I'll just let everyone else fill in this area. It's really hard for me to think of a bad one.

Not that hard. Apparently, you forgot all about "Profit and Lace," or how about "Let It Be He Who Is Without Sin," or maybe even the Dax main story in "Meridian" (aka "Brigadoon Revisited"?)

"Fascination"? (Lwaxana Troi shows up and everybody gets loopy.)

I'm sorry, but I couldn't sit through "His Way" I could understand that maybe the relationship of Kira and Odo, could go to a next level, but doing it in a holosuite?!?!? It just isn't Kira, in my opinion!! Or Odo, for that matter!
I quess "Fascination" was kind of loopy!! Though I like the scene with Quark drooling over Keiko!! The expression on her face was classic!!
"Dramatish Personae" was not my favorite either. I just couldn't believe the characters could behave like that!

Well, I kinda liked "Dramatis Personae" when it originally aired -- of course, I was only 13 at the time, and I had absolutely no taste at all when I was that age! :-) But there are definitely worse episodes.

And for sheer Deep Hurting, you can't beat The Episode Whose Name We Do Not Speak (aka Quark In Drag. WHAT in God's name possessed them to do that?!?), although "Let He [sic] Who Is Without Sin" comes close...

I always thought "Move Along Home" was pretty
lame. I cant stand "Melora".

Emissary, part 2. As much as I like Patrik Stewart, this was intolerable.

The Storyteller. Rivals. Fascinations. Shakar. The Way of the Warrior. Let he who's withut sin. Nor the battle to the strong. Empok Nor. Sons & Daughters. Etc, etc, etc

Hmm - Anonymous people, if you are going to take the time to type "Anonymous no 1," why not just post your real names, or at least some form of ID that we can know you by on these boards? It isn't like we're trading state secrets (that's two boards over, at the X-Files... ;-) But anyway, I digress.

Emissary, I'm willing to grant them, as it was the first episode, and had to set up the whole emissary and prophets plot line.

Thankfully, we haven't had any episodes nearly as bad as some on TNG and VOY, but there were a few bad ones. I'd rank The Episode Whose Name We Do Not Speak as being a pretty awful episode, as well as Treachery, Faith, and the Great River. (Of course, I'm of the opinion that most of the Ferengi episodes are painful to watch, but that's just IMHO.)

There were many examples of good episodes gone bad, of course - that is, good idea, bad execution. The most recent one of this genre has to be The Emperor's New Cloak.

I'd say that three parter where the Circle
took over the station, as well that episode
where Bashir is taken over by an alien.
(It was an early episode of DS9...remember
how terrible Alexander Siddig's acting was?
"Fit...as...a...fid...dle!")

Any episode focusing on Bajoran politics is usually bad.

Most of the first season...
especially, that awful one, what was the name of it? the one with Rumpelstiltskin in it!

The Quark in Drag episode was horrible but the worse I thought was the one where everyone thought Morn was dead or "It's a Morn, Morn, Morn, Morn, Morn World"

You mean "Reservoir Ferengis"?

Rumpelstilskin was in "If Wishes Were Horses." The "Morn Dead" episode is "Who Mourns for Morn?" The Quark in Drag episode is "Profit and Lace." And to express disagreement, some of the Bajoran politics episodes were pretty good. I loved "The Circle" Trilogy, but to each his/her own, I guess.

I don't remember "Reservoir Frengis". what happened in that episode?

That's my name for "Who Mourns For Morn?". Either that or "Tarantino Trek".

If it was Tarantino Trek, Quark would have gotten blown in half over the gold! (see the "Gold Watch" part of "Pulp Fiction" if you don't know what I'm talking about. I liked that ep. because of the comedy. I didn't like "The Storyteller," "Body Parts," and a few others that I can't recall offhand.

norman! Why do you think we call it "The Episode
Whose Name We Do Not Speak!"? And what did you do?
You spoke it!

line eater

My own least favourite episode is "Time's Orphan". Check out my rant against it on its page.

You know, this alternate naming scheme for bad episodes (e.g. "Reservoir Ferengi" for "Who Mourns for Morn?") is kind of a fun idea! Maybe I ought to start a new thread...

How about "National Lampoon's Risian Vacation" for "Let He Who Is Without Sin"?

Oh, and I really liked the Circle Trilogy as well!

Personally, I liked the episode "The Passenger", where Bashir gets taken over by the alien. (Other than the fact that it's obvious from the start that Bashir WAS the one taken over.) I didn't think his acting was bad. In fact, I thought he did a very good job of portraying a being who was not quite accustomed to his new body yet. New musculature, new vocal cords, alien hormones...it would have looked wrong if Siddig HAD played it smoothly.

I didn't like the episode where Winn became Kai. It's frustrating, because you know, you just KNOW, that Winn was involved in that asassination plot and that whole mess with "The Circle", etc.

I loved Emissary, it's still in my DS9, top twenty. It established the whole Bajoran culture and the series main characters.

As for DS9's worst episodes or at least bad ones I'd put my finger on the "Baseball" one. What were they thinking? Also, the first season with only a few exceptions like Emissary and Past Prolouge. Also, I have to say that Worf's mourning over Jadzia has really annoyed me. No offense, but the whole Worf subplots in the first three episodes of the seventh season were just, "Eck."

I have to go with "Melora" on this one.
I used to think "The Wire" was bad, but it looked a lot better on the last rerun.

You thought "the Wire" was Bad!!!! I love that episode. I guess to he his own.

I have to say Profit and Lace...
I'm not a huge fan of Ferengi episodes to begin with but this one was intolerable

Any episode that has Vic (with the exception of "The Emperors New Cloak," since he dies"), or any episode that centers on Kira and Odo's feelings for each other.

Little Green Men was IMNSHO the most vile episode that I've seen.

