ceremony, but avoided mentioning "God" or "Jesus"! How someone can portray a priest and avoid mentioning God or Jesus is beyond me.
Luigi Novi: I don’t recall offhand any episode of Voyager where the Doctor portrayed a priest or performed a ceremony, but let’s assume that this did occur. ...

I think he may be referring to the "Fair Haven" ep. (the title of which I have of course forgotten), when Kim and Tom are trapped on the holodeck, and Janeway doesn't want to shut the program off (because it hasn't been saved, so everything would be lost). We learn that the Doctor has appeared as the Catholic priest in the village, and tries to reproach the citizens about superstitious belief in the "spirit-folk" (he fails). That ep. got some criticsm for it'S stereotype and watered-down portrayal of Catholic priests.

Though it could be argued that the Doctor didn't know any better because religion had almost died out in the 24th century, and so he couldn't find enough accurate sources. (Though the Starfleet databases contain enough trivia info on other topics...)
Externally, I thought this was a mixture of Hollywood /TPTB not wanting to offend the non-catholics, and the writers being sloppy/lazy in their research (which is probably the explanation for most of the glaring science errors in most ep.s, too.)

Luigi, thanks for countering that article - I haven't yet got around to reading it myself. Growing up in controlled capitalism (soziale Marktwirtschaft), I'm strongly opposed to "Free" Markets (in the sense of being uncontrolled by laws which protect the customers and employees) and to completly regulated ones (like in East Germany and communist countries, where state-regulated supply didn't work out). I'm also aware of the many models in between.

Of course, I also differentiate between Communism as political system (Marxism, the Chinese system etc.), and communist elements - which many religious societys have. The early Christians, as described in the story of the apostles, shared everything in their community, and the Kibbuz in Israel work today on this basis. (Yes, they're voluntary instead of forced ... but they show that it works, and that not every human is ruled by greed and avarice.)

Interesting that Wong cites the strong military component as evidence for communism - I have perceived that as evidence for Americanism, because the glorification or unquestioning, uncritical positive attitude towards the military is sth. I see strongest in the US, if compared to Germany and other European countries.

Michael Wong: Karl Marx's "free love" idea seems to have taken root. ...

Umm, this isn't exactly Marx's idea only. Many secular people have made popular the idea that loving one another can be a nice thing, without feeling terribly guilty and dirty about it, or doing it only to reproduce children. Since Rodenberry thought that enlightened humans had left the old repression behind, of course things like these would fall at the wayside, too.


...are stark proof that the Federation has decriminalized prostitution and encouraged a casual attitude toward sexual promiscuity.

But aren't most of the couples in the series monogamous?

Michael Wong: Citizens are forced to work. Probably 100% implemented in the TNG era Federation. Even though everyone is guaranteed a comfortable standard of living by the state, everyone works hard. There are no beach bums.

HHuh? Where does he get this from? The only instance I can remember offhand where work is mentioned is in the ep. with the thawed humans, where Picard explains to them that because avarice has been overcome, people are free to take the job that enhances their personality (can't remember the exact quote). In other words, people aren't forced to wash dishes or mop floors or do similar mind-numbing degrading work (that's what machines are for), but become teachers or artists or explorers or vineyard growers because they feel a calling to that profession.

Thanks, constanze. Did the Doctor perform a ceremony of some kinds in that episode, as Wong asserts?

Well, AFAIK, they didn't show the whole church service, but only the part where he preaches from the pulpit the sermon. It's been a long time since I was in a normal Catholic mass - do the catholic priests deliver the sermon from the pulpit, or only from the lectern? Or is this a mixing with protestant practice, where the pulpit is used?

Though a Catholic priest would make sense for the EMH in one detail: we already know that he can sing! So maybe he thought that the singing part of the Mass was more like opera and not like a prayer? He wouldn't be conducting a religious ceremony then, but just singing for his enjoyment. (And preaching to people what is best for them is kind of a doctor's job; hearing the confession is similar to counseling, so the Doctor may simply have seen the similarities of the respective jobs, without enough background understanding of the spiritual aspect.)

Michael Wong: As another monopolistic Microsoftian measure, all communications start and end with the ubiquitous Federation logo, even on mixed civilian/military stations like DS9.
Michael Wong: Ma Bell is back: The entire subspace relay system is owned by the Federation government, as described in the DS9 tech manual.

So monopolies like Ma Bell and Microsoft, which spring up in Free Markets (because of missing or weak Anti-Trust measures) are signs of communism? Did I miss a step there, or does Wong himself not see the contradiction?

Also, wasn't Ma Bell - the product of the free market - broken down by the Government, because the Government realized that monopolies are bad for the consumers, and that competition is better, thus interfering with free market? (Or was the US govt. at that time communist? Has anybody told that to the Americans?)

