---Synopsis:
In a vast alien metropolis on the planet Quarra, the Janeway and other members of Voyager's crew go about their daily business as members of a large multi-species workforce, with no apparent reference to or even knowledge of their lives aboard Voyager. How this occurred is explained to Chakotay, Harry Kim, and Neelix when they return to Voyager from an away mission aboard the Delta Flyer.
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By Richie Vest
The nits: It was a good hour for Voyager. It gave everyone some scenes which they have been doing lately. By the way, the alien doctor was indeed Ralph Mouth.
1. I just have to ask did Icheb and Namoi go to work to?
Happy Nitpicking!
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By Spornan on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 1:47 pm:
First nit: They aren't going at warp in the beginning.
(We'll see if I'm right tomorrow)
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By Spornan on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 1:47 pm:
First nit: They aren't going at warp in the beginning.
(We'll see if I'm right tomorrow)
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By Spornan on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 1:48 pm:
Ack. Double posted by accident. Sorry about that.
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By Rene on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 1:49 pm:
And they won't be at warp at the end of part 2 either ;)
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By Merat on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 2:06 pm:
This looks like the StarGate SG1 episode "Beneath the Surface."
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By Spornan on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 1:31 pm:
A. You'll notice that every week when I post my nits, they are not just about them not going at warp. I add in a lot of "good" nits as well.
B. I like Star Trek. I enjoy watching Voyager. I also nitpick it, and the warp thing is a BIG nit.
C. This is not a "Let's defend Voyager" board. It's a nitpicking board. While most of us attempt to use humor and goodwill, and do like the show, this doesn't mean we're gonna pussyfoot around and not point out glaring nits.
Of course, that's assuming that wasn't just flamebait, which I'm inclined to believe it was.
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By Corey Hines on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 7:01 pm:
Some of the alien workers look like Yridiaans.
At leastthis world's got it right, 2 sets of doors for an elevator.
Tuvok must really, really hot if he's sweating. Can't Vulcans withstand temperatures 40 C
Bit curious why Seven left the ship, isn't she immune to everything?
The alien ship that attacks the Voyager when the crew is gone looks a lot like a Breen ship.
You can tell the Doctor doesn't have too much experience in command when he gives a heading of 903 mark 6.
Isn't there no question that a human with a Starfleet rank would outrank a holographic program? (I realize the whole "Disaster"(TNG) debate can start here, but Kim does have more experience in command)
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By Spornan on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 7:01 pm:
Hey, that monorail's not going warp at the beginning!
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By Rene on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 7:09 pm:
WHy didn't they "innoculate" Chakotay and Neelix?
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By Rene on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 7:10 pm:
And with all those systems down, do they really need someone to sit in the command chair?
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By Ben Cohen on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 7:41 pm:
Hey! It's Ralph Malph! What's next? Potsie directing an episode? Oh wait....
It appears that Trekweb's informant is dead on once again. I wonder who he/she is.
Really good continuity so far; Chakotay is a vegetarian, the ECH.
The Quarren(?) controls look kind of Borgish. There are even those round lightning thingies (only this time they're blue instead of green).
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By Jwb52z on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 7:43 pm:
Great Line (ECH to Kim): Maybe all that sarcasm is getting in the way of your natural charm.
That was really funny, I thought.
Ok, get ready, here's a nit for ya. I thought Janeway only said that the possibility for an ECH would be INVESTIGATED, not that it would actually happen.
::WHy didn't they "innoculate" Chakotay and Neelix?:: Rene
Perhaps it was because the Doctor had gotten rid of the radiation.
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By Rene on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 7:46 pm:
Um...the radiation was a cover. Those "innoculations" were a way to control their workers.
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By Spornan on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 7:59 pm:
Y'know, that Squiggly lined-disk thing they got over there looks an awful lot like the squiggly lined-disk thing Seven has in her alcove. And even more like the squiggly lined-disk thing they sell over at Sharper Image.
Wow...I really liked funny-Tuvok. Liked him even more when he was called Data, but that's besides the point. (that was just mean of me, wasn't it?)
A thought about Emotional Tuvok: If he apparently has no control over his emotions, and indeed no memory of this past, how come Tuvok still talks in that precise, logical way that he talked when he was himself? It would seem that manner of speaking was based on his logical outlook on the world, and not a natural speech affect. If he's no longer going about other things in a logical manner (which using emotions would attest) then why does he still talk like that?
UH OH! Delta Flyer's going at (everybody now) Impulse! Gonna take longer than five days to get back to Voyager at that rate.
Hey! The ECH is back! That makes this entire episode worthwhile.
Somesorta alert. Doc says "We hit some sort of a subspace mine"
Is it just me, or are Tuvok's ears lookin' kinda strange in this episode?
Another Is it just me moment (IIJM), but does Janeway seem kinda...drunk or something? She's kinda loopy. And she and her boss (or whatever) seem to get involved really quickly. It's very akward.
Wow, in just about three weeks time, B'elanna went from no signs of pregnancy to a rather bulging stomach. Of course, Star Trek time and real life time aren't really the same....except in my dreams.
I am in complete awe with the restorative powers of the Starship Voyager. Left battered and beaten with only one crew member (with three more later on) it is at near perfect condition by the time they visit the planet Quarra. If any ship is to be considered "Top of the line" it's Voyager.
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By Spockania on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:08 pm:
So how exactly do these subspace mines work anyway? Are they like those houdini mines from DS9's 'Siege of AR-558'? I don't understand why the ship didn't pick them up. They also seem to do little physical damage but instead flood the ship with radiation. That seems a bit odd.
So, is Tom Paris still getting 'radiation' injections? I thought he quit his job and it might be odd if his boss the barkeep covered as a doctor.
Was this radiation so severe they couldn't use suits? Or how about hanging out in shuttles until the doc floods the radiation. Perhaps they've finally run out!
If Janeway transferred the command codes to the ECH, wouldn't that allow him to copyprotect his program from erasure?
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By Ben Cohen on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:15 pm:
Wow, in just about three weeks time, B'elanna went from no signs of pregnancy to a rather bulging stomach.
What is she now? 20 weeks along? She should be showing (and she was showing rather severely in "Prophecy").
Where were the ECH's pips? Remember how they popped out in "TTDS"? They would have been a really "nice touch" (as Harry would say).
Not a nit, just an observation: the older Donny Most gets, the more he looks like Joe Lieberman (even more so than the dad from ALF, IMHO).
Next week: a sneak peek at Seven like we've always wanted to see her. One can only hope that by this they mean dressed in something a lot more decent than the usual tight fitting leotard (I doubt it).
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By PaulG on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:18 pm:
Chuckles cannot be transported. Kim's explanation is that he had to raise the shields. It appears they can't transport through the shields. Yes, I feel somewhat vindicated from "Flesh and Blood". :P
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By Rebe on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:18 pm:
If I am not mistaken, this episode is simply called "Workforce" and not "Workforce, Part 1". What is it with Voyager and the lack of "Part 1" in recent two parter episode titles?
