Who all believes in angels, who has a guardian angel, and what does an angel look like to you?
I believe in angels--I believe they look like people, but...different. (I dunno--that's what Genesis says--nothing in the Bible about "Only Angels Have Wings", so I'm afraid that Henry Travers was just pulling Jimmy Stewart's leg)
I have no idea about guardian angels. Various Christians have different opinions.
Personally, my beliefs are that Angels are messengers from God for different things and that there are several different types of Angels although we don't know everything each type's job consists of now. My particular congregation believes that Angels, are not sent to Earth anymore after Biblical times.
I believe in angels. Well, one, at least. Machiko, ever since she sent me her pic that time. But then y'all just knew I was gonna say that anyway, didn'tcha? *S*
I don't visit Nitcentral much anymore so I was a tad surpised to see some more boards here. Man, do I have to catch up. It'll take forever!
I am not an angel. I'm a demoness. I live in the Twelfth Circle of Hell, after all.
And this is a serious question, Mark2. *Frowns* Be serious! Everyone else is. Look at Morgan. He's the most somber of us. Right, Morgan?
Yeah, yeah, Doll. You're an angel to me, so an angel you be. But I knew your question was serious. I was just trying a little levity is all.
Now, how do I really think about angels? Well, I'm openminded, as you know, so I won't go either way too readily, but then I also sort of believe in ghosts (or at least enjoy reading "true" ghost stories), so the possibility of angels is a nice thought to me. Frinstance, do we have guardian angels looking after us? Who knows? But if we do then why don't they stop us from getting into accidents, being murdered, taking a wrong turn, doing better in school, seeking better careers and help us in so many other ways? Well, I'd think that otherwise we wouldn't learn as well, or at all, if we had someone to basically hold our hand every step of the way. We need to learn from our own mistakes and those of others to try not repeating them ourselves. I'm not sure if I really understand all that much about angels (if anything), but couldn't they also just be earthbound spirits who chose, or are chosen, to help us in certain situations, giving us subtle clues that we have to be receptive enough to pick up on, and that if we're not then consequences could ensue? I dunno, just thinking.
::Frinstance, do we have guardian angels looking after us? Who knows? But if we do then why don't they stop us from getting into accidents, being murdered, taking a wrong turn, doing better in school, seeking better careers and help us in so many other ways?:: MarkN
Why would an angel stop us from doing better in school and seeking better careers? I think you've worded this slightly odd.
And why would they stop from helping us in so many ways? *LMAO*
Ok, ok! Stop picking on me! *pout* So maybe I didn't phrase it quite like I meant to. I'm like that sometimes. Jwb, you know how that is (you've said so yourself before). Anyways, I didn't mean angels wouldn't stop us from doing better in school, but that they'd let us do as well as we would on our own, without interferring in such a way as to make us smarter, ok? Wouldn't, or don't, they let us learn at our own pace instead? And MJ, if they do exist and help us, I'm sure it is in so many ways, all right? Jeez, girl, sometimes you make it so hard to love you but darnit, it also just makes me resolve to love you all that more strongly. *S*
Ok, so now let's get some other people's thoughts on angels, shall we?
MarkN, I'm sorry, but for once I just couldn't resist.
Okay, then. In response to my own question: Yes, I do, and it's too complicated to explain.
Mark2, you have my permission to fall out of love with me. I won't get mad, I promise.
Yes, I believe in angels, but I know of no Biblical evidence to support the existence of guardian angels. No, I don't believe that people turn into angels after they die. (Glorified human beings will actually be higher than angels). I don't believe that angels look like those cute little cherubs you see on Christmas greeting cards. I believe that angels are still active in the world today.
I think that about covers it.
I personally do not believe in angels. I can't really explain why. I mean, I know why, but I can't get the words together. I guess it goes with my belief of a distant God. I believe that God looks on from a distance, so having angels participate in daily lives doesn't mesh with that.
MarkN, I'm sorry, but for once I just couldn't resist.
That's ok, Jwb. I'm over it now. :^)
Mark2, you have my permission to fall out of love with me.
