That American flag they presented to the aliens in the beginning was incorrectly folded. There was still red showing.

Cassandra's not restrained, so… why doesn't she just go?

Where has Marita been for the past year? And why is she in the makeup of a drug addict? Haven't they proved that the vaccine worked, on Scully and on her?

Is the cure really a vaccine? I thought a vaccine was something you took to heighten your immune response so you wouldn't get a disease in the first place, not something you took to get rid of the disease after you had it.

How did M&S get out of the facility and to the Gunmen?

So, the cause of saving humanity was wrong, eh?

This makes what Scully did in "The Erlenmeyer Flask" even worse. That fetus had been in liquid nitrogen since 1973! I'm surprised her hands didn't fall off!

Well, this pretty much proves that CGB isn't Mulder's father. After all, what would he have to gain by lying?

So if all the men are gone, why is Ratboy still at the room on East 46th?

I'd like to register a complaint against TCI Cablevision of Baton Rouge. Every so often, the picture would go to black and white and the audio track would switch to that of a religious "moonie" broadcast. The only way I could figure out what was going on was by watching the closed captions!

1013 alert! Fort Marlene: 10:13 PM

Why does Maritas look like the old, withered Vina from "the Cage?"

Who put the fetus back in Fort Marlene? Last we saw, it was sitting in the Pentagon! And for that matter, why did they change the whole fort? It was a lot more like a hospital the last time we saw it. Ah, what a difference five years makes.

How come Scully gets in front of Skinner's car and Mulder gets in back? Did she call shotgun while they were waiting ?And how come Skinner showed up instead of someone whom they might trust a little more, like the Gunmen?

WOW! The rebels ARE the shapeshifters! If this is true, then why do they show their true identity after you rip off the top layer o ftheir skin? I thought they were like Odo and changed their identity fully, not just the top layer.

Now, I doubt Mulder's going to appreciate having a corpse down there when he moves back in…

In conclusion, I'd like to say, Full Disclosure? Hardly. The explanation given here sounds exactly like what me and my friends have been saying for years. Justr another ploy to boost ratings, although unlike the average over-hyped Trek episode, this DID explain a few things.

Ding Dong Spender's Dead!

I thought the Flag was a nice touch even if inproperly folded.

I agree, We learned a lot, but not everything.

Goody, Next week after a Myth Episode, we get Sam the Sea Monster!

ANP

Great episode! Finally some good stuff was revealed but without spoiling the whole 'plot'.

What is the significance of the 10:13?

I think there was a 7:04 pm in there somewhere for a 47 (I know wrong series but what the hey)

What were Mulder and Scully trying to acomplish by shooting the train? Even if they kill the conductor the train will still work.

We had our station switch to a Eskmo Car commercial in the middle of a scene only to cut back 30 seconds later in the scene!

ANP

Pick my jaw up off the floor! I was not expecting that ending! Daddy was certainly disappointed with Sonny Boy!

Quick nits and comments:

Would they really have showered Mulder and Scully even semi-together?

M&S's glances at each other in the shower: humanity in the face of absurdity.

Mulder tells the nurse that his shoes are two sizes too small. He doesn't seem to be running in any pain.

If Marita was so wacked why wasn't she restrained. Good make-up on her. Those bloodshot eyes gave me the willies.

Wow, is Scully getting worked up and vocal over this conspiracy thing. When Mulder was ready to let the whole thing ride SHE was the one rallying to keep the thing going. There's a switch.

I missed it and I haven't played it back yet to find out, but in Fowley's apartment when Mulder points the gun at CSM, CSM lights up. The next thing you know CSM is sitting in the chair spilling his guts out. When he's finished he reaches in his pocket and pulls out another cigarette. I missed it but what happened to the first one?

Wonderful scene with CSM and Mulder! We have now seen that the CSM is a very passionate and COMpassionate man. I may never think of him the same again.

I'm having a change of heart of Krycek also. I think he loves humanity too much to let it go to heck in a handbasket. We have seen a more gentle and compassionate side of him in these past two episodes.

So now we get down to a discussion of morality and a rhetorical debate for a collegiate philosphy class: What would be the extent of your sacrifice to save the human race? Was the Consortium entirely wrong?

Now, that the members of the Consortium are charcoal brickettes are the aliens going to invade anyway? Will the rebels leave and fight their battle out in space?

