---Synopsis:
In the continuation from Part I, Chakotay, Kim, Neelix and the Doctor must rescue Janeway and the rest of their fellow crewmen from Quarra, where they have been put to work, and their memories of their former lives suppressed, beginning with contacting Janeway and Torres, and trying to restore their memories.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Richie Vest

The Nits: A nice follow up.
1. What happened to Tom's boss at the bar?
2. Would not Dr. Ralph Mouth's tricorder tell him if Seven was asleep or not.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 6:14 am:

Shouldn't you remove the Part 1 from the previous episode since it wasn't called Part 1?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 11:57 am:

I am guessing that Chakotay manages to escape. As someone else pointed out, if he does get captured, then part 1 would have ended that way.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Ralph Malph on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 12:06 pm:

I think just the opposite. I'll betcha he gets captured, undergoes the treatment, and becomes a happy worker like the others. Now that B'elanna is about to become her old self again, she can pick up where he left off.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Spockania on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 10:10 pm:

UPN says this will be the "most provocative episode of the season." I assume that means it will be the most nit provoking, although with hope it means though provoking. But if this is the most provocative episode, than what does that say about the series finale?

Chuckles is shown in previews trying to seduce Seven. Because of that I'll say he gets brainwashed too. However, I suspect B'Elanna will not be cured immediately and the Doc and Kim will have to save the day. I base this on Chuckles' last order to "sort it out." If Chuckles or anyone who outranked Harry was okay, this would not lead to drama.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Spornan on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 12:08 am:

I have a feeling Chakotay will get brainwashed, but the Doctor will have done something to him beforehand that allows him to regain his memories partway through the episode. Maybe he'll have some sort of conflict with sometimes remembering his true self, and sometimes not. That could certainly be interesting.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 5:54 am:

"Chuckles is shown in previews trying to seduce Seven"

Isn't that next week?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Richie Vest on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 6:15 am:

I think Chakotay seducing Seven is from a different episode entirely. I am sure UPN is just hyping up the last episodes

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Vicki on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 11:42 am:

The seduction scene is from a different episode. I heard that Seven creates a holodeck program with images of her shipmates, as Lt. Barclay did.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By The Undesirable Element on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 3:50 pm:

It's from NEXT week's episode called "Human Error"

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Spockania on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 4:42 pm:

Ah. I see. The way UPN runs their trailers, I was mistaken. But I still say Chuckles gets brainwashed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 6:21 pm:

I think I see a possible pun in that title, "Human Error." We'll see how the episode turns out to fit that idea.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By The Undesirable Element on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 1:12 pm:

SPOILER
According to TV Guide, Seven creates a holographic crew to help with her interpersonal skills.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Anonymous on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 5:52 pm:

Potential Spoiler?

Maybe Janeway takes her boyfriend with her to the Alpha quadrant?

Maybe this week, 7o9 will collapse due to borg implant fatigue?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Scanner on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 6:55 pm:

Okay, I have a potential nit. I didn't tape it, so I'm not sure but I am almost positive about 3/4 of the way through the episode when the ECH and Harry are on the bridge, a redshirt is at Tuvok(?)'s console in the background. There should not have been any redshirts and only the ECH (seen clearly in the foreground), Harry, Neelix and B'Ellana on the ship at that time. Can anyone verify this?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Scanner on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 7:40 pm:

Wow, is it only 7:55 when I posted this message? Hah, that was 8:55 in my timezone and Voyager comes on at 8! No wonder this board is slow tonight! You're still watching it, assuming I'm correct in thinking that you are one or two hours behind me in watching it. It is exactly 9:40 right now for me, Voyager ended 40 minutes ago.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Spornan on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 7:58 pm:

The guard that Chakotay shoots first in the beginning seems to move a few feet closer to him after the shot changes (when he's lying unconcious/dead)

Doc's plan to throw off the pursuing ships: Photonic Shockwave. How is a big ol' blast of light gonna do anything? I wish they'd stop using Photonic as a prefix to technobabble weapons. (Photonic Cannon...a flashlight)

The little mobile figurine of a Klingon Bird of Prey may be kinda cute, but how many parents want model ships of war being around their baby? Besides full Klingons, that is.

When Chakotay uses the "Dermal regenerator" on his forehead, his chin prosthetic is already gone. That thing works GOOD!

Harry's argument for now wanting the Doc to remain a commanding officer is "That skill was programmed into you," Umm...EVERYTHING was programmed into the doctor. Including his medical skills, which doesn't keep him from being a •••• fine Doctor. That's like telling a real doctor, "Sorry Doc, but you didn't even figure out that procedure yourself! They had to teach you how to do it in med school!"

I liked this episode, so I won't point out that they don't go warp at the very end.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Spornan on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 8:00 pm:

Scanner, that's the doctor standing over by Tuvok's console.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Shane Tourtellotte on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 8:13 pm:

These weapons confuse me a bit. Chakotay gets winged by one shot, and his shoulder is badly burned. He drills his two pursuers full in the chest, and they're just stunned. Does this seem wrong to anybody else? (Sit down, Jwb52z.)

I would think that reconstructive surgery that gave one's face ridges would involve adding bone, or a close substitute. How can a dermal regenerator remove bone?!? That was one of the dumbest things Voyager has ever done, and yes, that says much.

I note with mirth that Somekinda Syndrome has spread to the Quarren.

Nice trick with the escape pods, except wouldn't the attacking ships have noticed the lack of lifesigns in them, and become suspicious?

When we first saw Tom's TV, I believe it was black and white. He watches a cartoon in color at the end of this episode. (I should review the nitboard for "Memorial" to be sure.)

I may set a record here by nitpicking an episode a week in advance. 7 is serving Chakotay rack of lamb, and he doesn't bat an eye. That's awfully strange, since he's a vegetarian, a fact we were reminded of only last week.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 8:27 pm:

I really enjoyed part 2. What was good about it is that everyone got a good role, not just Seven, Janeway and the Doctor

I have no nits at this point. But I'm sure I'll think of some later. ;)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 8:28 pm:

So...the injections had nothing to do with mind control...hmmm? :p

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By aifix on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 8:38 pm:

When Janeway's friend was arguing with her to stay, he did a perfect Regis Philbin impression -- "Are you willing to risk everything you've got?"

When he fires at one of the two guys on up on the catwalk, the one guard gets hit, and the other guard just stands there and does a double take, giving him plenty of time to duck back behind the console.

I think that's the longest "somekinda" pause we've seen yet.

Gee, I wonder how the after-effects are going to get to everybody next week.

If you're hiding a ship in the shadows, why would you have the lights on? And these were on the warp nacelles. Isn't that supposed to be only when they're at warp?

Guess the injections didn't mean a darn thing after all.

What happened to the 47's? They had tons of opportunities to use them in this two-parter!

It seems this experience should somehow lessen their urge to get home. After all, they were happy and comfortable where they were. Now someone yanks them from the life they are used to, tells them that it's all a lie, and puts them on a ship bound for more trouble. Chakotay certainly learned well from Janeway.

I used to wait until the next day to post my nits, but since we're getting close to the end I gotta get them in while I can.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By PaulG on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 8:44 pm:

People, would you PLEASE warn me of spoilers. I do not want to know what the next episode is about. You can discuss it but a SPOILER WARNING would be appreciated.

It appears that the injections were NOT mind control. Most likely, the head machine did the actual scrambling. And Janeway’s boyfriend was legitimately in love. Dreamers 2, Cynics 0.

Does anyone else find it convenient that the alien ships held their fire while the Doc explained the photonic shockwave plan? And who explains their plan in the middle of a firefight when shields are failing? Looks like they may have programmed Doc with the “Janeway Procrastination” subroutine.

Guess they have plenty of torps. No explanation needed, I guess. At least it was appropriate to use one.

