Tuvok mind-melds with Lon Suder, a murder. This causes Tuvok to lose control of his emotions.
Note from the Moderator: First appearance of Suder.
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By cableface on Saturday, March 06, 1999 - 1:12 pm:
I noticed that Brad Dourif, the guy who plays Suder, almost always plays psychics or psychos.
In Dune, he played the Harkonnen mentat, almost a psychic.
In the X-Files episode, Beyond The Sea, he played a condemned killer, who had psychic visions.
In Alien Ressurections, he was Gediman, the scientist who thought the Newborn creature was "a beautiful butterfly".Psycho.
And in this, he's both.A betazoid, psychic, who kills for no reason, psycho.
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By Richie Vest on Saturday, March 06, 1999 - 1:26 pm:
He was on Babylon 5 He played a monk who was in his former life a murder
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By Murray Leeder on Saturday, March 06, 1999 - 6:19 pm:
Well, he got an Oscar nomination way back in 75 for playing Billy Babbit in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". I guess he just liked the idea of spending the rest of his career playing head cases from then on.
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By Chris Thomas on Sunday, March 07, 1999 - 8:31 am:
You can also spy him in the film Urban Legend.
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By cableface on Saturday, June 05, 1999 - 3:09 pm:
At one point, Tuvok threatens the doc from inside the sick bay force field, saying he could be deleted with a few simple commands , and the doctor seemd unnerved by this.Two things.First, can it really be this easy to delete such a vital computer program?And second, given that the doctor has treated many people of less then stirling charater in sick bay, shouldn't it be impossible for anyone inside the forcefield to give the computer commands?Or is Tuvok just talking big on both counts?
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By BrianB on Friday, July 09, 1999 - 8:10 am:
UPN promoted this ep. as the show where Tuvok goes bezerk. Made you think The Beasts were playing the Ponfarr card.
Suder bears a strong resemblence to Anthony Hopkins suitable for this character.
Paris begins his ruse of returning to his malcontent ways by starting a gambling ring. What a groaner.
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By Spornan on Wednesday, April 12, 2000 - 10:23 pm:
Maybe this was mentioned before, But Tuvok talks to Neelix about Ancient Pagan ceremonies on Vulcan. If I'm not Mistaken, Pagan(ism?) is a religion in and of itself, and is not purely a synonym, for Polytheism. Of course, I could just be completely wrong.
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By Jwb52z on Wednesday, April 12, 2000 - 11:31 pm:
Spornan, lay people use the term pagan as an adjective.
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By George on Thursday, April 13, 2000 - 4:25 pm:
Starfleet doesn't execute people, right? So why does Janeway later say in "Night" that everyone would be "hanged for mutiny"?
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By Jwb52z on Thursday, April 13, 2000 - 5:58 pm:
Starfleet did execute at one time.
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By Aaron Dotter on Thursday, April 13, 2000 - 8:12 pm:
The penalty for violating General Order 7 (prohibiting contact with the Talosians) was death in the time of TOS, and that was the only crime where death was the penalty. I wonder if it still is in NextGen's time? I don't think the penalty for mutiny would be death, though. It was probably the stress.
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By Mark Morgan on Thursday, April 13, 2000 - 10:39 pm:
Spornan, lay people use the term pagan as an adjective. This, however, is Tuvok, who can dissassemble and reassemble a torpedo blindfolded.
That said, I think what you are referring to, Spornan, is modern paganism. If memory serves, "pagan" began as a convenient general term for "not Catholic."
But I Could Be Wrong™
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By Jayson Spears on Saturday, April 29, 2000 - 7:31 am:
When the Dr first diagnosed Tuvok, he picks up a padd and then walks thru the forcefield with it. Now I can understand the Dr walking thru the forcefield because he is a hologram. But the padd is not holographic. It should have bounced of the forcefield.( Kinda like in T2 when the T-1000 walks thru the bars, but the gun gets caught up)
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By Jayson Spears on Saturday, April 29, 2000 - 7:35 am:
Also Brad Dourif was also the voice of Chucky the killer doll in the Childs play movies. And he was also a freaky drug dealer in "Fatal Beauty" with Whoopie Goldberg
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By G'var on Sunday, April 30, 2000 - 12:17 am:
Maybe the padd was just a hologram too. The EMH program may have him talk to the computer and use padds and termials ad the such because that is what a huma would do. Sorta a way to make the patiets more comfortable. Sorry about the missig letter but that key has decided to stop workig toight.
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By Matt Pesti on Saturday, July 15, 2000 - 11:46 am:
Pagan is a term that means "Country Folk" in latin and was used by Urban Christians for Rustics who still followed Fertility gods, Early Christianity using Latin and being a primary Urban movement. It's used as synonmyn for the Barbarians and Viking religions. Since Early Vulcans are distained by Current Vulcans, the term makes sense.