I must say "If Wishes Were Horses" was not the best DS9, and "Move Along Home" was kinda tedious.I could feel Sisc's and Kira's annlyance at being stuck on a gameboard. Though I like Jadzia's opptimism at almost anything, how she has fun figuring out each stage of the game. Also, I must admit, Bashir screaming his way out of a nightmare is strange for him. I guess the enhanced DNA hasn't kicked in yet!

I liked "If Wishes Were Horses". Mainly because the villians are so absurd- A baseball player, Rumplestiltskin, and Jazia who is in love with Bashir. IMHO, these are 3 things you wouldn't expect to see on Star Trek.

The two episodes that I dislike the most are "Paradise" and "The Ship."

I also liked the Quark in drag episode. I really liked Quark getting put in his place about the way
he treated women.

Any Ferengi episode, any mirror universe episode and most of the 1st season (I do have some favorites)

"Take Me Out To The Holosuite". It made me laugh for all the wrong reasons.

The worst scene was the Odyssey's destruction in "The Jem'Hadar"

Could you elaborate on why you thought said scene was so bad, Anon.?

I hated every episode focusing on Jadzia and especially on her previous hosts. Who cares? "Meridian" and "Facets".
The Bajoran politics weren't as bad as the Bajoran stories heavy on the religion.
I've hated Leeta's involvment in the show since she expressed her love for Rom.
For a time, between the 4th and 6th season, Gul Dukat should have been named Dull Dukat. At least when he went cuckoo for Pah Wraiths he had a purpose worthy of a recurring character.
I'll need to go over the entire episode list before I name any more worst episodes.

Check this out:

http://www.scifi.com/pulp/sfecurrent/ds91.html

It Was the Best of Nine, It Was the Worst of Nine

Star Trek's toughest fans rate the best (and worst) episodes of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

By Michael A. Burstein

9's WORST 10

10. Move Along Home

In the first season, the wormhole to the Gamma Quadrant could be seen as the ultimate plot device. Just through the wormhole could be any
bizarre alien race that might pop onto the station for a visit, forcing the crew into a first contact situation over and over again.

Unfortunately, the idea doesn't always work as well as it could. Although fans were amused by the thought that the Wadi race were only interested in playing games, even the delightful performance by Joel Brooks as their leader couldn't save this episode. After Quark attempts to trick the Wadi, Falow traps the crew in a surreal deadly maze and forces Quark to play a
game in which each piece represents a crew member. But in the end, the fans felt cheated when the life-and-death situations turned out to be nothing but a game. As Mike Caldwell notes, "This episode introduced the horrible idea that Quark could play the role of the stowaway in Lost in Space, the character whose greedy machinations land all the other characters in hot water, without ever suffering any consequences for it."
Or, as Greg McElhatton humorously puts it, "Oh look. They're stuck in a board game. Or is that a bored game? I know I was."

9. Rivals

This second-season episode is another one whose focus is mostly on Quark's bar. Chris Sarandon plays Martus, who acquires a strange alien device that affects luck and uses it to set up a bar and casino to compete with Quark's. He replicates the device as a gambling game, and Dax eventually discovers that the alien devices are affecting probabilities all over the station.

The rivalry is lame, but what really hurts this episode is the alien device -- or plot device. Gabriel Garcia hits the nail on the head when he says, "The whole luck/unluck thing is mired in Treknobabble." Tim Lynch agrees: "There's some truly horrible science in here."

However, this episode did have one saving grace: the racquetball game between O'Brien and Bashir.

8. Resurrection

The mirror universe has been a popular concept with Trek fans ever since the original series episode "Mirror, Mirror," and most fans were pleased when DS9 decided to resurrect it. But not in this particular case, even though this sixth-season episode used the alternate universe to bring back Bareil, one of the more popular love interests for Kira.

Then again, maybe that was the problem. After all, the noble Vedek Bareil had a tragic, but well-meaning, death, and perhaps the new version of him cheapens the memory of the old. Having the mirror Bareil seduce Kira in order to steal an Orb for the Intendant just didn't work for many fans. As Tim Lynch notes, "Whatever chemistry Philip Anglim and Nana Visitor had in past seasons is completely gone here, and mirror-Kira's strutting has grown pretty tiresome." And, as Mike Caldwell says, "This one just ground on to a predictable conclusion."

7. The Muse

This fourth-season episode combined two things that fans might have liked: Jake Sisko's attempt to write his first novel, and the love life of Lwaxana Troi. And yet, both of these stories fall flat, and for good reason. As Tim Lynch points out, the "soul-sucking vampire muse" is an overused idea, and although Jake does write his novel, for some fans it is a bit of a cheat that he required the help of Onaya. As for Lwaxana Troi, by this point a lot of fans have gotten tired of following her love life, even if the episode revolves around Odo protecting a pregnant Lwaxana from her husband Jeyal.

Of course, there is one other possibility why this episode ranked so low. By season four, viewers expected higher quality episodes, and so this one tends to stick out for its flaws. As Jim Mann points out, "Maybe this episode was rated so poorly because it was a rather average episode stuck in the middle of a run of very good episodes."

6. Melora

Whenever any television series attempts to do a show about a serious issue, it either succeeds gloriously or falls flat on its face. DS9 has had its share of triumphs, but also had its share of losers, including this one from the second season. As Tim Lynch puts it, "'Melora' tried to be an issue show about dealing with disabilities, but does it so badly that it's just terrible viewing. Bashir falls for a recent transfer from a low-gravity planet who's stuck in a wheelchair most of the time. His solution is no help, Quark's jeopardy is no threat, and the episode is no fun."

Greg McElhatton agrees that it's the story that makes this episode fail. "It's really a pity -- after signing up a good guest star (Daphne Ashbrook) we ended up with a lukewarm story. I suppose they felt the need to use the originally jettisoned idea of having a crew member from a low-gravity world, but there must have been a better way to do it than this."