When Torres questions the wedding picture, Neelix tries to convince her of the authenticity by saying “How else would we have it” (or something similar). Um, if these aliens can scramble memories so she doesn’t remember her own husband, I think faking a picture is not out of the question. I can doctor a picture fairly effectively and I’m just an amateur.

OK, the dermal generator reverses the surgery. It also restores tattoos. Impressive.

Why is it so dark in the power plant at night? This place should be running 24/7. It’s hard to work in the dark!

Taking down one power plant destabilizes the entire planetary shield? Not the most effective defensive setup I’ve seen. Must be a small planet or only a partial shield failure.

It appears that Janeway’s boyfriend is from the “original” species on this planet. Yet, he states he moved there for a better life. I suppose he could have come from another planet.

Finally, next week we get to see Seven “as you always wanted to see her” (UPN News). Um, for some reason seeing her used as a sex object and emphasizing the sucking finger thing in a cheap ploy to produce ratings is how I always did NOT want to see her. UPN hits a new low.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 8:45 pm:

"People, would you PLEASE warn me of spoilers."

Um...no. This is the space to talk about the episode. If you don't want to know what happens, don't come here. Simple as that.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 8:54 pm:

Oh...you were speaking of next week's episode. Sorry. My mistake.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 8:57 pm:

"Nice trick with the escape pods, except wouldn't the attacking ships have noticed the lack of lifesigns in them, and become suspicious?"

They probably had the pods emit false life sign readings.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Amos on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 9:00 pm:

I feel to vindicated over the whole injection thing. Everyone who doubted me can line up around the block to say they're sorry.

Anyway, moving past my gloating, I thought this was a pretty decent end to the two parter. I think it might have worked a little better as a 2 hour dealie though.

My one nit has to do with the fire fight in the powerplant at the end. I saw half of someone run for cover behind Janeway and her boyfriend. Was this supposed to be some innocient night-shift guy or some kind of screw up?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Shane Tourtellotte on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 9:04 pm:

Sounds reasonable, Rene, except how could they have done that for three pods, with a crew of four, in a matter of seconds during a heated battle? And it would have been nice if they mentioned they were going to do it, too.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By TomM on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 9:50 pm:

Doc's plan to throw off the pursuing ships: Photonic Shockwave. How is a big ol' blast of light gonna do anything? I wish they'd stop using Photonic as a prefix to technobabble weapons. (Photonic Cannon...a flashlight) Spornan

Matter-antimatter anihilation, as in Photon Torpedoes, produces tremendous energy release in the form of photons. There are a lot released, and at all wavelengths, including dangerously energetic levels of gamma waves and cosmic waves. Some of the other uses of "photons" or "photonic" as part of the techno-babble may have produced nonsense like a "photon cannon" that if you think about the principles involved would be no more dangerous than a high-powered flashlight, but this is one case where it is appropriate to use the phrase.

When we first saw Tom's TV, I believe it was black and white. He watches a cartoon in color at the end of this episode. (I should review the nitboard for "Memorial" to be sure.) Shane

Belanna admitted that she took liberties with the specifications for that model when she replicated it (including a remote, for example), and the catroon Tom watched in that ep was B&W, and doesn't prove the TV was not color

Harry's argument for now wanting the Doc to remain a commanding officer is "That skill was programmed into you," Umm...EVERYTHING was programmed into the doctor. Including his medical skills, which doesn't keep him from being a ???? fine Doctor. That's like telling a real doctor, "Sorry Doc, but you didn't even figure out that procedure yourself! They had to teach you how to do it in med school!" Spornan

This conversation occurred before Harry and the Doctor followed Chakotay's last oprder to "work it out." Harry was sniping at the Doc, and not being very logical about it. It's a nit against Harry, but not necessarily against the show or the writers.

And just so you don't think I'm turning into another Jwb52z, my nit: The kidnapping conspiracy went pretty deep in the government bureaucracy, involving the equivalent of their Attorney General or Minister of Justice, so how did they find (especially so quickly) someone with who was unncorrupted, who had the authority to handle the situation, and who was inclined to listen to people who from the evidence, could just as easily be alien terrorists?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 9:52 pm:

::"Nice trick with the escape pods, except wouldn't the attacking ships have noticed the lack of lifesigns in them, and become suspicious?"

They probably had the pods emit false life sign readings.:: Rene

NOW who is trying to explain away a nit?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Steve Oostrom on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 10:24 pm:

Didn't really see the episode well... bad reception, but hopefully I'll see the taped version later. Anyway, I was wondering why the power plant was not staffed round-the-clock. Judging by what happened after they took it out, it should be.

I wonder if Neelix got his ship back.

Will we notice the missing escape pods on Voyager? Probably not. They'll simply replace them the same way they replace all of those shuttles.

At least one episode where nobody can say "they weren't going at warp." At the very end, the ship was only breaking orbit, and did not have the time to go to warp before the show cut to commercials.

Not bad... but watching a show shot mostly in the dark when reception is poor is not a good combination.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By JAM on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 1:18 am:

A good episode. We saw some more allusions of Chakotay's growing relationship to the Captian. Now some "nits":

I was waiting for Tuvok to regain his memory somehow. Seemed all we really saw of him in this episode was his medical record.

I thought that maybe the planet's mind altering devices would have been the best tool to reverse the effects. Instead, ECH/Doc spends time to do it himself. (It's even credited in the log entry at the end of the episode.)


JAM

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Keith Alan Morgan (Kmorgan) on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 1:49 am:

That planet wasn't going at warp!!!

Janeway wasn't very observant. You think she would have noticed Chakotay's wound in the bar.
Also it appeared that he was hit with an energy weapon, so wouldn't there be a burning jacket/charred flesh combination smell emanating from Chakotay?

Later they show Chakotay bleeding. Was this from the wound? They used an energy weapon which should cauterize the wound. Was he picking his wounds, perhaps?

I was surprised that Janeway's boyfriend wasn't sinister.

PaulG - It appears that Janeway’s boyfriend is from the “original” species on this planet. Yet, he states he moved there for a better life. I suppose he could have come from another planet.
It's stated in Part 1 that he's Novaran.

TomM - It's a nit against Harry, but not necessarily against the show or the writers.
Well, that's debatable, especially around here. ;-) ;-)

Next week: Seven becomes boisterously sexual to an extreme. ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Spornan, boisterously sexual to an extreme. on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 3:42 am:

Heh, I love that term. Too bad only like four people in the world understand the joke, and they are all posters on this board.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By KAM on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 3:47 am:

You, me, Spockania & Jwb52z.

The fun of in-jokes. ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By cstadulis on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 5:39 am:

Hey! Victor from "Days of Our Lives" is really an alien. He was one of the guys shown briefly at the end of the ep, talking with Neelix, Harry and the ECH on Voyager (I think). I didn't catch Part 1, so I don't know if Vic was around more often than just that end scene.
That makes two guest "stars" for this ep, Ralph Malph and Vic.
Also, is Harry ever going to get a promotion or even complimented for his work? The guy thinks up of a way to save Voyager (with the escape pod thing), saving everyone's butts in the process, and no one even says good job!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Mr. Luxury Yacht on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 5:56 am:

By TomM on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 10:50 pm:


Doc's plan to throw off the pursuing ships: Photonic Shockwave. How is a big ol' blast of light gonna do anything? I wish they'd stop using Photonic as a prefix to technobabble weapons. (Photonic Cannon...a flashlight) Spornan

Matter-antimatter anihilation, as in Photon Torpedoes, produces tremendous energy release in the form of photons. There are a lot released, and at all wavelengths, including dangerously energetic levels of gamma waves and cosmic waves. Some of the other uses of "photons" or "photonic" as part of the techno-babble may have produced nonsense like a "photon cannon" that if you think about the principles involved would be no more dangerous than a high-powered flashlight, but this is one case where it is appropriate to use the phrase.