I still think there are more than two kinds of aliens here. The ones we saw tonight looked like the ones in the West Virginia mill when M&S were looking through all the immunization files. The aliens in the movie were ferocious killers, bigger and uglier. We've seen the oil take over bodies and then leave the bodies undamaged, yet we've also seen the black oil invade and gestate one of the Big Uglies inside the host. We've seen the hybrids with the green toxic blood, and we've seen the shapeshifting aliens with the same green toxic blood. And with all the hybrids and clones they have shown us, they still haven't explained why Cassandra was the ultimate success!

Despite all these unanswered questions and wonderings, I still thought it was a dynamite episode!

Toss up for the best lines:

Cassandra: Biggest bastard of all!

or

Scully: Sir, I wouldn't bet against him.

Again, a lot of confirming things we already figured out, but lots of great surprises!

What was the point of the American flag? I didn't understand that part.

SUBJ: The Shower
-It was decontamination shower, so it is possible they take one at the same time.

-There was a division between Mulder and Scully's sides.

-I just had to laugh when they gave each other the look.

ANP

What was the point of the American flag? I didn't understand that part. I was surprised as how much we actually found out in "Full Disclosure". We did learn CSM's name (CGB Spender) and what the Consortium has been doing all these years and where they came from.

October 13th, 10-13, is Chris Carter's birthday and the writers try to work it into most of the scripts. It's much like the 47s, except usually not as blatant.

Yep, this episode revealed where the Consortium is coming from with their cooperation with the aliens. But it also anihilated them in this episode ... except for CGB and Fowley. Wonder if they're going to start a new club. Wait a minute, Strughold is in Tunisia ... that means he's still out there with the bee-experiment.

At the start of the episode, they showed October 13, 1973 (10/13) as the date when the Consortium/Syndicate handed over the American Flag. I also was wondering why the American Flag since it was hinted that the Consortium was made up of different "movers" like Strughold. So why not German/British/etc. flags thrown in, too? I guess it's because TPTB don't want to get in trouble showing the "surrender" of their flag to even a fictitious "conqueror."

Why are the families of the Consortium who went to the airbase carrying luggages? They planning on vacationing? ;-)

When CGB said he saved Mulder so that he may see his sister again, I just couldn't get it. He pushed for the colonization to begin. So, that means the only people who will survive would be the human-alien hybrid. Since he, Mulder and the Consortium friends are not hybrids, how do they expect to survive?

When M&S go after the train, what was the point of running their car across the track? They should've known that it was going to ram through it. I was thinking maybe Mulder would do a stunt jumping onto it.

Yikes, for a moment I thought CGB was a softy 'coz he just couldn't kill Cassandra. But then he turns around and kills his son. At least Jeffrey has stirred up enough before CGB got to him to have M&S get on the X-Files again.

Ok, this is it for tonight.

I'll have to check my videotape, but I swear, it looked to me like Mulder's father was Deep Throat! Am I crazy, or did they really try to pull a fast one on us?

As near as I can tell, the X-Files resides in the same universe as Star Trek. Long time viewers of the various Trek series will know that to change a person completely, all you have to do is change some of their DNA. As near as I can figure, that's how this whole "alien hybrid" thing works--Krychek said they had all gone to "receive the alien genome." So, what, you get injected with the thing and suddenly you're half alien?

So the Consortium began "the project" 25 years agao, but the aliens first arrived 50 years ago, at Roswell. What was going on with the invasion for 25 years, anyway?


So, where is Marita now, anyway? did Spender just leave her in that awful place? If so, he *deserved* to be shot!

Man, that "vaccine" sure goes bad fast. Here's the scoop: the Russians infect Mulder, he gets the vaccine immediately, Mulder ok. Krychek' double-dealing gets Marita infected, they try the vaccine, not ok. To cover this nit, in the movie, CC throws in a line about how the vaccine needs to be administered within a certain amount of time. Mulder schleps *all the way out to the arctic* to administer the vaccine to Scully, not only is she fine, they practically wreck the entire ship!

The *only* way this works is if the vaccine is worthless after a certain amount of time (T), but extremely potent up until about T minus 10 seconds! Like I said, the stuff goes bad in a hurry!

Did anyone else think "Firewalker" or "Ice" when they saw the preview?

Has any signle episode revealed more to us, ever? I don't think so...

Things that aren't yet clear:

Krychek's allegiance.

Krychek's power over Skinner.

Gibson!

The corn.

The purpose of the hybrids is still a tad vague.