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By Shane Tourtellotte on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:19 pm:
Do all those injections provide the ability for Voyager's crewmembers to read the local language? I could also carp about how they suppress personal memories, but not the technical know-how they need to be useful workers--but with the right knowledge of neurotransmitters and such, that might almost be plausible.
7 of 9 needs to regenerate in order to survive, right? (I know that's been mentioned, perhaps in the episode with Icheb's parents, and perhaps in others.) How is she doing so on this planet, without her alcove?
"Heading 903 mark 6"? Computer, deactivate the Emergency Command Hologram until it learns how to count to 360. ;-)
If all these ships were hunting for Voyager(the reason why it hid in the nebula), it's quite a fortunate coincidence that the Flyer didn't stumble onto any of them.
During a close-up of Tuvok as he came out of a flashback, I noticed that his left ear is pierced! Apparently the Tuvester had been loosening up even before he came to this planet.
(Oh, and to Spockania: The ECH mentioned he had shut down life support. That's why Chakotay and Kim needed suits.)
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By Shane Tourtellotte on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:23 pm:
An added comment. One of our colleagues has stated in the past that 7 of 9 needs her high heels for the structural support built into them, using an interview with one of the writers or producers as his source. Well, she's going without those heels on this world, and she hasn't crumpled to the ground a broken woman yet. Seems like that interview information may not be worth much as a canonical source.
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By Rene on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:26 pm:
Let's have fun watching JWB trying to explain this one.
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By Spockania on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:30 pm:
Shane, I know that life support was offline when Kim and Chuckles beamed aboard. My comment was directed to the initial evacuation of the ship. I think that at least some of the crew could have hung around in shuttles (assuming they have any left) or even in Nelix's ship (which they did have). And that is assuming the eva suits couldn't protect the crew long enough to get rid of the radiation.
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By PaulG on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:36 pm:
Rene: One possible explanation is that Neelix and Chuckles are voluntary workers. Mind control would not be necessary. Then again, in a strong job market, they may not want to take that chance. Their medical exams may have been scheduled for a later date...
***POTENTIAL SPOILER ALERT (THOUGH PROBABLY NOT)***
Spornan: Though I have no insider info, I would not be surprised if Janeway was programmed to fall in love with him. Perhaps he found her attractive and pulled a favor with the brainwashers.
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By Shane Tourtellotte on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:44 pm:
Spockania: Ah. Thanks for setting me straight. And you're right: the one time they could have used Infinite Shuttles(tm), they don't bother with them. It's also kinda odd that nobody in the escape pods signaled to Voyager and the ECH that they were being picked up. Jamming field? (Quite plausible, I guess.)
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By Rene on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:45 pm:
"One possible explanation is that Neelix and Chuckles are voluntary workers. Mind control would not be necessary"
But wouldn't it be unwise to mix volunteers with controlled people? I mean...think of the conversations :
Controlled Worker : "Time for our injections..."
Volunteer : "What injections?"
Controlled Worker : "For the radiation..."
Volunteer : "I never heard anything about radiation..."
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By PaulG on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 9:01 pm:
Rene: Good point.
OK, try this one. Janeway was drugged immediately because she would want to leave. They could wait until the regular injections for Neelix & Chuckles because they would want to stay.
If you can break that one, I am all out of ideas.
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By GCapp on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 9:13 pm:
when Chakotay and Kim beam aboard, the Doctor talks to them, yet we learn that life support is down. I thought, how do vocal interfaces and personal conversations work in zero atmosphere.
During a commercial break, I decided that the atmosphere is still normal pressure, but it is "bad air" - perhaps unrecycled and containing a lot of contaminants. That would justify EVA suits, while still making it possible to carry sound waves.
Up above, someone noted Tuvok as being "Data". I think you meant Tuvix or when Tuvok was a culinary artist and enjoyed Neelix's company.
I think I know why the subspace mine (good thing Flyer didn't encounter one) didn't do much more than act like a neutron bomb: the aliens came along to collect their "salvage" - their attitude toward the ECH was that of people who didn't want any life forms aboard so that they could claim salvage rights and harvest all that marvy technology.
Theorizing about next week, I don't see how they'll find everyone unless they break the mind control on ALL of the "guest workers".
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By Jwb52z on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 9:30 pm:
::Um...the radiation was a cover. Those "innoculations" were a way to control their workers.:: Rene
The radiation was real. It was caused when that mine exploded near Voyager. The inoculation was fake, yes, but the effects of the radiation were real. If it was not, those eruptions on their bodies would not have been there.
::Well, she's going without those heels on this world, and she hasn't crumpled to the ground a broken woman yet. Seems like that interview information may not be worth much as a canonical source.:: Shane Tourtellotte
You all told me that not everything the creators say is canonical, so there's nothing left to say, even though I don't like that idea.
::when Chakotay and Kim beam aboard, the Doctor talks to them, yet we learn that life support is down. I thought, how do vocal interfaces and personal conversations work in zero atmosphere.:: GCapp
First of all, air doesn't disappear and since there were no hull breeches the air wouldn't have escaped. Second of all, since the Doctor is not humanoid, he wouldn't need air so he wouldn't breathe it and use it up.
::Up above, someone noted Tuvok as being "Data". I think you meant Tuvix or when Tuvok was a culinary artist and enjoyed Neelix's company.:: GCapp
That was a bad joke by Spornan. He meant that Data and Tuvok are alike in that way since it was very similar to the time when Data finally got his emotion chip.
::Theorizing about next week, I don't see how they'll find everyone unless they break the mind control on ALL of the "guest workers".:: GCapp
Obviously they know what species are supposed to be aboard Voyager so they just scan for them.
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By Spornan on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 9:45 pm:
Yeah, it was a bad joke. I was just pointing out that Tuvok's description of the joke was reminscent of Data.
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By aifix on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 9:45 pm:
Wonderful opening shot -- another reminiscent of the Krell underground from Forbidden Planet.
So Voyager only needs a hologram to run its defensive systems. What do they need a tactical officer, or even a helmsman for?
More "appreciation" from Janeway -- she says to her friend "I appreciate your..." ("help", I think. Forgot to write it down). And later Harry says to the Doc "I appreciate your input." (Hey, Spornan's beating me to the somekindas/somesortas!)
WTW -- can you explain why they don't spend five minutes coming up with better titles? What's the finale going to be called? "Finale", "Home", or something equally banal?
I thought the bartender was particularly sensuous. Kept waiting for her to emit an Eartha Kitt purr. Rrrrooowwrrrr!
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By Keith Alan Morgan (Kmorgan) on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 11:40 pm:
Some nice FX at the beginning. Amazing what they can do when they spend a little money.
If Novarans procreate differently, then why was he interested in being with Janeway? Also makes one wonder what happened when they spent the night together?
(I wonder if Novarans, like wasps, deposit eggs inside of living hosts?)
Harry says that in 6 years he's never been on a worse Away Mission. So those parasites are worse than dying, twice? (Emissions)
Anyone think of other bad Away Missions?