TomM, while you are entirely correct that when antimatter and matter come together they produce high energy photons (radiation), there still doesn't appear to be any reason why it disabled the ships. The doctor used a regular photon torpedo and detonated it in between the two ships, when typically it would detonate on impact with the shields. So, why would the burst be more effective farther away from the ship, when 90% of its energy is going to be radiated (and radially, BTW, not in one plane which was what was shown (thus, it would come at Voyager as well)) into space?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 6:01 am:

"NOW who is trying to explain away a nit? "

Just shutup, JWB. My explanation makes sense and fits the available facts. Your explanations always come out of nowhere and make no sense whatsoever.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By James on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 6:47 am:

This is a nit (of sorts) for the next episode that was previewed. You know, "Seven as you've always wanted to see her." (As an aside, that particular description made me think to myself "As *who* wanted to see her?" and "Judging by the red-slinky-yet-skintight outfit she was wearing in those shots, they must be refering to unmarried males." But, I digress...)

If you look at the jpegs at the episode description for "Human Error" at www.startrek.com, they show pictures of Tom & B'Elanna at their baby shower. In one of the pictures, you can see a multi-colored stuffed animal in the lower left corner. Somehow, they have kidnapped my baby daughter's toy lizard (which on his tag says his name is "Al the Alligator" but which we have named "Lovin' Al the Lizard") and somehow brought him on to Voyager!!! And in another picture, you can see my daughter's sippy-cups (for those of you without kids, this is a cup with a lid that has a built-in straw).

So, why did they have to go to the 21st century to get baby toys?!? And, more importantly, when will my family be compensated for our loss? And what about Lovin' Al ??? Will they treat him right? Do they know the song he "sings" and when to toot the sqeaker hidden in his snout? I want answers!

"You want answers?"

I think I'm entitled to them.

"You want answers!?!"

I want the truth!

"YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!"

*silence*

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Brian Lombard on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 9:33 am:

Hmm. I'm still wondering where Naomi and Icheb were in this episode. What kinda jobs did they get? : )

I found it odd that Jaffen's memory had not been altered with. In part 1, Janeway was telling him about Earth - overpopulated, polluted, not enough work. Jaffen said that that's exactly what his world was like. I chalked that up to the conditioning, but since he didn't have it, it looks like an amazing coincidence!

BTW. Quarren was the name of the 31st century Kyrian who rescued Doc's program from the EMH backup module. They've simply run out of names!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By JAM on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 10:41 am:

Brian Lombard: "I found it odd that Jaffen's memory had not been altered with. In part 1, Janeway was telling him about Earth - overpopulated, polluted, not enough work. Jaffen said that that's exactly what his world was like. I chalked that up to the conditioning, but since he didn't have it, it looks like an amazing coincidence!"

Well, maybe it was just a line to impress. Y'know "Hey we both have something in common! Now lets go on a date."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 10:43 am:

::Just shutup, JWB. My explanation makes sense and fits the available facts. Your explanations always come out of nowhere and make no sense whatsoever.:: Rene

You have no right to be rude to me. I was simply pointing out that you were doing what you get upset at me for doing even if you think yours was a viable explanation and you don't think mine are.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 11:32 am:

I am not starting this again. Just don't talk to me ever again.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Kyle Powderly on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 11:55 am:

From cstadulis: Hey! Victor from "Days of Our Lives" is really an alien. He was one of the guys shown briefly at the end of the ep, talking with Neelix, Harry and the ECH on Voyager (I think).

Ah-HAH! Proof positive that Jennifer Anniston is from another planet! J

(For those of you who don’t know, the actor cstadulis referred to is John Anniston, Jennifer’s dad.)

From Brian Lombard: Hmm. I'm still wondering where Naomi and Icheb were in this episode. What kinda jobs did they get?

An excellent point – Icheb may be old enough to work, but what would these people have done with a child like Naomi Wildmon? She would have been in one of the lifepods, so she would have been reprogrammed: should we just assume that mother and daughter got off the ship together, so they would have been reprogrammed together? You know what they say about when you assume…

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By margie on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 12:04 pm:

>Hmm. I'm still wondering where Naomi and Icheb were in this episode. What kinda jobs did they get? <

I don't know what Naomi could have done, but Icheb is old enough, or at least looks old enough, that he may have been given a regular job like the adults. Of course, I could be wrong.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By margie on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 12:07 pm:

Hey, has anyone else noticed that the time is messed up on the messages? It used to be eastern standard time, which makes it now 2:07, but the post I just made says 1:04. Perhaps the new server is in the central zone?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Spockania on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 12:43 pm:

Jaffen's comment about his homeworld brings up an interesting point (assuming it is true). Why is there a labor shortage? Apparently things are so bad that it is actually cost effective to kidnap and brainwash workers. Why not just go to Jaffen's planet and recruit from the unemployed there? Or why not go to some other planet? Think about it. They can implant memories, so they must be able to implant 'memories' of classes and things, so whoever they recruited would not need any experience at all. So the real nit with this episode is- why is there a labor shortage?

If as it seems Seven is using a holodeck when she becomes boisterously sexual to an extreme next week, I bet 'you know who' wrote the program. Or at least designed her wardrobe. ;)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 12:46 pm:

Come on. Harry deserves a promotion after this. WHy not give him a lieutenant rank. He'll still have the same job, but he needs to be rewarded for his work

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 12:47 pm:

I wonder if we'll ever seen Tom watching TOS on that tv of his.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Ed Watson on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 1:07 pm:

BTW, in case anybody around here forgot, this board, and nitpicking in general is supposed to be FUN!!!! Nuff said.

What a great story!!!! Sometimes it seems like Star Trek has lost (or maybe just misplaced?) it's ability to tell a good story. Then we have shows like this. The acting and the writing were excellent.

Great scenes: Janeway talking to Voyager over the com link in the power plant ("Perhaps you'd better just call me Catherine"). Belanna falling in love with Tom all over again from reading his personal log. And of course, Janeway's last scene with Jaffen ("I won't need souvenirs to remember you"). Talk about your ultimate KMYF moment!

Just one little nit, since I can't resist. Janeway goes back to her room to get more stuff. Why doesn't she turn on the lights when she walks in? Now, we all know Chuck was in there, and we also know this was done for dramatic effect, but in the context of the story that made no sense.

Have a good day people and play nice!!

Ed

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 1:42 pm:

::I am not starting this again. Just don't talk to me ever again.:: Rene

All right.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By The Undesirable Element on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 2:17 pm:

This episode was great. MUCH better than part one.

NITS:
1. This Tom Paris "I'm in love with the 20th century" thing is getting a little out of hand. A few holoprograms is fine, but an ANTIQUE TV!? Doesn't that strain credulity a little?

2. If it takes a dermal regenerator a few seconds to remove the facelift, why did it take Bashir so long to do pretty much the same thing in "Apocalypse Rising"

3. Good thing that no passing ships looked into that crater.

4. Why did Janeway's lover keep changing his mind? First he wants her to stay. Then he helps her escape. Then he tries to keep her. Then he says goodbye.

5. Do you think Janeway is just afraid to let anyone in her life. She's using that "not appropriate to fraternize with the crew" a lot. She's hiding.

See ya later
TUE

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 2:45 pm:

"2. If it takes a dermal regenerator a few seconds to remove the facelift, why did it take Bashir so long to do pretty much the same thing in "Apocalypse Rising""

I found that very weird. There was something so wrong about that scene.

"This episode was great. MUCH better than part one."

I agree 100%. There was something so...right about this episode. I enjoyed it very much.