I imagine Strughold's so powerful he arranged for a personal pickup. Or maybe he's out of the picture all ready. Or maybe...

Murray: Fear The Corn. (Okay, okay, I'll shut up now.)

All right, this was good. I liked the overall *feel* (it had good vibes, man) with
people doing this, that, going here, there, verywhere; everyone knows where
everyone is, they give information and the depart. It was like watching a
extremely skillful play: Person A visits Person B, give info then flits off to the
hanger, where just about everyone ends up; etc, etc. I loved the bit with Krycek
and Marita; the character interaction was great. In short, I grokked it. :-)

Responses, starting from the top:
1. Cassandra doesn't *go* because she's an old lady whose body has been beaten up
and abused (i don't mean they beat her, but after years in a wheelchair, she was
under going a lot of exertion.) Point is, she's weak, and she may not remember
how to drive after all those years.

2. I liked Marita's makeup; I think it clearly showed she'd been through
you-know-where and back with the vaccine and the Black Cancer, etc etc. I for one
was surprised Scully rebounded so quickly.

3. Matthew, that's a *good* point about the vaccine, and one that our esteemed
Jeanne Cavelos brought up in The Science Of The X-Files (She's officially family
if she edited the Guide.)

4. Matthew, Krycek was waiting for Spender and wallowing in angst, something
that most characters indulged in for the whole episode. (BTW, it's rather inronic
that Dear Diana was residing at Watergate, hmm? Wonder if she ran into 'that
woman.' [I, know, I know, I'm tired of it too.])

5. Come on, Skinner's a good guy; Scully trusts him, so she called him. Plus, his
car probably has better miles-to-the-gallon than the LGM's van.

6. I refuse to believe the shapeshifters are the faceless rebels. First of all, it
directly contradicts the Truth @ 10:13. Secondly, as Matthew said, why would
they only shift the top layer of skin? They've altered their *heigh* before, so it
isn't for lack of ability. This is a serious nit if CC expects us to believe this.
(Believe The Lie...)

7. re decontam shower: Ross, welcome! I think someone mentioned this on another
board, but apparently a line of script was cut. Mulder glances at Scully, so Scully
looks back and says, "My, my, my." Mulder grins and replys, "Right back at ya,
Red." LOL!

8. He only said his shoes were too small to get her to talk to him. No offense, but
this seems obvious.

9. Ross, your question for philosophical debate, if you want to continue with it,
would be best discussed in the Pretender board, in the section "Why Is This On The
Pretender Board?" under Religious Musings. Make sure you post it in the latest
chapter. This may be philosophical, not religious, but some Guild members don't
want to read it, so out of courtesy to them we have our own board.

10. Shirlyn, for something this important, wuoldn't Strughold have flown in? No
doubt he has children in this too.

11. The Consortium were going to be saved from the Black Cancer because they
were all going to get injected with the vaccing first. This would, presumably,
include M&S. ('Course, Scully's immortal, so she may not need it.)

12. Actually, I thought Quagmire when I saw the preview. Another MOTW...sigh...

13. Hamlet.

14. I agree that the hybrid's purpose is still vague.

Okay, heeeere's my rant! On behalf of OBSSE (Order of the Blessed Saint Scully
the Enigmatic--no, it's not a joke), I'M GONNA KILL MULDER IF I EVER SEE HIM!
Scully gave him a choice, and he ignored her! After all that he said to her, after
that moving hallway scene when they put it all on the line, when she asked him to
make simple, reasonable choice, he ignored her! AGGGH!!
Okay, I'm calmer now. <g> *Fortunately*, Scully is still dedicated to the Cause

In answer to the "how would Mulder, Scully and the consortium survive?" query.

Someone (Can't recall who, I'll check later) said that they were going there to be taken aboard a ship and given injections of the alien hybrid materials.

Karra

Actually I believe Strughold was there and died with everyone else.

Three things:

The Syndicate gathers all of their friends and family and heads out to a hangar on an Air Force base to wait for the alien gene or whatever. Everyone is patiently standing, the doors to the hangar open, and the one guy out of the Syndicate says something to the effect of "this isn't right; they haven't been contacted yet." Well, when in the heck *were* you going to contact them, buddy? And *how*? Cell phone? And you bring your families to the middle of a hangar....and they just patiently stand there? I saw children in the group; wouldn't they start in with "Mommy, I want to sit. Mommy, I want to play. Mommy, are we there yet? Mommy, what's Daddy waiting for?"