Sorry, babe. It'll never happen. Deal with it. *S*
Ah, maybe this won't turn into an insult war (he said, knowingly)
Actually I believe the word angel is simply
Greek for a messenger so an angel doesn't need
to be supernatural,according to strict interpretation of the word.
As far as belief in Angels goes:Well you can
never tell.There is that verse in the Bible
about entertaining angels unawares,so even if
one did meet an angel they most likely wouldn't
notice.
I think that is one thing that the show TOUCHED
BY AN ANGEL has gotten correct.The Angels on the
show always are shown as being human.
BTW:Monica is one Angel I wouldn't mind neeting,
any Angel that LOVES to drink coffee the way she
does...:)
BTW:According to legend the Platagenet Dynasty
was descended from a demoness.The legend can be
found in the following:THE CONQUERING FAMILY,
ELEANOR OF AQUITAINE AND
THE FOUR KINGS,
THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS
(novel about King John),
THE DISPUTED CROWN(I think
that's the title,it's about the Civil War between
the Empress Matilda The RIGHTFUL Queen of England
and her cousin King Stephen and is another novel.)
Why is it my messages only get through if they are gibberish?
Peter
LMFAO, is this an epiphany peter? Or finally a little bit of reality on your part?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe the software is trying to tell you something?
Silence before someone drops a house on you
Are you implying that all the other Lutherans of the West aren't good?
Pesti, don't start it again.
Pesti, I'm glad to see that all of Phil's hard work resulted in your usual high level of discourse.
Go ahead and play architect all you want, Pesti. Don't bother me a bit.
What about the Lutherans of the East?
We're off to see the Baptist, the wonderful Baptist of Oz....
Lutherans of the West use Pot Luck dinners and are Ultra Conservative and think the Pope is Antichrist. Lutherans of the ELCA support abortion and tolerate homosexual relationships, allow women to serve as Pastors and are usually Scandanavian. They are in error.
Anyways, now Peter must go to the wonderful Baptist of Oz, leave Mormon Village and follow the Episcolapalian road.
"Episcolapalian?" Do they sell Coke or something?
It's the new church, Matthew. The Church of the Episcolapalian, Vendor of Coca-Cola.
Didn't you get the memo?
I see that Matt hasn't found the new SpellChecker yet.
BTW, does that mean that Great and Powerful Spellchecker™ is out of a job?
Ayup. Except for Matt Pesti...
I resist this Orwellian notion of a spell checker. Viva La resistance.
Mark! You're back! Uh oh... gotta run over to VoU and tell them to clean up after the party!
Scandanavian? The horror, the horror...
Please.
Scandanavian?
Scandalous avians!
The horrors of scandalous avians pleases Mike!
Yeah.
Scandanavian?
BTW, does that mean that Great and Powerful Spellchecker™ is out of a job?
I think not.
Hi, kiddies! I'm ba-a-ack! Mwahahahahaha!!! No artificial means of spellchecking can even come close to the real thing! Never, I tell you. NEVER!!!
Scandanavian. v. int..
John, as an enemy radar operator, Scandanavian reported the results to his superiors.
I've found actual proof of angels. Well, ok, just one: Planet of the Apes' Estella Warren. The proof is here, here, here, here and here.
Down boy! Heel! Heel!
Toe! Toe! Do-si-do!
Are we starting the Religious Musing Square Dancing, Margie?
A bit too retouched for my taste. Why'd they have to airbrush out the top of her anal cleft?
Captain Obvious, you're looking too closely if you notice a top of an anal cleft.
No, J, he's looking too closely cuz he's a purebred, red-blooded, all-American, heterosexual male that enjoys looking at attractive women.
And did anyone else have problems seeing the first three pix? I tried but only got a small Angelfire icon in the upper left corner. Well, if you want to see where I got them from it's at C4's Estella Warren Gallery, of which there are 15 and her angel pix are scattered throughout but some are on the last page or two.
::No, J, he's looking too closely cuz he's a purebred, red-blooded, all-American, heterosexual male that enjoys looking at attractive women.:: MarkN
Not all of them are like that though that they would go purposely looking.
