Kosher Meat

Nitcentral's Bulletin Brash Reflections: Religious Musings: Specific Debate Topics: Morality Debates: Kosher Meat
Blue berry suggested this topic:

I heard what may be a good board idea on NPR. It seems many EU countries are banning Kosher foods on animal cruelty grounds. (The animals must be slaughtered in special ways that I don't know about because I'm not Jewish.)

That seems thin cover for anti-semitism when one considers all the Spanish throw a goat from the tower festivals. Anti-semitism in Europe. Anti-semitism in the union that includes ex-Nazi states. (I include France unless you think they were all in the resistance.:))


I Responded:

I'd not heard that. It is an interesting topic, and one that can raise intellegent discussion. I can already think of two directions I'd like to take the response. I also can see why you might be concerned about the flames potential, what with both anti-Semitism and PETA hot-buttons sitting out there ready to be be abused.

I'm going to risk opening the topic.


So here it is. I'm trusting you to keep the conversation on a civil level. Thank you.
By TomM (Tom_M) on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 3:05 pm:

I agree that it seems strange to ban kosher meat on cruelty grounds. From what I understand, the requirements of slaughtering Kosher animals requires that the animal be cleanly and quickly killed, which seems much kinder than some of the modern butchery techniques. The draining of the blood occurs afterward. The methods used to produce veal and Paté de Fois Gras are much more cruel, and as Blue says, sports involving animals are crueler yet.


By ScottN on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 3:54 pm:

IMHO, it's just a cover for Euro antisemitism.

TomM is correct on the requirements. Kira could post more, but I'm sure it's after sundown in NYC, so Yom Kippur has started. You could ask her in a couple of days (best bet is Thursday or later).


By Blue Berry on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 4:50 pm:

Fair warning: hot buttons galore here from both the anti-semite view and PETA. If anyone offends you, remember they have a weak brain and don't dignify them with a response (no matter how much fun that would be:)).


By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 5:28 pm:

ScottN: Kira could post more, but I'm sure it's after sundown in NYC, so Yom Kippur has started.
Luigi Novi: Kira Sharp? I thought she lived in the UK. I also didn't know she was Jewish. Or is this a different Kira?


By Electron on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 7:29 pm:

I don't know if there is a ban on kosher meat. The only such meat problem that I've heard of recently is with the Muslim way of slaughtering animals (letting them bleed out?) that doesn't work well with animal protection. But at least in Germany this is IIRC currently allowed because of religious freedom. I am no expert on this area and might be completely wrong.


By TomM (Tom_M) on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 8:33 pm:

Some countries include halal meat (the muslim equivalent of kosher) since the method is similar and to focus only on the one and allow the other would only point out that the "humane treatment issue is merely camoflage.

Here are a few interesting web articles I found about Sh'chitah (Kosher slaughtering):

First
Second
Third

And some news articles about the ban:

First
Second
Third
Fourth


By constanze on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 2:22 am:

I don't know the details either, but with the muslim population much bigger in germany (almost 4 million people from turkey, if we assume they are all more or less moslems) than practising jews, the debate has been reopened several times, with the arguments raised by sincerely concerned animal rights acitivists being grabbed and misused by right-wingers who don't like foreigners with non-christian religion or different culture, so the debate is hot. But it soon dies down from the main media, since there isn't much interest for the main public.

AAIK, too, kosher butchering is still allowed in germany, not because of religious freedom, but because the courts aren't convinced by the arguments from the animal right acitivists that it is more cruel than normal butchering. (I've read both arguments brought forth very sincerely - that kosher butchering is less painful for the animal, since it looses conciousness immediatelay, and that its more painful, since it will feel the bleeding all the time. So I don't know myself where the truth lies).

And sometimes I get sick of some people/groups using the anti- whatever to accuse the europeans without looking deeper into it. Yes, we have problems, and right-wingers, and anti-semitists, but we try hard to keep it in check, and not everything is motivated by this. (Most germans have overcome anti-semitism and have now a problem with latent anti-foreigner, esp. anti-turkish, feeling.)

And AAIK the moslem method of slaughtering would be the same as the jewish one, since mohammed used the jewish bible for reference.


By ScottN on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 9:41 pm:

constanze is correct, AFAIK. Perhaps Sven could confirm? Glatt Kosher and Halal butchering are very similar.


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