Also, I know that William B. Davis is a Canadian actor, but I have *never* heard his accent so strong as it was in his conversation with Mulder at the Watergate apartments. "Mulder, there will be an oooooootbreak!" Those of you who taped it, check it and see.

Hmm.....does CC have something against Canada now that they're safely back in LA?

Finally, wouldn't it be wacky if Diane Fowley was Samantha???? Very Luke/Leia....without Leia as a good girl.

I see no reason why Mr. Spender (CSM) can't be Canadian. He did live up there for most of season 5.

Nyla, reason I think Strughold is still out in Tunisia is 'coz I didn't see him among the gathered people. He may have been running late. ;-) Or by gosh, someone forgot all about him and his bee-experiment (lol).

Based on Scully and LGM's research on Fowley's flight activities, I think she probably reports to Strughold.

So, the Consortium, family and friends will be injected with the vaccine. Then what? Are they gonna live with the aliens? I recall that the vaccine was something Bill Mulder suggested but unknown to the aliens, right? I guess the aliens would know that they aren't hybrids so they'd be killed off wouldn't they? It wasn't made clear what the Consortium would get for their cooperation. Probably a planet like Risa. ;-) Oops, that's on ST:DS9 ... wrong show.

Let's see, here's what I think we got so far :

vaccine = cure for black oil

hybrid = to survive the annihilation of human race when colonization begins

Consortium/Syndicate = dwindling numbers

rebel aliens = preventing aliens from getting hybrid-success Cassandra and got the E.B.E. now

"All bets are off" = Mulder

Ok, I think we've gotten ourselves a bigger can of worms now. ;-)

As I understood it, the Consortium's deal with the alien invaders was this: give our group time to develop an alien/human hybrid that will survive your coming black oil invasion. This will allow the hybrids to survive as a slave race. In return for our efforts, colonization will be delayed and we as a group will be afforded special status after the apocalypse. (In the meantime, we will be working on a secret vaccine that will potentially make _everyone_ immune to the black oil, thus thwarting your plot.)
We have seen that the black oil can, at least potentially, cause an alien to gestate in the body of a human. If I am not mistaken, in the movie it was implied that this was the way the aliens would colonize: by immediately populating Earth with 5+ billion newly gestated aliens AND wiping out all humans simultaneously. This is possible because all human DNA is _already_ compatible with the black oil, indicating that the aliens have perhaps intervened directly in human evolution; perhaps preparing us specially for this role.

Having said that, here are my questions:

1)Why is this a good deal for the aliens? Every hybrid that survives is one less colonizing alien and one more potential Resistance member. (Unless you were planning on just leaving a few hundred thousand hybrids around.)
If the aliens have already manipulated our genes to the degree that we are compatible with their black oil, why should they wait 25 years for _humans_ to develop hybrids? Wouldn't their genetic science be more advanced than ours and get them the same result faster?

2) What is the practical difference between a vaccine that protects against black oil infection and a genetic procedure that creates a hybrid that will survive infection? The end result is a human that is still alive after the apocalypse. If the consortium was able to create a successful hybrid, they would not need a vaccine - do you see my reasoning?

3) An unrelated hypothesis about the shapeshifters/faceless rebels: a rebel has a mimetic layer over his face and body, which both gives the appearance of a normal mouth and eyes _and_ can be adjusted to create the appearance of different humans - the alien may even appear to change in size.
Now, as to the rebel's motivation - are they trying to precipitate the invasion, or what? They expose the experiments of the Consortium and subsequently destroy the hybridization project, the only successful hybrid (maybe!), and the Consortium. Now what keeps the colonists from just saying "hey, the heck with it, we've waited long enough, we lost our human collaborators, let's just invade"

Lastly, a proposal regarding the vaccine: it could contain an analogue to 'immune globulin'; that is, it could have a component that would actively bind to the black oil and deactivate it, preventing infection, provided it is given soon enough after exposure that infection is not inevitable. Snake antivenin, post-rabies-exposure shots, Hepatitis B immune globulin, etc., all work by this 'salvage' mechanism. The vaccine could also contain a second component that induces long-term immunity.

Feedback?

Whoa. The destruction of the Syndicate, the CSM laughing, Marita-as-heroin-chick, *and* a M&S shower scene, all in one episode! Heavy stuff.

