Wicca and Neo-Paganism aren't cults you twit. Scientology and Moonies are fairly internationally recognized. Alot of cults are small and generally aren't noticed by people outside the area where they're based. What I want to know is why Christianity isn't listed as a cult.
It was a cult in the beginning. It took about a hundred years to grow out of it.
It's nice knowing that Peter is still a troll. Such a predictable post from him. Doesn't he have a broader range of thoughts in his skull, or is it that narrow a band-width in there?
Peter, it is possible to have a board for the discussion of religous cults in general and other boards to discuss specific "cults." Furthermore, it is only your opinion that Wicca, Neo-Paganism, Scientology, and Moonies are cults while Christianity is not. Don't make me start quoting the dictionary again, but a cult is a specific system of beliefs. In a way, all religions are cults. If you are talking about a cult as being a small group that brainwashes and controls it's members, which is how the word is used in the popular press, then I think you are still incorrect in calling the aabove mentioned religions cults. Even though I do not agree with the beliefs of those religions, I don't think they are brainwashing their followers any more than fundamentalist Christians, extreme Moslems, and devout Buddhists are.
Merry
Even though I do not agree with the beliefs of those religions, I don't think they are brainwashing their followers any more than fundamentalist Christians, extreme Moslems, and devout Buddhists are.
Merry
Well said, But my own belief is that when anyone starts spouting off about "Super Powered" beings , all based on very old books, methinks that other wise sane peoples are a lil off, brainwashed, or just as likely to believe comic book superheroes are a reality we just don't see. Any Religion has EQUAL claim to validity, as all are just what ever you choose to believe, albeit disregarding whatever you can plainly see as reality.
First Hand Experience Talking Now:
Scientology not only uses brianwashing, they sue threats. I've seen assault rifles y'all.
'Cuz Christianity, like most religions, isn't a cult. I consider a cult like one of those sham things when the head dude preaches for five seconds, throws some flowers around, and grabs nine million dollars. Or like Jim Jones.
Yeah, MikeC, even an idiot could tell there is something wrong when a leader has a mass suicide with his followers.
LOL.
Peter, Peter, Pumpkin Eater. I wanred you about trolling. Now see the consequences.
Oh, darn! I missed all of Peter's platitudist posts! Gee, thanks, Sax.
In a way, all religions are cults.
I've mentioned this before, once upon a time ago. I said then that they're basically two words for the same thing, in that someone has some ideas about God and such, spouts off to some people, gathers some followers and then they start calling themselves a church. Check the definitions for both words from Merriam-Webster's online dictionary.
{b Religion
1 a :} the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
- re·li·gion·less adjective
Cult
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
This entry also lists several suffixes for cult.
The title Religion was supposed to be boldfaced. Damned Netscape screwed up and forces me to use damned IE now! It doesn't let me revise messages several times like Netscape does, but Netscape messed up so now I'm forced to use IE till I can get the problem fixed!
In the definitions of cult, 3,4, and probably 5 do not work regarding Christianity. 1 and 2 would work, but I would not use cult because of the negative connotation it has.
True, but they're still two words for the same thing. The only difference, as far as I'm concerned, depends on one's perception of them, which I wouldn't argue with, cuz I'm right. I'm always right, so don't you argue with me on that! Cuz you'll never win, I tell ya! Never! Mwahahahahaha!!!
I think a cult is a more discriptive form of a religion.
I belive cults are generally more secretive, for the current use of the word. Though techically, Religion is word that properly should only apply to the Judeo-Christian tradition. So says Encarta
I see. So Hinduism or Buddhism are not Religions???
Nope, they're religions. It looks identical, but there's a different syllable stress.
Mike, I refer to Matt Pesti's "Religion is word that properly should only apply to the Judeo-Christian tradition".
Judeo-Christian is ReLIGion.
Hinduism and Buddhism are RELigion.
Umm.. what's the difference?
Don't you see!
ReLIGions are not RELigions.
Also, it's a joke.
Okay, if you say so!
Blasted Spelling Errors.
And Scott Blame Microsoft Encarta
Okay here is a question. What precisely qualifies as brainwashing in a religiois cult? Is that any different from the way some children are brought up to be a certain religion from birth? What measures should be taken to stop brainwashing?
Peter.
The difference is that brainwashing would not leave any room for anything else but those beliefs that are indoctrinated into the person, Peter. It is not brainwashing unless the person is forced to only think in one way. That point comes where they begin to lose the ability or wish to think for their own selves.
. It is not brainwashing unless the person is forced to only think in one way = Jwb52z
The way Peter was brought up?
I don't know Peter well enough to assume how he was brought up, Bucky.
True, we can't get a COMPLETE picture not having met the guy face-to-face, but, we do have a DECENT picture.
Yes. Because when Peter actually asks a legitimate question, one must bite his head off and destroy any chance of having a meaningful conversation.
To answer your question, Peter, I would say that the difference would lie somewhere in how people are taught to deal with other modes of belief. If it's drilled into your head from day 1 that nothing else matters, you are right, you don't have to respect or even listen to anyone else's argument, and that anything anyone else tells you is automatically wrong, that would be brainwashing. Also, given that we're talking about cults, I think any suggestions to give one person lots of money could be considered forms of brainwashing as well.