5. Fascination

It can hurt to watch this third-season episode, given the embarrassing situations in which the characters find themselves.
During the Bajoran Gratitude Festival, Lwaxana Troi comes to visit, and many of the station personnel throw themselves at each other.
It turns out that Lwaxana has Zanthi Fever and is infecting everyone on the station with her amorous feelings for Odo.

What makes "Fascination" so painful is the odd pairings of the characters, and the awful plot device for bringing people together in what the writers probably expected to be humorous situations. Tim
Lynch notes that this episode is "the bottom of the barrel. Lwaxana shows up again, and is ill in such a way as to give off telepathic love pheromones to everyone on the station. Sitcoms would now add 'with hilarious results.' They'd probably be wrong, too."

4. Ferengi Love Songs

Because Quark, a Ferengi, ran the bar on the station, the show's writers could explore the Ferengi society in more depth, and from the fact that two Ferengi-themed episodes made it to the bottom 10, it would appear that their time might have been better spent. Or, as Tim Lynch puts it, "What's a bottom-10 list without a truly bad visit to Ferenginar?"

In this fifth-season episode, Quark's mother Ishka has fallen in love with Grand Nagus Zek and is changing the face of the Ferengi economy. Guest stars Cecily Adams and Wallace Shawn are practically wasted. Furthermore, Quark acts very nasty in this episode, and as Gabriel Garcia notes, "Seeing Quark hurt his mother gets old -- how are we supposed to like someone who purposely goes about breaking apart his own mother's relationships and making her miserable?"

3. Let He Who Is Without Sin ...

Guest star Vanessa Williams and the pleasure planet of Risa. A winning combination, right? Unfortunately, that wasn't the case for this fifth-season episode, in which Worf, Jadzia Dax, Bashir, and Leeta travel to Risa together for a vacation. Worf joins a group whose goal is to destroy the planet, all in the name of keeping the Federation strong and his behavior, along with the preaching on both sides of the issue, gave this episode a bad taste for many fans.

Mike Caldwell notes that this is his least favorite episode, calling it "typical Hollywood preaching against sexual puritanism." Gabriel Garcia thought it was awful for other reasons: "It makes Risans seem like loose harlots, and it turns Worf into a man willing to commit terrorism upon a harmless resort planet, and all of its citizens and customers. How is this an honorable act? Garcia further adds that "Worf's character suffered a grievous injury from this episode."

Tim Lynch perhaps sums up the rest when he reminds us that it was scheduled for the November sweeps. "DS9 takes new lovers Worf and Dax to Risa, where pleasure is the name of the game. In some alternate universe, this might have actually been funny. Instead we get Worf acting like a grump all show, conspiring against Risa in a way that should really get him arrested by Federation authorities, Rom acting like a buffoon, and in the end no one has a good time -- especially us."

2. Meridian

Almost anyone who is told the plot of this episode from the third season can immediately identify it as a take-off of the musical Brigadoon, in which a town only wakes up once every hundred years. Jadzia Dax falls in love with a man, Deral, whose planet in the Gamma Quadrant will disappear into another dimension for 60 years. She wants to stay with him but, of course, in the end does not.

So what's wrong with (yet another) plot involving romance? Well, as Gabriel Garcia points out, Jadzia Dax isn't exactly behaving like a Trill. "Jadzia Dax decides to throw out centuries of Trill tradition and sacrifice her symbiont, not giving it any chance to find a new host, sentencing it to an eventual death on a planet that phases out of existence -- and she's willing to do it all for a man with blue eyes and an easy willingness to take her to bed?" Furthermore, as Tim Lynch notes, "This episode has some of the most sappy, saccharin, terrible dialogue you'll ever come across." And he points out that the second plot, in which Quark tries to help a sexually obsessed customer get a holographic image of Kira, "is deeply unpleasant in its own right."

1. Profit and Lace

And now we come to the episode that Tim Lynch refers to as "easily the worst DS9 of all time, and possibly the worst episode of Trek ever." Dana Kiehl notes that this sixth-season episode "really offended some fans." When Grand Nagus Zek gives Ferengi women full rights in the Ferengi Bill of Opportunities, he is deposed by Liquidator Brunt, and Quark disguises himself as a woman named Lumba to convince a member of the Ferengi Commerce Authority to support Zek. Sounds like a great slapstick comedy, right?

"Gross, crass, and unfunny," says Gabriel Garcia about this episode. "While I wasn't horrified or affronted to the degree of many others, this episode was a waste with only one or two bright spots -- all of them from Rom, and none of them involving the main storyline of Quark becoming a woman, being chased around by a lecherous married Ferengi, taking off his/her clothes to expose him/herself to said Ferengi, and so on. This episode brings us tons of stereotypes about women vs. men and paints them as fact.
There is also a painfully long scene with no characters on screen as you hear crashing and banging -- with Quark/Lumba fighting off a man's advances ... whoever wrote this episode should apologize to women (and men) everywhere, [particularly] all the people who actually sat through it."

Offensive, offensive, offensive. Kevin Snell goes down the list.
"First of all, let's begin with the assumption that the entire concept of men disguising themselves as women will immediately alienate a certain percentage of the population. That's a given. Now, of the remaining percentage, let's assume that a certain percentage of those will be offended by constant, overt, unrelenting sexism and gender bias. Okay, let's take the remaining handful of individuals who are not offended by any of that, and let's make them watch a horribly unfunny comedy where all of the characters whine, grunt, and squeal a lot. Eventually," Snell notes, "'Profit and Lace' alienates everybody."

Any episode with Lawxana Troi in it
(except Pup or whatever the name of
the 1st season episode was). Same with
Troi episodes on TNG

oh yeah..Face of the Enenemy (where Troi gfoes under cover on Romulus)..that was a stinker?!?! Try again!

I think Mark meant episodes with Lwaxana Troi, not Deanna. [and I agree about "Face of the Enemy"!]