J, I was kidding.
My point was that the pic was airbrushed because there WASN'T a normal-looking anal cleft. It looked like someone airbrushed out the top, but why do that?
I mean, ya show all that, but that little portion is a no-no?
I don't get it.
Some of those triggered the work filter. I hope I don't get in trouble.
Captain Obvious, I still think you were looking at the screen too closely if you noticed an anal cleft was missing. LOL
Get back now! My owner just ate Mexican food and I'm not afraid to use it!
Scott, it's the couch for you tonight!
I was on the couch anyways... I'm sick and Mrs. N doesn't want to catch it.
Some of those triggered the work filter. I hope I don't get in trouble.
My apologies if it does, Scott. I didn't think it filtered out links, just particular words. If Phil yells at you for it then tell him it was my fault for posting those links in the first place. That is, when he's done looking at them...over and over and over and over and....
Scott works for Phil?
Ok, back to the topic of angels.
She can not be an angel. There are no female angels. See Gen 6:1&2 among others.
What about guardian angels?
Matthew 18:10 Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven.
Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?
Angels nice? Passive?
2Ki 19:35 And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred fourscore and five thousand (185,000): and when they (the Isrealits) arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
But atleast they look like cute little babies right?
Right from the start Ezekiel gives several enlightening discriptions of angels. NONE of which you would want to meet in a dark ally.
Matt 28:2-4
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:....
And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
Angels/God don't do anything anymore/in the post crucification era.
There are soooo many cases that prove this wrong. Just to name a few.
The book of Revelations is about an angel showing John the end days.
Jesus appears to Saul, triggering conversion.
On a less optimistic note Satan, an angel, has been givin dominion over the Earth, and wanders it TO THIS DAY! Matt 4: 8&9 Again, the devil taketh him (Jesus) up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
I meant, it tripped the filters at my work. No, I don't work for The Chief!
::The book of Revelations is about an angel showing John the end days.
Jesus appears to Saul, triggering conversion.
On a less optimistic note Satan, an angel, has been givin dominion over the Earth, and wanders it TO THIS DAY! Matt 4: 8&9 Again, the devil taketh him (Jesus) up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.:: Adam
If you thought I meant "post crucifixion" I'm sorry. I meant "any time after those mentioned in the Bible. I and my group do not believe the Book of Revelation to be a book that says, "these are the things that will happen at the end of time" like some people. We believe that no one can know truly what will happen before God returns. Revelation is almost completely figurative. We believe Satan's power, except for indirect influence which is not much, has been taken from him from the moment of his casting into Hell.
We believe Satan's power, except for indirect influence which is not much, has been taken from him from the moment of his casting into Hell. Jwb
When do you believe that moment happened?
Well, it happened after the Devil tried to take over Heaven and lost as far as I remember.
She can not be an angel. There are no female angels. See Gen 6:1&2 among others.
Or just watch Dogma.
But the Devil is not in Hell--how else did he make his appearances in the Gospels, and how else is he the "prince and power of the air?" (unless the latter is referring to Ted Turner, highly probable)
Or Ted Turner is... na, thats to easy.
No, Bill Gates is Satan, Ted Turner and Rupert Murdoch are just two of his countless demonic minions.
As Mike pointed out he is known as "the prince and power of the air." Would this title ally to Ted Turner? When Bridget Fonda "found God" they split up. hmmm. I'm just think out loud here.
JANE Fonda.
Bridget and Ted...eeeeeeeuuuuuuuuu!
::But the Devil is not in Hell--how else did he make his appearances in the Gospels, and how else is he the "prince and power of the air?" (unless the latter is referring to Ted Turner, highly probable):: MikeC
How can you say that the Devil is not in Hell? Where do you think the Devil is?
J, the Devil, or rather evil in general, doesn't reside in some fiery place of eternal damnation, but instead is within all of us. Well, not me. I just play Liberace and it keeps Ol' Scratchypoo outta my life. Unfortunately, I have to suffer listening to Libby myself but I guess it's not too bad a tradeoff, considering the alternative. Thankfully, I don't have to listen to it 24/7, but just when I feel that dude coming around.