By trekkerxphile on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 4:57 pm:

"1. This Tom Paris "I'm in love with the 20th century" thing is getting a little out of hand. A few holoprograms is fine, but an ANTIQUE TV!? Doesn't that strain credulity a little?" The Undesirable Element

B'Elanna gave it to him, back in "Memorial," I think it was called (the one where they got the memories of war massacres). So it is established, though I agree it's a bit strange, given the "replicator rationing" . . . you know, the one that disappeared back in season two.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Adam Bomb on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 6:28 pm:

At least one of the consoles looked like it was lifted from the fake Starfleet ship Dauntless in "Hope and Fear." Just like TOS, where the same set pieces were re-used many times.
This was said before but-Chakotay's tattoo is invincible, withstanding even a dermal regenerator.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 6:51 pm:

>Hey, has anyone else noticed that the time is messed up on the messages? It used to be eastern standard time, which makes it now 2:07, but the post I just made says 1:04. Perhaps the new server is in the central zone?>

Time is NOT messed up. Why does the entire country act like the only time zones are Eastern and Pacific? (Perhaps not the entire country, just the East Coast.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jason on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 7:22 pm:

I know that the console Janeway used to fake the reactor overload was originally the Pastour's helm in All Good Things...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Vicki on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 7:45 pm:

Would it have killed them to have had someone say in the final scene something like "Doc says Naomi's pretty much back to normal and it looks like they didn't do anything to the baby." They wouldn't even have to have either in a scene, just a mention. If you lived in a tiny village and there were just a few children, wouldn't every single adult person there immediately ask about the well being of the children?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Matt Nelson on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 8:15 pm:

>Later they show Chakotay bleeding. Was this from the wound? They used an energy weapon which should cauterize the wound. Was he picking his wounds, perhaps? --Keith Alan Morgan (Kmorgan)<

...iccckkk!!!!

On a nit note, I too had a major problem with the dermal regenerator scene. That was way too easy for Chuckles, who strikes me as the type of guy who, when he takes his car in to get it tuned-up, gets billed for unneccessary repairs a lot.

Also, in the opening scene, didn't it seem like Chuckles's pursuers were farther away from him than at the end of the last episode? Sure was convenient, 'cause it gave him plenty of time to snag that bar and wreck the forcefield.

So when Chuckles gets shot, he gets SHOT shot, not just stunned. Does that mean he just _drilled_ that guy in the chest earlier?! Dang! That's brutal, man!

Actually, though, this was a surprisingly good episode for all involved. I really liked it, which is something I don't often say about Voyager.

M@ Nelson

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Spornan on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 1:44 am:

On the dermal regenerator: That is one SMART piece of equipment. Not only does it heal wounds, but it also REMOVES dermal prosthetics. Why would a REGENERATOR remove something? It doesn't seem like it should be able to do that.

Not to mention the fact that Chakotay's chin prosthetic is mysteriously missing when he uses the regenerator to get rid of his alien features.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By KAM on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 1:44 am:

I was just trying to think of a possible explanation for the bleeding nit, M@. Sorry, if it made you feel queesy.

Warning! Another possible explanation! Don't read if you have a weak stomach! ;-)
Perhaps the energy weapon fused part of Chuckles jacket into the wound & when he tried to take it off it opened the wound?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By KAM on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 1:48 am:

Perhaps the regenerator was designed to remove foreign objects (dirt, bacteria, etc.) from the wound before it regenerates? Of course, leaving the tattoo would seem to negate that idea.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52zs Mirror world counterpart with a goatee on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 4:40 am:

Obviously the dermal regenerator was placed in the Plant's medical storage by Q, who knew beforehand that Chakotay would need it's magical powers to show Janeway that he was human. So it's not actually a nit after all.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Hans Thielman on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 7:24 am:

Will Voyager be able to replicate more escape pods?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Lauren Mag on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 9:39 am:

Though I still think it was awful quick and it's funny how pointing a dermal regenorator at your forhead removes something on you chin, maybe it's supposed to regenorate skin to it's normal shape....

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By margie on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 10:55 am:

>Time is NOT messed up. Why does the entire country act like the only time zones are Eastern and Pacific? (Perhaps not the entire country, just the East Coast.) <

Sorry. I realize now I shouldn't have worded it that way. I just meant that the time posted with the messages changed from Eastern time to Central time. I realized somethng was different when I reas Scanner's messages at the top, talking about the time. I was used to the time being Eastern time, & was trying to figure out where he (she?) was from, since the time there was an hour ahead of where I am. After I posted my comment, I realized that he wasn't an hour ahead of me, but that the posting time was different. I apologize if I inadvertantly insulted anyone not from the Eastern time zone (which isn't so great anyway!)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By The Undesirable Element on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 11:51 am:

Since they seemed to find peace with the government of the planet, it seems reasonable that the government would return their escape pods.
We won't really know if they're there or not since they're usually covered up by those flip-up covers that we saw in "Year of Hell Part 1"

Interesting fact:
Brian Fuller recently said that Workforce was originally going to have a different concept. Voyager was going to be REALLY damaged. They have to eject their warp core but the shockwave caused microfractures everywhere. They get to the escape pods but the microfractures are there too so the whole crew dies. (Except Chuckles, Kim, and Neelix. The convenient away mission was still there) Then those aliens from "Ashes to Ashes", the Kobali, return and harvest the bodies of the crew and give them new lives. Janeway becomes a mother with a husband and a family. Torres is a new mother. and Paris is somebody's brother. Kim wants to leave them there since Voyager is trashed, but Chuckles wants to get them back.
There are obvious reasons why this wouldn't work.
1. Warp core destroyed. (Sure they're never at warp anyway, but still. :^))
2. Heavy makeup for all castmembers.
3. Voyager is trashed. Difficult to repair.
4. TPTB thought it was kind of shallow to kill off the crew just to bring them all back to life.

Personally, I'm glad they went in the direction they did.

See ya later
TUE

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 12:51 pm:

:: Obviously the dermal regenerator was placed in the Plant's medical storage by Q, who knew beforehand that Chakotay would need it's magical powers to show Janeway that he was human. So it's not actually a nit after all.:: mirror person

I would not make THAT wild of an assumption. We had no reason to believe Q would have anything to do with it and there is a possibility that The Federation isn't the only place with dermal regenerators. At least, I think they're not. I don't know why I irk so many of you that I seem to so much.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Reginald Denny on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 1:57 pm:

Can't we all just get along?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 3:11 pm:

There is a "nice fellow up" where?

How old is the moderator of the Voyager forum anyway?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Scott McClenny on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 9:47 pm:

For a moment there I had a flashback from
Monday's Laverne & Shirley episode on Nick
At Nite and was beginning to wonder when Neelix
was going to show B'Elanna Boo Boo Kitty(Hey,
if Ralph Malph can be a doctor why can't Boo
Boo Kitty show up in B and Tom's quarters?

Great B'Elanna line:"He watches cartoons."
on hubby Tom's viewing habits.

BTW:Friend just told me that the actor that
played Captain Janeway's love interest in this
two parter also played the Halliwell's father
on CHARMED a few eps back.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Josh M on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 9:53 pm:

Why do you want to know?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Richie Vest on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 7:17 am:

Rene Two things

No I should not remove Part one after all it is Part One regardless if they put it up there or not.

My age is 25.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 11:30 am:

"No I should not remove Part one after all it is Part One regardless if they put it up there or not."

That's not the title of the episode.

"My age is 25."