I really didn't like "Progress." I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet.

i never liked Meridian. Another that I never watch when it's on is "Sanctuary." I really, really don't like that one.

I would have to say my least favorite episode was the one where Dax went bonkers and had to be taken back to the Trill homeworld. I cant remember the name of it though. I did like it in the beginning when she was like, rude to everyone, (especially Kira). But after that, the episode justs draaaaaaaaaags. By act 3, I was begging for a mercy killing. Other episodes I didnt really care for were: "His way". I was so hoping for a Borg invasion right about the time Odo takes the piano. "Extreme measures". After The Dynamic duo enter Sloans mind, They notice it looks like the station. But later on they are in some place with wierd lookin carpet (almost like a Hotel hallway). And I could swear the guy who shoots Bashir & O'Brien is the actor who plays Damar (out of make-up of course).

I don't think the actor who's character shoots Bashir and O'Brien is Casey Biggs(Damar), cause I would of regognized him. In fact, I even thought the Doctor keeping Benny from writing on the wall, in Sisco's dream, was Casey Biggs, cause I regognized the voice, and I found out it was him. I think the actor in "Extreme Measures" had darker hair, than Bigg's dirty blondish hair.

Loved "Meridian" - especially Jeffrey Combs as every woman's nightmare date! And regarding "the episode that dare not speak its name" I found it hilarious despite having been on the receiving end of suggestions at work very much like Quark's to Alura.
Worst episode of any incarnation of Trek has to be "His Way" not only for the sloppy and totally unbelievable love story, but the introduction of the most hideous life form in the Galaxy - the terminally boring Vic. I find his "Hiya, Pally!" persona intensely irritating (is he supposed to be some distant ancestor of Tom Paris?) and there's nothing like a few choruses of "Strangers in the Night" to really slow the pace down.
My vote for the worst ever piece of casting which totally ruined a promising episode goes to the woman who played Kira Meru in "Wrongs Darker than Death or Night". Imagine all the thousands of women who would relish the chance to play a love scene with Gul Dukat, and the director or whoever managed to pick someone with all the personality and acting ability of a sack of potatoes! Absolutely no chemistry between them! Nor did she manage to convey any sense of fear and apprehension about being selected as a "comfort woman". (Perhaps she knew that the Cardassian soldiers were really nice, kindly people and that her duties would merely be to pour glasses of kanar and listen to their problems - I don't think!)

I know some of you will disagree with me...but I just couldn't wait until these episode ended

It's Only a Paper Moon
Chrysalis
Covenant
Rejoined
Life Support (I must admit a good story but moved too slow and could have been better)
Progress (same as above)

What's wrong with Progress? I saw it yesterday - nice, focused character work.

Anyway, there is not one DS9 episode that I find intolerable, but here are some of the duller (or worse) ones:

Melora
Meridian
The Muse.

Bullet:

It's Only a Paper Moon I hate excessive holodeck shows, and I can't stand the way the creators keep making sentient holograms left and right without addressing the worms that pour out of such a can, but I actually thought this was the first holodeck show since Hollow Pursuits(TNG) that actually used the holodeck to point out that it IS a holodeck, and that one should live in reality.
Chrysalis Aw man, I LOVED that episode, BULLET! Well, okay, the main plot of Bashir and Sarina's relationship didn't ring as true as it could have, but I found the musical interlude where Jack, Lauren and Patrick try to help Sarina improve her verbal skills by singing to be very uplifting, and I usually dislike musical interludes. I also find Bashir's naive belief that transferring Sarina's case to another doctor would eliminate an inappropriateness or feelings of obligation on her part to be in keeping with his character, and O'Brien's reassuring comment to him at the end: "You didn't want to be alone. No one does." to be nice character work.
Rejoined I thought it was a good episode that explored the question of whether love can conquer a society that places a taboo on it. Very similar to Half a Life(TNG), and like that episode, the love could not survive the taboo.

MY LEAST FAVORITE EPISODES:
Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang I think we should take the writer of this episode out back and, well.....ya know......Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang!
Meridian I didn't find the chemistry between Dax and Deral quite as realistic or in depth as, say....the chemistry between Lea Thompson and Howard in "Howard the Duck".
Let He Who Is Without Sin... I think I'd rather be anally raped with a rusty chainsaw while undergoing a spinal tap than watch this 42-minute piece of sin on celluloid again. I think we should get some Klingon historians rewrite history and make believe this episode never happened.
One Small Ship If I have to explain this one to you, there's no point in doing so. I know the real reason the Defiant bridge crew starting cracking up in the beginning of the episode. They read the script.
Prodigal Daugher Reads like an episode of a bad soap opera.
Field of Fire Clarice Starling Ezri ain't. Episodes of Three's Company aren't this contrived. What's that? All of the victims had photos in which they were smiling? Okay, Professor Plum, when was the last time you strolled through someone's house and saw photos of them FROWNING?
Resurrection Should've stayed dead.
Time's Orphan Before I rip into this episode, I'm going to list all the qualities its qualities that I actually found pleasant. As soon as I find some, I'll get back to you.
Profit and Lace Quark gets a sex change for Zek, and without securing, in writing, what Zek will do for him in return. Anyone who buys this is missing a few french fries from their Happy Meal.
Ferengi Love Songs Ugh.
The Emperor's New Cloak Proof that a Ferengi has to die in each and every visit to the Mirror Universe.
Extreme Measures The flaw in an otherwise nice 9-episode diamond.

"Worst episode of any incarnation of Trek has to be "His Way" not only for the sloppy and totally unbelievable love story"

1. You're wrong. It's a great episode.
2. You obviously have never seen Voyager or season 3 TOS or Season 7 TNG.

I didn't mind the love story per se, but it did seem that Kira's suddenly realizing she loves Odo to be a bit contrived, something to satisfy the fans who wanted the Kira/Odo relationship. As a viewer, I wanted Odo to be happy, but as a critic, unrequited love makes for more poignant, tragic drama. Their parting at the end of What You Leave Behind made up for it.