::Also, given that we're talking about cults, I think any suggestions to give one person lots of money could be considered forms of brainwashing as well.:: Matthew Patterson
Now, why couldn't someone have told the Catholic Church about that when they still practiced the idea of "Indulgences?"
One thing that differentiates brainwashing from your garden-variety religious teaching is that cults use scientific techniques to weaken you and make you more susceptible to their doctrine. Legitimate religions may also do this to some extent, but the difference is that they don't try to hide their techniques from potential believers.
Cults, on the other hand, will isolate you from your family and friends (either mentally or physically) so that you long for something--anything--to fill the gap. In the case of the Aum Shinrikyo cult, I think they did that, plus they would kidnap people and isolate them for days in dark rooms in order to make the victims more docile and malleable.
Jwb52z,
Now, why couldn't someone have told the Catholic Church about that when they still practiced the idea of "Indulgences?"
They did. They were called "Protestants".
William Berry, you caught my little joke. Thank you. And yes, I know it was very little.
Actually, the RC church still sella indugences. It's just that now you pay for them in "spiritual currency" (prayer and good deeds). Almost any RC prayerbook will tell you the "indulgence value" of each prayer, and the special "bargain rates" for special "prayer sets" (rosaries, novenas, etc.)
Anonymous, that makes proper penance for sin sound cheap and taudry.
Anonymous, that's *not* what that's for. I suggest you actually consult a priest before spouting off.
I’m not certain about the difference between brainwashing and raising a child in the religion of his parents, but I wold say difference between religions and cults in general is the amount of freedom the follower is given to believe what they want, to practice the belief as they see fit, to leave the group if desired, and whether retribution is enacted upon the follower if he/she does. I’d also say that the whether a person is brainwashed is also contingent upon how weak that person is in their ability to think independently.
I read Michael Shermer’s Why People Believe Weird ThingsPseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time last year, and it blew me away. Particularly interesting is how he tells of how, for a time, he was into Ayn Rand and Objectivism, how he came to observe cult-like behavior in Ayn Rand and her followers, and in a foreword to the following (from pages 119-120 of the book), pointed out that "when you leave the ‘relgious’ component out of the definition of cult, thus broadening the word’s usage, it becomes clear that Objectivism was (and is) a type of cult—a cult of personality—as are many other, non-religious groups.
A cult is characterized by:
Veneration of the leader: Glorification of the leader to the point of virtual sainthood or divinity.
Inerrancy of the leader: Belief that the leader cannot be wrong.
Omniscience of the leader: Acceptance of the leader’s beliefs and pronouncements on all subjects, from the philosophical to the trivial.
Persuasive techniques: Methods, from the benign to coercive, used to recruit new followers and reinforce current beliefs.
Hidden agendas: The true nature of the group’s beliefs and plans is obscured from or not fully disclosed to potential recruits and the general public.
Deceit: Recruits and followers are not told everything they should know about the leader and the group’s inner circle, and particularly disconcerting flaws or potentially embarrasing events or circumstances are covered up.
Financial and/or sexual exploitation: Recruits and followers are persuaded to invest money and other assets in the group, the leader may develop sexual relations with one or more of the followers.
Absolute truth: Belief that the leader and/or the group has discovered final knowledge on any number of subjects.
Absolute morality: Belief that the leader and/or the group has developed a system of right and wrong thought and action applicable to members and nonmembers alike. Those who strictly follow the moral code become and remain members; those who do not are dismissed or punished."
Where to devil-worshippers think they'll go when they die? And where do they think non-devil worshippers will go? Thanks.
Please do not feed the troll.
If you feed trolls sometimes they eat your arm.
Sounds like Catholicism to me, Luigi.=)
Metrion Cascade,
I know it was a quip, but please tell me of Catholicism's hidden agenda.
Well, to me, Metrion, it isn't Catholocism, it's the way it's practiced. If I don't believe in the inerrancy of the Pope, and I'm willing to listen to those who disagree with me, then is "my" Catholicism a cult? I'd think not. But for peoole who cannot be argued with, who make ultimate value judgements on others simply for not agreeing with them, I'd say those Catholics are cultists.
It's not the idea or belief. It's the way those who claim to hold it behave in regards to it. For example, Michael Shermer pointed out that Leonard Peikoff, the heir to Ayn Rand, carries on the cultish thinking about Rand, refusing to listen to any fair assessment of Rand that mentions her flaws and hypocrasies, but that a group of scholars at The Institute for Objectivist Studies, headed by David Kelly, studiers Rand's wok, but does not worship her as "the greatest human being who has ever lived," as an earlier Rand heir put it, and are very open to criticism of Rand.
"Thou shall not kill" and "Thou shall not murder" are good rules, and not cult-like philosophy, regardless of whether some who claim to follow the religion built around such things think non-Christians and atheists are morally inferior.
Luigi,
I agree with you but quibble with your word choice.
make ultimate value judgements on others simply for not agreeing with them, I'd say those Catholics are cultists - Luigi Novi
That refers to any and all "religions" (quotes to include Moonie and Methodists) not just Catholics.
If you complain I'm arguing with your word choice just call me paranoid about singling out a group inadvertently. (Especially if the group may include me.)
I didn't single out that group. Metrion did. I was simply referring to the group as an example because he brought it up.
Luigi,
I stand corrected. Thanks for the 411.