Considering your spelling and punctuation, I find that really hard to believe.

maybe you did not here me Rene Yes i know they did not call it Workforce, Part 1 at the begining of the first episode This was done to keep the fact it was a two-parter away from those who did not read the Star Trek Web Page which called it Part One. Also, other Voyager books will call it "Part One." I also did it so people who know which part was which. The fact that the opening did not call it that is meangingless.It is the first part. You are just making a moutntain out of a mole hill Finally Not that is any of your business Rene but i turn 26 on the 9th of March. Now if you dont believe that that is your loss but believe this you have crossed the line if you do not stop your contuined harassment (Please dont say I am not harassing you are) I will start deleting your messages and you will be banned!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By The Undesirable Element on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 11:43 am:

Give it a rest Rene. Being a moderator is hard. There's lots to do and sometimes you have to type up a synopsis quickly which results in errors. (In case you're wondering, I'm a moderator so I know what I'm talking about)

See ya later
TUE

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 2:06 pm:

Rene, you find it hard to believe that a person is 25 because he or she punctuates and spells properly?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 7:25 pm:

If you really believe that, JWB, you are a bigger idiot than I thought.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Anonymous on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 8:06 pm:

Hey, no matter what you think of someone, is it really necessary to call someone an idiot? It's actually pretty rude. You may find it hard to believe that someone who is 25 has a hard time with spelling and punctuation, but belittling them is not going to make anything better. That's a very immature attitude you have.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Philyaw on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 8:35 pm:

Okay, Rene, first of all you make good comments about Richie's spelling and punctuation, and your views on this board are pretty good and respected, but are those comments really necessary here?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 9:09 pm:

::If you really believe that, JWB, you are a bigger idiot than I thought.:: Rene

I was asking because I wasn't sure what you meant.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Butch B on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 11:15 pm:

Rene and Jwb, I thought you two weren't talking.

Also Jwb, I think Mirror Jwb was joking about Q being involved, not making a serious attempt to explain the nit. Humor doesn't always come across on these boards.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Bullet on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 11:31 pm:

Does anyone else think that this episode was way too rushed? They should have made it a three parter. Everything seemed to be concluded too quickly. Also, I don't know if any of you have mentioned it, but when they beamed the crew aboard, I wonder if they felt like B'Elanna when they were abducted. That would have led to some trouble for sure.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Ogakorsux on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 8:54 am:

Did anyone see Survivor on Thursday? Tina, the nurse, sent her quarreling tribemates to "time out." That's what we need here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Adam Bomb on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 10:56 am:

Would have been the first three-parter in "Trek" history, but it probably would have felt padded. On the last "Battlestar Galactica" marathon (Sci-Fi reels this show out every Christmas Eve) I noticed that there were a lot of two-parters. For the most part, they felt padded, as if the producers had limited story ideas, and had to milk each one. Still, watching "Galactica" was infinitely more desirable than spending time with my sister-in-law.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 11:21 am:

"Would have been the first three-parter in "Trek" history"

That would be the first three episodes of DS9 season 2.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 11:23 am:

Wow. The Voyager forum moderator really does have terrible grammar and spelling. Also, his use of punctuation is really limited. Not to mention the fact his arguments fail miserably of convincing me of why he posted "part 1" with the title when the episode is simply titled "Workforce".

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 12:24 pm:

He posted it as such so it can be easily identified as part 1 of a two parter. I believe the Chief listed "Best of Both Worlds" in the same manner.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Spornan on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 12:40 pm:

Rene, what is the point of arguing about something so trivial, as well as insulting the moderator of this forum about it?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 5:52 pm:

I just made a simple comment about the title not having "part 1" in it....and made fun of "nice fellow up". He's the one who tried to show off his moderator powers with threats of banning.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 5:59 pm:

"Does anyone else think that this episode was way too rushed?"

Naw....It was "well paced" (to quote someone from the "Planet Of the Apes" board).

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Brian Lombard on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 9:34 pm:

Off the topic, but in answer to the Battlestar Galactica question, the reason the series was made up of so many 2-parters is cause it was originally designed as a series of telemovies that would air only so often. But ABC wanted a series, so rather than throw away perfectly good scripts, they simply used the telemovie plots for the series.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Wannabe Trek Writer on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 7:22 am:

Rene...

English is not the native language of everyone on this board (myself included).

So why don't we lay off the insults at others' orthography? It's bad form.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Just Some Dude on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 8:07 am:

I'm no Rene fan, but if you guys want to keep duking it out, then please take this conversation over to the Voyager kitchen sink. Someone named "ChicagoCitationStyle" actually created a flaming Rene conversation thread. Let's use this thread for, oh I don't know, Workforce, Part 2.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By ScottN on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 9:39 am:

Rene, on the official Trek site (http://www.startrek.com/library/episodes_voy.asp), it's listed as "Workforce Part I". So there.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Len on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 12:31 pm:

Rene-

Really? I'd be interested in reading their explanation. Do you have the link? What WAS their explanation, and why didn't you buy it?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 2:28 pm:

::So why don't we lay off the insults at others' orthography? It's bad form.:: WTW

I would say that you have mastered the language if you can use the word "orthography" properly. BTW, WTW what is your native tongue?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Anonymous on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 8:55 pm:

-- Jaffen's comment about his homeworld brings up an interesting point (assuming it is true). Why is there a labor shortage? Apparently things are so bad that it is actually cost effective to kidnap and brainwash workers. Why not just go to Jaffen's planet and recruit from the unemployed there? Or why not go to some other planet? Think about it. They can implant memories, so they must be able to implant 'memories' of classes and things, so whoever they recruited would not need any experience at all. So the real nit with this episode is- why is there a labor shortage?--

It may not be as simple as implanting memories or knowledge. There's more to doing some things than textbook knowledge. Swimming, for example.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Spockania on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 9:47 pm:

Anonymous, if you are implanting memories you are implanting more than textbook know-how. For example, swimming viw memories of swimming.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Grammar Police on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 7:44 am:

::By Rene on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 07:14 am::

::"Shouldn't you remove the Part 1 from the
::previous episode since it wasn't called Part 1?"

::By Rene on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 12:57 pm::

::I am guessing that Chakotay manages to escape.
::As someone else pointed out, if he does get
::captured, then part 1 would have ended that way.

Shouldn't *you* not refer to it as Part I, since that's not what it was called? Shouldn't you just refer to it as "Workforce?"


::By Rene on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 06:54 am::

::"Chuckles is shown in previews trying to seduce
::Seven"

::Isn't that next week?

You should include the punctuation at the end of your quotation.


::By Rene on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 09:27 pm::

::I really enjoyed part 2. What was good about it
::is that everyone got a good role, not just
::Seven, Janeway and the Doctor

Shouldn't you refer to the episode as "Part II," not "Part 2?"

Also... again, watch that punctuation at the end of your sentences.


::By Rene on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 09:45 pm::

::"People, would you PLEASE warn me of spoilers."

::Um...no. This is the space to talk about the
::episode. If you don't want to know
::what happens, don't come here. Simple as that.

Talk about bad grammar! The last part is a clause, not a complete sentence.


::By Rene on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 07:01 am::

::::"NOW who is trying to explain away a nit? "

::Just shutup, JWB. My explanation makes sense and
::fits the available facts. Your explanations
::always come out of nowhere and make no sense
::whatsoever.

"Shutup" is not a word, they are two separate words.


::By Rene on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 01:46 pm::

::Come on. Harry deserves a promotion after this.
::WHy not give him a lieutenant rank. He'll still
::have the same job, but he needs to be rewarded
::for his work

First, words at the start of a sentence do not generally begin with two capital letters. Second, that sentence reads as a question, shouldn't there be a question mark at the end of it? And third, AGAIN, watch that punctuation at the end of your sentences.


::By Rene on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 01:47 pm::

::I wonder if we'll ever seen Tom watching TOS on
::that tv of his.

"TV" is capitalized. And, again, interrogative sentences should end in a question mark.


::By Rene on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 12:23 pm::

::Wow. The Voyager forum moderator really does
::have terrible grammar and spelling. Also, his
::use of punctuation is really limited. Not to
::mention the fact his arguments fail miserably of
::convincing me of why he posted "part 1" with the
::title when the episode is simply titled
::"Workforce".

