Welcome back, Machiko!

Oh, I don't know if I'm "back", as it were.

But thank you!

Machiko! How ya doing, babe?! I missed ya! Congrats on the special announcement! As I've asked your intended, if it's not asking too much, I'd be very flattered if you named your first son after me. *S*

BTW, do you still use the ICQ name I have on my contact list or do you not use it anymore? I have a new computer and asked to add you to ICQ again but never heard from ya. When I found out about the nuptials I figured that was why.

Oh, and I'm a moderator now for "Night Visions". I've gotten behind on working on it, though. Being laid off can do that to a person.

My computer got left behind in Arizona, and according to my parents, it doesn't even load the C-drive during start-up anymore.

So I have to use Elroy now.

And it looks like I'm going to lean heavily towards going to Arizona at holiday time, via the Eggplant, to retrieve it (and a bunch of other stuff).

And no, there shall be no son named Mark.

Well, ok, MJ, but you know, if you should change your mind...

Mark, Machiko said that there will be no son named Mark, but she didn't say she wouldn't name a daughter after you. "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!"

Hey! That's my line!

MarkN, just remember, Machiko also said once "I will never get married" if I remember right. You never know what she'll do so don't lose hope about the name thing.

And before that she belived it was a evil demeaning institution of the patriarchy.

Matt Pesti, Ideologically stable since 1998

Hey, Pesti, did I ever say I changed my thought on marriage?

Goddess, I just love being unpredictable.

I'm in it just to get Morgan's paychecks in my bank account. And I'm stuck with him for at least two years anyway, what with us buying the Eggplant and all that.

No daughter shall be named Marcia either.

Machiko, my dear lady, I have a hard time believing you would really be that heartless.

Why do you think I wouldn't be so heartless as to not name my daughter Marcia? I can be very cruel about names. I want either Morghanna or Celta for a name.

No, not the name thing Machiko, I meant about basically saying, "I only have to stay with Mark Morgan 2 years because of the eggplant."

she was joking

If your're going to give her a Celtic name, can you go with one of those "We don't give a •••• about Angelization spellings". You know, like Crwynyhyr, or Grywgyh, or L'yhwrir, or something that would be given to a Welsh pig Farmer, or a guy with antlers (Literary joke, From some book of three or something. Blasted Welsh poetry, it's mentioned in Bridge to Terabithia).

What's a eggplant, beside from a berry?

Uh...J buddy, two years is the minimum I'm stuck with Morgan. That's how long we have to pay off the Eggplant. Why wouldn't I be so cruel as to make him suffer when the loan shows I'm the primary holder, and my name will appear on the registration, and it does on the insurance? You make no sense.

Pesti dude, I think the father of my child might have some serious objection. He's already arguing about Morghanna, and he gives me weird looks at Celta.

Of course...we are talking about the same man who made my mother laugh at his reaction to some seriously fresh seafood (read: the heads were not removed). Maybe he has some redeeming qualities after all...........

Maybe not.

He's already arguing about Morghanna, and he gives me weird looks at Celta.

Good, he has some sense. ^_^

Sorry, but just about the only thing "Morghanna" brings to my mind is a six-foot-tall evil sorceress dressed in animal skins with a belt of skulls and a horned headpiece.

My, that was overly detailed.

"Machiko also said once "I will never get married" if I remember right. You never know what she'll do so don't lose hope about the name thing." - Jwb


"And before that she belived it was a evil demeaning institution of the patriarchy." - Matt Pesti

Don't forget folks, she also said she didn't want to have kids. I'm beginning to wonder if we have a clone on our hands.

::"We don't give a •••• about Angelization spellings".:: Matt Pesti

Shouldn't that be "Anglicanization?"

::What's a eggplant, beside from a berry?:: Matt Pesti

An eggplant is not a berry. It's a vegetable.

::Uh...J buddy, two years is the minimum I'm stuck with Morgan. That's how long we have to pay off the Eggplant. Why wouldn't I be so cruel as to make him suffer when the loan shows I'm the primary holder, and my name will appear on the registration, and it does on the insurance? You make no sense.:: My Dear Miss M

That must be a HUGE eggplant to cost enough to have to be paid out over 2 years. I've never seen a vegetable that big.

::Don't forget folks, she also said she didn't want to have kids. I'm beginning to wonder if we have a clone on our hands.:: Benn

You might be right since she called me "J, Buddy" instead of what she used to call me.

That must be a HUGE eggplant to cost enough to have to be paid out over 2 years. I've never seen a vegetable that big.

Jwb, I was thinking the same thing. LOL

*Indignant look at Benn* I don't want kids. Kids hate me. Morgan wants kids. I'm going to compromise on one. Maybe. If I get to name my child either Celta or Taliesin.

The Eggplant, gentlemen, is what I call our car. A '94 Grand Am; the colour is eggplant chateau.

And Matthew, Morgan can't have too much sense. He's wanting to marry me, after all.

Machiko, if you don't want them you should not have them. Morgan will just have to live with that. You can't be a loving mother if you never wanted the kid in the first place. You would only be going through the motions. Machiko, how were we supposed to know what you call your car?

Machiko, were you my wife-to-be and we had a daughter sometime, I'd be open to any name you'd like, especially if it's either an unusual spelling of a known name or one that's totally original. I'd prefer that her first name be Olivia, but I might be willing to have it as a middle name instead, but not with another name that also ended with "a". Of course, since it's never gonna happen anyway, I ain't gonna worry about it.

"*Indignant look at Benn*" - Machiko

Why would you look at me like that? Why I haven't done anything wrong at all (he said "innocently".)

Machiko, how were we supposed to know what you call your car? Jwb52z

From context. I'd assumed it was a car. Probably purple, possibly rounded like a Volkswagen. Two out of three.

An eggplant is not a berry. It's a vegetable.

Technically, the part of the eggplant plant that we eat as a vegetable (as with the tomato) is the fruit. And if it meets the definition (which I haven't fact-checked, yet), it would also be a berry.

Why, darling J, do you mean to say that the terms "loan" and "registration" and "insurance" weren't major hitters in the clue game?

Mark, about the only thing Morgan and I have agreed upon is that a girl's middle name would be Machiko (a type of family tradition). And I'm going to show your post to him...you're right. He should learn that I'm the one in charge around here, and it's my way (yeah, right).

And don't you dare give me that innocent look, Mr Allen. I'm not falling for it.

What innocent look? :-T

Should we start a pool on how long she stays married to Morgan? How many children they'll really have? And if she leave him after The Eggplant is paid off, will she want custody of the children? >;->

I know. I'm dead meat after that last post. Machiko and Morgan'll be coming to Dallas just to get medieval on my ass. But first they have to find me.

And it didn't help that you let your picture get out in the open, Benn. Better find a plastic surgeon, quick.

How would you want your new face to look?

If I wanna be cheap about it, I could just let Machiko and Morgan rearrange my face for me.