Still, I gotta wonder whether CC is pulling a fast one on us w/all the deaths here. Characters have a strange way of returning from beyond the grave in this series. One or two of the Syndicate people could have escaped (not likely, though...those photos AD Kirsch had were pretty grisly) or mabye Spender isn't really dead. They never showed a body...but he *was* asking for it---whenever one of the CSM's weasely little friends starts to develop a conscience, you *know* thier time is near.

In addition to the ten-thirteens and 47's in this ep. the time was also 11:21 once (CC's wife's birthday is November 21st.)

As for Mulder's ill-fitting shoes...the suit they gave him looked like it would've fit Scully better, so isn't it possible that the poor guy really needed shoes in a bigger size? he was wincing with every step before he started to run. Mabye he just put the pain out-of-mind when he saw Marita.

And I've been meaning to ask...did Ratboy grow a new arm while we weren't looking?

Here's my questions.

1. What ever DID happen to Krychek? (Well, he couldn't have been killed, as he will be written into future shows.)

2. What ever DID happen to Fowley? (Well, she couldn't have been killed, as he will be written into future shows.)

3. What ever DID happen to Marita? (Well, she couldn't... you see where I'm going here, right?)

4. Does anyone else believe that Spender's not really dead?

5. What WAS the deal with the US flag? Other than "we surrender", I didn't get it.

6. Why didn't we see the Well-Manicured Man (and Strughold) in the "past" scenes, but we saw Bill Mulder?

7. "Purity Control" sure got better security since 1994, don't you think? (They got rid of that stupid "Sign in,please" guard, at least!)

8. Did anyone else find it odd that even though the last episode ended with people knocking on the door, the door was BROKEN DOWN in the beginning of this one?

"Finally, wouldn't it be wacky if Diane Fowley was Samantha???? Very Luke/Leia....without Leia as a good girl. "

Adrienne, it is funny. At some other BBS I visit, somebody stated the same hypothesis. If you are correct... EEW. Didn't Fowley and Mulder date at some point? Would Sam/Diana be unaware of Mulder being her brother? Would she be aware of this but uncaring? The mind boggles, indeed.

In the 1973 scene(s), I didn't see the Well Manicured Man.

Was Agent Fowley Monica Lewinsky's neighbor? Both have resided at the Watergate. Monica recently moved out.

I take it that the events in "Rain King" occurred after this episode.

THE GOOD
*The episode, basically. Fine performances, suspense, good pacing.

*Chris Owens. Probably his finest work as Spender. I really hope he's not dead, because he was just getting interesting.

*William B. Davis. Aside from a few scenes of overacting (and how can't you, with his dialogue), he was dead on!

*The opening scene. Pretty good, aside from Mulder's melodramatic corn.

*Skinner. Good, as always.

*Kersh and the Lone Gunmen. They were missed last episode. Marita was a good touch, too.

*Krycek. Lea played him a lot better this episode. I guess he has some bizarre interest in Spender (I think he's trying to play Spender as a loose cannon against the Syndicate, it didn't work).

*Mulder and Scully. This was a Mulder episode, really, though.

*The Ending. I gotta admit, I was wondering, "Are they really going to fry the Conspiracy?" That was one of the most suspenseful moments.

THE BAD
*I didn't care for the tag, with Spender and CSM. I would have really liked to see Spender taken CSM's old job (and perhaps do a reprise of his first smoke, from "Musings"). Of course, the CSM was predicted to be dead before. I can see next episode: "Agent Spender's body was never found, but he lost too much blood.."

*They crammed too much in the end, diddling around too much in the middle with characters that never took off, like Fowley.

THE MYSTERIOUS
*"Where's Alex Krycek?" cracked me up, for some reason. You kind of felt like they were gonna play the "Krycek's Bad" theme, and see him up to no good.

*Why was Krycek at Fort Marlene, anyway?

*Why are the Rebels portrayed as totally incompetent at times, then super killing machines the next?

*Just how many facial expressions of puzzlement and surprise can Spender provide in an episode?

*"Nothing more mysterious than your apparent lingerie fetish." That line was hilarious.

*CSM isn't Mulder's dad, obviously, and it doesn't look like he's Samantha's either, but he still could be.

*"This isn't right. Back. Back. Back! Back! Back!" I kind of felt like saying "Run, you idiots!" Maybe they could have had a gang war with the icepick devices.

Charles Cabe: I didn't think about that. Thanks for reminding me.
JEstes: Your first paragraph giving a synopsis of the conspiracy is the best and most concise I have ever read!