(Possibly Ex Post Facto, I think he had been beaten up when forced to leave the planet without Tom.)
Why would a Hologram, which is projected light, need a flashlight?
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By Newt on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 12:19 am:
The opening squenence was great. A huge change from the some times subpar FX shots we see sometimes. In fact this episode had a lot of very nice FX throughout.
It also had a semidecent cliffhanger ending too.
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By ScottN on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 12:27 am:
Nice scene at the end when Chekov is running away from the cops... oops I mean Chakotay.
That scene was almost straight out of STIV:TVH, except that Chuckles didn't fall at the end.
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By warp17 on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 3:59 am:
Perhaps they don't brainwash, umm.. "innoculate" anyone that is willing to work for them, only when they want to stop working. Since Chakotay and Neelix seem happy there already why waste time on them?
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By Rene on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 5:49 am:
It's not a waste of time. If you're using mind control on workers, might as well use it on volunteers as well, so not to arouse any suspicion.
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By Brian Lombard on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 6:24 am:
I think the writers have been paying attention to us. Tuvok's mental abilities have been subpar to say the least (i.e., how easily he fell under Borg influence). But this time, it seems to be because of his mental abilities that he's able to shake off the effects of the drug. Hope management is keeping an eye on Vorik and that Maquis Vulcan as well.
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By Miko Iko on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 9:01 am:
Some nice touches, pretty good so far, though I think I can see some upcoming plot points a mile away.
I liked the ambiguity surrounding Janeway's Novaran boyfriend. Just enough hints that he may not be all that he appears to be, though it's never confirmed.
Agreed re: the Vulcans. I hope they play a major role in the second part.
Lousy ending, though. I am left with the distinct feeling that Chuckles will get away. Had the screenwriters been willing to have him captured they should have done so to end part I. It would have been much more dramatic to have him being forcably injected just before the words "To Be Continued" appear rather than the way they did it.
::Theorizing about next week, I don't see how they'll find everyone unless they break the mind control on ALL of the "guest workers".:: GCapp
My prediction, and I hope I'm wrong, is that Doc will devise an airborn anti-serum using what he gleans from B'elanna and they will have a mission to release it into the plant's air control system.
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By ScottN on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 9:22 am:
I liked the ambiguity surrounding Janeway's Novaran boyfriend. Just enough hints that he may not be all that he appears to be, though it's never confirmed.
I agree, especially the way he reacted when Chakotay and Neelix invited them to join them for lunch. He seemed suspicious, and then had to ask Janeway to move in to cover for himself. At least, that's how I saw it.
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By Merat on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 10:32 am:
Perhapse the reason we won't see Vomit er.. Vorik or any other Vulcans next week (I'm speculating we won't) is because Tuvok spent some time as a Disciple of Kohlinar before having to give it up for Pon Farr.
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By Spornan on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 11:23 am:
Might be nice if the reason why Tuvok is resisting the brainwashing is because his earlier encounters with mind control have helped his mind get stronger or something.
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By PaulG on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 11:56 am:
::::Um...the radiation was a cover. Those "innoculations" were a way to control their workers.:: Rene
::The radiation was real. It was caused when that mine exploded near Voyager. The inoculation was fake, yes, but the effects of the radiation were real. If it was not, those eruptions on their bodies would not have been there. :: Jwb52z
There is some confusion here. Let me try to explain.
First, we have the mine. This irradiated the ship, poisoned everyone and forced everyone but the Doc to abandon ship. The Doc then vented the ship of the radiation before the return of the away mission.
Second, we have the innoculations on the planet. The actual purpose of these innoculations is mind control but the workers (at least where Janeway works) are told they are necessary to protect them from radiation which comes from the workplace. It is possible that these injections also cure the radiation disease caused by the mines but that is just speculation at this point.
Just for the record, the only innoculations shown on screen were the mind control variety.
I also wonder how exactly the Doc "vented" the ship's radiation. Did this involve expelling the internal atmosphere? Maybe there actually was no air when the away team arrived.
KMorgan: Well, Kim and Torres crash landed in "Muse". He got stuck on the time warp planet and had to eat spiders on a desolate rock in "Gravity". Race 8472 put him on his death bed in "Scorpion". He nearly went insane and killed Tom in "The Chute". He was almost killed in "Latent Image". All of these could be classified as away missions (as in away from Voyager) and they appear just a bit more serious than a stomach ache. Then again, Kim may just be exaggerating to get some sympathy or he has a somewhat poor memory when his tummy hurts.
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By PaulG on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 12:01 pm:
ADDITION: And Kim was seriously traumatized by planted memories in "Memorial". The hits just keep on coming. I am surprised he can sleep at night.
By Rene on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 12:04 pm:
Give him a break. He had a tummy ache. He wasn't thinking straight.
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By Hans Thielman on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 12:13 pm:
Apparently being brainwashed hasn't improved Janeway's cooking skills any.
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By ScottN on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 12:18 pm:
I thought it was Paris stuck with Tuvok in "Gravity"?
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By Miko Iko on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 12:30 pm:
ScottN- you're right about "Gravity".
But, more importantly, just two words in defense of Harry Kim: Meat Nectar.
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By Jwb52z on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 1:18 pm:
::I also wonder how exactly the Doc "vented" the ship's radiation. Did this involve expelling the internal atmosphere? Maybe there actually was no air when the away team arrived.:: PaulG
Deirradiation would not be accomplished just by decompressing the ship and losing the atmosphere. It has to be something that will purify the ship by neutralizing the radiation. that's not what would happen by simply getting rid of the air in the ship.
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By PaulG on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 2:00 pm:
::I thought it was Paris stuck with Tuvok in "Gravity"?
DOH! ;-)
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By ScottN on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 2:11 pm:
Oh, and more on Harry's fun away missions...
Don't forget about "Harry and the Vampire Women from the Delta Quadrant" -- I mean "Favorite Son". Though he probably did enjoy it... AT FIRST!
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By Ghel on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 2:31 pm:
I noticed something interesting. Notice how quickly the EMH . . .er the ECH responded to the attacking ship?!? One shot and he was already returning fire. Maybe the Holodoc should be in command all the time. Janeway never responds that fast, nor did Harry Kim later in the episode, nor Riker for that matter!
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By The Undesirable Element on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 3:46 pm:
I don't really understand Aral Kotay's (Is that his REAL name?) reasoning for kidnapping B'Ellana.
1. Jumping a Klingon is never wise.
2. Jumping a pregnant woman can have serious repercussions.
3. Following someone down a dark alley that is NOT deserted is very suspicious and will arouse suspicion.
4. Neelix and Chakotay looked pretty menacing as they were following B'Ellana.
5. Leaving someone behind AFTER someone is alerted to your presence is unwise.
Speaking of number five, Neelix and B'Ellana beam up and less than ten seconds later, Chakotay calls for beam out. I don't see how that's smart.
Next Nit:
Why the whole coverup with B'Ellana's baby? Why not just let Paris and Torres stay married. It would arouse less suspicion since the baby is his. And it would make B'Ellana happy since she doesn't seem to pleased about being raped or whatever she thinks happened to her.
