This episode contains my favorite BIMOL, since it's a 4-fer:

In the opening scene, while Kor is telling his big adventure story, Bashir
murmurs something to Odo. I don't have Closed Captioning; the best I
can make it out is something like, "Give me the odds for this." (?)

Odo replies, "Sneaking along rivers of lava past walls of fire. Not very likely."

Kira adds, "Three against an army--even more unlikely."

Then O'Brien says, "Yeah, but who cares? He tells it well!"

And that's the last we hear from any of them!

They could have titled this episode Treasure Of The Klingon Madre.

Jadzia says, "We should just be outside the force field." Well, they couldn't be inside it or it wouldn't be much of a force field, now would it?

I believe in Birthright, Part II, Worf told the Klingon children that Kahless took some of his own hair, stuck it in molten lava, and formed his sword. Now that we finally see the sword it brings up a few questions. Why did he pick such a weird shape for a sword? Just how long was his hair? (That's a big sword.) Even though it is rougher and not as good looking as later swords, didn't it appear to be a little too symmetrical and polished? (Of course, maybe this was a later sword of Kahless and not the original, just the only surviving one. All others either lost, broken in battle, or guarded by priests. ;-)

The names Klingons use for their weapons are interesting. Bat'leths, mek'leths, Letheans...

Kahless' sword is 1,400 years old, but Kor says that the guy he killed was the first man to be killed with the sword in a 1,000 years. So after Kahless died people still used his sword to kill other people, rather than stick it in a place of honor?

So no one thought to bring down a map of the caverns before they left the runabout?

Isn't it amazing that the Her'Q went to all that trouble to find and travel through a wormhole, bypass Bajor and Cardassia, just to pillage a world of barbarians, and then store the loot in a museum? Now there was a race that needed to get a life.

Did ya see the sword spinning off gracefully into space when they beamed it into space? Looked real pretty but it doesn't make much sense. It was resting perfectly still when it left the runabout and an object at rest tends to remain at rest, right?

BILC, silly.

It's in the DS9 guide, I think.

Does Worf say "competition" or "confrontation" when referring to Kor and Kirk on Organia? If "competition," it brings to mind Kor and Kirk competing in events--500 meter dash, high jump, spelling bee, etc.

Sir Rhosis

I thought it was the Scenery-Chewing Competition.

He said "confrontation."

It is very possible that the Sword of Kahless was used after his departure until the Her'Q showed up and stole it. I am sure Kahless' successors took the same attitude toward it as Kor did, "it's a Sword!" It was meant to be used, not stuck in a glass case and worshipped. When someone challenged the Emperor of the Klingon Empire in those days, he picked up the Sword of Kahless, apparently the symbol of the Emperor, and handled his business.

As for why it looks different than other bat'leths, there are a few possible reasons. First, maybe Kahless invented the bat'leth, and this was the first one he made. Later generations improved the materials and design into its present form. Second, perhaps bat'leths existed already in his time and he made his own bat'leth unique, so everyone would recognize it. Third, maybe when Kahless finished unitng the Klingon people and became Emperor, he had someone make a special weapon for him, which became the weapon of the Emperor.

I think the first reason Chris gave is the correct one. In a TNG episode (I forget which one), I believe that Worf tells Alexander some legend of Kahless, and how he made the first bat'leth. Of course, Worf also says that Kahless made it by dipping his own hair in molten rock, so perhaps we shouldn't take much stock in the rest of the tale.

GREAT LINE: "GLORIOUS!" Kor at the opening of the Wormhole.

No doubt Colicos had as much fun saying it as much I enjoyed hearing it!

Who says that 1,400 years prior that the Cardassians had the same empire with the same borders and star systems? Maybe when they attacked the Klingon Homeworld those systems weren't occupied and who says they travelled through the wormhole either?

We know nothing of this race other than the invaded klingon space and then died themselves

KAM: Isn't it amazing that the Her'Q went to all that trouble to find and travel through a wormhole, bypass Bajor and Cardassia, just to pillage a world of barbarians, and then store the loot in a museum? Now there was a race that needed to get a life.
Luigi Novi: I didn’t get the sense from the episode that he Hur’Q used the wormhole. I thought Sisko and Dax were the first to discover the wormhole in Emissary. What I assumed is that the cloth got there the old-fashioned way.

Perhaps the Hur’Q who left or lost the cloth in the Gamma Quadrant used generational ships to travel there the old-fashioned way, or else bartered it or had it stolen themselves from someone else who went there. I could be wrong, though.