"And it didn't help that you let your picture get out in the open..." - Snickerdoodle

I know Machiko has seen it and I presume Mark did, too. And I know Juli, Margie, Padawan, Duke and Patterson have also seen it. Derf and I have met. That leaves the question when did you see it, Snick, and who all else has?

Benn, mi amigo...did I mention that a brother of mine lives in Dallas?

Gee, Benn. Thanks for forgetting all about me. You sent it to me, too, but when I just tried looking at it I got a dialog box that said it couldn't be displayed "because a suitable graphics importer could not be found." What's surprising is that I was able see it and some other pix I got from you and Patterson when I got them from you, but not now.

I didn't send it. Machiko must've sent it. (I knew I should've asked that little witch who all she sent it to.) Howcum I didn't get a picture of you MarkN. 'Twas meant to be a two-way street.

Well, I know that back in June, you said you were passing through Dallas last month, Machiko. I thought it had something to do with your godchild. That still doesn't mean you can find me that easily. We don't call it "Big D" for nothin'!

I've got an infiltrator (buddy) in RM who passes on to me all interesting stuff I can't see for myself here. It's been fun reading your discussions and flamewars. I was as thrilled as you guys when I heard M&M were tying the knot. I just never post here, and NEVER on-topic. Well, the religious topic, anyway.

If a baby is taking Mark's last name, how about using the first name Morgan? Tee Hee!

I think Margie's lost me somewhere. Mark's last name is Morgan. I may be eccentric, but I refuse to name my child Morgan Morgan.

I didn't send your picture to Mark, Benn. Unless you said I could...and Mark didn't send his picture to anyone anyway. Miserly scumbag...

And since my brother lives in Dallas, I can have him seek you out. He's quite good at what he does...

Personally, I'd love to see you name the child for the Washer at the Ford, if it's a girl, and for the Lord of the Hunt if it's a boy, but I can understand if the other parent is reluctant to subject a child growing up in Middle America to the cruelty of other children for having too unusual a name.

Hey, then the kid could be like Major Major (I wonder if he'll look like Henry Fonda )

So, Snick, someone sent you my picture without my authorization? The only people who officially were to get it were Matthew Patterson, Padawan, Machiko, Matt Duke, Juli K and Margie. That pretty well narrows down who your infiltrator is. I've got my suspicions.

As for ,MarkN, if I didn't send you my picture, and Machiko didn't, mind explaining how you got it?

Incidentally, if you and Snicker have gotten my pic, you both owe me a photo of yourselves.

Machiko, let your brother look for me. If I don't wanna be found, I won't be. No matter how good your brother is at what he does. Whatever that is.

As for the pool, I'm willing to bet Machiko and Morgan are married long after the Eggplant is paid off, and that they have at least two children.

Twern't ME Benn ... even if I had your picture, I wouldn't give it away ... I'd use it for mosquito protection! (wink-wink)

Gee, thanks Derf. I know it wasn't you.

Well, it warn't me, goshdernit!

Welcome back, Machiko (if you're really "back"). And congratulations. I know you'll have many happy years with the Eggpla--er, Morgan, I mean. ;)

Thank you, Juli! At least someone's sincere...

Hey, Benn, I didn't send your picture to Doodle. I don't even know who Doodle is. And I'm sure my brother can find you.

There are few things stranger in life than watching Morgan's goldfish defecate on the algae-eater. Then swimming off like crazy...

Oh, and Benn...about your wager...HA! Morgan'll be lucky to get one kid out of me! I'm all for permanent sterilisation, but alas, the man just doesn't trust me with a knife near him...

I sent it to MarkN, as you'll see if you go back and read his post. He told me he'd gotten it before but was unable to see it, so I figured why not.

::Technically, the part of the eggplant plant that we eat as a vegetable (as with the tomato) is the fruit. And if it meets the definition (which I haven't fact-checked, yet), it would also be a berry.:: TomM

Would you really want to drink eggplant juice?

::Why, darling J, do you mean to say that the terms "loan" and "registration" and "insurance" weren't major hitters in the clue game?:: My Dear Miss M

Well, I wasn't thinking of anything beyond what you actually said and what could possibly come from it in my mind. Being of Japanese heritage, I thought, "maybe she knows some species of eggplant that is extremely huge but tastes good and is extremely expensive."

::I think Margie's lost me somewhere. Mark's last name is Morgan. I may be eccentric, but I refuse to name my child Morgan Morgan.:: My Dear Miss M

Somehow I think that you should not give her a first name beginning with M either because that would sound eccentric I think. I think that an intelligent but cruel kid would have fun with a person who's initials were "MMM." I am pleading with you though, don't have kids if you will not love them. It is not fair to them or their father.

Yes, Matthew. I explained to Benn in an email that it was indeed you who sent me his pic. When you sent all those pix of you, him, Margie (I think it was you who sent hers) and Pesti I was able to open them up then and look at them but when I try now in where they were saved it won't let me do it. It's some sort of WinME picture saving program whose name I forget. Even when I search for the pix by name and find them they still won't be opened.

As for sending my pic to anyone, I don't have my scanner working or hooked up to this puter (nor will I probably anytime soon cuz I'm not much of one to really hurry some things), but I may have a pic or two on my older computer that I could send to MJ on MarkM's ICQ if we can catch each other on at the same time, and MJ could send it to whomever wants it. The only thing is I don't have any recent pix, but then I don't age very quickly, either, so a 10yo pic of me will still pretty much look like me now, except for having slightly graying hair and being somewhat chubbier. I got laid off from work not 2 weeks ago and one woman I worked (who got to keep her job and she's been there less than me!) has a digital camera she said I could use sometime to take pix of myself to put right onto my computer, so I just may try that, instead, if I can't get my own webcam to work. It was working on my older computer and I had some pix from it, but when I felt I had to reformat (turned out to be unnecessary, damnit!) for fear I'd gotten a virus, I couldn't get the camera to fully work again, so for now I don't have any pix at all. But when I do I'll send one or two to Patterson sometime that we're on ICQ together.

The Morgan Morgan thing was a joke. Really!

I'd never subject my child to something like that. Then again, I would think twice about giving a kid my last name, with 6 consonants in the middle of it!

margie, I sympathize. Nobody wants to believe the four consonants in a row at the end of my name.

Mark-

I don't know much about WinME, except that it tends to get quirky, so if it's really a WinME problem I can't help you. But from your description, it may be a problem of different programs fighting over which gets the "right" to open your graphics files. Did you download any shareware lately that might have expired, or removed any programs? Because if the program Windows thinks has claimed the right to open a file is no longer functioning, you will get that result.

If this is your problem, there are two solutions. The easier one is to install (or re-install) a different program that will claim the right to open those files. If you have a scanner, try re-installing the software that came with it, or if you have a favorite graphics program, try that.

The second solution is to re-assign the files to another program by hand. You can do this either with a registry editor (not reccommended unless you really know exactly what you are doing), or with the "File Types" option in the "Edit" menu of any Windows Explorer window.

Uh...J buddy...if I choose to take Morgan's last name, my initials will be MMM.