Besides, looking at things like drinking water situation here in Germany - where it's public, and protected by law to be owned by the communites (though they want to sell it) - with countries like GB or Brazil, where the state privatized it - the companies raised the prices to 300%, cashed in for some years, without doing any maintenance, then, when the pipes were corroded, left the shambles for the govt. to pick up again. Free markets are good for the shareholders, but not for the majority of the people, or the consumers, and state-owned isn't communism or bad. It depends on the circumstances and rules.

With some fickle technology like transporters, where poor maintenance, shortcuts or similar can result in a loss of life, there may be a good reason why only the Federation operates the system. Or it maybe an extrapolation of the Public transport system today.

Wong also admits that he's seen "only a handful of Voyager episodes, and only a few dozen DS9 episodes." He also claims that "most of the DS9 plots are meaningless unless you've watched the previous 30 episodes."

I think it's pretty clear by this point that he doesn't have the slightest idea of what he's talking about. He also criticizes Voyager for having a "soap-opera writing style," apparently indicating a great deal of emphasis on character continuity, as with DS9.

He's a moron with way too much time on his hands, it seems.

Personally I dont feel like there has been enough shown of civilian life in the Federation to know exactly what goes on. Starfleet is a military (or by nextgen paramilitary) organization and like all such organizations operates under their own rules and such.

But what little bit there is has shown what could be called a controlled free market economy, with blending of communistic/altruistic/captialistic and whatever istics else can be shwon. with elements of true communism thrown in (the lack of money, replicators that can make almost anything being prevalent, people able to pick and choose their jobs) as well as some of the better aspects of capitalism (private ownership of property, trade of some sort, the "credits" representing something, etc..)

http://www.friesian.com/trek.htm

Here's another site with an essay on Trek's fascism and atheism, and how the movies and series totally ignore the implication of kids on the ship being hurt and Borgified and all that other stuff.

Has anybody else seen it?

One answer to all this, is, we don't see everything. We only see 48 minutes per week on one ship out of thousands...

The guy (Mr. Wong) who runs the polemical anti Trek site stardestroyer.net is *not* particularly intelligent or well-educated. His essay about the UFP being Communist is full of contradictory evidence.

He claims Trek is for morons and uses a lot of pretty numbers to make it look smart. In reality, he only has a BS in mechanical engineering. I've got an MS in electrical engineering, have published many peer reviewed articles in the topmost engineering journals, and am pursuing a PhD. I graduated with highest honors in both my BS and MS degrees.

If you want a smart guy who provides well-reasoned analyses of Trek and isn't afraid to critique when it goes astray, check out Bernd Schneider's site. He has a PhD in EE and does top-flight work. His site is Ex Astra Scienta. He's smart enough to get that Trek is not real science but fiction. Mr. Wong can't seem to fathom that. Dr. Schneider also has excellent essays concerning the realism of science fiction and does not waste time bashing other shows. If you read Mr. Wong's personal site, you'll find he's just a very angry man.

That being said, it's never been clear how the Earth or UFP economies work. It's deliberately vague. Writers such as Ron Moore have noted Roddenberry's insistence on a "gift economy" and have been just as frustrated as we when trying to understand it. That's why it's rarely mentioned.

Jake's line to Nog was an in-joke by the same writer who had Picard say that. He thought of it as a self-parody.

I imagine that most menial and manual labor jobs are automated. If we accept that there truly is no such thing as income on Earth, it's not inconceivable that many would still work. I would, for performing engineering research is engaging and more rewarding that getting a high-paying job making gadgets or sitting around watching TV all day.

Still, I'd also imagine there'd be people who'd game the system and just be lazy. It may be that such people are either pariahs or seen as leeches, or that only their basic needs are met. There could still be some sort of incentive system that doesn't involve money or capital per se. Perhaps those who contribute more get a better apartment/house or gain access to new and better technology. But that would create envy, which is apparently absent.

So I have no idea how it could possibly work. For example, if you're not getting paid, why follow orders in Starfleet? What are they going to do? Kick you out? So what? See the problem?

I don't care though. I like to pretend it's real, just as I like to pretend the tech is real.

Btw, Luigi Novi: good job refuting Wong's points. I thought his worst argument was the "Spartan" decor of Starfleet personnel. Since when do military officers get to use their quarters as a home? Their living arrangement seems down right luxurious for being on a Starfleet vessel (and yes, they had to use one set for the rooms. It'd be hard to personalize them too much for time and budget reasons.)

I can accept that future Earth/the UFP might be some sort of mixed social democracy economy (though I think it's beyond any boxes we can fit it into). But it's certainly not *Marxist*!

Marxism is a system in which the workers unite to take ownership of factories, the government, (and in later versions), agriculture. So where are the proletarians and their factories? It's a severe anachronistic error to try to fit Marxism into the 24th century.