Well, Luigi, technically Akorem from "Ascension" discovered the wormhole long before Sisko and Dax did; they were just the first ones to get back. But since this is totally irrelevent to the Hur'Q, I'll be silent now...

I have a theory about the Hur'q and their fate. I believe that they were the ones who in the past history of the Gamma Quadrant were responsible for the creation of the Dominion. I wrote a short Star Trek story about five years ago (never got it printed or posted on a fanfic site. It was just something to do to take my mind off a particularly unpleasant and painful falling out with my girlfriend of the time. {sadly we never did heal the rifts, mostly of my own making to my everlasting regret on both counts.} To cut a long and not particularly cheerful story short I was back in my home town on my summer holidays from university, dreading going back to all the trouble when the holidays ended. I decided I would do some writing to take my mind off the situation. This episode was on TV when I thought about what happened to this Hurq race, and why they would plunder Alpha Quadrant worlds. I decided it might be interesting to chronicle the history of the Dominion, perhaps as the prelude to a fanfic website to the political and historical makeup of the Gamma Quadrant. I figured that this seemed an area which had been barely touched upon by Trek and to my knowledge greater trek fandom (you can correct me if this has changed, this was a few years ago.), and it may be nice if I could, in a way fill in the gaps so to speak. The idea I had was what happened to the Hurq race and had they had a run in with the Dominion in the past, the episode does seem to state that the Hurq are extinct, well Kors commentry hints at that anyway. I came up with a story which went as so.

two millenia ago there were two main powers in the region surrounding the region of the Gamma quadrant terminus of the Wormhole. The Fifth Territorial Kingdom of the Hurq Birthright, and the Explorital Domain of the Shapeshifters. The latter was a once benign but increasingly militarised organisation that had been formed many millenia ago by the shapeshifters, in recent years the focus of this political entity had shifted from cultural exchange to a more militaristic mandate, largely centred on protecting the greater Omarian region (the homeworld of the founders) from attacks from outsiders. The shapeshifting abilities of the domains founders were not welcomed and even reviled by many other neighbouring societies. Their were many rumours (some unfounded, but others were not without merit) that these beings were using their abilities for purposes of espionage, disrupting the governments of rivals and attempts to prop up pro Domain support in neighbouring powers. This had resulted in an upswelling of suspition and antishapeshifter sentiment directed towards the Domain. It was around about this time the word changeling appeared in the Gamma Quadrant vernacular as a term of revulsion for the shapeshifters. This was a source of great alarm for the great link, the term the founders used for the collective melding of the shapeshifter civilisation. There were constant reports reaching the link of vigilante attacks on shapeshifter delegations, shapeshifters were told to leave worlds such as Sultahhn and T-roga or face severe penelties, and other acts of violence and persecution on other worlds such as the ugly scenes witnessed on Rakhar when baying mobs hurled stones, manure and hydrocarbon firebombs at the shapeshifter enclave in response to allegations that the political instabilities of this world were due to shapeshifters undermining the ruling parties (it must be noted the Rakhari government were all too willing to allow this to happen in order to create a common enemy to distract the public from their own failings.), and the terrible massacres of shapeshifter outposts in the Torga system carried out by the main rivals of the shapeshifters the Hurq.