But I DID dislike His Way for its use of another gratuitiously sentient hologram, and the introduction of a recurring 20th century setting. I also found it bizarre that an episode with this title aired just three weeks before Frank Sinatra died.

Any 7th season episode concentrating on EZRI always made me groanm because there was never seemed to be a "B" or "C" plotline. (Examples: Field of Fire; Prodigal Daughter) Why?

I thought Afterimage and the Ezri/Worf/Bashir plotline in the 9-episode finale arc were pretty good.

"sentient hologram"

Who said he was sentient? No one.

"it did seem that Kira's suddenly realizing she loves Odo to be a bit contrived"

Suddenly realize? Did you not watch the end of the fifth season and the beginning of the sixth?

Rene: Who said he was sentient?

Luigi Novi: He's aware that he's a hologram. He's intelligent, self-aware, etc.

Rene: Suddenly realize? Did you not watch the end of the fifth season and the beginning of the sixth?

Luigi Novi: Sure. And I saw no indication during those seasons that she had such feelings for him. She suddenly has a "moment" of clarity out of nowhere and starts liplocking with him. Must be one of those quirks of the univerasal translator. "Moment of clarity" must be Bajoran for "I read the script, and they just pulled this thing outta nowhere."

Don't get me wrong, Rene, the FAN in me was cheering that they were together, but the ANALYST/CRITIC in me was a bit more cynical.

"He's aware that he's a hologram. He's intelligent, self-aware, etc"

He was programmed to know he's a hologram. But he doesn't really know. He just acts like he knows. Just like Cyrus Redblock acts like a criminal because he was programmed too.

What's the difference? Do you feel Voyager's Doctor is sentient? If so, what's the difference?

Might as well argue that all the holographic characters ever created are sentient. So...did Cyrus Redblock become sentient when he learned of the world outside the holodeck? That's just plain silly.

I really liked "Emissary" a lot - it's my favourite of all pilot episodes for Trek.
I also kinda liked the Circle Trilogy(TM) - something Star Trek had never done before, a three-story arc (a.k.a. the Three Parter[patent pending]).

As for dull episodes, there was that one where Quark played a woman. What was it called again?

...

"Facets".

Why?

Why do the gorgeous ones always have to star in the worst episodes?!

Rene: Might as well argue that all the holographic characters ever created are sentient. So...did Cyrus Redblock become sentient when he learned of the world outside the holodeck?

Luigi Novi: Good point. But these are questions that should be answered, and the fact that they haven't is, in part, why we discuss them here. This brings up the entire issue of what is sentience/conciousness/intelligence. The exocomps from The Quality of Life(TNG) were definitely not designed to be sentient, but established to be so in the episode. Zimmerman definitely didn't design the Voyager's Doctor to be sentient, but he has certainly been portrayed with the intent that we accept him as such. My question still stands, Rene. Do you feel that Doc and the exocomps are sentient? If so, what's the difference between them and Vic? I'm not saying I have the answer or anything. It's just a question and inconsistency that the episodes haven't tackled, and I'm curious to how you personally would categorize these "people."

Frankly, I agree with Phil. They're no more sentient than insects. (I think he mentioned that in his rants for the episode with the exocomps.)

It's true that the issue of what makes the doc sentient compared to other holograms hasn't been dealt very well. But I blame TNG and Voyager for making anything that speaks become sentient. DS9 actually came out and said Vic wasn't sentient. (In "A Paper Moon", Vic himself says he's not.)

In real life, I would say no, the doc ain't sentient. In the Trek universe, I don't know what to think.

Rene: Frankly, I agree with Phil. They're no more sentient than insects. (I think he mentioned that in his rants for the episode with the exocomps.)

Luigi Novi: I must disagree with Phil. Phil pointed out in vol. II that Data based his entire argument for protecting the exocomps on the fact that they have a survival instinct, and comments that cockroaches have survival instincts too. Phil also conceded that the exocomps were very intelligent, but that cockroaches aren't too shabby in the intelligence department either, because they've manged to survive as a species despite human's attempt to eradicate. Okay, first of all, the cockroach is a poor example to choose to punctuate this argument. Phil is trying to suggest a relationship between two disparate things that have nothing to do with one another. He starts out ostensibly talking about animal intelligence, and then suddenly, he starts talking about an animal’s longevity/persistence, two things, that in the cockroach at least, have no bearing on one another. Insects are not intelligent to any meaningful degree. Dolphins are intelligent. Chimpanzees are intelligent. Parrots, elephants, dogs and cats have various degrees of intelligence. Cockroaches are not. The reasons cockroaches have survived for so long is because of their size, adaptability and reproduction rate. Mammals survived the catastrophe that killed the dinosaurs for the same reason.
As for the exocomps, I don't think they're limited to a mere "survival instinct". Fixing the particle fountain required great intelligence, analytical ability and a sophisticated knowledge of engineering, not merely the ability to run away from an exterminator.

As for It's Only a Paper Moon, Vic never said he wasn't sentient. He did say at the end of Act 4 that he was a hologram, not a person, but people have used the same argument about the Doctor, both in the episodes, and in these boards, and you yourself conceded Doc was sentient. Nog and O'Brien's subsequent conversation in the beginning of Act 5 also touched upon this vaguely.

As for the rest of your comments about the whole sentience thing, I pretty much agree. If the creators SAY a given being is sentient, I accept it as an established premise. The problem comes when other characters show up that appear sentient or are implied to be sentient, without the open discussions on the subject, or its ramifications.

Bottom line, it's a big mess.

Luigi -- "Afterimage" and the finale arc episodes don't qualify as Ezri episodes that lacked a "B" or "C" plot line.

I am aware of this. I simply singled them out as good Ezri stories.

Mark Bowman--that Lwaxana Troi ep with 'Pup' was called "The Forsaken," and I personally liked it, too.