I, however, am leaning towards being hyphenated. Very heavily.

And what's up with making me into some monster who hates kids? Kids hate me. I don't hate kids, I just have an extremely low tolerance for those who are ill-behaved and scream and cry to get their way.

Which seems to account for 95% of all American children, now that I think about it...

Why do kids hate you, Machiko? People been slandering you (You know, gingerbread houses and the like)?

I, however, am leaning towards being hyphenated. Very heavily.

I'd think that would hurt... you know...

Doktor: Zo. Ve vill haf to hyphenate you, ja?
Patient: No, not hyphenation!!!!

Good news. I actually got the camera to work after all! I think I know now why I couldn't get it to work agani on the older computer. I have Go!Zilla and the patch update I needed to get this to work was on it, partially downloaded, so all I needed to do was continue the installation (I'd either didn't feel like it earlier for fear of its taking too long to finish, or else I'd forget), so I came online earlier today and finished the download. I was having problems at first, but then after turning off the puter (so I could watch "EdTV" on Starz) and turning it back on minutes ago my system automatically reconfigged itself (I think that's what didn't happen before on the old system) and now my camera works and I took a pic and sent a message about it to everyone on my ICQ list, including MJ, under MarkM's nick, and Matthew Patterson, so when I'm online at the same time with either of those two, or both, I'll send my pic to them. I could try sending it by email, if anyone doesn't mind them being sent as attachments. Don't worry, I know nothing about creating, let alone sending, viruses. I'd only send one if I didn't know I already had one, but Norton's good about telling me so I'd know.

However, for all of you women here who've always thought that I'm an incredibly gorgeous hunk (c'mon, admit it, you did so think that!) that's infinitely more attractive than guys like Brad Pitt, Mel Gibson, Pierce Brosnan and Tom Cruise and their like, well, I hate to burst your bubble, but I'm just an ordinary looking guy.

Mark, email it to me, please. Elroy is incapable of running ICQ while online.

Scott, you're so not funny...just like Morgan...*Sigh*

And Paddy, kids hate me 'cause I don't put up with the whining and crying and "he hit me first" BS. Get into a fight? You're both going to be disciplined.

Hey, it's cool with me that MarkN has my picture. I was just trying to figure where he got it from. I probably said it was okay, but have forgotten.

Be a neat trick, Machiko, if your brother could find me. I'm not in the phone book and any information you have regarding where I work is outdated. I quit the company a week ago Monday. Finally had enough of it. I already got a new job, working normal human hours. No more sleeping during the day.

Oh, and, uh, 'Chiko, weren't you the one who said you didn't like children?

::I just have an extremely low tolerance for those who are ill-behaved and scream and cry to get their way.:: My Dear Miss M

Please don't have children if that bothers you so much. Every child does that at one time or another. It is not just American children. Even Asian children have had fits before.

Alas, if it ain't one thing it's another with me. I got the camera working but I can't seem to send it by ICQ or email and I dunno why, but I'll keep trying. If it's by email then it'll be on my Hotmail account.

And about liking kids, well, I like kids...but only if you cook 'em juuuust right; not overcooked or undercooked, with just the right amount of spices, and served with a good wine.

Oh, I'm sorry. Did I say too much about myself?

::I, however, am leaning towards being hyphenated. Very heavily.::

Are you one of those women that thinks taking your husband's name means you don't exist or some other pseudochauvinistic force is acting upon you?

::And Paddy, kids hate me 'cause I don't put up with the whining and crying and "he hit me first" BS. Get into a fight? You're both going to be disciplined.:: My Dear Miss M

Please don't......oh nevermind. If you can't see differences in disagreements with kids, they won't be very happy. You have to just let them settle their own disputes unless they gang up on each other as in 2 on 1. That's when you step in except in cases of major bodily harm.

:: Oh, and, uh, 'Chiko, weren't you the one who said you didn't like children?:: Benn

I sure thought she did.

J, you do realize, don't you, that the future Mrs. Morgan (got it right that time, MarkN!) is in all likelihood joking? I think you're taking her a bit too seriously.

---

Quote:

'Chiko, weren't you the one who said you didn't like children?

---

Why, Mark Morgan! Surprise, surprise, surprise!

I wonder why Mark never gets to drive his own car?

Because John, Paul, George and Ringo got there first, and told MJ, "Baby you can drive my car"????

Ducks, and runs, and manages to avoid most of the stuff thrown at him

ScottN, why would Mark share a car with the Beetles?

What is this humour?

That was probably meant as a joke, J. Please don't take it personally.

I can't take personally something I don't understand.

A joke's not funny when you have to explain it. I shall anyway.

Jwb52z.
Dts84d.

Anyone else miss the pattern?

Alas, I don't know why you people are talking about Morgan and driving. He said he has a purple car he never gets to dirve.

Whatever that means.

Since we're bringing the Beatles into this, shouldn't it be 28if?

I don't see any pattern except that they are both made up of letters and numbers arranged in the same way. Is that all there is, or is there more to the humor?

I have enjoyed following the whole Machiko and Morgan thing since its early beginnings. What a pity Mike deleted so many of the old boards. I hear Mark Morgan used to think the lovely Machiko was male?

Great. Morgan hasn't posted here since, what, March? And when he does break the silence, it's to chastise me. God, do I have a wonderful effect on people or what? Wonder how more people I can •••• off? Morgan, Captain Obvious, Mikey, Peter, Matt Pesti...

What about me?

You? How'd I •••• you off? Jeezus. I might as well leave at this rate.

No, you didn't. I thought you were listing all the people "still in line".

Oh? You want me to offend you?

::Jwb52z.
Dts84d.

Anyone else miss the pattern?:: My Dear Miss M

What?

Holy Mother Goddess of all. "The whole Machiko and Morgan thing since its early beginnings"? Dare I ask what that means?

And actually, Benn, Morgan was chastising J. Unless you don't think I should have kids either?

Oh, and Paddy, yes, Morgan has referred to me as male before. He tells me that it's his automatic reaction to seeing an intial and a last name. I get my revenge on him...still.

Okay, J, I didn't post with that name. But it's obvious to me, someone was implying that you have no sense of humour. And because of the name that you use here, said poster followed the pattern of letter-letter-letter-number-number-letter for their name as well. Perhaps implying that anyone who posts with that combination of characters is lacking in a sense of humour.

Unless said poster wants to come forward and speak?

Perhaps Morgan was speaking to J, but he quoted me. So naturally I assume that I am the intended target of his ire.

Did no one actually read beyond the first 6 characters of that poster's name?

Dts84d, a visitor from the same planet Jwb comes from

Morgan? Ire?

Ire? Morgan?

What rock did you crawl out from under, Benn?

While I'm thinking of it, forty what?

As Dts84d stated, he comes from the same planet that Jwb52z comes from. As do I. In fact, I am the leader of said planet. Our society values efficiency over all else - hence the names. We have little time for such concepts as humor or logic.