Final Nit:
When Neelix's vessel (which holds the longevity record for shuttles along side the Rio Grande from DS9) exits Voyager, the thing needs the whole doorway. It looks like it can barely fit. If it's that big, where the heck do they keep it? It wasn't visible in "Counterpoint" or "Prophecy"
MISSED OPPORTUNITY:
Chakotay's undercover makeup should have been Cardassian. If anything would make a crew remember their former (and for some, anti-Cardassian) lives, it would be a Cardassian. It would also be better than the standard bumps.
Excellent episode. Looking forward to next week.
See ya later
TUE
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By Adam Bomb on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 4:17 pm:
Guest Star Patrol : James Read was in the first season of "Remington Steele" (with the man who would be Bond, Pierce Brosnan.)
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By Merat on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 5:35 pm:
You know, when Chuckles bumped into Torres, I thought for sure that he would have stuck his Commbadge or a Varidian patch (sp?) to her back like in Star Trek VI. Oh well. He isn't exactly "the master tactician" is he?
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By Adam Bomb on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 6:52 pm:
If Chakotay disguised himself as a Cardassian, maybe he would have resembled Seska, a person I'm sure he would rather forget.
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By Dustin Westfall on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 8:36 pm:
I don't blame Tuvok for being scared of the injections. I would be too if I had Ralph Malph for a doctor.
This is the first time we've seen the sub-cutaneous (sic?) communicator since Who Watches the Watchers, isn't it? I wonder why they don't use them more often; I would think that they would be quite useful.
Do we have any direct evidence that the injections are the mind control itself? When they first injected Janeway, they put a device around her head. Perhaps the injections are simply a sedative so that they can use the device on them.
Neelix sure blends in well when he wants to. He follows Bellana by a whole five yards on a fairly quiet street while staring right at her. I'm surprised she didn't turn and attack him.
I'm curious why Chakotay just stands there at the end. He's looking down as if he is thinking of jumping, but he showed a couple of times that there is a forcefield in the way. So, what, exactly, does he hope to gain by standing there?
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By Jwb52z on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 8:41 pm:
::This is the first time we've seen the sub-cutaneous (sic?) communicator since Who Watches the Watchers, isn't it? I wonder why they don't use them more often; I would think that they would be quite useful.:: Dustin Westfall
Ok, this is just a theory, RENE, but perhaps putting something under the skin has medical ramifications if done too often to the same person.
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By Merry on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 6:25 am:
Regarding Harry's tummy ache. When I have trouble like that I just grab some pepto bismol or immodium. It doesn't get rid of the cause, but it does help the symptoms. Why can't Harry just ask the replicator to synthesize something to control his nausea till he gets back to Voyager?
Merry
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By Anonymous on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 7:30 am:
I think it would be better to have Ralph Malph as my doctor than Chachi.
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By Anonymous on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 7:35 am:
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
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By aifix on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 7:46 am:
:: Ok, this is just a theory, RENE, but perhaps putting something under the skin has medical ramifications if done too often to the same person.::
Seems like they have no qualms about doing facial surgery, changing bone structure and surface features at the drop of a hat. And we have people today with pacemakers and the like.
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By Jwb52z on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 10:12 am:
aifix, it is different having something implanted under the skin and removed alot from having something put in for a medical reason and left there. Reconstructive surgery isn't that dangerous, especially with a doctor like the Doctor. He knows what he is doing.
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By PaulG on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 10:28 am:
Dustin: Considering that the injections are performed daily and they were used as part of Janeway's and Tuvok's brainwashing, they most likely have some role in the mind control. But you may be right that the machine does the actual brainwashing. Perhaps the injections are complementary to the machine or perhaps they act as "boosters". Maybe the next episode will provide more details.
Rene: I think I finally came up with an explanation why Chuckles and Neelix were not injected. They did not report for the injections. Tuvok was able to avoid them for several days before Ms. Efficiency noticed.
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By The Spoiler on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 10:49 am:
According to a report at Dark Horizions (and Miqque on the Web), you can expect Paramount to launch an all-out publicity blitz for the last nine Voyager episodes. The report also suggests that plans for Series V will be firmed up by the last Voyager episode, with an eye to start “sneaking“ or “leaking“ tidbits of information at that time (when Q-factor is highest). Wouldn't at all be surprised if there are announcements about Star Trek: X around the same time
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By Ghel on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 12:19 pm:
Well, it actually just hit me. If the actual mind control is done by the machines, and the injections were just a drug that opened the workers minds up (forcibly perhaps) to suggestion, then Chuckles and Nelix could have received the injections with no ill effects. Since they were volunteers, there was no need to "rewrite" them with the machines.
This would also allow "real" employees to get injections along side of conditioned employees.
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By bela okmyx on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 12:54 pm:
At the beginning of the teaser, Janeway and two other workers board an elevator that plummets about 50 feet in about 5 seconds. None of the three grabs a handrail, even though it looks like the elevator is dropping fast enough to induce weightlessness.
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By Newt on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 1:52 pm:
It's possible that the elevator had somekinda (oh no, a somekinda) artifical gravity system ala the turbolifts that would minimize or nullify the effects of the rapid movement.
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By Amos on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 2:00 pm:
I hate to derail everyone's nitpicking but has is been indicated in anything other than conjecture that the injections aren't really for radiation? Or that they are for mind control.
Our only evidence is that Tuvok remembered things and didn't take his. Personally I thought the injection was a mental trigger that allowed him to overcome the blocked memories he had. Since he still have memories surface after the shown injection. It seemed to me that the memory wipe/modification didn't work on our pal Mr. Vulcan.
Personally my take on this situation is that the crew was kidnapped not by the government but something aliken to slavers who after messing with there memories turned them over to the government. Like some kind of extreme corporate headhunters.
But of course this is as much conjecture as the "injections are mind control" theory.
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By The Undesirable Element on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 2:27 pm:
The subdermal communicator:
Think about all the times that crewmembers are captured. Each time they capture a crewmember, what's the first thing they do? Remove the commbadge. If they know that the captured crewmember has a communicator inside his hand, the capturers may not have any qualms about ripping it out with a knife or chopping off the hand completely. These are not painless procedures I might add.
See ya later
TUE
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By Q on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 3:03 pm:
What about Naomi and Icheb?
And why don't we see any members of the crew besides the main characters?
As for the innoculations - it's possible there are two types, one for voluntary workers and one for kidnapped workers. Voluntary workers like Chakotay and Neelix probably recieve a placebo.
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By Ben Cohen on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 3:40 pm:
why don't we see any members of the crew besides the main characters?
We did. Several Bolians were used as fillers and several crewman (including Tal Celes - Neelix used her last name as her sirname which as we all know is incorrect given her Bajoran heritage) were mentioned.
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By Adam Bomb on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 5:25 pm:
WHERE THE HECK ARE THE EQUINOX FIVE?
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By The Powers That Be on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 7:29 pm:
Who? You're talking crazy.
