Ah, the Amish. One of the many fun things living between the Ohio River Valley.

I really admire the Amish for sticking by their beliefs the way they do. It must be difficult at times.

I greatly admire the Amish as well, but I'm not really sure I understand why they have their own board separate from Protestant Christianity. Their basic theology is well within Protestant norms, and, in fact there are related sects covering the spectrum from "mainstream" modern Protestantism to their "extreme" social conservatism. The fact that they justify their lifestyle as additional commandments from God through the Bible and through tradition. does not set apart their religious viewpoint enough to justify a separate board. You don't have a board for the Hasidim separate from the Jewish Faith board.

That's because the Hasidim don't make cheese and quilts, and have Weird Al songs about them. Actually, all Amish are Mennonites, so you could merge the two boards.

That's because the Hasidim don't make cheese and quilts, and have Weird Al songs about them.

Obviously, you've never heard "Pretty Fly for a Rabbi".

The Mennonites are a sort of an offshoot of the Amish, thus the two separate boards. The Mennonites are basically the Amish living within civilization rather than outside of it, in that they drive cars, shop at the same stores (I know, cuz lots of them shop at the Target I work at), use electricity, eat at fast food and other restaurants, attend fairs, watch TVs, and so on and so forth. Now, I don't pretend to be an expert on them by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just going by what I've seen and heard from the ones I've talked to about their religion. The other day a Mennonite woman of around 40ish came to my lane and I asked her about how or if they celebrate Christmas and she said that they don't do presents and such but they celebrate it as the birth of Christ, without the trees or all of the commercialism involved, like it originally was. Yesterday a very sweet and pretty, young Mennonite woman, came thru my lane. Just one pleasant smile from her and my heart melted, as it tends to do with any pretty woman. *sigh*

Awwwwwwww. How Cute.
I remember going down rt 32 in Ohio through Amish country and about splattering some horse and buggy drivin amlet. A very religious experience at 80mph.
I missed him of course. i just wanted to point that out. As well as speed can be a dangerous thing so stay out of my way.

Anon, I deleted your previous post only because this was a double post with the second paragraph added to it. MarkN

I have a pen pal who's Mennonite. Some of the Mennonites are almost as... "strict" as the Amish, but others are indistinguishable from the rest of us in "normal" society. It depends on the individual congregation. It's the same, to a lesser degree, with the Amish. Some congregations are more liberal than others in the allowed activities, clothing, etc. I've been asking my pen pal a lot of questions lately about her religion. She's very open to answering them all. (As some here know, I ask a LOT of questions sometimes!)

Of the ones I've seen locally the women all wear summer dresses, even in the winters, and those hair coverings, which one Mennonite woman told me was because the Bible says women should cover their hair, or something to that effect. I forget exactly how she said it. Ok, but where does it say that women should wear summer dresses all year round? I've noticed the men look somewhat Amish, at least as far as the full beard/mustache thing goes, and they usually wear (from what I've seen) jeans and dress shirts, but not fancy ones. Just normal checkered ones usually, or some that look like Western wear.

No problem MarkN. I would'nt have made the double post if my brain didn't kick back into gear a few seconds after I hit the post button. That whole better late than never thing I guess. Speaking of never, Where did everybody go? Things are getting quiet around here. Too quiet.
PS: I understand the caution about deleting posts. That whole situation got a bit ugly. But I'm used to being deleted, folded, spindled and mutilated (anyone who gets that reference is either a computer geek or an old fogie :-) )

Thanks for being so understanding, Anon 3313. Quite a few of us have had problems with double posting at one time or another. I know I have, but with me it was due to some problem with the server or Discus or something not posting the first time so I'd try again, only to notice that the message did get posted.

And yes, I do want to be cautious about deleting posts before doing so. There's one message I'm seriously contemplating removing and I'll go over it again to determine if in fact it warrants removal.

Gee, let me guess which one... It wouldn't be over in the discussions of Wicca, would it?

Verbal Venn Diagrams

All Amish are Mennonites

Some Mennonites are Amish

Not all Mennonites are Almish.