I liked "Take Me Out to the Holosuite." Maybe because I not only love DS9, I am a baseball fanatic.

I'm a little embarrassed to admit, I sort of liked "Move Along Home." I don't know why, I just do.

The "Circle" trilogy I thought was really good, though.

"Progress," I agree, was really lame.

"Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang" was a fun episode. I liked it.

"Field of Fire" was a good episode, IMOSHO.

"Extreme Measures," I loved.

I don't know who asked, but the episode where Dax "goes loopy, and has to be taken to the Trill homeworld" was Equilibrium. A d*mned fine episode, if you ask me.

I don't know if this has been answered yet, but:

Slinky, the doctor who keeps Benny Russell from writing on the wall in "Shadows and Symbols" or whatever IS Casey Biggs.

Said so in the script.

I haven't read this whole thing, but I did not like the early episode where Kai Opaka... (or something like that) died. It was quite boring in my opinion.

I absolutely hate the reassociation episode. The concept of reassociation was just a lame thing they made up to do a lesbian episode.

Well, Battle Lines wasn't a big tear-jerker, Anonymous, but it set up the power struggle between Vedek Winn and Vedek Bareil, and Winn's ongoing relationship with Sisko.

Rene, a lot of premises are "made up" just to do certain stories. It's what writers sometimes have to do. The had to "make up" a telekinetic race to get Kirk and Uhura to kiss in Plato's Stepchildren(TOS). They had to "make up" the Phase for Manhunt(TNG). They had to "make up" an androgynous race to do The Outcast(TNG) . They had to "make up" a 29th century holoemitter to let Doc leave Voyager's sickbay. There's nothing wrong with hating Rejoined, but I don't think the writers were less than sincere when they wrote it. They wanted to explore societal taboos, and how Lenara wasn't able to commit one, as much as she still loved Dax, even though Dax wanted to enter into the relationship. Maybe it would've been easier to relate to the pain of their parting if they had been a man and woman, but then, that was the whole point. The external taboo (homosexuality) paralleled the internal one (reassociation). To each his own.

Any Ferengi episode.
While those episodes could be amusing, I didn't watch DS9 for the Ferengi, nor am I fond of the race.

Actually, "Little Green Men" was pretty good.

The whole first season or two (pre-Worf) almost lost me to Babylon 5. In DS9 they had technological nits I couldn't stand (besides the usual transporter silliness and the standard UT inanity there was that game in "Move along Home". A technology that can transport people into a sort of holodeck without triggering all sorts of security alarms might be useful for section 31.[Maybe it was]) In the first couple of seasons Babylon 5 was kick. Then DS9 got better and everything I liked about Babylon5 was over explained. I think the series is better if those first couple of seasons (with a few exceptions for long term plot development) are forgotten. Especially "Move Along Home."

Move Along Home was the very First DS9 episode that I saw. The Second DS9 episode I saw was Melora. No wonder it took me so long to get into DS9.

"The Ascent". I just can't stand that episode.

Considering that B5 didn't begin until DS9 was well into its second season, I'm not sure how early DS9 could have "lost you" to it.

That said, watch "Emissary," "Duet," "In the Hands of the Prophets," The Circle trilogy, "Necessary Evil," "Crossover," "The Wire," and others and you're claim, William, that the first few seasons should be forgotten is entirely without cause.

entirely without cause Josh G., your post is well reasoned except the universal statement. I'm not an avid DS9er but, Hurry on Home is the worst episode of any series ever and I am including Lost in Space here(IMHO). Can you defend your use of entirely?

As for how it almost lost me to B5: The first season of DS9 did not "hook" me. When I gave up on it (well, stopped watching it if there was anything else to do) Babylon 5 was starting. The first season of B5 had good unanswered questions (aliens so alien they were absolutely inscrutable [a species that kicked human butt all the way to Sol and surrendered, a species that is so advanced that it can do whatever it wants and no diplomatic or military pressure on it means anything]), a dock workers strike (more realistic than anything on DS9), a commander in charge of it who is clearly out of his depth but the species who kicked your butt insisted on him, two species that hate each other so much that you wonder why they are there.

Unfortunately, everything I liked about B5 disappeared. When I gave up on it DS9 was getting better.

So Josh G., since you say "entirely" can you name no inferior episodes of DS9?

That's not what you said:

I think the series is better if those first couple of seasons (with a few exceptions for long term plot development) are forgotten. Especially "Move Along Home."

My point is that there are more than a "few" exceptions - all of the episodes I've cited are from the first two seasons. The first season, admittedly, was kind of low key, at least up until the last two episodes. The second season, however, was superb. Need examples? Here's some:

The Homecoming
The Circle
The Siege
Cardassians
Necessary Evil
Armageddon Game
Whispers
Paradise
Blood Oath
The Maquis, Part I
The Maquis, Part II
The Wire
Crossover
The Collaborator
Tribunal
The Jem'Hadar

With regard to "Move Along Home," it IS an inferior episode, but so what? It's hardly the WORST episode of ANY series or even Trek series - or have you never seen "And the Children Shall Lead," "The Way to Eden," or "The Omega Glory" from TOS?

Or "Code of Honor," "Lonely Among Us," "Justice," "The Naked Now," "Home Soil," "The Outrageous Okona," "Shades of Grey," or "Genesis" from TNG?

Or how about Voyager's "Elogium," "Threshold," "Rise," "Demon," "Fair Haven," or "Spirit Folk?"

I'm not denying the existence of inferior episodes of DS9, but your claim that the first few seasons should be FORGOTTEN does NOT stand up. Though the first season had an preponderance of technobabble in some episodes, this was largely purged in the second season, and eventually disappeared.

Josh G.,

I'm glad you backed away from your universal statement, however, do not put words into my mouth. You say:
That's not what you said:- Josh G.