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By Adam Bomb on Sunday, September 24, 2000 - 6:13 pm:
In the movie "Ragtime", Brad Dourif plays "Younger Brother", a man who is an apparent borderline "headcase." (Can we still say that, in this age of PC and all?) "Ragtime" is one of the most underrated and underappreciated movies ever. There is some superb acting, particularly by the late Howard Rollins as Coalhouse Walker Jr., who seizes the J.P. Morgan Library in an act of rage after his Model T is defaced. The Brad Dourif character goes over to his side toward the end. A film that should be seen, in this day of strained race relations.
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By ScottN on Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 9:32 am:
Nit. In the scene in Sickbay, where they remove Tuvok's emotional inhibitions, and he uses the forcefield to knock himself out. Janeway and Holodoc pick him up and put him on the diagnostic bed. For someone who's sedated and unconscious, Tuvok certainly helps a lot in getting himself off the floor and onto the bed.
In the X-Files episode, Beyond The Sea, he played a condemned killer, who had psychic visions.
Thanks, Cableface! I was trying to remember where I saw him before!
At one point, Tuvok threatens the doc from inside the sick bay force field, saying he could be deleted with a few simple commands
Further, Tuvok had deactivated his own security codes. I don't think he could do it without physical access to the console. <joke>Then again, maybe he would be treated as an invader, and the IFOS would let him do it!</joke>
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By ScottN on Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 9:33 am:
Incidentally, Dourif's eyes looked INCREDIBLY scary in this ep.
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By Miko Iko on Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:39 am:
And who can forget Dourif as Raymond in Blue Velvet? PBR!!!
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By Palandine on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 10:14 am:
One of my favorite episodes. I love Brad Dourif.
NANJAO--
Let's see, for his merry band of terrorists, Chakotay picked:
1. A member of the Obsidian Order, or at least a high-ranking Cardassian intelligence officer.
2. An undercover Starfleet officer.
3. A psychotic murdering Betazoid.
4. Tom Paris (was he ever part of the group?)
Nice choices. Good thing the Maquis are all dead, or some of Chuckles' old comrades might wonder a bit about him...
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By ScottN on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 7:20 pm:
Palandine, Tom was picked up by Janeway in the pilot. However, he did have BLT as one of his terrorists.
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By Vicky on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 12:20 pm:
Hey everyone,
I've noticed two nits. I think...
1) When Tuvok goes to his quarters and locks himself in, he tells the computer to delete his security code. Anyone who wanted to be a pain could just find out the code and get it deleted. In fact, Voyager isn't all that secure, is it? People say their codes out loud for everyone to overhear, what stops someone from using them?
2) Tuvok gets the computer to inform Janeway that he is unfit for duty. (On a side note, that would be an interesting message to overhear. "Captain Janeway, Tuvok's locked himself in his quarters...") Anyway, Janeway shows up with one security guard which happens to be a short woman. I've nothing against women, I am one but considering the strength of a Vulcan wouldn't a man be better as they are physically stronger? Plus, shouldn't there be more than one?
Tell me whacha think!
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By Jwb52z on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 2:52 pm:
::1) When Tuvok goes to his quarters and locks himself in, he tells the computer to delete his security code. Anyone who wanted to be a pain could just find out the code and get it deleted. In fact, Voyager isn't all that secure, is it? People say their codes out loud for everyone to overhear, what stops someone from using them?:: Vicky
It's called "voice pattern recognition." You can't use someone else's code unless you can perfectly duplicate their voice.
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By Mojo on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 3:36 pm:
Then why have the codes at all? If the voice is enough to identify the person, why bother? The fact that they say the codes out loud in front of everyone makes them worthless.
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By Jwb52z on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 3:53 pm:
Mojo, it is the code COMBINED with the voice. The codes are changed every so often.
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By X on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 9:06 pm:
::Vicky: When Tuvok goes to his quarters and locks himself in, he tells the computer to delete his security code. Anyone who wanted to be a pain could just find out the code and get it deleted. In fact, Voyager isn't all that secure, is it? People say their codes out loud for everyone to overhear, what stops someone from using them?::
My understanding was that only a code's holder can delete it using their voice.
::Vicky: Tuvok gets the computer to inform Janeway that he is unfit for duty. Anyway, Janeway shows up with one security guard which happens to be a short woman. I've nothing against women, I am one but considering the strength of a Vulcan wouldn't a man be better as they are physically stronger? Plus, shouldn't there be more than one?::
On the gender question: If the woman works out, is half-Vulcan, an expert in martial arts, I'd trust her. On the number question, I agree.
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By Anonymous on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 12:01 pm:
Brad Dourif is always worth watching.
However, there was 1 little detail that kept this episode from being a classic.