All Mennonites are Anabaptists

Some Anabaptists are Mennonites.

In other words, the Old Order Amish are a sect of Mennonites.

Gee, Scott, good guess.

I don't know if anyone is still interested in this topic, but... As a Mennonite, I'd like to get my word in. The Amish broke off from the Mennonites in 1699 because they felt the Mennonites were getting too progressive.

Someone mentioned it must be difficult to be Amish these days. That is true! More and more Amish are selling their farms (because of the economy) and turning to other employment: woodworking, cleaning houses, working in stores, etc. The worry is that the young folks will be influenced by working with the "English" (as they call the rest of us), and may leave the Amish church.

MarkN must live in an area with a lot of Conservative Mennonites. My congregation has a Christmas tree in the sanctuary every year. We exchange presents, the whole bit. We do emphasize the reason we are celebrating, however.

I hope I cleared a few things up.

I'm a little confused, I was under the impression that Mennonites generally avoided technology (i.e. computers and the internet).

Thanks for clearing up something for me, rsbare. I thought the Mennonites were an offshoot of the Amish (as you can see by an above post of mine), not the other way around. And you're right, there are many Mennonites who live fairly close by, like maybe within a half hour or so from me. I've only seen one of their churches, and a somewhat small one at that, IIRC, but it's been some years. Now, could you please further explain why the women wear the same type of dresses and hair whatchamacallits and what those things are called? Last week a family came to my lane (I'm a cashier) and I asked them out of curiosity if someone from outside their religion could convert or was it more closed like the Amish are, and they said that anyone could join if they wished. I almost asked them if they could marry outside their religion but didn't so I'll ask you if it's possible or would that person be excommunicated, or whatever term the Mennonites use?

Charles, as I've also said in the same above post I work at Target and many Mennonites shop there all the time, so they obviously have no problem with modern conveniences.

One of my penpals is a Mennonite, & she mentioned that her father was a Methodist, so I'm guessing that they can marry outside their denomination. Either that, or he converted. There are differences in the congregations of both the Mennonites and the Amish. The different congregations range from strict to relaxed in following the customs.
(I've always been fascinated by the Amish culture, so I've tried to learn about it.)

At my church (which is Mennonite), we have former Presbyterians, Lutherans, Episcopals, Church of the Brethren, Catholics, Amish, Quakers, and possibly others. My brother and sister both married people who did not grow up Mennonite. As you can see, you can convert to Mennonite.

As for people leaving the Mennonite faith, you are free to do that and not be excommunicated. The Amish, on the other hand, do excommunicate people who leave. But the severity of this shunning (as it is also called) depends on the community. Some say no visits, others visit, but no meals together, and so on. I'm afraid I'm creating more questions than answering them.

MarkN, you asked about what the women wear on their heads. It is called a covering. They wear it because in the Bible it says that women should keep their heads covered. (Again, that varies among Mennonite groups. No one at my church wears a covering, but my grandma does.) The Amish women wear the same type of dress pattern to keep their lives simple. Some Amish groups ban the use of buttons on their clothes. They use pins or hooks and eyes instead. Again, to keep things simple.

I just read in our Mennonite newspaper that the counties in the U.S. with the largest populations of Amish are Holmes Co, Ohio, and LaGrange Co., IN. There are other major groups in Illinois, Kansas, Iowa, and Pennsylvania.

Thanks, RS. I never really thought of it but someone at work told me that they make their own dresses. I just assumed that they bought them somewhere. But now I must ask why do they still have to wear them even in the Winter when it can get to freezing or below? No offense, but that's just ridiculous, and cruel. As for mustaches, a guy I talked to a couple weeks ago who came to my lane with his wife said they wear them cuz they were put there by God. I guess it's ok to shave them but perhaps they prefer not to, in devotion to God. Anyway, he explained to me about the men wearing mustaches when I sort of joked that I might not be a good Mennonite cuz I can't grow decent facial hair, but if anyone can join then I guess it's not a terribly big concern, right?

I seem to remember something about mustaches being banned because it looks too military??