I think the series is better if those first couple of seasons (with a few exceptions for long term plot development) are forgotten. Especially "Move Along Home."- William Berry

That implies I tried to change what I said in my second post. If you bother to read it it you will see that it is about your comment on how I could be "lost" to B5 and your use of the word "entirely". I made no comment about the first two seasons of DS9 in my second post other than commenting on "Move Along Home". I suggest you reread the post (or read it for the first time) before you respond.

I'll make responding to this post easy for you. I not only acknowledge that the first few seasons were not as good as the later ones, I'll emphasize they were c.r.a.p.

I am not a DS9er. Episode names may not go to the right episode. In fact, I have to get the titles from the boards.

By my count there were 41 episodes in the first two seasons. I'll assume my count is wrong and say 40. I'll give you every episode you mentioned as a masterpeice. You list 16. I'll give you four more to make the math easy. 20 episodes out of 40 are worth something. 50%.

I haven't counted, but thre from three seasons of TOS ain't bad. Eight out of seven seasons of TNG ain't bad. I'll assume you couldn't type fast enough and post a truncated list for Voyager.

Josh. G., if you read this post (a big "if") you should easily spot the flaw in my logic. If you don't read it, it will be easier to argue with what you say I said.

The problem in this argument is deciding what is a terrible episode, and what is an average episode. William, you seem to be lumping terrible and average episodes together when you consider DS9's 50% score (well, it should be more than that by your estimation ) of its first two seasons against the overall scores of TOS and TNG, which only seemed to take terrible episodes into account. There were many episodes in DS9's first two seasons which have slipped my mind temporarily, not because I missed them or because they were very bad, but simply because they weren't special. Not especially good, but not so nauseatingly awful that I switched off my TV and threw it out of my apartment into the swimming pool in disgust.

I've said it before (elsewhere, not at NitCentral) and I'll say it again: everybody remembers the great things in life as much as they remember the bad things in life. Those without sparkle go by unnoticed.

That said, watch "Emissary," "Duet," "In the Hands of the Prophets," The Circle trilogy, "Necessary Evil," "Crossover," "The Wire," and others and you're claim, William, that the first few seasons should be forgotten is entirely without cause.

That's what I wrote. You have said that, with some small exceptions, the first few seasons of DS9 should be forgotten. I have said that statement is WITHOUT CAUSE. ENTIRELY so. All the episodes I cited were from the second season, and range from merely good to superb. Synonyms for entirely? Wholly, completely, fully - can you justify your claim that the first few seasons should be forgotten? If not, it is undefendable, entirely so.

If my "inferior" lists for TNG, TOS, and Voyager seem rather small, that's merely because I don't have time to list most of TNG's first two seasons or large chunks of Voyager.

Admittedly, DS9's first season was rather sedate (except for the last two episodes and the premiere). It was solid, but not terribly loud or exciting - certainly it wasn't as good as TNG's 6th season, which ran concurrently. I *can* understand why you weren't that interested in DS9 early on - neither was I, but then TNG was still on. Nevertheless, in retrospect, the second season was one of the better ones, while first season was a good, if somewhat quiet, dry run.

Anyway, DS9's first season was at least significantly less dull than Enterprise has largely been so far...

Josh G.

Yes, I can defend my assertion. Move along Home, If Wishes were Horses, Dax, Progress, The Foresaken, Dramatis Personae, Babel you may like some of those episodes. I did not. I can defend my preferences all day. Can you defend your telling what my preferences should be? (Let me guess, you're a Republican, right) I still stand by my opinion. I can have an opinion different than yours.

As for your universal statement Emissary is so-so and forgivable because it sets up the series. As for the rest of your list of "superb" episodes they are so great that I don't even remember them. (If they are great or terrible, I would recall them.) (Does your list include the episode on the planet of immortals that keep killing each other and the good Kai before Winn must stay behind?)

Now that I defended my assertion, no matter what your opinion of the value of my opinion, you say my assertion is entirely (synonyms-absolutely, completely, totally) indefensible. How often should I defend it? Doesn't one instance destroy your entirely (synonyms - wholly, completely, fully)?

Yes, I can defend my assertion. Move along Home, If Wishes were Horses, Dax, Progress, The Foresaken, Dramatis Personae, Babel you may like some of those episodes. I did not. I can defend my preferences all day. Can you defend your telling what my preferences should be? (Let me guess, you're a Republican, right) I still stand by my opinion. I can have an opinion different than yours.

Okay then, you don't like them. Those are all first-season episodes, however, and you've not mentioned Duet and such things.

And don't shame me by calling me a Republican!

1) I'm not American.
2) Even if I were, I wouldn't be partial to them.

As for your universal statement Emissary is so-so and forgivable because it sets up the series. As for the rest of your list of "superb" episodes they are so great that I don't even remember them. (If they are great or terrible, I would recall them.) (Does your list include the episode on the planet of immortals that keep killing each other and the good Kai before Winn must stay behind?)

No, that's Battlelines, but watch the second season again. Maybe the reviews here will jog your memory:

http://www.st-hypertext.com

Josh G.,

I still realize I can have my opinion wereas you have no right to say I should have your opinion.

Maybe Deng Xio Ping will argue with that statement.

Oh, second season episodes that weren't so good (in my opion) Melora, Profit and Loss, The Circle. (Yes, I know you liked the circle. I am not you. )

Well, I'll never defend "Melora" - booooring.



Of course, I am merely speaking the truth, while you are unable to see the light

Note: Please do not take the previous statement seriously

"Wrapped up like a deuce, another runner in the night." -- Blinded by the Light

Sorry, the original Springsteen verse is "Cut loose like a deuce/Another runner in the night." (At least you didn't quote what it sounds like Manfred Mann was singing.)

"Time's Orphan"
"Take Me Out to the Holosuite"
The last five or six episodes of the series, when watched in isolation, are pretty incoherent.