But all this black oil talk made me think of another question: when the Syndicate was first working on the bee experiment, didn't it concern Smallpox Eradication Protocol? Whatever happened to infecting people with smallpox? And why were they testing that in the first place?

Adrienne: In regards to your question about the bee/smallpox thing. I always figured it was some kind of preliminary test. The oil aliens wanted the conspirators to spread the alien virus by bee, but the conspirators weren't exactly sure they could do it at first, so they tested it out with bees that infected people with smallpox. When that worked, they produced the new bees with the alien virus inside.

In response to the question about the Consortium. They were ex state department employees who decided to go of on their own to do business with the aliens. I have a question maybe someone can answer for me When. did Maria get infected with the virus.

Bob--near the end of last season. Ratboy had rescued a Russian boy infected with the Black Oil and brought him back to the US. The boys facial openings were sewed up, a la the faceless rebels, to keep the Oil inside him. Maria was supposed to be minding the boy, but he managed to open his stitches and infect her.

Joel--you're right. The bees were originally infected with smallpox, so the Consortium could test them as carriers. The test started ahead of schedule when the bees escaped inside a post office.

NANJAO--all the big deaths (Spender, the Consortium, Cassandra) all took place off-camera. There's plenty of circumstantail evidence they're all dead but, since we didn't see it, it's not 100% confirmed. I'm willing to bet that some or all of these characters will return.

The episodes with Marita's infection are "Patient X" and "The Red and the Black".

REVIVALS: I don't think the Consortium will come back, if they do, they're going to be limited. Cassandra might come back, but I doubt it. The only way they could have survived is if the rebels spared a few (doubtful) or the Colonists arrived at the last second to help out their Syndicate friends.

Agent Spender...hmm...wait until next episode. However, even if he is alive, I don't know what he could do, since he resigned.

Humorous Thought: The CSM really wants a son that could respect him, which is why he leeches onto anyone that he feels could provide that love and respect (Spender and Mulder). So probably next episode, he'll be jammin' with Krycek. "Call me Daddy, Alex!"

In reponse to all the 'Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated' posts, I
would say that on the X-Files, you don't believe it 'til you see it, and even then,
you're free to doubt. Also, I see some new names. If y'all are new, welcome! If you
were anonymous before, nice to see you have names and are all figments of my
imagination. (I meant that exactly as I wrote

Nyla, thank you for your comments about my philosophical debate. I am not a viewer of "The Pretender" but I think that the debate is still relevant to this show. Aside from "Trust No One" and "Believe the Lie" I think CC wants us to ask ourselves what we would sacrifice to save humanity.

JEstes, the question comes back to why is Cassandra the "perfect" hybrid, and why do they behave as if she's the only one? In "Colony" we saw what seemed to be lots of "successful" hybrids (clones), the doctors, who were being systematically killed off by the Bountyhunter. The Bountyhunter was definitely a shapeshifter which for all intents and purposes is one of the faceless rebels (we are now lead to believe). If the Bountyhunter was killing them and he supposedly was part of the rebel group, wouldn't it make sense then that the "doctors" were all hybrids? They behaved and reacted as such. Why weren't they considered "successful"?

Here's something I thought of today. David Duchovney is 38-39 years old. Let's assume that Fox Mulder is approximately the same age. Judging Agent Spender's appearance, one could assume that his is also approximately the same age, perhaps a little younger. Cassandra Spender was initially abducted in 1973, or so they say. That would have made Jeffrey 13 years old or a little younger, at that time. We already know he has no recollection of his father and yet he kept the same last name and she too so that means there was no stepfather. Spender has been so unconvinced that his mother has ever been abducted, yet a 13 year-old boy has no recollection of his mother being mysteriously absent for a period of time? And if she was absent, who took care of the boy while she was gone? Certainly not his father! And if CGB Spender made provisions for the boy in his mother's absence, why hasn't this person spilled the beans? or has this person been eliminated also?

Likewise, isn't it coincidental that Papa Mulder's son and Papa Spender's son both grew up to be big, bad FBI agents? If the CSM was pulling the strings to get Jeffrey into the FBI how do we know that Jeffrey really didn't want to be an interior decorator or something? This is assuming that Jeff and the CSM have had no previous contact or interaction. If both fathers had more or less the same goal for their sons, it seems amazing to me that Spender, Sr., was able to manipulate his son's desitny without his son knowing about it.