That should read: "His arguments fail miserably IN convincing me..." And the period should be INSIDE the quotes, not outside.


::By Rene on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 06:59 pm::

::"Does anyone else think that this episode was
::way too rushed?"

::Naw....It was "well paced" (to quote someone
::from the "Planet Of the Apes" board).

"Of" does not need to be capitalized in the title, "Planet of the Apes."

So... what should we conclude by your posts, Rene? Besides that you're a hypocrite, that is...

"He who lives in glass houses..."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Just Some Dude on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 9:06 am:

No, but I am. I think you're all f-ed in the head, not to mention petty and trivial.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By PaulG on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 9:58 am:

Two things:

First, it is usually considered bad taste to flame bad spelling and grammar on the Internet, especially on boards where there is no edit capability to fix goofs. While I do see certain exceptions to that rule, I do not think that the current situation requires this sort of effort.

However, Mr. Moderator, I would recommend that you fix the spellings of two of the main characters in your header section, if that is at all possible. It makes a better impression on new visitors.

Second, sometimes when I look at these posts, it is hard to tell if a handle is being used by the proper owner or by an imposter. Is it at all possible to register users with a password, even if it is optional? It just saves headaches.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Grammar Cop on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 11:06 am:

Grammar Police is wrong at least twice. "Workforce". is correct as written. The period properly follows the closing quotation mark. Periods only go inside quotation marks when entire sentences are being quoted.

In the statement, "Shutup" is not a word, they are two separate words.", there is a comma splice error. There should be either a semicolon or, more properly, a period following "word".

By Jwb52z on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 11:13 am:

::Periods only go inside quotation marks when entire sentences are being quoted.:: Grammar Cop

According to the MLA style, that's not true. Even with a comma, you put it inside the quotation marks.

For example, "Had it not been for the flight navigator," the pilot said, "we wouldn't have been able to make the emergency landing. Even when the quote is broken, the punctuation goes inside the quotation marks.

::There should be either a semicolon or, more properly, a period following "word".:: Grammar Cop

Using a semicolon there would be more a stylistic choice instead of a hard and fast rule.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Anonymous on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 12:08 pm:

When I was in school, I learned all the rules that you people are arguing over. The nuns made sure I could quote them forward and backward and would fail an otherwise brilliant paper if the grammar were not perfect. ("WERE" being the correct form here because the clause is in the subjunctive mood.)

I've since learned that many of those "absolute" rules are actally style preferences and that language -- including its grammar -- is fluid and ever-evolving. Life is too short to worry about such petty arguments. Especially on a board like this, as PaulG has already explained.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Butch Brookshier on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 6:54 pm:

I agree with Anon. Let's stop worrying about grammar and punctuation as long as we understand each other.
We need to get back to discussing the show.
Though I too, would like some way to fix errors. My very first post to Nitcentral has a spelling error in it and I stop and glare at it every time I scroll through that discussion.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Grammar Police not afiliated with Grammar Cop on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 8:36 pm:

::By Grammar Cop on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 12:06 pm::

::"Workforce". is correct as written. The period
::properly follows the closing quotation mark.
::Periods only go inside quotation marks when
::entire sentences are being quoted.
::
::In the statement, "Shutup" is not a word, they
::are two separate words.", there is a comma
::splice error. There should be either a semicolon
::or, more properly, a period following "word".


Pick up any book and you will see that punctuation marks always go inside quotation marks. This is not a stylistic choice.

As for the semicolon... Jwb is right to say that it is a stylistic choice whether to use a comma or semicolon.

Regardless, it wouldn't mean that I was wrong. It would mean that I made a mistake. I can acknowledge my mistakes (like the fact that I posted "they are two separate words" when it should state "it is two separate words"). But can Rene acknowledge his?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Sheila on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 8:38 pm:

I’d like to return to the show.
Are the Universal Translators not still part of the communicator badges? If so, how are they talking to each other when the captors took them away? I guess they could have programmed their language into them as new memories, but then how did they talk to Chakotay and Neelix?
Seven seemed to have no trouble reading the personnel files in that strange script, but maybe the local race was once assimilated by the Borg.
If capturing labor was the work of a limited conspiracy, it seems strange that the official government didn’t notice space battles that seemed to be going on pretty close to the planet

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jessica on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 10:14 pm:

Well, Chakotay and Neelix had implanted communicators. Maybe that took care of the language.

I'd guess that the language was programmed in with the memories (having a workforce that didn't understand the language would be nearly worthless).

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Grammar Cop on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 11:19 am:

The stanch use of a period before a closing quotation mark is a peculiarity to MLA and the United States. In the United Kingdom and elsewhere, grammarians suggest a logical ordering of periods and quotation marks depending on the usage. The example “Workforce”. follows logical order because “Workforce.” would suggest the period is part of the show title. I acknowledge that there is room for debate. For further discussion on the topic, I recommend this link.

On the instance of the comma splice, there is no doubt about the improper usage in the example I cited. The options to properly punctuate it (without rewriting) are a period or semicolon. A comma is not an option. For further discussion on this topic, I recommend this link.

Oh, Rene did respond to you, “Grammar Police”. I read his response. That post, as all other recent posts by Rene, was deleted later by the moderator, who has banned Rene. I consider it improper to attack someone who cannot respond, especially when the attack is flawed. I am not attempting to speak for Rene, nor am I defending either his or the moderator’s actions. I am merely suggesting we lay off this one. Truce?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 2:35 pm:

Ah...so the coward deletes posts without provocation, huh?

Two things 1. I wont be deleting your post any more but you will be watched more closely as with all posts that are more personal. 2. I sir am no coward. You are some dumb little punk who does not have the guts leave his email address. If you want to talk to me about this more Rene you know the address
NO MORE INSULTS RENE!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By The Undesirable Element on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 3:31 pm:

Moderator's layin' the SMACKDOWN!

**GRUNT GRUNT HOOT HOOT**
**OTHER SOUNDS YOU HEAR ON UPN**

Rene vs. Nitcentral
Battle of the Millennium

TUE

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Polka-Dot Wolf on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 5:07 pm:

Happy Birthday, Mr. Moderator.

Oh, and although I understand your reasons for putting up the "part I" I have to agree with Rene. The title of the episode WAS "Workforce".

In the case of "The Best of Both Wolrds" the episode featured "Part I" in the title. This has been standard, but they didn't do it for Workforce, so I would keep the Part I out of the board name. Oh well, I'm not the moderator so I'll shut up, lol.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Polka-Dot Wolf on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 5:08 pm:

Oops my Calendar was on May, not March... I suppose your Birthday isn't for another two days. Oh well, it was a bit early.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By ScottN on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 5:49 pm:

Mr. Wolf, as I pointed out, Startrek.com says it's "Workforce Part 1".

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Sheila on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 1:01 pm:

Janeway's experience in this was kind of like Kirk's in The Paradise Syndrome. She's relieved of her responsiblities as starship captain by forgetting about them, as Kirk did, and enjoys a pleasant interlude with a lover, as did Kirk with Miramanee.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Anonymous on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 9:47 am:

::Periods only go inside quotation marks when entire sentences are being quoted.:: Grammar Cop

According to the MLA style, that's not true. Even with a comma, you put it inside the quotation marks. Jwb52Z


You're right Dan.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 11:57 am:

Anonymous, I didn't even write that.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Polka-Dot Wolf on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 12:15 pm:

Startrek.com is certainly a marvelous website, and archives information well. But hey, the episode title card identified it as "Workforce".