The fact that Tuvok didn't kill the real Neelix.
The icing on the cake would've been to have him kill the real Janeway as well.
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By Keith Alan Morgan (Kmorgan) on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 7:16 am:
NNANJAO: 3000 years ago Vulcans build a monestary on P'Jem.
2000 years ago Vulcans begin converting to logic.
1000 years ago Vulcans stop stripping down & covering themselves with oil to celebrate the festival of Rumari. (Tuvok says Rumari hasn't been celebrated in a millennium.)
Tuvok's obsession with finding the motive seemed unVulcan to me.
So why didn't any Betazoids notice that Suder had a problem with his violent emotions?
At one point when Tuvok & Suder are talking (post-mind meld) the use of the music was almost reminiscent of Classic Trek.
When warning Janeway, Tuvok says, "I am trained in the martial arts of many alpha quadrant species." All the martial arts I'm familiar with emphasize SELF-CONTROL, not killing & maiming.
Kes says, "I had them remove your telepathic abilities." They really must have made some advancements in this since Data said there was no way to block telepathic transmissions. (Night Terrors?)
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By Merat on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 9:15 am:
KAM, that fits nicely with the theory that Vulcans have kept many illogical practices beyond their time of reformation (I think its been called that?).
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By Chris Booton (Cbooton) on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 4:05 pm:
"This program contains scenes of violence. Parental discresion is advised"
Isn't such a warning a bit much for this ep?
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By Mr Crusher on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 11:36 am:
Where was this warning?
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By Chris Booton (Cbooton) on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 12:43 pm:
I don't remember. However, Space tends to show such warnings before Enterprise episodes.
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By Mr Crusher on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 1:31 pm:
What does the Enterprise warning say "Warning: The Following Really Sucks!" Just kidding
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By Torque, Son of Keplar on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 2:39 pm:
Because in space, there is no atmosphere so therefore, no suction.
And before you comment that there is atmosphere on board the ship, Enterprise still wouldn't $uck... it'd blows...
It took me almost the entire ep to figure out were I saw Brad Dourif, the guy who plays Suder, before. Reading this board I was reminded of a couple more but more recently was his role as Grima Wormtongue on LotR, and I agree that his eyes were freaky.
Although it's been almost five years since you posted, KAM, why is Tuvok's desire to find the motive unVulcan? That should be every law-enforcement officer's desire, and I'm sure many other occupations, but "homicidal mania" is an actual motive.
Yeah, but if I recall he seemed driven to know more than was really needed.
I'm sure there would be lots of psychiatry books by the 24th century that would have analyzed behavior like Suder's. Wanting to mind-meld to learn more seemed unVulcan, especially since Spock said that mind-meld's were highly personal things.
From Tuvok's position, I will agree that mind-melding with Suder wasn't the wisest thing to do, since he's a security officer and not a shrink, but it is his job to find motive. He did go a little overboard in doing so, namely the mind-meld, but in succombing to his curiousity he was able to discover Suder's motive while the Doc could not.
I wonder if there was a cultural shift between the TOS and TNG eras that explains why Tuvok doesn't seem to mind melding with evey Tom, Dick and Psycho on this show. Maybe it's no longer that personal, kinda like how in Hollywood, kissing on the lips is now considered casual, or something.
Don't you mean "Tom, Psycho, and Harry"? After all, I don't think they had a character named Richard or Dick
The Maquis must have been desperate to recruit Chucky!
Jwb52z: It's called "voice pattern recognition." You can't use someone else's code unless you can perfectly duplicate their voice.
That's certainly how codes in Trek should work, but they don't, especially on this show. Just a couple of episodes later Neelix uses a verbal engineer code to unlock restricted comm logs.
KAM: Tuvok's obsession with finding the motive seemed unVulcan to me.
Not only that, but despite the Doc dismissing the idea that Suder was a psychopath it's pretty clear that he is. No emotional response, to anything, is a classic symptom of psychopathy. Plus, to quote Spock; "madness has no purpose, or reason. But it may have a goal." Not every action needs a motive, especially from someone who is mentally ill, so for Tuvok to be so relentless in finding logic where none exists is indeed unVulcan. Motiveless murders have been occurring here for centuries, so I have to imagine it's happened on Vulcan as well.
I have to once again question security on Voyager. Someone is being kept behind a forcefield in sickbay for treatment and not only does the Doc, a hologram who has nothing better to do, not stay active to monitor Tuvok, but no security alarms are raised when he shorts out said forcefield. Prior to this scene, the Doc is administering an experimental treatment which causes Tuvok to shock himself unconsious. Except they don't know for sure he's actually out, and they just drop the forcefield to place him on a biobed (with Tim Russ helping them quite a bit). The problem here is that the Doc could've done this himself by walking through the forcefield, without endangering Janeway and Kes.