Equinox five. Utter lunacy, that is!
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By Rene on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 7:31 pm:
'But of course this is as much conjecture as the "injections are mind control" theory.'
Um....theory? Tuvok misses injections...He starts remembering. WHat else do you want?
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By Amos on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 9:25 pm:
Tuvok started remembering before he missed the injection. He had his subconcious fear of the injections, a flashback, and they still gave him the injection. And his memories kept coming back.
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By MOSES on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 12:38 am:
Excellent plan for escape.....
The EMS dons a red robe with black stripes, grows a long, white beard, picks up a long pole and yells, "Let my people go!!!!!"
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By Anonymous on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 8:33 am:
I don't think the fact that in the previous mention of a ech they were just looking into designing it qualifies as a nit...that was a year ago and have had a chance to work it out (nice to see it not as dramatic as the doctor originally envisioned it). I also agree that once Chakotay was aboard the ech should have gone back to an emh, since a commanding officer was now there.
It was a better episode than I thought it would be, although the lame "we were away just long enough to miss the crisis and are now back in time to solve the whole thing" device is running a little stale. They started it back in "Timescape" and "Genesis" on tng and now a few times here on Voyager. Remember the macor-virus episode?
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By Jwb52z on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 11:09 am:
::I also agree that once Chakotay was aboard the ech should have gone back to an emh, since a commanding officer was now there.:: Anonymous
The problem with your idea is that apparently only the captain can turn the ECH on and off by use of her command code.
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By PaulG on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 11:12 am:
Rene & Amos: Amos has a point. While the anti-radiation injections seem too convenient and the writers focus our attention upon them, the injections may just be anti-radiation injections. Amos' explanation is plausible and my review of the episode does not find any concrete evidence (though there is plenty of suspicious activity) that these injections are anything but what the aliens say they are. Perhaps the brain machine does all the work.
Of course, the next episode may tell us whose theory is correct. I still think the injections have something to do with the mind control but I also have devised another theory. Perhaps the anti-radiation serum is only a temporary cure and if they do not get daily injections, the disease will return. This would be a good fail-safe in case someone tried to escape - the escapee would either have to return or die.
Rene, some anti-nits are actually well reasoned and worthy of consideration. Do not reject them out of hand because of the irrational efforts of others. I have to remind myself of that regularly. ;-)
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By Amos on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 12:23 pm:
thanks PaulG
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By Rene on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 1:46 pm:
I don't get it. It's obvious that the injections are for mind control.
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By Spornan on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 4:36 pm:
::The problem with your idea is that apparently only the captain can turn the ECH on and off by use of her command code. ::
That's kinda flawed logic though. The ECH is for use when the Captain is no longer around. Be that killed, sick, injured, kidnapped. For most of those cases, the Captain wouldn't be around to use/transfer her command codes in the first place.
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By Jwb52z on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 5:02 pm:
How is it flawed logic? Since the purpose of the ECH is to replace the Captain when all the other senior staff is gone, she would logically begin the ECH's program before things got too bad for her to do so, but she knew things probably would. That's not flawed logic as far as I can tell.
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By Anonymous on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 6:33 pm:
Jwb52z--
what if some super advanced specious beamed on board from out of sensor ranged and instantly killed everyone on board?
There is *no* way that Janeway could prepare for that, and hence the ECH would never be turned on to defend the (now crewless) Voyager.
Granted, that scenerio is a bit exaggerated, but I'm sure you can think of other parallel events.
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By Jwb52z on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 6:38 pm:
::what if some super advanced specious beamed on board from out of sensor ranged and instantly killed everyone on board?:: Anonymous
That's the only case that it wouldn't work. That's so unlikely, even for Star Trek. I just hope that the ECH can turn itself on somehow, but it doesn't look like it so far.
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By Adam Bomb on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 7:01 pm:
Not utter lunacy, TPTB. We have yet to follow up on the five survivors of the Equinox since "Equinox, Part II." They were all stripped of rank and made bottom-level crewmen. It is almost the end of the series and I would like to see what happened to them.
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By The Powers That Be on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 7:18 pm:
We have no idea what you're talking about. Sounds like complete malarky to us! We've never heard of this "Equinox five"
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By Jumping on the Bandwagon on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 2:38 am:
TPTB:
Who is Gene Roddenberry?
What is Warp?
What did you think of previous Star Trek's like Deep Space Nine, The Next Generation or the original series?
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By SLUGBUG on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 3:00 am:
First nit: They aren't going at warp in the beginning.
(We'll see if I'm right tomorrow)
sporman........ Wouldn't they have to BE at warp to hit a 'subspace' mine? Also your Voyager bashing has gotten tedious. get a CONSTRUCTIVE hobby, ok?
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By PaulG on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 10:45 am:
ECH Programming: It would very easy to program the ECH so it could be flexible in its activation. A little potential pseudo-code:
If A Voyager Crewman Is Available Then
>Accept Commands From Highest Ranking Officer
Else {No Crew Available}
If Emergency Then
>Enable Self-Activation
End If
Similar code could be written for the deactivation.
It would be a fatal flaw if the ECH could only be enabled by Janeway or even by a senior officer. There could very well be situations where the crew could be kidnapped or disabled and the ECH would be their only hope.
In any case, all we know so far is that Janeway can activate the ECH. We know nothing about other situations where she would not be available.
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By Jackknight on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 12:14 pm:
The one thing that had me the most confused about this episode is: what do the brainwashed crew members think they're doing on the planet? Do they have implanted memories of living their entire lives there? Do they remember how they got their jobs? I would think that it must be severely disorienting for them, unless they each receive somekinda complete and personalized false-memory package during "inoculation". Come to think of it, maybe that's what the head contraption is for--false memory implantation. The "inoculations" would be for keeping the prisoners docile (or for reinforcing the false memories). That would explain why they put Tuvok in the head contraption; he needed a lot more memory work done than simple reinforcement, since he had already begun remembering his past life.
And I agree that it's difficult to see how everyone will be saved; even allowing for the possibility of scanning for each crew member individually, unless they're left a lot of time to scan the planet, it seems unlikely.
It might also be a good idea to see if they could retrieve all of those escape pods--otherwise, we better see them missing in all future FX shots. I see a nit coming!
Did Janeway's boyfriend remind anyone else of Mark? Maybe he was "made-to-order" under the mind-control scheme, but if not, I thought it was a nice touch that she was attracted to a guy who looked a lot like someone else she'd been attracted to. It reminded me of Picard and Nella Daren in "Lessons", and how one of TPTB once said it was eerie how much that actress resembled Gates McFadden.
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By Jwb52z on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 1:03 pm:
::sporman........ Wouldn't they have to BE at warp to hit a 'subspace' mine? Also your Voyager bashing has gotten tedious. get a CONSTRUCTIVE hobby, ok?:: SLUGBUG
Something can be partially in subspace and be set to detect things outside it and blow up accordingly as long as it is not entirely inside subspace.
