I'd like to address the issue of Christianity and UFOlogy. To those who haven't noticed, John Weldon, John Ankerberg, Hank Haanegraaf and others have been claiming that UFOs are illusions projected into people's minds by demons - so that if you see a UFO, it's NOT because of light reflecting off of "something" onto your retina, but because demons are projecting an illusion into the image-processing part of your brain. They have also been claiming that demons have been visibly appearing to people, and that the demons have been pretending to be aliens from another planet.

Back in 1974, John Weldon started all of this with a documentary-paperback that he wrote, making these claims. Now, the so-called "Christian Research Institute" says that Mr. Weldon's advanced degree in "Comparative Religions" makes him qualified to write and speak about the topic of UFOs. Go to any Christian bookstore, and see what you can find about this topic. See what anyone on Christian radio says about this topic.

The late Dr. (of Astronomy) J. Allen Hynek was a college professor of Astronomy when the U.S. Government asked him to help with their investigation of UFOs. The late Major Donald Keyhoe was a USMC aviator before he began investigating UFOs. Kevin Randle was a Captain in the USAF, doing Intelligence work, and Edward J. Ruppelt was also a commissioned officer in the USAF, when they started investigating UFOs. Now, who do YOU say knows what they're talking about?

Occam's Razor would imply the non-supernatural.

Explanation 1: Demons did it.
Explanation 2: Aliens did it
Explanation 3: Natural phenomena, misinterpreted.

Pick one based on Occam.

In the old days, people attributed unexplainable things to demons because their world view didn't comprehend the vastness of the universe. In modern times, as human understanding and awareness grew, unexplainable things got attributed to aliens. Basically, it's the same idea, updated.
Well now, you can have both! I guess what goes around comes around. Sad, really.

Oh, ScottN, this should come as no surprise: I'll take option #3. Do I win those Thin Mints again?

Now, who do YOU say knows what they're talking about? -Mike Brill

Well, it depends. If the UFOs are demons manifesting themselves, whether through the image center of your brain, or just showing up in front of you, then John Weldon would be the more knowledgeable expert.
If, on the other hand, the UFOs are space aliens, then Hyneck, Keyhoe, Randle, and Ruppelt would certainly be the authoritative experts.
It’s fairly obvious that you already have a strong opinion, from the tone of your post right down to the phrasing (The so-called “Christian Research Institute.”) So is there any point to this topic other than to run down John Weldon?
As for me, while I’m not quite sure what UFOs really are (I’ve heard compelling arguments and evidence from both sides), but I would tend to suspect the majority, if not the entirety of UFOs are 'option #3s' as well.
BTW, it is always important to remember that these are indeed UFOs… UNIDENTIFIED Flying Objects. It's kind of silly to ask about the most qualified expert on something that isn't even known, y'know? So for the moment, who can really know for sure? (Perhaps your pro-space ring-tailed baboon?) :-)

Zarm:

A little sarcasm and heated debate are more acceptable here than in other parts of NitCentral, but there are limits. You are not at those limits, much less at the point of Ad Hominem and Flaming, but sometimes it is easy to cross the line without realizing it. Consider this friendly advice rather than "a warning." Try to watch yourself if you continue this debate

Mike:

While Weldon takes an unorthodox approach that is of interest to this board, some of your phrasing can be taken as a challenge to people like Zarm, so I would suggest you also watch your words. But by all means continue the thread if you have more to say.

OK...
A lot of different people, in a lot of different places, at a lot of different times, have seen a lot of different things. OR...
Let's suppose that roughly half of these things turn out to be MACHINES from the United States. Let's suppose also that about 25% TURN OUT TO BE - MACHINES - from Elsewhere On Earth. Let's remember that SOME are outright frauds, hoaxes, etc., and that some are weather, meteors, etc., and that about 4% (or less, but still SOME) CANNOT be proven NOT to be machines from a planet orbiting some other star. Or, at any rate, they cannot be explained away as something ordinary.
Now...
If something shows up on photographic film, then it was NOT "all in someone's head". If it shows up on radar, then it is NOT "all in someone's head". If it shows up on videotape, then it is NOT "all in someone's head". And if it leaves impressions in the ground, then it is NOT "all in someone's head".
Now, those "Christian" writers do not say much - if anything - about the photographs, videotapes, etc., perhaps because they figure that nobody will believe that the photographs were produced by demons. The "Christian" writers do not say (that I know of) that the UFO photographs are all fakes, possibly because if people remember that some people sometimes falsify things, then people won't believe that people really, really have been seeing demons. There is a lot more I'd like to say about the subject, but I'm out of time for now.

Tom, I didn't see anything offensive about Zarm's post. Some of it (the baboon part) references a statement Mike made in Political Musings, if that was what you were referring to.