I think the Devil is on Earth. Why would the Devil WANT to be in Hell?
Why would the Devil WANT to be in Hell?
It it better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven. -- Paradise Lost
But the Bible never mentions anything about him reigning in Hell. In fact, Hell as the popular media conception of it does not exist in the Bible, nor are there people in Hell at this time, according to the Bible.
"Hell" is simply a place reserved for the Devil, his angels, and unrepentant sinners.
::J, the Devil, or rather evil in general, doesn't reside in some fiery place of eternal damnation, but instead is within all of us. Well, not me. I just play Liberace and it keeps Ol' Scratchypoo outta my life. Unfortunately, I have to suffer listening to Libby myself but I guess it's not too bad a tradeoff, considering the alternative. Thankfully, I don't have to listen to it 24/7, but just when I feel that dude coming around.:: MarkN
Evidence?
::I think the Devil is on Earth. Why would the Devil WANT to be in Hell?:: MikeC
I believe that's where God put Satan.
::But the Bible never mentions anything about him reigning in Hell. In fact, Hell as the popular media conception of it does not exist in the Bible, nor are there people in Hell at this time, according to the Bible.
"Hell" is simply a place reserved for the Devil, his angels, and unrepentant sinners.:: MikeC
I don't think that's a Biblical thought that people are not in Hell now. If people can't be in Hell now, no one can be in Heaven either and limbo and purgatory are not Biblical either except to Catholics....but that's another matter.
But in the Bible, nobody gets put into Hell until Revelation 20--"The Dead Are Judged," unless we get into the business about different Hells, etc., etc. I do believe people are with God (dunno if this is "Heaven" or what) because Jesus told the thief on the cross "TODAY you will be with me in Paradise.")
Where in the Bible does it say that God put Satan in Hell? In Job, he seems perfectly hunky-dory on the Earth. In the Gospels, he tempts Jesus on Earth. If he was in Hell, I don't think he could get out--he'd be burning!
MikeC, so you believe NO ONE goes to Hell until time ends? It can't be both ways. Either both get either their reward or punishment or neither do. I rather think that it is both get what they deserve after they die no matter when that is happening.
::Where in the Bible does it say that God put Satan in Hell? In Job, he seems perfectly hunky-dory on the Earth. In the Gospels, he tempts Jesus on Earth. If he was in Hell, I don't think he could get out--he'd be burning!:: MikeC
I don't think I can explain it where you'll understand but my group believes that the Devil is in Hell ever since He took the Devil's power away from him.
Jwb, if you don't mind my curiousity, what group do you belong to?
MikeC, I agree with you that Satan is on Earth.
Jwb, do you believe the Devil can leave Hell or is he bound there? If he's bound there, when do you believe God locked him in?
Why can't I have it both ways? Do you have any Biblical back-up to either support my viewpoint or to support your viewpoint?
*** so you believe NO ONE goes to Hell until time ends? It can't be both ways. Either both get either their reward or punishment or neither do. **
Why not? Are you gonna tell God when he can and can't send people to Heaven and Hell? Try again.
But for the most part if you read the Bible most people will not go to Heaven or Hell till Judgement day. Are there exceptions? sure. If Jesus wants to take the thief that dies on the cross with him to Heaven right away why can't he?
** my group believes that the Devil is in Hell **
Luke 8:30-33 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep. And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them. Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked
Rev 12:9-13 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man.
** Better to rule in Hell then to serve in Heaven. **
-> NOBODY <- rules in Hell.
::Jwb, do you believe the Devil can leave Hell or is he bound there? If he's bound there, when do you believe God locked him in?:: MikeC
I don't believe God would let the Devil leave Hell.
::Why can't I have it both ways? Do you have any Biblical back-up to either support my viewpoint or to support your viewpoint?:: MikeC
I'm not equipped to explain fully and this board is already too full as it is with other things.
Adam, those things happened before the Bible itself was written so they don't apply.