But why argue over which is right? Its just a nit... Neither of them perhaps are "right" its simply one of those marvelous situations of "hey, the producers goofed" which created the guild.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Mark Bowman on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 8:08 pm:

At least one of the consoles looked like it was lifted from the fake Starfleet ship Dauntless in "Hope and Fear." Just like TOS, where the same set pieces were re-used many times. >>>>>>

Come to think of it, many of the doorways in
the power plant looks like they were reused
from Deep Space 9

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Anonymous on Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 10:20 am:

--Anonymous, if you are implanting memories you are implanting more than textbook know-how. For example, swimming viw memories of swimming.--

Spockania, while memories are more than textbook knowledge, I still don't believe they're enough for building workers to specification. Memories, however in-depth, aren't the same as actual life experience. Could one really take a total novice and give him the memories of an airplane pilot with 10 years' experience, then put him at the controls and expect him right off the bat to fly the plane just as well as the pilot who actually has the 10 years' experience? That's hard for me to accept.

On another note, someone wondered what happened to Tom's boss at the bar. Maybe she got a better job. :-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Spockania on Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 11:39 am:

Anon, I don't understand why you don't see memories as the same as real life experience. Take your example of a pilot with 10 yrs experience. How does he know how to fly the plane? He remembers. A novice given the memories would 'remember' exactly like the 'real' experienced pilot would. The novice would 'remember' 10 yrs of flying, would 'remember any emergencies that occured, would 'remember any skills that have to be learned by experienced. In a sense that novice would suddenly be given 10 yrs experience. The nit, if any, is that such technology can exist ('cause it would require very specific targeting of memories).

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Sheila on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 6:30 pm:

How does a dermal regenerator know how far to go? It leaves a tattoo. Why wouldn't it reverse signs of aging, remove a double chin, and restore hair loss?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 9:53 pm:

Sheila, a dermal regenerator does just that. It regenerates skin that was damaged. Those things you mention are not damaged skin.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Sheila on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 3:40 pm:

Why is aged skin not damaged skin? No offense to anyone - I'm probably older than anyone on this board. Also, why is a tattoo not as much damaged skin as is cosmetic surgery to appear to belong to a different species?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 4:17 pm:

Sheila, aging is not damage in the traditional sense.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 4:19 pm:

Tattoos are not skin damage in the same sense either.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Sheila on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 7:20 pm:

What if you wanted to impersonate a Trill and added spots? Could the dermal regenerator tell the difference between that and a tattoo?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Tricorder on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 7:56 pm:

To me, Sheila, it’s a bit odd that a dermal regenerator would regenerate a tattoo.

An example: If a guy today has a tattoo on his left bicep and he suffers a deep gash there, the scar would disfigure the tattoo. If the skin there is badly burned, the appearance also would be affected. So what might happen to the tattoo if a dermal regenerator were available to heal such wounds?

In the instance of the gash, the skin was ripped apart and new skin regenerated. Would the tattoo vanish where the gash ran? I imagine so and there at least would be a need for touchup work by a tattoo artist.

In the instance of the burn, the regenerator’s primary purpose would be to repair the burned tissue and it probably would use the composition of surrounding skin as a template for general appearance. Even if a regenerator could recognize sections of skin with tattoo dyes, I don’t think it could get a detailed enough read on the tattoo’s overall pattern to restore it properly, especially in a medical setting.

As for wrinkles and signs of aging, a dermal regenerator might put Oil of Olay out of business if it were modified for that purpose. For the Doctor’s use, the regenerator only would accelerate the natural ability to produce to new skin and humans do not naturally produce younger-looking skin.

With Trills, there’s probably something with their skin composition so they wouldn’t lose their spots (at worst, they might have to regrow them). I think a regenerator fixing Chakotay’s tattoo is a good nit, as would other instances of regenerators repairing people surgically altered to resemble another species.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 8:09 pm:

Sheila, the spots would not be tattooed on. They would be caused biologically and mimicked.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 8:13 pm:

::To me, Sheila, it’s a bit odd that a dermal regenerator would regenerate a tattoo.:: Tricorder

She's not saying it would regenerate a tattoo. She thinks that a dermal regenerator would remove a tattoo and return the skin to the preexisting condition. All a regenerator would do is return the skin to its condition that it was in before it was changed. I assume that the regenerator can be programmed as to what to do. It would be almost useless if it couldn't.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Tricorder on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 1:14 am:

Jwb52z, I was not saying that Sheila wrote a dermal regenerator would regenerate a tattoo, I was saying it would be odd, especially if it had been written into a show. If a regenerator had no visual effect on a tattoo while treating the underlying skin, that would be the same as regenerating it, by my thinking. Either way, it's a nit.

Sheila, in your first post you wrote a dermal regenerator "leaves a tattoo." I'm can't remember this from the episode. I thought you meant an incident with Chakotay but now I'm not sure. When did it happen?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Sheila on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 7:28 pm:

I meant that when Chakotay used the regenerator to remove his disguise, it restored his face to its usual condition, complete with tattoo.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Tricorder on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 1:21 am:

That's right. As I wrote, I don't think restoring a tattoo would be a typical function of a dermal regenerator, but it probably could be modified for such purpose.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By margie on Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 11:45 am:

Perhaps in Voyager's century tattooing becomes advanced enough that the tattoo changes the genetic construction of the skin below it? (I can't remember enough of the episode that deals with Chakotay getting his tattoo to recall how it was applied.) I know it doesn't sound logical, but many other things in Star Trek are not logical in today's world. Anyway, that would explain how the regenerator knew to leave the tattoo when removing the disguise.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Wednesday, May 09, 2001 - 9:08 am:

"(I can't remember enough of the episode that deals with Chakotay getting his tattoo to recall how it was applied.)"

Um...didn't he have it from the beginning of the series?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By LUIGI NOVI on Wednesday, May 09, 2001 - 2:18 pm:

The episode was the second season "Tattoo". We never really saw him having his applied, though. We saw how his father and his people were given the tattoo by the Rubber Tree People, who used an obviously simple implement, but at that point, the 15-year old Chakotay had not yet begun to identify with his people's traditions, and did not participate in the festivities. The adult Chakotay told the Sky Spirit he later took the tattoo to honor his father, who died fighting the Cardassians. He never indicated what means he used to apply it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Wednesday, May 09, 2001 - 3:44 pm:

Oh...I see. Didn't remember that episode. Still don't. Weird.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By someone who remembered on Thursday, May 10, 2001 - 9:17 am:

not really. you're just too caught up in your own ego to pay attention.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Thursday, May 10, 2001 - 11:30 am:

Oh well. Been awhile since I have seen a season two episode. Silly me

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jwb52z on Thursday, May 10, 2001 - 12:48 pm:

Someone who remembered, please stop the •••••• insults. It is getting boring. Rene didn't do anything to you to deserve it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By someone who was attacked by rene simply for posting information on Thursday, May 10, 2001 - 1:19 pm:

jwb- again, my quarrel is not with you. but check the captain archer board again to see if your claim that rene has done nothing to deserve it is true or not.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rene on Thursday, May 10, 2001 - 1:23 pm:

It's okay, Jwb. You don't have to. All this pointless posting of his will make him lose more and more credibility. It's fun to watch

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By someone who is only waiting for an apology on Thursday, May 10, 2001 - 1:39 pm:

it's hardly pointless as you yourself have bothered to acknowledge my postings.

i could care less about what you think of my credibility. i only seek for you to discontinue your animosity towards anyone who posts something you don't agree with. i did absolutely nothing to offend you, but you chose to insult me. and while i don't take those insults to heart (believe me, your opinions of me are meaningless since i don't even know you), i understand that there are plenty of other people throughout nitcentral that you have alienated, offended, and possibly even hurt in the past.

the fact is that i, as a lurker, as well as several other posters, are tired of you. the routine has gotten old. nitcentral should be a place where people can post things freely without fearing that you (or someone like you) will atack them. as someone pointed out to you in the past, this is a global site, not everyone who posts here is a native english speaker. and it is offensive to insult someone by judging their intelligence by their grammar skills. especially in light of the fact that you yourself commit just as many trangressions against the english language.

but you will never admit that. as i suspect you will never acknowledge that you were wrong. instead, you will probably continue to distort the facts, calling attention away from your transgressions. and you will never apologize. prove me wrong and i will eat crow.

how i act towards you should have no bearing on my credibility as the facts will speak for themselves. and i could care less whether you believe me or not as i know that i will always know more than you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Anonymous on Thursday, May 10, 2001 - 3:20 pm:

Hey!