Perhaps I spoke (wrote) too soon, but I feel that if an occassional unnecessary "word of advice" can prevent things from escalating, it's worth more than ten times having to purge the thread.

(And yes, I did miss the point of the baboon reference.)

Well, I've learned a long time hence that my humor doesn't translate well on the internet, so if I said anything to offend, be assured it wasn't intentional.

I remember somewhere reading where some pastor, preacher, or some religious leader like that, said that aliens were demons because the description the abductees gave of the aliens matched (supposedly) the description given of demons. Shrugs. Not much proof if you ask me.

Well, you are dealing with three thesises here;
1. Aliens are modernized Demons.
2. The Old Ones were extraterrestials.
3. Demons and Aliens are both the result of the same agent.

1 and 2 are begging the question, because we all have preconcieved conceptions of what Aliens and Demons are. #3 Assumes nothing, unknown activity is happening, and we decide to match it with whatever Old Ones were popular in the age of our birth.

Aliens are complex, multi-celled organisms who make and use tools and who come from some other planet - and knowing as much as we do about the solar system, that means they would have to come from a planet orbiting some other star.

Demons are those former angels who joined Lucifer (now known as Satan) when he started his revolt, and who still work for Satan to this day.

I have no idea who the Old Ones are.

The Goa'uld?

No, the Nox.

Or it could also be the Asgard... better yet, the Ancients!

The Old Ones were around back in the good old days, when there was really something, not like today...

grumble grumble back when I was young grumble grumble you youngsters have no idea grumble

Yep, you young'uns, got yerselfs no respect for us elders! 'Specially you there constanze!

Hey, you kids! That's MY PORCH! Git!

Shakes his cane at them

Hey Scott,

thanks for the compliment of counting me as young'un - I thought that (being 30+ and female) I'm now one of the elders myself?

Odd... I had you pegged as a teenager. Go figure!

Now I feel insulted... (Not really, just kidding. I'm used to people who see me thinking me younger than I really am; but on the internet... interesting.)

The Great Old Ones are part of the Cthuluh Mythos, which is an artificial mythology created by HP Lovecraft, and is used in horror literature to this day, including the Buffyverse. The Old Ones, were creatures that pre-existed man, and would someday return to replace him. The creatures were neither God, nor Demon, nor Alien, but were so radically different from humanity, no words existed to describe this terror from the beyond. I am not suggesting that ancient gods roam beyond the stars, rather using them as an analogy.

So the analogy is this, if an ancient man saw a Old One, he would call him a Demon. If a Modern Man saw an old one, he would call him an Alien. Neither of them is wrong about what he is seeing, it's the cognitive biases of their age. One expects to see the Supernatural, the other expects the Extraterrestial. The Ancients thought Giants built stonehenge, we think Aliens did it.

OK, now suppose we take the position that a brick wall really is there, whether we want to believe it or not, so we shouldn't close our eyes, say, "It's there for you, but it's not there for me", and try to run right through it. In a universe where some things are definitely true, some things are definitely false, and some things are As-Yet-Unproven (SOME of which are definitely true and SOME of which are definitely false), if somebody sees an Unidentified Flying MACHINE, should we call it "Somebody Else's MACHINE", or should we say, "Oh, you see it, but there's really nothing there, because demons are projecting illusions into your cranium."? What would photographic film, radar images, videotape, and impressions-in-the-ground-with-traces-of-radioactivity prove about which of these two explanations is the most reasonable?

Articles online document that these so-called
"Alien Abductions" can be stopped in the name of Christ, http://www.alienresistance.org/ufo-alien-deception/alienabductions-stop-in-the-name-jesus-christ/

Many Online Articles have documented studies that show that so-called "Alien Abductions" can be halted by the person screaming the name of Jesus, saying something like
"In the name of The Lord Jesus Christ I command you to leave and never return" and these
"Aliens" or Demons(Fallen Angels) leave and never return

Yes, but what about Ghosts, I found this article which claims to Scientifically Explain Ghost Sightings, https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ghost-sightings-as-explained-by-science-131550406.html

Good for you.

I found this article
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-idiocy-fabrications-and-lies-of-ancient-aliens-86294030/

Also did anyone ever read the book
"UFO End-Time Delusion" by
David Allen Lewis & Robert Shreckhise
first published in July 1991
Also did anyone ever see
the CBS Storybreak Special
"Grinny" which featured UFO'S,
"Grinny" can be found on YouTube,
When I first watched it in
June of 1991, I thought it was
Scary AF ,

Did anyone see this article online
by Jeff Short that mentions
the book "Chariots of the gods"
the article is here
https://jeffshort.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/if-chariots-of-the-gods-is-true-were-in-big-trouble/