Jwb and Dts, you are creating efficiency problems by using valuable time to post messages on the Earth internet. I sentence you to two days compulsory rehab at the Nirvana village where you will be doppled into a worthless terran anteater. That is, if you can afford it at your credit.

"Did no one actually read beyond the first 6 characters of that poster's name?"

Did anyone care?

"What rock did you crawl out from under, Benn?" - Machiko

Am I to assume that you think of me as some form of reptilian or insectoid life form? I had no idea you disliked me that much, dear.

"While I'm thinking of it, forty what?" - Machiko again

Forty watt? You need a light bulb?

As for Morgan's ire. Hey I figured if he's breaking his silence for the first time in months, he must be influenced by some very strong emotions.

Well, now that He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named no longer posts on RM MarkM's got a perfectly good reason to post here again. Of course, he may have to fight MJ for the keyboard (even though it's his), unless she's willing to share it with him (even though it's his) so that they can both have messages on the same post. But I'll leave it up to them to fight about.

Okay, Benn, let me explain this very nicely.

Morgan was posting because he reads here via text browser only, and he didn't appreciate J's lecturing me on whether or not to have children. Because Morgan feels that if we have children, it is not J's business. Because J will not be involved in the process of either conceiving said child, or giving birth. Or even raising.

And since Mark obviously doesn't wish to see me any further, I shall no longer post here. Since this keyboard (and computer, too) belong to Morgan.

Wha-?! Which Mark? Morgan?! What the f--?!

In case you read this Machiko, I understand that Morgan was refering to J. I'm just saying that at first, I thought it was me.

Helluva post to wake up to.

"Did no one actually read beyond the first 6 characters of that poster's name?"

Did anyone care?
--Benn

Clearly someone did, as there was a discussion about it (but the discussion neglected to include anything beyond the first 6 characters, yet the stuff beyond said characters would have negated the need for a discussion).

Hey Patterson? Have you played Lords of Magic too?

The Future Triple M:
So, is the Eggplant Wizard officiating?

Your brother lives in Dallas. Does that mean Benn has a ally agaist you? Or is this one of the two male relatives your on good terms with?


He who shall not be named? Profit and Lace?

Of course, he may have to fight MJ for the keyboard (even though it's his), unless she's willing to share it with him (even though it's his)

MarkN, haven't you ever heard what happens in marriage? What's hers is hers and what's yours is hers.

MarkM and MJ, just kidding!

Anyone wonder if this whole marriage thing is just one of these Voices of Unreason/Puppet Ruling Council gags which has no basis in reality?

Just for Benn's peace of mind...I refer MarkN as just Mark. And Mark Morgan as just Morgan.

Thus, I said that since Mark(N) no longer wishes to see me, I should just leave, since the keyboard belongs to (Mark) Morgan.

Scott, I keep telling Morgan that. He doesn't listen.

And since Pesti obviously wants details, I'll start muttering quietly (and this is my favourite brother in Dallas, btw):
We're looking at the Spring of next year, in a park in southern Oregon. With a Reverend from the local Unitarian-Universalist church (what with us being interfaith). And one of my Sisters to do a reading (Charge of the Goddess). And less than fifty in attendance.

And that's all you're going to get.

"Did no one actually read beyond the first 6 characters of that poster's name?"

Did anyone care?
--Benn

Clearly someone did, as there was a discussion about it (but the discussion neglected to include anything beyond the first 6 characters,..."

I would take that to mean that nobody cared about what was said after the first characters. If anyone cared, they would have talked about it.

"Does that mean Benn has a ally agaist you [Machiko]?" - Matt Pesti

Why do I have need an ally against her, Matt? My own personal survival? Does this mean that she plotting against me and I need all the help I can get?

Me? I've got nothing against, 'Chiko. I love her. Not the same way Morgan does, mind you (he said as hastily as possible. No want to actually p.o. Morgan.)

"Thus, I said that since Mark(N) no longer wishes to see me...," - Machiko

So? Many of the rest of us still do.

"... I should just leave, since the keyboard belongs to (Mark)." - Machiko again

Oh. That's a better excuse.

MarkN, haven't you ever heard what happens in marriage? What's hers is hers and what's yours is hers.
Yeah, Scott. That's why I'm single.

Machiko, I never said I never wanted to see you on RM. Where'd you get that silly idea? Oh, I see. My August 07, 2001, 01:35 am post. Dearest, I was only kidding. Ya oughtta know by now not to take me seriously in something like that, but all the same I apologize for any misunderstanding. I love reading your messages; we all do, so please don't leave us, ok?

Spectre: Yeah, it crossed my mind too. You never can know what's up with the incomprehensable Overlord.

M. Jenkins: No webcam? Make sure the UU bought his DOD from a BBB dealer. And get a GE Webcam, with UL on the label. Ok. And Serve OJ. That was fun.

Benn: Your lucky Benn. If memory serves, her favorite brother is under ten. Now, go back to 90 degree weather.

Go back to 90° weather? In August? In Texas? Not 'til the next Ice Age, bro. Actually, it probably won't hit 90° here 'til late September. As the Spanish say, "Es mucho caliente."

Oh, MJ, thanks for putting my mind at ease. I was afraid something bad had happened 'twixt you and Morgan. Whew!

MarkN, haven't you ever heard what happens in marriage? What's hers is hers and what's yours is hers.

Hey! I resembl-- I mean resent that remark, Scott!

(Except where the TV and the remote control are concerned. If I'm allowed to watch MY favorite programs once a week, I consider myself lucky....)

And who's in control of the computer, Juli?

Okay, Pesti, let's get this cleared up. Chris is twenty, and lives in Arizona. Kenji is ten and lives in Arizona. Chuck (my older half brother that I don't know) is somewhere in his fifties (I think), and lives in Ohio.

I'm talking about my adopted brother, Nathan, who is nineteen (I think) and lives in Texas. In Dallas.

While I'm thinking of it...why is a webcam a necessity at a wedding, Pesti?

Oh, and I love Benn too. But not the same way I love Morgan, of course.

My Dear Miss M Some people like to video record their weddings and a webcam setup would be the next step, broadcasting your wedding on the net.

Wow that's a large family. Almost as large as some of my Catholic Theology teachers who don't use birth control.

Not large at all, Pesti.

My Dear Mr J, while Morgan and I have been entertaining the idea of a videographer, I am not nearly tacky enough to want to broadcast my wedding on the net.

And if Morgan wants to do that, I'll just have to slap him silly.

And who's in control of the computer, Juli?
ME! Mwahahaha. Except when my darling hubby has a pressing need to play "Minesweeper." Otherwise, he's content to use his cell phone for e-mail and limited internet functions.

"Oh, and I love Benn too. But not the same way I love Morgan, of course" - Machiko

|Sniffles. Blinks the tears from his eyes.|
Awww! But I'm so unworthy. |Sniff. Sniff.|

Hey! I wanna know who I get to feed to the lions!!!!

pouts, uncharacteristically.