I think Extreme Measures is the only episode of the finale arc that's not coherent with the others.

I think that, regardless of the shakiness of the first season of DS9, it was far far better than the 1st season of TNG. (Or most of the 2nd.)

I would like to be the first person to admit this: I actually liked "The Emperor's New Cloak." In fact, I liked all the mirror universe episodes, except of course for "Resurrection." Now there was a character that should've stayed dead.

Worst Episodes Season One

Dax
The Passenger
Move Along Home
Vortex
The Storyteller
In the Hands of the Prophets

WORST EPISODE: Move Along Home

Worst episodes - Season 2

Invasive Procedures
Paradise
Tribunal

Worst Episode: Paradise

Worst episodes- Season 3

Meridian
Heart of Stone
Distant Voices

Worst episode: Distant Voices (It's been done before, guys!)

Worst episodes - Season 4

The Visitor
Rejoined
Crossfire
The Sons of Mogh
Hard Time

Worst episode: Rejoined

Worst episode of Season 5

Children of Time (Gawd, I hate temporal shifts, etc)

Worst Episodes - Season 6

Inquisition
Profit & Lace
Time's Orphan

WORST EPISODE: Profit & Lace

Worse Episodes- Season 7

Prodigal Daughter
The Emperor's New Cloak
Inter Arma, Enim Silent Leges
Extreme Measures

WORST EPISODE: Prodigal Daughter (Ezri Dax just plain stinks)

I thought In the Hands of the Prophets and Tribunal were very good episodes, both of which tackled Bajoran and Cardassian politics respectively. Paradise may not be an obvious favorite, but I thought it was a very presicent commentary on the anti-technology philosophies of people like the Unabomber.

The Visitor was a poignant story, and of the few that allowed Jake to shine. It deserved its Hugo Award. Rejoined was a very good exploration of taboos and the idea of whether love could break them, as well as a chance to show Jadzia pained by unrequited love. Hard Time was also a powerful episode. Both these last two are nice thematic companion episodes to TNG's The Outcast and The Inner Light.

Children of Time was a nice use of time travel to explore a huge moral dilemma.

Inquisition and Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges were among of the worst? Uh-uh, no way, sorry. These were two of best of the series, and of all Trek, IMO.

How dare you call "The Visitor" the worst episode of DS9 season 3. It was better than the 25 other episodes that season...put together. I hope you get sent to Ruha Penthe for that remark.

I know I'm posting here when the last post was 7-8 months ago, but hey - I thought I would express my utter disbelief that nowhere in this entire thread (although I could've missed it) did I see mention of the episode "Second Sight." This was science fiction at its worst. What a horrendous waste of 45 minutes of film, lol. "Melora" and "Meridian" were also really big stinkers, but Sisko's love tale tops the cake in my opinion.

Ccabe: How dare you call "The Visitor" the worst episode of DS9 season 3.
Luigi Novi: Yeah, really! Especially when everyone knows it was in Season 4!

It was still better than all of Season 3 put together.

My least favorite (and I prefer to say 'my least favorite' rather than 'the worst', since really, this is all opinion) is probably Move Along Home. I think the thing that put it over the top for me was that stupid "alamarane count to four" rhyme. I saw this ep over a month ago, and I still have the d@mn thing stuck in my brain. If it didn't have that, another ep may have pushed it out of last place, but it did have it, so here it remains.

Oh, BTW, can someone please tell me which ep is the one you don't dare name or whatever? I have no idea what you're talking about, so it makes a good chunk of this thread hard to figure out. Thanks.

The one where Quark is turned into a woman.

And I think that John's dislike of The Visitor (and note he didn't say "the worst") has more to do with his abhorrence of time travel stories than anything else.

Well, the penalty for saying the name is harsh, but I'll risk it.

Its "Profit and Lace"

Now, I will sadly go and take my punishment. Watching the episode twice in a row.... I'll see you all later, when I've come out of the coma.

The problem with the episode "P&L" is that it was a really good idea. But the execution (ie acting) wasn't convincing. IMHO, Julian or Miles would have been a lot funnier.

Okay, thanks. I don't even remember that one, so either it is one of the very rare Trek eps I missed (likely from when the local station changed the timeslot without warning) or it was so bad I've blocked it out (or it's just been so long I forgot!). Hopefully I'll manage to catch it on Spike (although they keep screwing with the timeslot as well... 1pm now is the only time!?!?)

Anyway, thanks for letting me know which was the ep you dare not name, even at the potential cost of your very souls!

Okay, thanks. I don't even remember that one... - n00bie

Oh, to be you...

"Chrysalis"--I liked "Statistical Probabilities," and I thought the genetically-enhanced would find some way to really come out in the seventh season against the Dominion, but instead they came out against me, and I was not impressed.

Also, I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned more, "One Little Ship." The episode provided comedy I don't believe the creators intended. Notice the extreme relevance to DS9. (As in, you could watch DS9, never see this episode, and not miss anything except a height variance in one of the main characters!)

I liked Chrysalis.

Least favorites bolded:

Season One
Past Prologue (Sorry, Duras sisters)
Dax
The Passenger
The Storyteller

Season Two
Melora
Second Sight
Sanctuary
Paradise
Playing God
Tribunal

Season Three
Equilibrium
Meridian
Life Support
Shakaar

Season Four
Crossfire
Accession
The Muse

Season Five
A Simple Investigation
Children of Time

Season Six
Resurrection
Time’s Orphan
The Sound of Her Voice

Season Seven
Covenant
Prodigal Daughter

I may as well add my choices in. My least favourite episode of each season:

Season 1: Move Along Home
Season 2: Melora
Season 3: Meridian
Season 4: The Muse
Season 5: Let He Who Is Without Sin
Season 6: guess
Season 7: Prodigal Daughter

Not a particularly original list, I know.

Prodigal Daughter, Take me out to Holoshuite, Emperor's new cloack and every Ezi episode