By Nathan on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:15 pm:
Was it ever the Flagship of the Fleet?
What about Kirk's Enterprise from TOS was it ever the Flagship of the Fleet?
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By Snick on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:38 pm:
No, and yes.
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By ScottN on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:55 pm:
Why would Voyager be the flagship? It's a dinky little science vessel!
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By Thande on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 1:27 pm:
Science vessel in the first season. Seemed to shift to becoming a mainstream medium cruiser toward the end (Admiral Ross had one as his flagship IN THE DOMINION WAR, for crying out loud!!)
Although I was a bit suspicious of its classification as a science vessel in the first place: Voyager has 13 phaser arrays and 4 torpedo launchers, compared to the (twice as big and 6 times the crew) Enterprise-D's 11 phasers and 2 torpedo launchers. To quote Shran, "You're rather heavily armed for explorers..."
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By Thande on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 1:28 pm:
And while we only know for sure that the E-D and E-E are the flagships, it seems reasonable to assume that Kirk's Enterprise was also the flagship of its era. And so, obviously, was Archer's. Maybe the Federation flagship is always called Enterprise (though what did they use between the destruction of the E-C and building of the E-D?)
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By Adam on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 5:26 pm:
Well yeah the Voyager has more weapons then Enterprise-D. Voyager was a cruiser (ie warship), Enterprise D was an Explorer (ie science ship.) The two have different roles and thus different requirements.
No Kirk's Enterprise wasn't the flag ship. If it was Commodor Decker (or any other) would have been there instead of Jimmy boy. It was a ship in the fleet that proved itself time and again. That doesn't make it the flag ships.
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By LUIGI NOVI on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 10:48 pm:
Nothing has ever established that Voyager or Enterprise was a "cruiser" or "warship" or "explorer," or even that there's any such thing. None of these are actual ship class designations, despite Adam's use of a capital "e" on "Explorer." These are arbitrary designations on Adam's part, and are not based on any sort of canon material. Voyager is an Intrepid-class ship, not a warship. The only class we know that was built as a warship was the Defiant class. Strictly speaking, all other classes, including the Galaxy class and Intrepid class, are "explorer" and/or "science" vessels.
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By Thande on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 1:26 am:
Particularly since in 'Living Witness' the Doctor specifically said Voyager was not a warship.
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By ScottN on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 12:25 pm:
In addition, Voyager is a new ship with a rookie captain. The "Flagship" wouldn't have a rookie captain.
Didn't they mention in Caretaker that Voyager was a science vessel?
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By LUIGI NOVI on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 2:31 pm:
I don't believe they did, nor do I think they ever mentioned that Janeway was a rookie captain.
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By ScottN on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 2:51 pm:
I thought it was established in either Caretaker or Relativity that this was her first command.
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By Adam on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 4:44 pm:
I'm pretty sure in the Enterprise D technical manual it said there are three types of star ships. Explorers, cruisers and escorts. It then went on to say the Enterprise D is an explorer. IIRC they said somewhere in DS9 the Defiant is an escort.
Explorers are just that. They boldly go where no one has gone before. Meeting new races and doing diplomatic stuff. Thats why the E-D had families on board and was lightly armed for its size. It was a luxury liner that could defend itself. It was meant to be away for long stretches of time and more "comfortable" then a warship.
Cruisers are the "warships" of Starfleet. They escort transports carrying anti-matter and the such. When its time to take names, its time to call in the cruisers. Because they're the buissness end of starfleet they're more heavily armed and less comfortable.
Escorts. Just what it says. They do things like escort convoys and stay in one general area. Usually not very heavily armed (Defiant being the exception and proving the rule by almost shaking herself apart) and not very comfortable because they aren't away from base much.
Honestly I didn't watch much Voyager, hated the show from the first episode. To much technobabble, to much FX and not enough story. That being said, which catagory above would you put the Intrepid class in?
Was she a small short ranged ship?
Was she a flying Hotel?
Or was she a medium sized ship. Meant to be the "Police" of the Federation? Remember her original mission was to hunt down and arrest the Maquis in the badlands.
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By LUIGI NOVI on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 10:30 pm:
First, the Tech Manual is not canon. The material therein that is not derived from the epiosdes and movies is only conjecture.
Second, the Enterprise-D was hardly "lightly armed."
The Defiant was a warship. It was classified as an escort only offically, perhaps because Starfleet typically didn't believe in warships, and perhaps because of the delicate nature of the Defiant's "special" features. "Unofficially," as Sisko stated, it's "a warship, nothing more, nothing less." It doesn't have any of the luxuries that one would expect for an escort, and it was designed to fight the Borg, something that hardly requires an "escort."
ScottN: I thought it was established in either Caretaker or Relativity that this was her first command.
Luigi Novi: I'm pretty sure no such mention was made in Caretaker, and I reviewed the teaser and Act 1 of Relativity, and there was nada.
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By Thande on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 2:48 am:
However, I think it was mentioned in Shattered.
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By Torque, Son of Keplar on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 7:22 pm:
It was established in Relativity, When she tries out the Captain's seat, When she gets a pop quiz from the Admiral.
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By inblackestnight on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 2:44 pm:
I think it's safe to say that the people who wrote the tech manuals, and such, and those involved with the shows and movies did not communicate much since they contradict each other quite frequently. Read the Chronology book and then watch First Contact if you don't agree.
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By Thande on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 4:46 am:
The DS9 tech manual is probably the worst example of that.
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By G H Denison on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 12:35 pm:
Janeway is a new captain, previously being a Science Officer. It is established in Relativity, and hinted at quite unambiguously in Caretaker.
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By inblackestnight on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 2:01 pm:
This may be the wrong board for this question but wasn't the 1701-D's photon torpedo tubes different, which is why there was only one fore and aft? When firing a full spread the E-D can fire three, or more, at once while others just alternate. Also, Voyager only has more phaser arrays because its saucer arrays are not connected at the front, which isn't a bad idea but those arrays can fire from more than one area at once.
I think the E-D could fire many torpedoes at once (as seen in "Yesterday's Znterprise"). I think the max. number per burst was 10, but I don't know if this has been established. Voyager never seemed to fire more than one at a time, based on onscreen evidence.
LN: Nothing has ever established that Voyager or Enterprise was a "cruiser" or "warship" or "explorer," or even that there's any such thing. None of these are actual ship class designations...
I recently rewatched ST III and in the scene where Chekov discovers a lifeform in Spock's quarters, which were supposed to be sealed, on the monitor above the Enterprise's layout it said HEAVY CRUISER after the ship's hull number. This may be the only time this designation is stated but I was reminded of this board when I saw that.
Star Trek V had Captain Klaa say "Federation Battle Cruiser" so we know that the Klingons are at least designating ships.
I don't remember it being said on ST V, but the first officer on the BoP in ST III said those words. I'm not saying it wasn't said on Final Frontier, I just don't recall.
maybe you're right... I just don't have the enthusiasm to pull out ST V and check.