The Hurq, like the Rakhari had exploited anti-shapeshifter sentiment to their own advantage. The Hurq were intellegent, but highly aggressive and territorial. They decided that the best way to establish a monopoly in the Gamma quadrant was to cause the collapse of the domain, leaving them the sole power. It was a mistake that destroyed them. The hurq led the shapeshifter witchhunts, coined the insult "changeling", and encouraged the attacks on shapeshifters. The Great link realised that the Hurq were winning the popularity stakes, their antichangeling sentiments and slogans were chanted on a hundred worlds, attacks were increasing and becoming more fierce. Most disturbing of all, the attacks were occuring on larger changeling settlements, closer to the inner systems of the Domain, this was interpreted on the part of the great link as a campaign by the Hurq and their allies to exterminate the entire shapeshifter race. The founders changed policies rapidly, all shapeshifters were recalled to the link, a fleet was constructed in the heavy emission clouds of Omaria to stave prying eyes from their existence, indeed the founders settled in the nebula hidden. it was decided that one hundred infant shapeshifters would be dispersed about the galaxy to gather information both for cultural and military purposes and to quell fears in the link at the time that complete isolation from other species would lead to intellectual stagnation in the link. The final showdown between the powers took place on Kurill prime, when 40,000 shapeshifter manifestations were slaughtered by the Imperial Hurq army, 10 shapeshifters survived aided by the apelike inhabitants known as Vorta by the shapeshifters due to the keening noise they made which sounded like that name. Aiding the Hurq were mercenaries from the Jemada race, a nomadic group of reptillian warriors whose survivors valued combat and honour at all costs, thier fighting prowess no doubt aided by a growing addiction for the Ketracic fungus of Kurill. The founders eventually cornered and subdued the largest Jemada stronghold, the first attempted to barter for his mens honour, which would be lost if the shapeshifters made good on their threat to neutralise the warriors with Delta radiation, the Jemada needed to perish in battle, in exchange for their continued survival the Jemada would "swap sides" and aid the shapeshifters in thier crusade against the Hurq. The shapeshifters agreed, they needed a large standing army against the "solids" a term they had coined against their monoform enemies. The deal also included unlimited access to Ketracic funghi on the behalf of the Founders for continuing loyalty of the Jemada mercenaries. The founders cynically manipulated the genes of the Ketracic to produce a highly potent drug which if denied would cause severe breakdown in the bodies of the new drug induced slave race of warriors the "Jem Hadar". As the founders now sought isolation a similar procedure of genetic engineering was introduced upon the Vorta, creating the administrative arm of the Domain, which allowed the vorta to perform all outside dealings, preventing the shapeshifters from having to endure the presence of the hated "solids". The Shapeshifters eventually reached the Hurq homeworld, injected the planet with a biotoxin which wiped out the population, and knowing that the Shapeshifters reputation as a threat to the galaxy was now seen in the eyes of the solids as set in stone, thus inviting solid attacks, modified the Jem Hadar further, increasing their numbers and fighting ability, spearheading centuries of military subjugation and expansion creating a power base unmatched in Gamma quadrent history. The surviving hurq tribes who had been off world, fearing destruction by the new "Dominion" located the mythical "Idran Gateway", where many fled looting prewarp worlds for valuable artifacts which they intended to sell for provisions, ships and even in some more aggressive tribes, weopons which were to be used in daring but ultimately futile retaliatory strikes against their changeling enemies. It is unknown if any Hurq tribes survive to this day. The Hurq's legacy of trying to create a power base by demonising their rivals would only be solved by a terrible war in the distant alpha quadrant, and the devastated ruins of the Cardassian Homeworld.