::The one thing that had me the most confused about this episode is: what do the brainwashed crew members think they're doing on the planet? Do they have implanted memories of living their entire lives there? Do they remember how they got their jobs? I would think that it must be severely disorienting for them, unless they each receive somekinda complete and personalized false-memory package during "inoculation". Come to think of it, maybe that's what the head contraption is for--false memory implantation. The "inoculations" would be for keeping the prisoners docile (or for reinforcing the false memories). That would explain why they put Tuvok in the head contraption; he needed a lot more memory work done than simple reinforcement, since he had already begun remembering his past life.:: Jackknight
As far as we can tell, they've had false memorize implanted or their own were changed around.
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By Spornan, two Ns on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 2:58 pm:
::sporman........ Wouldn't they have to BE at warp to hit a 'subspace' mine? Also your Voyager bashing has gotten tedious. get a CONSTRUCTIVE hobby, ok?::
Don't confuse nitpicking with bashing, as many people seem to be doing lately. Just cause I joke around about warp (which is a nit) doesn't mean I'm insulting the show.
This isn't the Voyager fan board. It's the Voyager nitpicking board. We NITPICK. I try to do it with a sense of humor, hence my "That monorail isn't going at warp!" jokes, but I still nitpick. Insulting me for it is kinda silly, since that's what we're here for.
And I will stop with the warp "thing" when Voyager stops with the impulse "thing".
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By Rene on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 3:01 pm:
So...never? ;)
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By Spornan on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 3:44 pm:
Certainly seems that way. :p
By Dustin Westfall on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 4:23 pm:
>The one thing that had me the most confused about this episode is: what do the brainwashed crew members think they're doing on the planet? Do they have implanted memories of living their entire lives there? Do they remember how they got their jobs? I would think that it must be severely disorienting for them, unless they each receive somekinda complete and personalized false-memory package during "inoculation".
-Jackknight
Janeway does mention that she is from Earth, which is a long way away. I'm not sure what details she has as to how she got here, but she does know where she comes from.
>Come to think of it, maybe that's what the head contraption is for--false memory implantation. The "inoculations" would be for keeping the prisoners docile (or for reinforcing the false memories). That would explain why they put Tuvok in the head contraption; he needed a lot more memory work done than simple reinforcement, since he had already begun remembering his past life.
-Jackknight
Did they put Tuvok in the machine again at the end? I must have missed that part. If so, it adds weight to the theory that the injections aren't so much the mind-control itself but rather, at most a part of the process or, at least, a sedative to keep the patient still during the process.
I agree that that the ECH should have been deactivated once Chakotay came on board and took command. The fact that the Captain activated him should be irrelevant as Chakotay, in the absence of Captain Janeway, is acting-Captain. It is possible that Chakotay was more concerned with repairing the ship and retrieving the crew than dealing with the issue of whether or not to keep the ECH online.
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By Dustin Westfall on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 4:43 pm:
>Ok, this is just a theory, RENE, but perhaps putting something under the skin has medical ramifications if done too often to the same person.
-Jwb52z
That is possible, but I would think that some mention would be made. Plus, this technology was first seen back in TOS ("Patterns of Force", I believe). In that time, I would imagine that any issues with long term use would be addressed, or the technology would be adapted accordingly.
> 'But of course this is as much conjecture as the "injections are mind control" theory.'
>Um....theory? Tuvok misses injections...He starts remembering. WHat else do you want?
-Rene
Talk about simplistic logic. Just because one event follows another doesn't mean that the events are even related, let alone cause and effect. Here's an example to illustrate my point:
1. I arrive late to work on Monday.
2. Later in the day on Monday, I am fired.
Now, does this mean that I was fired for being late? No. That is possible, but there are many other possibilities that we simply have too little information to theorize about. I hope that the process will become more clear once the second part airs.
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By Rene on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 4:47 pm:
"Talk about simplistic logic"
This is Voyager we are talking about.
"Here's an example to illustrate my point:"
Oh wow! Tell me more, mr. Vulcan.
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By Vicki on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 6:10 pm:
Icheb is probably a worker like everyone else. Where are Naomi and the Borg Baby? If the workers leave their children in a daycare center, the children probably have received the false memory injections also. It annoys me that the Borg Baby has never been seen or mentioned again. They did the same thing with Naomi for numerous episodes after her birth I heard that the only reason Naomi was in Part 2 of the episodes when Seska took over the ship was because during the summer hiatus, TPTB received numerous letters asking why the baby wasn't mentioned in part 1.
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By Jwb52z on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 6:58 pm:
Vicki, unless they get a real baby to play the Borg Baby it will never be seen again. It was a borrowed animatronic baby that was VERY expensive and hard for them to even get to use. They had to borrow it.
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By PaulG on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 7:17 pm:
Vicki: They may have dropped off the Borg baby with the other Borglings in "Imperfection", though I am unsure. In any case, the amazing disappearing Borg baby is one of the classic Voyager nits. Even if the baby puppet was expensive, there are ways to have the baby in episodes without the puppet. Even a little dialogue would have been appreciated.
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By Rene on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 7:18 pm:
That doesn't change the fact we never find out what happens to it.
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By Scott McClenny on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 7:19 pm:
The only thing I find wrong with the episode is
that they broke up Tom and Harry,they're like
the Lenny and Squiggy of VOYAGER!
In the first bar scene Tuvok is shown laughing!
From what was shown it seems that they only had
their Long Term Memories wiped,their Short Term
Memories were still in place so that they could
remember who they were,so why does Tuvok laugh?
Great Scene when Tuvok does the Mindmeld with
Seven.
This is only the second time that Seven refers
to herself by her human name,the other was in
DARK FRONTIER,part 2.
Actually I'd perfer either Laverne DeFazio or
Shirley Feeney to be the Doctor(perferably Shirley!)instead of Ralph Malph.Well at least
Ralph Malph isn't Lenny or Squiggy..even better
how about The Fonz as the Doctor!
(Shirley I jest! sister of Beau Geste!!!)
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By Aaron Dotter on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 8:25 pm:
The Quarren must buy their ships from the Breen- they looked similar(to me anyway)
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By ScottN on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 9:50 pm:
Lenny was the clown in "The Thaw".
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By Dustin Westfall on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 12:36 am:
>>"Talk about simplistic logic"
>This is Voyager we are talking about.
>>"Here's an example to illustrate my point:"
>Oh wow! Tell me more, mr. Vulcan.
-Rene
My apologies if that came off as insulting. However, I stand by the statements.
Moreover, after watching the repeat airing this evening, I rescind my statement that the injections could be a sedative, at least in regards to the continuing injections. The first time the injections are shown, they are being administered in the workplace, where it would be quite inappropriate to knock out your workers out.
Instead, I now think the injections might be exactly what they claim, an injection to combat the effects of radiation. Tuvok had his first recovered memory before his first scheduled injection. (I say it was his first because he was hesitant and asked if there was any other way to administer it. It was also Janeway's first, since she didn't recognize the signal for the injections.) I think that the mind control is performed solely by the machine shown in the flash-backs. The reason for Tuvok's memory might have something to do with his Vulcan heritage. Remember, Crusher was unable to erase the memory of the Mintakan, a vulcanoid race, in "Who Watches the Watchers." (My 2nd comparison to that ep on this board. Wierd.) It may be that their brains store memories differently than other humanoid species. Vorik should, theoretically, be experiencing the same reaction. How much you want to bet we won't even hear about him next week?