When do you believe Satan was bound in Hell? In the Gospels, he seems perfectly free to wander around.
I agree with Mike. I distinctly remember reading Jesus being tempted by Satan when he was in the desert. So Satan must have been able to get out of Hell. He also was the serpent in the Garden of Eden, so he's gotten out at least twice.
*** Adam, those things happened before the Bible itself was written so they don't apply. ***
???????????????????
Are you *SURE* you want to use this train of thought?
No kidding, Adam. J, are you discounting pre-biblical events masterminded by god as not applying at all only because they've never been written about? Where, oh, where do you get your information from and really, how do you know that it's the actual, factual, inerrant truth?
I don't want to argue about this. I wish I hadn't said it.
I don't want to "argue about this" either. The idea here is to exchange ideas and points of veiw on the topic of angels (including demons who are angles). If you have biblical references to support them great. If not I'm willing to listen anyway. Just please try to explain your beliefs as clearly as you can, and if you can, why you feel that way. I can't speak for others but when I reply I'm not trying to "attack" your beliefs, simply juxtaposing it to my own POV, and why.
>including demons who are angles<
I knew those angles were up to no good! 
Good one, Margie! gives the thumbs up
>including demons who are angles<
I knew those angles were up to no good!
Even the Right Angles?
They're all right...
No, there are some that acute, and some that are obtuse.
And some angles that are extremely obtuse.
I meant the right angles are all right. The acute angles, of course, are all acute, and the obtuse, all obtuse. Natch.
So, MJ, are you acute angle? Or are you obtuse? I guess you could be both... Right?
Yes, m'lord Scott, I am both.
More latter than the former, but hey...someone needs to keep m'lord Morgan in line.
A woman goes to the doctor.
The doctor examines her and says, "You have acute vaginitis."
She blushes and says, "Why, thank you."
Thank you very much, everyone! Thank you! I'll be here all week long. Take care!
(Off-topic, sure, but with all that "acute" talk, well it jes' plain done remind me of this here joke.)
Mark? After that joke, you might just want to take a 2-3 month visit to Washington. I hear Mt. Ranier is lovely this time of year...
I'd love to. Are you gonna pay all my expenses, plus some extra spending money? Actually, just give me the amount of all the money cuz I need it more than a trip to Washington. It's bad enough my family's going to Lake Almanor without me cuz I've got to work two jobs that weekend.
I think the Devil is on Earth. Why would the Devil WANT to be in Hell? - MikeC
Because... maybe he likes seeing people suffer?
A woman goes to the doctor.
The doctor examines her and says, "You have acute vaginitis."
She blushes and says, "Why, thank you." - MarkN
I never heard *that* version before.
But in the Bible, the Devil is tortured continually when he is finally put in Hell. I don't think he'll have time to enjoy watching other people suffer.
Really, PO? What version did you hear? I slightly changed mine, but it's still the same basic joke.
from the post of Jwb52z on August 22, 2000
>>My particular congregation believes that Angels are not sent to Earth anymore after Biblical times.<<
This sounds like a very subjective statement. I doubt that the bible will support such a claim. (pardon my harshness ... I'm just curious as to the reasons why)
Derf, in my opinion, the Bible does not say that no angels will be sent to Earth anymore. It does not really say there will be either. It does say that when the End Times begin, there will be angels and vast signs and happenings.
Mike, that's only if you take Revelation literally. I think that that is not future revelation for us now. I know that people don't understand that though.
There are plenty of earthly messengers about since time began ... it would also seem a natural assumption to believe that heavenly messengers are still needed from time to time.
What do you believe it is revelation for?
Really, PO? What version did you hear? I slightly changed mine, but it's still the same basic joke. - MarkN
Well, the ailment is different (appendicitis or something) and the response is "Enough of the compliments - just tell me what's wrong with me!"
There are of course, various combinations, some are -shall we say- cleaner than others.