I may start a dominion history website one day I don't know yet though.

I almost forgot to add. The name Hurq in my story was not a name the Klingons gave the aliens. But the aliens gave the Klingons, the term crossed cultures during the raids and entered Klingon linguistics thereon. If you'll note, similar names for outsiders / marauders exist in other cultures.

1. Hurq.........(Klingonese). Outsider.
2. Herkes........(Tiburon).. Marauders of the sky.
3. Herak aq...... (Nyberrite Alliance).. Alien Raiders.
4. Hukarak....(Arbazan).. Treacherous strangers.
5. Jukrea.........(Xeppolite).. Visitors from distant lands.
6. Heretic........(Earth).... Non believers. Those who do not subscribe to the beleifs of Christendom.
7. Huuq............(Orion)... Not born of Orion. Severely Mutated.
8. Qurrak..........(Dremian)... Hooligans, Mobs (esp. from distant lands).

Nice idea, A.C., but 'Heretic' is derived from 'Heresy', not the other way around. The closest thing in biblical history to the Hur'q would be the Nephilim (probably).

Oops!!!

The story he is most often asked to recount, in fact, was the one about Kirk’s toupee gaining sentience and attacking Klingon outposts along the Neutral Zone.
One of the suggestions that has been offered for the differences between original series Klingons and modern Klingons was Gene Roddenberry’s half-joking theory that some of the Klingons were “Northern” Klingons, and the others were “Southern” Klingons. It was even suggested that perhaps the Klingons that were friends with Curzon Dax, and who befriended Jadzia Dax in the episode Blood Oath were not the same Klingons from the original series episodes Errand of Mercy(TOS), The Trouble with Tribbles(TOS), and Day of the Dove(TOS), but three different Klingons with the same names, which is utterly absurd. This episode firmly establishes that Kor, the daha master, is the same Kor from the episode Errand of Mercy, by the fact that Worf refers to Kor’s confrontations with Kirk at Organia.
I guess by the 24th century, Kahless’ bat’leth has replaced Timex watches as the item of choice in a street vendor’s trenchcoat
After the Kahless clone appeared in the monastery on Borath in Rightful Heir(TNG), he picked up the bat’leth placed on the altar. The fact that that sword was on the altar, as well as Koroth’s feigned offense before supposedly “learning” that he was, in fact, Kahless, as well as the manner in which Kahless referred to it when telling the story of how it was forged, all imply that the one on the altar was the original bat’leth. For the purposes of this episode, the creators try to backpedal, and establish that the one in this episode is the original. So where did that one on Borath come from?
Talk about your strict waiting periods for weapons
Dax’s analysis of the cloth marking and the bat’leth determine that they are 1400 years old. In Rightful Heir, Koroth said that they had waited for Kahless for 15 centuries. One of these numbers is wrong, because by their measure, the sword was created a century after Kahless’ death.
I could certainly use a drink of that after watching “Let He Who Is Without Sin…” and “Ferengi Love Songs”
In Greek mythology, the water from the river Lethe (which means “forgetfulness” or “concealment”) caused forgetfulness. In this episode, we are introduced to an alien race called the Letheans, whose telepathic abilites can modify memories. Did the creators name the Letheans for this reason?
It’s a survival trait the Klingons evolved when they were placed on Michael Jackson’s ranch
Wow, Toral sure looks and sounds a lot older than I would have imagined he’d be, given it’s been only four years since Redemption part II(TNG)! Has he been taking steroids? I knew Klingon gestation, infancy and childhood were short time periods. Now we can add young adulthood to the list, too.
And you thought Harry Potter’s relatives were snotty
When Worf tells Dax that he begged his adoptive parents to take him to the Klingon homeworld, he says that when there, he stayed with his cousin’s family. Huh? Didn’t Sins of the Father(TNG) establish that Worf had no other family aside from Kurn? If he had cousins, why didn’t they take him in and raise him after he was orphaned?
The returned Jesus Christ: “Whaddaya mean the Pope is using the Shroud of Turin as a bath towel??!!”
At the end of the episode, the trio beam the bat’leth into space. ARE THEY NUTS?!! If someone authenticated the Shroud of Turin, or found the Holy Grail, would you beam it into space to keep them from being stolen? They say the sword would divide the empire, as it did them. Would that really happen, if it were in Emperor Kahless’ possession? Would the sword really be considered more awesome than the return of Kahless himself three years ago? How can they treat such an important artifact this way? Even if they didn’t want to present it to Kahless, couldn’t they just hide it?

Actually, Luigi, the Letheans were first introduced in "Distant Voices".

Interesting example you used for that last point - I've read more than one story in which the Holy Grail is found and cast into the ocean to prevent it being a coveted relic that would split father from son and divide Christianity.

Oh yeah. Thanks.

What happened to the cloth after the end of this episode? Was it brought back to the Empire? Or did Jadzia rescind her authentication of it so others would not go looking for the sword?

How does Jadzia know that Hur'Q DNA is such?

Maybe Dax used the cloth to dust her quarters?

"Maybe Dax used the cloth to dust her quarters?"

hmmm, for some reason the Simpsons episode: "The Stonecutters goes through my head...

This episode was directed by the actor that played Lt. Commander Geordi LaForge on Star Trek The Next Generation.

Dumped a fake post and the response to it.

Thanks, Mike, but you can leave it to me next time.

Sure--I wasn't trying to step on your toes.

This kind of BS wouldn't happen if this was a registered website!

After the Kahless clone appeared in the monastery on Borath in Rightful Heir(TNG), he picked up the bat’leth placed on the altar. The fact that that sword was on the altar, as well as Koroth’s feigned offense before supposedly “learning” that he was, in fact, Kahless, as well as the manner in which Kahless referred to it when telling the story of how it was forged, all imply that the one on the altar was the original bat’leth. For the purposes of this episode, the creators try to backpedal, and establish that the one in this episode is the original. So where did that one on Borath come from?

Look at it like The Shroud of Turin. Plenty of reasons to think that it's fake but the church still says it's the real shroud of christ.

After 15 centuries some other sword probably was substatuted for the real one when the real one went missing. The Klingon leaders who weilded this new sword of course clamed that it was the origional. The Khaless clone only knew what the religious leaders programed into his head and religious leaders who have "the origional" probably won't change their story even after historians say that the real sword was lost.

I have temporarily closed this board, as it has been a recurrent target for a spammer. I'll reopen the board to new messages in 24 hours.

Update: The board has been reopened. Any further spam will be deleted the moment I see it.

Time to remove the Anon option

I'd tend to agree.