My Dear Miss M I don't know whether you are at all into gushy displays of affection, but I always have this desire to give you a great big hug and a kiss on the forehead. If MarkM ever treats you less than the gorgous person you are, he'll have to answer to all of us on the board that care about you.

Hey, MJ, when I win the lottery here (and I will) I'll buy a the best vidcam and record your wedding day, do the editing and so on, all for free. Why, I'll even tape the wedding night! What do you say to that? Of course, there's the little matter of paying me not to put it on the Net, but we can negotiate a fair price.

Runs like hell, knowing full well what's coming...

I just want to say that that was NOT me on the front page--someone apparently decided to amuse himself in a sorry, sorry way.

Alright, Benn. Since you're so unworthy, I don't love you anymore.

Scott, you can feed Mark2 to the lions.

"Alright, Benn. Since you're so unworthy, I don't love you anymore." - Machiko Jenkins-Morgan

Boy. Talk about fickle...

Philosophically speaking, that would be fine.

Mark, old chap, would you mind sitting over here in the Opposition Party Bleachers^®?

Thanks ever so much...

Hey, Benn, buddy, you're the one who said you were unworthy.

I were you, I'd change that tune real fast. I only love worthy men.

Oh, and J, I'm supposed to pass this message along from Morgan. He says that even if the whole of Nitcentral chases him down, he's not going to give me up.

Which means I'm just stuck with him.

Great.

And Scott? Enjoy yourself there. And let everyone know how it turns out...

Am I the only one to find all this shameless sucking up to Machiko distasteful? There has not been a post of content in this thread for days but you all fill it with adolescent flirtations that would put a teenage chat room to shame. In fact, you people should all just meet in one and "cyber" away to your heart's content.

Welcome back, Peter.

Nice to know you haven't lost your touch.

Dressed in shredded clothing, near-fatal cuts covering 91% of his body, barely having made it out of the lions cage alive, life hanging by a thread...

MJ, please don't encourage him. You know what'll happen again.

Scott, I would ask that you examine the cages holding the lions for flaws.

Then send Mark back in.

Thank you.

Actually I just pop here now and then to see what is going on. I have no plans to post here regularly if Sax is moderator and the same applies to Wes and PM.

Ayup. So, on the rare occasions in which you do grace us with you presence, Peter, you intend on making inflammatory comments and basically p*ssing on everyone's fun?

I'll pass on that, thanks.

Was that YOU, Peter, posing all that junk on the front page? (I doubt it, but...)

Yeah, I've suspected Peter's been posting here anonymously. Pete, you should know by now what kinds of posts are made here. You don't like it, don't read it. Why should we change what we say, or go elsewhere for your benefit?

"Hey, Benn, buddy, you're the one who said you were unworthy.

I were you, I'd change that tune real fast. I only love worthy men." - Machiko Morgan-Jenkins

Let's see, if I say I am worthy, what happens? "It's too late"? "I don't believe you"? It's a no-win situation (but no Kobiyashi Maru.) Oh well, I still love you 'Chiko, even if you don't love me any more.

"Oh, and J, I'm supposed to pass this message along from Morgan. He says that even if the whole of Nitcentral chases him down, he's not going to give me up.

Which means I'm just stuck with him.

Great." - Machiko Jenkins-Morgan

Hey! That's your own damned fault. You're the one who got yourself into it. ;-T

And now, a special two-song dedication for Mr. MarkN - "Wondering Where the Lions Are" by Bruce Cockburn and of course, "In the jungle/The mighty jungle/The lion sleeps tonight."

A million smiley faces is not really my style, but as someone with a fast computer and modem I found it pretty funny.

And Machbennko, it had to be said.

:h, and J, I'm supposed to pass this message along from Morgan. He says that even if the whole of Nitcentral chases him down, he's not going to give me up.:: My Dear Miss M

That's the way it should be. BTW, what's your wedding ring look like? You do have one, right?

"Familiar Face," be ye bird or beast or devil, I find it rather sad that you consider banter among friends to be nothing more than adolescent flirtation. (Speaking as an adolescent, we're much less subtle.)

On the other hand...considering the goofy name that appeared, it could very well be Pesti...

Benn, if you said you were worthy, I'd have to start loving you again. Duh. Did you not read my post?

And J, why would I have a wedding ring? I'm not married.

Engagement ring??? I don't know if such a thing is traditional in Wiccan lore, though it (and a wedding band) seem to be near-universal among humans... as a pledge of troth. A gold band without end seems to have similar symbolism to all.

Wiccans have betrothal rings, yes.

At present, I am wearing Morgan's old wedding ring as a troth ring. We opted to buy a car instead.

And two new tires...and a new alternator...

But we've found a set we like.

And two new tires...and a new alternator...

But we've found a set we like.

Whitewalls, or steel belted radials?

Whatever brand they get I just hope it ain't Firestone or Bridgestone. Wouldn't want anything to happen to our beloved Machiko now, would we?

And please remember the rule, everyone: Don't Feed The Troll.

In fact, you people should all just meet in one and "cyber" away to your heart's content. - Peter

Could someone explain this sentence? I've seen the word "cyber" being used in simialr context but I have no idea what it means.

It's using an adjective like a verb.

That doesn't answer my question. I want to know what it means.

At present, I am wearing Morgan's old wedding ring as a troth ring. We opted to buy a car instead.

How romantic.

I've seen the word "cyber" being used in simialr context but I have no idea what it means.

Dear innocent boy, much like me a year ago. Padawan, go on MSN chat and find some chatroom that may include "teenagers".

Northern Ireland Chat

PeterC: Hi everyone.
ILoveToKill: wasssup dude
PeterC: I see the Peace Process is going badly. ;)

by which point you will have 20 private messages saying

18 Horny Stripper Wisconsin: hi there - let me svck your covk please? i need it bad. my father wont do it with me any more. i had three boys last week. i just left high school. my boobs are bigger than footballs . . . lets cyber
PeterC: Um, hello. I am afraid it doesn;t interest me at all.
18 Horny Stripper Wisconsin: why? you gay? come on you just wanna try it
PeterC: Not at all: just sane about what I do. Please leave me alone.
18 Horny Stripper Wisconsin: i am pulling down your pants and your hand is on my legs
PeterC: No, you are not! No, it is not! I only came here to discuss politics. F*** off.
18 Horny Stripper Wisconsin: you are out of luck tonight man
PeterC: Yes, but messing around with you won't change that.

Then you check the profile of the person and to no surprise at all find that "18 Horny Stripper Wisconsin" was really a 47 year old male from Utah.

I find the best cure is to give them a link from rotten.com That sure puts any thought of it out of their minds. (I strongly advise no one looks at such images themselves. They are truly grotesque, and it took me ages to get the only one I did see - a milder one - out of my mind. A friend nearly vomited at motorcycle.jpg, which is the worst apparently).

Lol. On the other hand, that was both gratuitous and waay too much information. Still, the idea of Peter being propositioned is hilarious! Sorry dude. Surely these chat rooms have names or titles or something to identify their content. At any rate, didn't you read the previous messages? If any? I'd imagine they'd've given you some idea of what to expect from the 'room. Might've saved yourself some discomfort.