>how about The Fonz as the Doctor!
-Scott McClenny
Now that would be something.
"Doc, I have a headache."
Fonz slaps the patient like a jukebox.
"That worked, Thanks."
"Hey." ;)
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By Andreas Schindel on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 2:01 am:
How can I add this funny smilies to a message, and how can I post italic, bold or red text?
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By Spornan, Lord of the Smilies on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 2:13 am:
Over on your right, under "Documentation" there should be a link that says "Formatting." That should explain everything except the smilies.
So far, I know of only two for this board, which can be done by combining
: )
and
: (
without the space in between.
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By KAM on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 2:38 am:
Also a grinning face which is a colon : next to a capital O.
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By Brian Lombard on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 7:53 am:
I'm sure he meant it as a joke, but when Neelix asks him why he didn't disguise himself as a Talaxian, Chakotay responds that whiskers make him itch. They didn't seem to bother him in "Year of Hell," when he had a pretty good beard growing. Yes, I realize power was at minimum in that episode, but if he really wanted to shave, he could have used a handheld blade. Tuvok was seen using one in that very episode.
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By aifix on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 8:11 am:
My problem was with Chakotay telling Harry and Doc to "work it out" as to who was in charge. That's what a chain of command is for! As the senior officer, Chakotay should have designated the leader in his absence (Harry, of course!)
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By Miko Iko on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 9:45 am:
Instead, I now think the injections might be exactly what they claim, an injection to combat the effects of radiation. Tuvok had his first recovered memory before his first scheduled injection. (I say it was his first because he was hesitant and asked if there was any other way to administer it. It was also Janeway's first, since she didn't recognize the signal for the injections.) I think that the mind control is performed solely by the machine shown in the flash-backs. The reason for Tuvok's memory might have something to do with his Vulcan heritage. Remember, Crusher was unable to erase the memory of the Mintakan, a vulcanoid race, in "Who Watches the Watchers." (My 2nd comparison to that ep on this board. Wierd.) It may be that their brains store memories differently than other humanoid species. Vorik should, theoretically, be experiencing the same reaction. How much you want to bet we won't even hear about him next week?
-Dustin Westfall
Many excellent points, Dustin, but I am still left with the impression that the injections play a role in the mind control. Perhaps it is a red herring after all, we'll see. But after Tuvok missed a number of injections he experienced more of a kind of mental distress rather than a physiological one. Had there been damaging radiation he should have been more physically affected, perhaps even displaying some lesions again.
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By PaulG on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 9:50 am:
Just for the record, I understand why Chuckles did not turn off the ECH (assuming that he could). The Doc's command and engineering skills come from the ECH programming. With only two people on board, the ECH's skills are invaluable. They need him activated.
Dustin & Rene: The tricky thing here is that we do not even know what's in the injections. The way I see it, the injection from the flashback could be:
1) an anti-radiation serum
2) a mind control chemical
3) a strong sedative
4) some combination of any or all of the above
As for the daily injections, all we know for sure is that they do not contain a strong sedative (though they might contain a mild one).
I still think the injections have something to do with the mind control though. The writers did too much of "HEY, LOOK AT THE INJECTIONS! - DON'T THEY LOOK SUSPICIOUS?" for my tastes.
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By ScottN on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 10:04 am:
I missed it. When ECH activated, did they do the cool pip effect from TTDS?
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By Spockania on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 1:29 pm:
No, ScottN, the Doc was pipless. I suspect it was so we could have a dispute between him and Kim over command. After all, if the Doc had 4 pips and Harry 1, then the Doc would be in clear command.
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By Newt on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 1:50 pm:
I have to agree that Chuckles made a mistake telling Harry and the Doctor to work it out. To me it was horrible command decision militarily. Sure it's a good roommate/buddy solution but in the military you don't want to guys duking it out for command in battle. that's why there is a chain of command.
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By Anonymous on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 8:11 pm:
I haven't seen Part 2 yet.
There is a precedent for the mind control setup. In the TV movie "Revenge of the Stepford Wives", the wives were originally brainwashed by a machine. Afterwards the effects were maintained by drugs which they took four times a day, prompted by a siren at the mayor's house sounded at regular intervals. They believed they were taking the drugs for minor medical conditions. If they stopped taking them long enough, the brainwashing would wear off and they'd return to normal.
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By Josh M on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 9:04 pm:
Maybe the stuff that Tuvok was injected with in his flashback was different than the stuff that they injected them with for the radiation stuff. That way, Neelix and Chakotay wouldn't have to worry about being injected with it because it was just stuff to protect them from radiation.
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By Steve Oostrom on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 11:09 pm:
Okay, not a bad episode, but it's too bad that this was not another of the two-hour TV movies. I hate waiting a week for the conclusion.
Loved the opening, though.
Obvious matte painting when they showed that tower of stacked spheres and whatnot.
At the end, lets see, Kim beams on board Neelix and B'Lenna, and then Chakotay asks to be beamed out. Voyager has its shields raised. Chakotay should have anticipated that. Afterall, what is the range of the transporters, 40,000 km? Therefore, Voyager must've been that close to the planet, and given all the orbital stations and the like shown on the first approach by the ship, they surely would've detected Voyager as it hung within 40,000 km of the planet. The surprising thing is that the defense forces waited that long to attack, and they definitely would've attacked after the first unauthorized transport. Chakotay should've expected that.
That "defense shield" around the planet doesn't look too promising. It can't stop an alien transporter from beaming through. It can interfere with sensors or perhaps block mass transports, but a single transport, as long as the transporter can lock onto the target, can work. Therefore, the reverse seems possible, that they can transport something through the shield, such as a large bomb.
We see Neelix's ship again. Too bad there's no internal sets for it.
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By ScottN on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 9:06 am:
What kind of cops do these people have? "You're violating curfew!" "Oh, we're on our way home."
"OK" and then Janeway&Boyfriend just hang for a few minutes before walking home? Shouldn't the cops have told them to move along?
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By Anonymous on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 8:53 pm:
-- That "defense shield" around the planet doesn't look too promising. It can't stop an alien transporter from beaming through. It can interfere with sensors or perhaps block mass transports, but a single transport, as long as the transporter can lock onto the target, can work. Therefore, the reverse seems possible, that they can transport something through the shield, such as a large bomb.--
Maybe these aliens figured any attack on them would be on a large scale, and designed their defenses accordingly. They didn't think an attempt by an individual to slip in could pose any danger to them. That's how the Death Star in "Star Wars" was designed, and why the rebels attacked with a fleet of tiny one-person ships small enough to get through the large-scale designed defenses.
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By Lee Jamilkowski (Ljamilkowski) on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 5:35 pm:
ScottN, "These aren't the droids you're looking for."