I hope some of you caught the show Oprah did about "seeing inside worlds usually hidden from the general public." The Amish were the first group shown. Due to the Amish belief that you can only baptize adults who have learned to be able to make the choice to serve God, there's a little kind of right of passage that Amish have when they turn 16. From the 16th birthday on until about 21, if I understood right, they are freed from the usual restrictions tehy have had in life and are allowed to go out into the world of the "English" that they call the "Devil's Playground." While they're out they can literally do anything they want without being stopped. Almost all do go back eventually to the Amish church eventually. It's really mouth droppingly shocking seeing Amish kids go from these plain little innocent people to sleeping around and drinking and doing drugs. If there is anyone here that is Amish, I'd LOVE to hear aboiut this practice directly. Also about the practice that courting people are allowed to sleep in the same room before their marrage and they're left all alone!

I caught the end of that episode, Jwb, at work on a break. The TV was on that channel and I asked the others in the room what the subject was about and was very surprised that they said the same thing you just did about Amish kids 16-21 (and yes, at my age 21yo's are kids, though I never thought of myself at that age). There were two cute girls on her show talking about it.

BTW, everyone: today's my birthday!!! I prefer skads of cash in lieu of presents, please. Thank you.

Of course, the interesting question for me is: does it work? I mean, the parents who live all the time in the world of the "english" probably know how hard it is to keep your kids doing crazy things during a certain time. Just forbidding sth. won't work if the kids are determined to be rebellious. Sounds as if the kids need to get it out of their system and then can evaluate with a calm mind the pros and cons of the morals they have been taught since childhood.

On the other hand, the kids probably are badly prepared for this world, if they have lived in a closed community with a very different culture all their life (sounds a little bit like culture-shock). Kids who have grown up directly in "the devils playground" without propaganda may be better at evaluating dangers and thereby avoiding them.

Mr MarkN? We have a delivery for you:

Hippo
Birdie
Two Ewes

ScottN,

I don't get it. Do Hippos travel herds called "skads" or "cash" (you know like it not being a school of whales but a pod or it is not a flock of crows but a murder.)?

BTW, Happy (or Hippo-y) birthday MarkN.

Thanks, Scott, but I'm afraid you'll have to take them back, since we can't have pets here in my apartment complex. I have an apartment complex, which comes as a result from living in apartments for way too long (bad pun most definitely intended). BTW, when I was a kid we raised sheep and my brother and I were in 4-H, even entering some in the local fair.

And thank you, too, Berry.

Constanze, Amish people don't live with "the English." They live in communities all by themselves.

Jwb52z,

no, I meant non-amish parents who live in the "english" world compared to amish parents who live in their closed communities. Sorry if I wasn'T clear enough.

Hippo birdie two ewes! I thought I was the only person on the planet who used that line! (Don't forget "Hippo birdie deer ewe," & "And many hippo returns.") Anyway, Happy b-day MarkN!

Amish live near me, not in a segregated community. They interact with the non-Amish daily, and use some modern conveniences (power tools for construction being a major one). Obviously, they are a less 'strict' branch.

I grew up in western PA and saw my fair share of Amish, although we were told to avoid them as in not staring at them). I find it odd that a group of people would choose a certain time in history (1699 for the Amish) and stop all progression.

What would it be like in 300 years if a group of people today were to stagnate their social growth today? "I ain't gonna get in one of those flying contraptions - I'll stick to my 1999-style Ford Escort. For that matter, you couldn't get me to put on those space suit... plain ol' Levi's for me! Or even "Force field? No way! I'll use a zipper on my pants, thank you."

I don't think that religion should control whether or not we use technology.

Also...
"If there is anyone here that is Amish, I'd LOVE to hear aboiut this practice directly." Jwb52z

If there IS anyone reading this who is Amish, I'd say that they aren't a very practising Amish.

Keng, show me where I said that please.

Nevermind, I found it. You didn't understand what I was talking about. I was talking about those who were in the "run wild period" that Amish children are given between 16 and about 21. That's what the conversation was about at the time.