By the way, Peter, since we do know who you are, you might as well drop the "Familiar face" tag, and post as yourself.

And MJ, I am worthy. OK? (Last time I do a "Wayne's World" reference around.)

That last sentence should end with the word "here". Does the "Cancel Post" button ever work? I tried to stop the post so I could correct it, but nooo!

By the way, the best way to understand chat room ettiquette is this.

That was interesting. And almost depressing.

Hey lighten up, dude. LOLLOLOL!!!111 It roxored! U n33d to l34rn l33t sp33k is 4ll.

I loved the Romeo and Juliet kewlspeak thing too! LOL j00 1337 h4x0R d00d5!!!!111111````

And Pete- "cyber"ing, in the way you describe, is not our way here. You should know that.

Well read the thread above. That is it exactly.

d00d5! That r0xx0r3D!

Strangely disturbing, wasn't it?

So, Padawan Observer, do you understand what it means to "cyber" now? It's basically the online equivalent of phone sex, but done instead in chatrooms or private rooms.

Both, Scott.

But I had the white walls turned in, 'cause it's too much hassle trying to keep them pristine. ;)

••••, why didn't I think of that explanation, Mark? That is a lot simpler.

::And J, why would I have a wedding ring? I'm not married.:: My Dear Miss M

Somehow I got the idea that you were ALREADY married. So, when's the handfasting? I know you technically have to have the year waiting period so I was just curious.

All right something's wrong because my latest post was removed. I'm sure I made it.

I saw this on a "Twilight Zone"--it means you're dead.

Who, me??

You're entering a land not of sight and of sound, but of flames.

I'm utterly confused. I know I posted further up that Morgan and I were tenatively planning for spring of next year. So how could we already be married, J?

And, far as I can tell, Morgan doesn't want a handfasting in the traditional Wiccan sense. He's already adamantly refused to jump the sword and besom.

He's compromised and let me add some Wiccan elements (and some other stuff too).

...why didn't I think of that explanation, Mark? That is a lot simpler.
Simple: Cuz you ain't me, FF. You are you and I am me and we are we, koo koo kachoo.

LOL! Wiccan marriages are not recognised in Britain, thankfully. This loony pagan girl in my politics class likes to whine about it.

Heh. What you're saying is that even if a recognised clergy of the state performed the wedding, that's just tough?

Man, am I glad I don't live in Britain. At least the only US requirement is that the clergy be recognised by the state to make it legal.

Oh, wait, I live in a country with a secular government...

So when do we get our invitations?

At least the only US requirement is that the clergy be recognised by the state to make it legal.

The ceremony also has to be witnessed by one or more people over the age of 18. Doesn't matter if they're US citizens or not, though. (At least, that's the rule in Oregon. No, you don't want to know how I know this.)

In Arkansas, the only witness has to be the justice of the peace or the minister.

Can you toss in the Klingon Club Ritual?

ROFL! That probably is a Wiccan ceremony.

Oh, you two are so funny. What a riot you are. Hold on. I fell to the floor in my laughter.

Whoops. My eyeballs just fell out of my head. I should stop rolling them, huh?

I like the Klingon Club Ritual. And it could happen, what do you think best men are really for?

And I thought you would like the idea of Morgan getting beaten with sticks :>

I do, anyway.

Peter.

And he's a very civil person, folks!

Hey, Peter, you best be staying away from Morgan with any sticks. You might be that kinky, but I assure you he isn't.

And no, Pesti. That idea isn't in my list of things to like in conjunction with Morgan. I'll keep it in mind, though.

Thanks ever so much.

Machiko --
My sister (who posted a while ago here as Ansh) wants to know what your wedding will be like.

Oh, and are you REALLY getting married? I mean, really? In reality?

o_O They aren't *that* weird a pair, Padawan. Of course they are. What I have wondered is when you two actually met.

They met at the Overlord Associates (nickname for indentured servants) Picnic.

Well, Paddy, since Morgan moved all of his two tons of junk into my apartment, and I'm looking at his back even as he sleeps (which I should be doing), and I've met his sister, his brother in law, his niece and his two nephews, AND his mother...and since I just vented big time about my work at him...and since I just reread the journal entry I wrote a couple hours after he proposed...offhand, I'd say yes. Really. In reality.

Pesti, we didn't meet at any picnic. We met at the airport. In Phoenix. When he came to visit, and I picked him up. And the answer to Peter's question is November 10, 2000.

Paddy, tell Ansh she can email me (ladycaly@hotmail.com) with her wedding questions. I refuse to discuss them in a public forum beyond what I have already.

Talk about delayed shyness! I didn't particularly care for the date, but I can't fathom why two people from this board would decide to meet in the first place. Why would ScottN arrange a meeting with MarkN or something?

Uh, unlike you, we don't hate other people? We actually like each other? Respect each other? Enjoy each other's company? Have an interest in each other? Would that not be obvious?

To see who's "N" is bigger ?

Well, I'd hate to make you feel inadequate, Scott. But FF, where'd you ever get the idea that Scott would arrange a meeting with me? We've never discussed it and even if we had I can't afford to travel anyway.

I think it was just an example.

Not that you would know of such things, Peter, but probably because friends like to be in the company of other friends.

Criminy.

Why am I wasting my time here? It's a beautiful day outside, and the fiance that I still amazingly have is going to the coast with me.

(Amazingly in that I worked all closing shifts this past week, and he worked all opening, and it was debatable on whether the other still existed.)

Yes, but you weren't friends at that time were you?

Mark, I wouldn't want you to feel "N"-adequate either...

Don't worry, Scott, I wouldn't. Nor would I really be embarassed about you feeling "N"-adequate if we ever met in person, but at least I'd have the good sense not to show it. (Good call on your pun, too!)

Well, Peter, I can assure you that Morgan and I sure were not enemies at that time.

Thanks ever so much.

Hmmm well had you talked on the phone? I just don't really consider that I know anyone I have met only online.

Peter.

Is that why I bought all of those phone cards? I just couldn't remember...

Give us some credit, Peter. Jeeze.

Phone cards? I don't understand.

Peter.

::Phone cards? I don't understand.::

You just knew he was going to say that, didn't you? Prepaid phone cards, Peter.

Yes, but what about them?

Peter.

That's what they used to call each other. Duh!

So Machiko bought lots of phone cards to call Morgan?

Peter.

Except when he used his long distance to call me...NOW you're getting there.

My Dear Miss M I don't know whether you are at all into gushy displays of affection, but I always have this desire to give you a great big hug and a kiss on the forehead. - Jwb52z

Is this the same Jwb who said that Fantasizing was a sin?

Looks like *he* may be the clone we have in our midst.

If those are his only fantasies I really wouldn't worry.

Peter.

No. If his fantasies are anywhere nearly like mine, he's in trouble. Deep, deep trouble.

Please explain in further detail.

Peter.