"These are the droids we're looking for. Move along now. Move along now." Sorry, couldn't resist.
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By Mark Bowman on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 8:25 pm:
"Heading 903 mark 6"? Computer, deactivate the
^^^^^^^^^
Emergency Command Hologram until it learns how to count to 360. ;-) >>>>>> ^^^^^^
Wouldn't that be a catch 22? :]
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By Mark Bowman on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 8:26 pm:
"Heading 903 mark 6"? Computer,
deactivate the Emergency Command
Hologram until it learns how to count
to 360. ;-) >>>>>>
Wouldn't that be a catch 22? :]
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By Will S. on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 9:26 am:
Re. Chakotay's subcutaneous implant in the palm of his hand;
It brings new meaning to the expression, 'Talk to the hand!'
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By ScottN on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 11:40 am:
Nit. The "Happy Days" character was Ralph Malph, not Ralph Mouth.
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By Padawan on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 1:55 pm:
Maybe someone's already got this, maybe they haven't, but in the flashback, where Janeway is in sickbay, she says "contanimate" instead of "contaminate". She notices this, does a twitch, and continues, presumably thinking no-one will notice.
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By Sophie Hawksworth on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 3:19 am:
If the mine left Voyager radioactive, wouldn't the escape pods also be radioactive? Why would they be safer in the pods than in Voyager?
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By John A. Lang on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 11:07 pm:
FASCINATING! Ralph Malph now lives in the Delta Quadrant!
Just kidding...the alien doctor was played by Don Most who also played Ralph Malph on "Happy Days"
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By John A. Lang on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 11:14 pm:
TPTB are DEFINITELY out of gas....they torture us with yet ANOTHER "crew having their memory altered" episode. Granted, it was interesting the first time they did it, now it's just plain worn out!
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By Butch the Roving Mod on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 4:40 pm:
Three posts moved to the Dump
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By ScottN on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 5:09 pm:
And you can see them on "Last Day".
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By Butch the Roving Mod on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 5:41 pm:
Fixed it, Scott.
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By constanze on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 10:37 am:
John,
I thought this wasn't about "memory altered", but a twist on the "innocent people are taken from their ordinary life when a ship comes along and shangais every able person as crew" story, which was real a couple of centuries ago in the English navy, only this time, the landlubbers shanghai the sailors. (Or you could say I've read too much Hornblower )
"First of all, air doesn't disappear and since there were no hull breeches the air wouldn't have escaped." Jwb52z
There was no need to reply to this post, Gcapp corrected himself in the next paragraph.
"The problem with your idea is that apparently only the captain can turn the ECH on and off by use of her command code." Jwb52z
There's one occurance of this and you assume that's the way it always is. Now that is flawed logic.
"Our only evidence is that Tuvok remembered things and didn't take his [inoculation]." Amos
Actually, no it's not our only evidence. Either Janeway or Seven, or both, mentioned that they don't know of any radiation contamination. Also, as somebody already pointed out, after avoiding the inoculations for several days Tuvok did not show signs of radiation poisoning.
"Perhaps the anti-radiation serum is only a temporary cure and if they do not get daily injections, the disease will return." PaulG
Radiation poisoning is not a disease.
"The Quarren must buy their ships from the Breen- they looked similar(to me anyway)." Aaron
You're not alone in thinking that. In fact that was the first thing I thought when I saw those ships.
"They didn't seem to bother him in "Year of Hell," when he had a pretty good beard growing. Yes, I realize power was at minimum in that episode, but if he really wanted to shave, he could have used a handheld blade." Brian
Chuckles was on the Timeship with Paris during this time. He was allowed to shave after the Krenim crew were done testing him.
After Chuckles introduces himself to the brain-washed Kathy they run into each other in the bar. His back is to her yet after she passes him she turns around for no reason and starts talking to him. This sounds a bit confusing but it just seemed like bad acting by Mulgrew.
NANJAO:
I liked how they did the kidnapping B'elanna bit. Neelix following B'elanna was supposed to be noticable; it was supposed to make her uneasy , to confuse her. It was designed to distract her from Chakotay who was waiting up ahead. You can even see that after he bumps into her, Neelix walks on by. Neelix probably wasn't the one who was going to beam up with her, but had to engage B'elanna after she broke free of Chakotay. If Chakotay had been able to beam up with her, Neelix likely would have gone back to tracking down crewmen while waiting for Chakotay to return.
Miko: Doc will devise an airborn anti-serum using what he gleans from B'elanna and they will have a mission to release it into the plant's air control system.
Although this was just a guess on your part we clearly see people getting hooked up do surgical devices for the brainwashing, something which an antiserum should have no affect on.
Dustin: Do we have any direct evidence that the injections are the mind control itself?
Rene: It's obvious that the injections are for mind control.
The only evidence we have is that TPTB make a big deal about highlighting its suspicious nature; Janeway mentions a lack of radiation and Tuvok has a flashback while in line to receive his seemingly first injection. This may very well have been a red herring, as in it really was for radiation, but it's stated a couple times how much people like working there, so my take on the injections is that it's a mood stabilizer, to keep everybody happy and working. It can't be a sedative, since they're administered at work, and not everybody there has been brainwashed; giving the volunteers a placebo would require the person giving the injections knowledge of who receives what and create an unnecessary loose-end.
Anon: It was a better episode than I thought it would be, although the lame "we were away just long enough to miss the crisis and are now back in time to solve the whole thing" device is running a little stale.
Agreed. Not only that, but several times this season, moreso than the rest of the show I think, one or two members of the crew is interested in participating in regional events that requires both significant detours/delays and makes you wonder how they heard about these things in the first place. While I agree putting on blinders to the AQ and going to warp all the time isn't in the best interest of Trek, the frequency of this tired plot device exceeds the suspension of disbelief IMHO.
I suppose this should be asked in the part 2 board, but if these people are so good at medicine, particularly neuroscience, why would their society still be so industrial? Granted, industry is important, but Ralph Malph seemed to effortlessly be able to alter the minds of multiple species, and their space-related technology was pretty decent as well. Given these things one would think that their society could solve their 'labor crisis' pretty easily without resorting to kidnapping and brainwashing considering most of the industrial work we see could easily become automated.
Caught most of this two-parter on a stream and thought I'd check the boards for old time's sake.
Jackknight: what do the brainwashed crew members think they're doing on the planet? Do they have implanted memories of living their entire lives there? Do they remember how they got their jobs?
Those remain very good questions. Unless I missed it again (see part 2 board) any indication of implanted memories are not mentioned, and we never even find out what those injections are actually for. Also, why do they need so many workers? They're not manufacturing anything. All we see is a power plant and a bar. With the quality of life they give their workers, the planet could probably just buy an ad in their regional classifieds page and be fine.
me: There's one occurrence of this and you assume that's the way it always is. Now that is flawed logic.
Pretty snarky response. You're probably long gone Jwb, but for what it's worth I apologize.
The Voyager crew get kidnapped by Ralph Malph.