Mike, I believe that revelation is not necessary anymore because if it was, the book of Revelation would be in violation of itself within the Bible. The Bible says that no man knows, only The Father, when the end will come. If there were actual signs that do exist, people could know, but God says, in the Bible, that know man does. Therefore, that can't be future prophecy for us except that Christ hasn't come back yet.
Jwb, having real signs doesn't mean that we know the "day and hour" of Christ's coming. All they tell us is that "it is near, even at the doors." You say there can't be future prophecy because then we'd know when Christ's coming, which we mustn't know. Why would that have to be the only reason for revelations from God? And although you've said that you (and your group) don't take much if any of Revelation literally, are you saying that you don't take any of the signs from Matthew 24 literally, either?
If anyone wants a non-Revelation, biblical reference to angels coming in a future time, how about Matthew 24:31. "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Of course, that could apply to earthly messengers, and not just the heavenly variety, and I believe that sign is already in progress.
Now, for the record, and my 2 cents, I believe angels can appear to men just as they did in Bible times. Joseph Smith had various angels appear to him to give him instruction. And I believe angels can still minister to us. The Book of Mormon says:
36 Or have angels ceased to appear unto the children of men? Or has [God] withheld the power of the Holy Ghost from them? Or will he, so long as time shall last, or the earth shall stand, or there shall be one man upon the face thereof to be saved?
37 Behold I say unto you, Nay; for it is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men; wherefore, if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain. (Moroni 7:36-37)
Makes sense to me.
::Jwb, having real signs doesn't mean that we know the "day and hour" of Christ's coming.:: Matt Duke
Yes, but it would give you an idea, and we're not supposed to have any idea and just "be ready" when it happens.
::You say there can't be future prophecy because then we'd know when Christ's coming, which we mustn't know. Why would that have to be the only reason for revelations from God?:: Matt Duke
No, what I said was that that was the reason that the Book of Revelation wasn't future prophecy for US now. God gave us all we are to know from the Bible, from now on, I believe. The rest of what you say is only true if you believe that Joseph Smith was not a crackpot who just wanted fame and glory of some kind.
What do you believe Revelation is about, just goofy metaphors that are of no use to Christians?
I don't buy into End Times predictions--I agree with you on that. But a synopsis of what will happen in the End Times does not spoil the surprise of when it will happen, if you get my drift.
Also only God knows when the end will come. No queation their. As I understand your thoughts here, you believe that see these signs will mean the end is near and "spoil" the ending. Tip the hat if you will.
OTOH as I see it if we see these signs, its already too late. The end isn't near... it has arrived. Time to do it or get off the can. He is giving believers one late chance by saying "all aboard!"
If we are going to leave mainstream religion (oh, I'm asking for it now) the angel Gabriel appeared to Mohammed after the bible.
There IS the precedent of earthly messengers being visited by heavenly messengers. People up to the time of Moses were usually visited by GOD himself. Beyond that, prophets of God were usually spoken to by God (by revelation or by dream), or visited by one of his Angels. (most notably Abraham, however Joseph was also visited in a dream by an angel, and I wouldn't call Joseph a prophet of God)
This "Angel-Prophet-Masses" motif came about when God brought the people of Israel to Mount Sinai and tried to speak to them directly, but they became afraid and asked Moses to speak for them. Ever since then, God has used prophets (earthly messengers - preachers) to spread his word.
::What do you believe Revelation is about, just goofy metaphors that are of no use to Christians?
I don't buy into End Times predictions--I agree with you on that. But a synopsis of what will happen in the End Times does not spoil the surprise of when it will happen, if you get my drift.:: MikeC
Yes, alot of it is metaphor, but not all. The problem with having knowledge of what will go on before time ends means that someone could figure it out by watching what is going on in the world. That's why I don't buy that they are future predictions for us now.
-- A bit too retouched for my taste. Why'd they have to airbrush out the top of her anal cleft? --
Captain, if you don't like "airbrushing" then you should see some of the other pictures in the Gallery. Of course, you probably have done.
When were these pics taken anyway? In some of them she almost looks like a kid.
Specter, I think she started modeling when she was a teen, but I'm sure those pix were all taken some time after that. She's now 22.