Lol! Not on these boards, pal! No way! Wouldn't make past the censorware! I have no desire to kicked out of Nitcentral because of my private fantasies.

The real question, gentlemen, is whether Benn's private fantasies involve me, as I seem to be reading into that, or if he's speaking of fantasizing on a general level.

I'm just really tired, and could be reading more into Benn's post than he intended.

On the other hand, since this IS Benn Allen.......

::Is this the same Jwb who said that Fantasizing was a sin?:: Padawan Observer

No, it was the real me that time Padawan. I said LUSTING was wrong. Lusting is not all fantasies. A fantasy is like a dream except you are awake.

If it puts your mind at rest, MJ, you are reading more into my post than I meant. At the risk of insulting you, you do not, nor ever have figured into my fantasies. Sorry.

--::Is this the same Jwb who said that Fantasizing was a sin?:: Padawan Observer

No, it was the real me that time Padawan. I said LUSTING was wrong. Lusting is not all fantasies. A fantasy is like a dream except you are awake. --

Didn't you say fantasising about another person was wrong? And you were fantasising about MJ... Hey, do you know what she looks like??

Fantasizing about something happening is not necessarily wrong. Fantasizing in a sexual way is wrong because it is lusting.

Hey! It just occured to me... What's this "(o)n the other hand, since this IS Benn Allen......." crack supposed to mean, Mrs. Morgan? Is that an insult? Are you making some sort of insinuation about me?

Well, if I were running on more than three hours of sleep, I could prolly come up with some smart comment to make Benn think that I'm mad at him too.

But I'm just too darn tired.

New topic: Premarital sexual relations - Christian view.

Just why did God say that sex before marriage is wrong? What reason was given? Was it ever explained why, if two people love each other but did not want to marry (right away?), they still could not lie together?

The answer "Because it's in the Bible as wrong" or any variation thereof is unacceptable. That's the same as a parent saying "Because I said so."

And now...I NEED my sleep.

My Dear Miss M

I know you think it is unacceptable, so there is no real way to explain it to you if you can't just do something because you are told to do it. Many Christians believe that questioning God, even when no reason is present, is not right. We are not to presume a reason why unless it is given. The only answer is one you don't like.

Machiko, quite obviously because sex is something sacred and unique, and should be preserved until two people are truly committed to one another. This avoids the problem of children conceived by a couple who change their minds, and the inevitable jealousies that would be caused by a woman who broke of her engagement to a man with whom she had fornicated, and then found another man who naturally preferred her to himself. Plus "it makes the Wedding night a few hundreds times more fun." (Exodus 18:45)

Peter.

I agree with Peter. Marriage indicates the people have thought it through and are committed to spending a lifetime together. This would show they will be together to raise the children into adulthood. If they are just living together, or not even that, there's no formal commitment. I bring up the raising of children because that's the main result of sex. I think God wants to make sure the children are planned and well cared for by two parents, so He wants couples to make that formal commitment to each other.

Of course, that doesn't explain how the Earth got populated in the first place. There weren't a whole lotta people in the beginning, you know?

Side note - today's my last day at the job from you-know-where. I start school on Monday! Going to study veterinary medicine. Wish me luck!

Plus "it makes the Wedding night a few hundreds times more fun." (Exodus 18:45) [] Peter

?????????????

Lord Peter, if you are going to just make up Bible verses (even if you add the smiley), it will weaken your argument from the authority of the Bible in other contexts. Do you really want to throw away all your posts for the sake of one moment of whimsey?

Sexual relations before marriage - I have no problem with, as long as the people involved have a proper loving relationship. It's sexual relations before maturity which disturbs me, in this time when 13-year old virgins are practically unheard of.

OK, I'm exaggerating maybe a little. But it's better than understating!

Tom, I think everyone should know I was joking. It was just a response to Machiko asking where God gave reasons for this. I thought it kind of funny to imagine a verse like that there.

Peter.

Gee... I thought you thought the Bible was the literal word. And you make up verses? You SINNER! YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!!!

Peter-

Anonymous just made my point. Even though he, and everyone else knew that you were joking, he took that fact to "prove" that "even you" aren't serious about what the Bible clearly teaches. That gives him your permission to ignore anything that you claim is taught in the Bible.

If you think I am interested in what some moron, who is clearly looking for the even the feeblest of excuses to attack me, has to say, you are mistaken.

Peter.

The problem is, he is only the tip of the iceberg. Anyone who is already inclined to consider you a fanatic, or a hypocrite, oreven just an annoyance will now have the same ready-made excuse. True the more honest ones will recognize that everyone lets their sense of humor (or in your case your sense of humour) get out of hand occasionally, but with so many here already put off by other aspects of your normal attitude, do you really want to provide more excuses to having your viewpoint ignored here? (And if you truly don't care whether they listen or not, why even go to all the trouble of posting?)

So then, Peter and Margie and J, which is more stable, in thine eyes?

A married couple, who waited until the wedding night, with one child, who scream at and abuse each other, but refuse to divorce because of the whole "formal relationship; raising child; is immoral" view --

OR

A never married couple living together with one child, who are great friends and are willing to communicate civilly?

Me personally, I'd rather deal with or be in the second relationship. Thanks...

Darling Mr Allen, I'm going to take the surname of Jenkins-Morgan. No, that was not an insult (merely an observation). And yes, that was an insinuation about you.

And no, I won't tell you what I meant. So neener...

I can take a few wild guesses about what you meant, though. 'Sides, I'm too worried about your insinuations. They're meaningless if they're that obscure.

A married couple, who waited until the wedding night, with one child, who scream at and abuse each other, but refuse to divorce because of the whole "formal relationship; raising child; is immoral" view --

OR

A never married couple living together with one child, who are great friends and are willing to communicate civilly? Machiko

Not all married couples abuse and hate each other, and not all common-law couples are great friends that communicate civilly. So I'll take option #3, the couple that waited until the wedding night and that love and respect each other till the end of their days.

Those of us advocating marriage never claimed that the fact that people marry, by itself, is what makes people stable. Some people comply with one commandment while blatantly disregarding another. If I had to "deal with" the couples of your scenario #1 or #2, yes, I'd rather be around the people in #2, but I still think they should be married. And just because #1 is married doesn't mean they're honoring or keeping sacred that marriage, so they're not without sin themselves.

And to be fair, while I disapprove of people having sex without getting married, I think it's far worse when people do it when they belong to a religion that teaches it's wrong.

One advantage I can see (with my LDS point-of-view ) to the whole Maiden-Married surname thing (Jenkins-Morgan in your case) is that it might make genaeology a tad easier. Too bad no one had that custom hundreds of years ago.

Matt-
Many Spanish-speaking cultures do provide both parents' paternal surnames in the child's surname. And at least surnames have been stable for the last 100 to 500 years in many parts of the world. When the surname used to change with every generation (Nels Oleson fathered Hans Nelson, who fathered Olaf Hanson....) or when there was no surname at all, the records are much more confusing.