As for the Consortium, we know that the CSM and Fowley got away. We also know that Krycek and Marita are still out there. We have bees and possilby the bee keeper in Tunisia, but is that really the only other place an apiary exists?

I agree also, we did not "see" the Constorium, et al., get torched so we don't know who really survived. We didn't really see Jeff Spender get shot so we don't really know if he survived. We have been fooled before by apparent killings. I'd say the Well-Manicured Man is history. The car explosion was pretty convincing.

As for Krycek, I think we are going to be fooled by him again. I'm not convinced what side of the fence he's on, and I'm referring to his loyalty to humanity and not his sexual orientation. He may be a good guy in disguise. I interpret his kiss to Mulder as "I'm with you, man. We're both fighting for the same thing. I'd like to see humanity survive as much as you do," but his hands are tied behind his back. Mulder doesn't have all the answers, and Krycek has the edge. He has a few more than Mulder does. I know we haven't seen the last of Krycek and I think he will surprise us all.

re philosophy: the board originally started out in ST:Insurrection board, and
people got tired of it. The Pretender board was willing to take us, though, so we
moved. I don't watch Pretender myself. If no one minds another philosophical
discussion here, I've certainly no objections.

re hybrids: The doctors and Samanthas were all clones, grown in test tubes.
Cassandra was the perfect one because she was the first adult human successfully
converted to hybridism, though how they did this I truly can't imagine.

re Spender: I have no idea, but it is my understanding, BTW, that Mulder is about
35. Spender I would guess is in his early thirties, if that.

re Krycek, otherwise known as MY FAVORITE GUY! : I'll post on him (probably
later, since we're getting ready to go) on the Krycek board, since this is getting s
large.

line

This miht have been mentioned already, but there's too much stuff to go through. What exactly was the point of shooting at the train?

mark, yeah, I was also wondering if Mulder's father was DEEP THROAT!
I'm so proud that I caught one that you caught!
whoopie!

I was wondering where Well-Manicured Man was in the flashback scenes.
Did they have no regard for the safety of the innocent engineer? Through their pointless firings, there were bulletholes that lined up perfectly with the engineers head.

I still would like to know what the difference is (from the alien's point of view) between a successful adult hybrid and a successfully immunized human: both are supposed to survive the black oil (although we haven't seen Cassandra infected yet, so maybe the aliens were hoaxing the Consortium and the hybridization process serves some other goal).

Regarding the hybridization of Cassandra: wasn't there a line about 'transfer of the alien genes' as being the basis of the process? This might be done with the same bee vector as the smallpox and black oil; perhaps with a tailored virus carrying the appropriate alien genes.

I double-checked, and I'm convinced more than ever that the creators have a low respect for our intelligence. I originally wondered if maybe the Deep Throat as Bill Mulder thing was a Luke/Vader thing. BUT--Mulder immediately identifies the man in that picture as his father! Hey, Fox, didn't you notice that for the year that Deep Throat was feeding you information? "Sure, dad, 'Trust no one', and by the way, who's that guy who's been living at our house?"

Unfortunately, I forgot to check the credits, and I've now *brilliantly* recorded over the episode. Can anyone with a clean copy check and see if the young Bill Mulder isn't played by the actor who played Deep Throat, NOT the actor who played Bill Mulder?

If so, it's a nit big enough to drive your mothership through.


Cancerman tells Fowler,"We have people missing. Where's Krycheck?" Note the plural on the first sentence--more than just Cancerman surived the holocaust in the hangar.

"Why does he keep calling him Cancerman?" Because CGB Spender "is an alias, one of many this man has used over the years." (Special Agent Dana Scully) This begs the question, why was Cancerman so freaked when Mulder called him CGB? It's just an alias, and further, an alias that leads to nowhere! I personally believe that recent events had completely thrown Black Lung Boy off track.

Hybrids: I support Nyla's hypothesis on the nature of the hybrids. Here's how it goes:

a. Purity control: used for the alien/human hybird experiments.
--also used to secretly devise a vaccine against the black oil

b. The alien/human hybrid experiments:

First, make some clone hybrids. Use these to build a database on alien/human hybrids

Second: Test the alien genome on abducted people with the goal of *converting* them into alien/human hybrids. This conversion process, in my opinion, is what the consortium was preparing to undergo in the hangar when the rebels struck.

Regarding aliens: all was clear until the alien rebel had his face mask morph out of existence. We have three (maybe two) groups of aliens (not including Lord Kimbote!)