Anyone whose posts are so annoying that Rene and Jwb have found something they can agree about can't be all bad.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Heyst on Tuesday, May 15, 2001 - 10:17 am:

Did anyone ever find out what WTW's native language is?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Harvey Kitzman on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 12:53 pm:

Just saw the episodes - no UPN here and I'm having to rely on tapes.....

Man, Ralph Malph grew up to be real jerk, didn't he? Fonzie needs to put him in his place.

Another set of humans with Silly Putty on their faces passing for aliens. Man, TPTB and the makeup people aren't even trying anymore.

I was hoping for THE PHOTONIC CANNON! In a rare display of continuity, I was pleased to see Holodoc with the command protocols.

One last question - was any attempt made to get back the life pods and Neelix's ship? I realize that Voyager has an infinite supply of shuttles, but do they also have an infinite supply of life pods, too?

Despite the nits, an interesting concept for the episodes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By LUIGI NOVI on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 9:05 pm:

The photonic cannon wasn't real; it was a fictional device that Doc bluffed the Hierarchy aliens into believing was real. Photonic energy is just the Treknobabbled term for hologram energy.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Harvey Kitzman on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 5:49 pm:

Luigi - I know that. I'm just saying that it would have been funny if he would have tried the bluff again.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 7:10 pm:

Oh. Sorry.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Harvey Kitzman on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 8:22 pm:

No problem, Luigi. I was simply surprised that TPTB actually remembered something that they used in a past episode

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 10:54 pm:

Actually they seem to do that a lot this season with discrete facts. They don't seem to be very good at it when it comes to ongoing premises (torpedo count, crew roster count, distance travelled, number of shuttles in the shuttlebay, etc.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Sophie Hawksworth on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 3:36 am:

On the implanting skills debate:

When I learned to drive I learned the rules very quickly. But I had to think about every single action I performed behind the wheel, and was slow and hesitant as a result.

As my experience of driving grew, I came to perform the same actions by conditioned reaction. Driving became automatic for me, and a lot less stessful.

Obviously there is a difference between having the knowledge of what to do and having the acquired skill to do it swiftly and efficiently.

It's not unreasonable to suppose that it is easier to implant memories than it is to implant skills.

To put it another way: the brain works on many levels simultaneously. Some levels may be more malleable than others.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By TJFleming on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 1:29 pm:

7of9: There is a subspace transponder in the power plant.

And this is somehow supposed to help? "Squawk 7700 and ident." Voyager already knows you're down there. You need a RADIO.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By LUIGI NOVI on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 4:08 pm:

Heyst: Did anyone ever find out what WTW's native language is?
Luigi Novi: I'm fairly certain what it is.

That was a pretty decent couple hours of Trek. I don't even have any nits, just a couple questions.

I guess I missed it, since a few posters point it out, but were the inoculations really for radiation? I only missed a couple minutes, and I don't recall it being discussed at all, so I'm still under the impression that it had something to do with it.

Once Kathy's man decided to help her escape I was sure he was going to die. He surprisingly didn't but when he came to say goodbye why didn't she turn the lights on so they can see each other?

I'd say about a third of this board is actually about the ep.

By inblackestnight on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 9:20 pm:
That was a pretty decent couple hours of Trek. I don't even have any nits, just a couple questions.

1. I guess I missed it, since a few posters point it out, but were the inoculations really for radiation? I only missed a couple minutes, and I don't recall it being discussed at all, so I'm still under the impression that it had something to do with it.

2. Once Kathy's man decided to help her escape I was sure he was going to die. He surprisingly didn't but when he came to say goodbye why didn't she turn the lights on so they can see each other?

I'd say about a third of this board is actually about the ep.

1. the innoculations may or may not have been for real radiation from the plant. It's not specified.

2. Janeway left the lights off so taht she could imagine him as Mark from Earth.


By Brian Lombard on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 9:33 am:


BTW. Quarren was the name of the 31st century Kyrian who rescued Doc's program from the EMH backup module. They've simply run out of names!

Quarren is also the name of alien species in Star Wars I think. I think it's the tenticle face creature in Jabba the Hutt's palace.

PaulG: Why is it so dark in the power plant at night? This place should be running 24/7.
Steve: I was wondering why the power plant was not staffed round-the-clock. Judging by what happened after they took it out, it should be.
For some reason this ep was dark quite a bit, particularly when it shouldn't have been (the plant, Kathy's quarters, Janeway's ready room...). The plant should be running around the clock; BLT and I think a couple others mention working a night shift.

TomM: Matter-antimatter annihilation, as in Photon Torpedoes, produces tremendous energy release in the form of photons...
Yacht: The doctor used a regular photon torpedo and detonated it in between the two ships, when typically it would detonate on impact with the shields...
For one thing, are we sure it was a photon torpedo and not simply looked like one? Under the assumption it was, photons is just one form of energy an explosion of this type releases, and even in the improper way this show uses the term 'photonic' it shouldn't have the effect we see here. As Mr. Luxury Yacht describes, why would shooting a PT with a phaser be more effective than it's normal use?

cstadulis: [Harry] thinks up of a way to save Voyager (with the escape pod thing), saving everyone's butts in the process, and no one even says good job!
While I agree a promotion for Harry is way past due, particularly since Tom was given one before him, the Doc does say "nicely done Mr. Kim" (or something like that) during this scene

Spockania: Apparently things are so bad that it is actually cost effective to kidnap and brainwash workers. Why not just go to Jaffen's planet and recruit from the unemployed there? Or why not go to some other planet? [...] So the real nit with this episode is- why is there a labor shortage?
Excellent point! Not only that, but considering their level of medical and astronomical technology why would they need so many 'living' workers to begin with?

Jwb52z: a dermal regenerator does just that. It regenerates skin that was damaged... aging is not damage in the traditional sense... Tattoos are not skin damage in the same sense either.
It's been established in Trek that prosthetics are done in a way that avoids detection, even by limited medical scans. While it makes sense to be able to adjust the settings of a dermal regenerator, this particular one is not SF technology, and magically removing prosthetics that wouldn't be read as damaged skin is a nit. Also, I'd say the effects of aging on skin is the definition of traditional damage; and tattoos most certainly is damage to skin. The funny thing about that though, Chuckle's tattoo isn't visible after he removes the prosthetics but later in the ep.

It was mentioned once or twice here but I think the lack of a universal translator, which is in the com-badges, is fairly significant in this two-parter. As usual, a simple line to explain it was left out for some reason; the same with what happened to Naomi and Icheb.

The reason given for Jaffen not being able to join the crew of Voyager was that it would be inappropriate due to fraternizing; this is complete nonsense. For one thing, Jaffen can't be a SF crew member in the first place: like Seven, Neelix, and even Naomi. He's a civilian and hasn't been to SF Academy. Not only that, but Janeway fraternizes with her crew all the time! Fraternizing isn't just about romantic relationships, it's any interaction with lower-ranking officers/enlisted that shows even the appearance of favoritism; which is a reoccurring theme throughout Trek but a nit none-the-less. While Jaffen was given a promotion at the plant, if he joined Voyager he wouldn't have to work at all if he didn't want to, which takes away any reason for him not to come along.