In Italy, the children take the father's name, but the wife/mother retains her maiden name. My godmother, Maria, has her maiden name, but my cousins Mariangela and Carmen have my godfather's surname.

I did know about that Spanish custom, actually, but that's a little different (though it is a good naming system, in my opinion). Still, I guess my thinking was a bit English-centric. But since none of my ancestors for the past several centuries were Spanish-speaking, the Spanish customs don't help me much. And speaking of the Scandinavian tradition of changing surnames, that system may be old, but it's had a nice long run into the near present. I have a great-great-grandfather named Sven Peterson whose father was Peter Larson. That wasn't very long ago.

The Italian system sounds interesting, LN. Does anyone's name change at all to show their marital relation? Like in Spanish where the ladies add "de Fulano (of So-and-so )"?

A married couple, who waited until the wedding night, with one child, who scream at and abuse each other, but refuse to divorce because of the whole "formal relationship; raising child; is immoral" view --

OR

A never married couple living together with one child, who are great friends and are willing to communicate civilly?

A defence of something on the basis that things could be worse makes no sense. You can't defend a rapist on the grounds that he isn't a murderer.

Peter.

::A married couple, who waited until the wedding night, with one child, who scream at and abuse each other, but refuse to divorce because of the whole "formal relationship; raising child; is immoral" view --

OR

A never married couple living together with one child, who are great friends and are willing to communicate civilly?:: My Dear Miss M

While still unpleasant, the first is more proper and is capable of getting better with help.

:: One advantage I can see (with my LDS point-of-view ) to the whole Maiden-Married surname thing (Jenkins-Morgan in your case) is that it might make genaeology a tad easier. Too bad no one had that custom hundreds of years ago.:: Matt Duke

In Spanish-speaking countries the names are always hyphenated. The names of both parents are needed with the mothers maiden name first and the father's name second.

No, they're not always hyphenated.

Mine isn't.

Thank you for playing, J.

When Crisa and I were discussing her pending nuptials to her gringo fiance, she commented on Mexican naming. The names aren't hyphenated, she tells me, but both are used. So Maria Garcia Ruiz could go by that name, or she could be Maria G. Ruiz, or she could even be Maria Garcia R.

I'm going to ignore Peter's comment, 'cause it just makes no sense to me.

And I'm going with my hyphenated surname because I'm an independent woman of the millenium, and I'll take whatever name I darn well want. That, and I couldn't be MJ if my initials were MMM.

Oh, and my name (if I were living in a Spanish speaking country) would be M. Machiko Haraguchi Jenkins. Add Morgan to the end for postnuptial.

Yuck.

Thanks to those who gave civil and full answers to the whole prenuptial sex thing. I disagree, of course, but it's nice to hear other POVs.

Tidbit of trivia - in feudal Japan, it was a common practice among the aristocracy for the husband to visit the bed of his bride until she gave birth before their marriage was recognised.

oh! And I also forgot that my father's surname comes first, then my mother's.

I agree with Matt Duke on the scenarios that Machiko provided. If it were a choice only between #1 & #2, I's choose #2, but hope they'd formalize things, even if it's just a civil ceremony. One reason other than religion being that if one partner dies, benefits for the surviving partner would be much harder to get if there's nothing saying they were related. I've seen cases where the survivor ends up with almost nothing because they weren't married.
There's good and bad people who are married, and who are living together. Some marriages are just for appearances, but some are truly based on love and commitment. Some non-marriage living situations are just for convenience, and some are based on love. It does go both ways, but I'd rather see the people married.

Matthew Banks Duke: The Italian system sounds interesting, LN. Does anyone's name change at all to show their marital relation? Like in Spanish where the ladies add "de Fulano (of So-and-so )"?

Luigi Novi: I asked my father this, and he clarified for me:

My aunt Maria did take my godfather's name, Maglione. It turns out that the custom I spoke of whereby women do not take their husbands' surname is a recent one (my godparents have been married for about 30 years), and even then is not partaken by the entire population.

As for your question, Matthew, my father said that some women can write their name, for example,

"Maria Novi in Maglione"

This is just a hypothetical example, and I don't think my zia Maria does this.

Could anyone explain why no-one is answering my posts?

I'm going to ignore Peter's comment, 'cause it just makes no sense to me.

Quite simply that just because there is something worse than an unmarried loving couple with a child doesn't in any way change the fact that marriage is the best way.

Peter.

No insult on my part (anyway) is intended, Padawan. I just don't have any comments to make. Sorry, kid.

If it will make you feel better, Padawan...

Sexual relations before marriage - I have no problem with, as long as the people involved have a proper loving relationship. It's sexual relations before maturity which disturbs me, in this time when 13-year old virgins are practically unheard of. Padawan

I may have just thought of a good non-religious reason for teaching kids to wait until marriage to have sex. If you think about it, what are the options when it comes to teaching kids? You can tell them it's proper to wait until marriage, or you can tell them to wait until they're in a solid, loving relationship. I suppose another option would be to tell them to go nuts, but that doesn't strike me as being responsible parenting , so I'll stick with the first two.

Now, even if many of us disagree on whether sex before marriage is right or wrong, I think we can agree that it takes a great deal of maturity, and not just physical maturity. I think we can also agree that marriage requires a great deal of maturity. If kids associate sex with marriage, I think they can better understand the responsibility and maturity that sex requires. If a person knows he or she is not ready for the responsibility of marriage, he or she should also realize that sex is beyond their maturity level (keeping in mind that many people, because they're so keen on sex, become parents before they're ready, and often end up raising kids alone.)

Now, if kids are taught to wait until they're in love to have sex, I think that leads to more problems. Some teenagers might actually have good judgment, and might even understand how immature they really are, and so they wait until they are mature to have sex. Most others, I say, don't get it, though. Teenagers more often than not, in my opinion, don't have the best judgment. How often have many of us, as teenagers, thought we were in love, when we really weren't? How often have hormones taken over our higher brain functions?

Even though I don't approve of sex outside of marriage, I still would prefer that those who insist on doing it don't do it flippantly. Maybe half or more of all marriages end in divorce, but can anyone show me figures stating what percentage of non-marital relationships stay together happily? I seriously doubt it's even close to half. And that makes for more single parents and broken homes than divorce ever caused.

If teenagers need objective rules like curfews and the such, doesn't it stand to reason that when it comes to something as serious as sex, they have an objective standard like "wait until you're married", rather than something as ambiguous as "wait until you're in love"?

For the record, the vast majority of people I know were virgins at 13. But then, you were exagerating.

::That, and I couldn't be MJ if my initials were MMM.:: My Dear Miss M

See what I meant?

Matt Duke, I think your post shows good reasoning.

Personally, though, I don't think that's exactly the way I will handle my kids' sex education. In a practical sense, I'm actually glad I had sex before I was married. But I'm also glad I waited until I was out of school. So I would amend your statement to say, "Wait until you're 18, and use at least TWO kinds of birth control until you are married."

Apples and oranges, Peter.

No, J, I'm afraid I don't.

I agree with Juli and Matt. No more to be said.