1. the shapechanging aliens

2. the black oil aliens. They might also be the shapechanging aliens, in a handy "ready to assimilate" form

3. the faceless rebels. Try this--their masks may have some sort of limited shapechaning abilities. I mean, they look *exactly* like the originals, and they can talk when the aliens can't. Some sort of "spermask" would account for these abilities--and still let them bet ripped off whenever there's a fight.

(Sidebar: Isn't amazing that people fighting with the rebels alwyas know to rip off the mask--even clueless people like Spender? Is the face the first thing *you* go after in hand-to-hand? It reminds me of "Brimstone"--all of the damned know to go after the eyes, even though Our Hero had to be instructed to do so by the Devil. How did they know? TRTS!)

Could Eddie Van Blunhdt {Small Potatoes} Have a shape-shifting alien in his family tree

If he does, he seems to be the only one who's getting any.

I looked too, MM, the whole "deep throat" thing is annoying me to distraction. (I cut the end of the ep off!)<----dork
okay, I have a theory about the flag. maybe two.
does anyone remember the game, "Capture the flag"?
one thing I always wonder about with these aliens-take-the-earth-over stories is, ummm...how are all the other countries in the world dealing with this? Has any other country made a deal, or all we all pretty much &%*$ed?
my second thought, though brief and probably meaningless, was that the flag was indeed poorly folded and also looked old. Made me think maybe it came from an "important" military funeral, long ago....okay now I'm reaching.

Maybe they were given an old flag sloppily folded on purpose.

Have you all forgotten what Mulder's dad looked like? The guy in the flashback looked uncannily like him!

Like Mulder, or his father...

Operating from memory is really not my strong point, so let me put it bluntly: Was the young Bill Mulder played by Peter Donat (wh played the modern Bill Mulder), or by Jerry Hardin (who played Deep Throat)? Anyone, ANYONE, please check the show credits for those names.

I tried the official website, and discovered: a) they won't admit to having created anything past "S.R. 819," and b) the image maps are not for the small of patience or the slow of browser.

My dad didn't tape the credits, and even Tiny Dancer's not sure who played the
flashback Bill Mulder. ARRRGGH!
PS. I don't like the official site either, especially since they reformatted their
discussion board

(Mark makes an embarrased cough.) According to the Internet Movie DataBase, Peter Donat did indeed play the young Bill Mulder in both "Two Fathers" and "One Son." I consider IMDB to be a definitive source of all things filmed, so I grovel before their wisdom. It is SO hard to type from this position....

Confirmation from the episode appreciated, but apparently no longer necessary. Thanks for trying, but some people with a net are knocking at the door...

In the episode credits, Peter Donat is listed. Too bad. I was waiting for Jerry Hardin, Steven Williams, Sheila Larken, maybe just like all the regulars. And then at the end--"Alex Trebek", and "Governor Jesse Ventura".

We have another serious problem with the flashback to 1973. In "Musing of a CSM", when CSM (aka CGB Spender) assasinated Martin Luther King, Jr. (1968), he looked like Jeffry Spender (same actor). Now in the flashback to 1973, he looks like a young CGB (actor William Davis). That's a pretty big physical transformation in 5 years! Maybe he's a shapeshifting alien!

He's one of the 5(?) founders that are on Earth, he accidently fell into a tempral vortex and emerged in 1950's earth . Being an alien made him the ideal choice for a member of the consortium.

Actually, "Musings of a CSM" is almost nit-proof--if you assume the story is the self-aggrandizement of one man.

I thought of a big one. Is Fowler a part of the conspiracy, or not? If she is, she was a *little* one until two weeks ago, because CSM had to explain everything to her! She must have just let them tell her what to do without ever questioning *why*! That is, assuming all that unaccounted for time in Fowler's file (that Scully referenced) was work she was doing for the Syndicate.

I've noticed in my tape-watching of older eps of XF that Dana Scully's Mother has been played by two different and very different looking actresses......

Here is an inquiry that has yet to be asked. If the "faceless rebels" sought to eliminate Cassandra Spender and the alien/human hybrid program, then why in the world did they spare her life in the commencement to part one of this two-part saga? More importantly, why did the Syndicate not accept the "faceless rebels'" proposal regarding amalgamation of our species and their species in retaliation against the aliens to which the "black oil" (AKA Purity) hails? If these "faceless rebels" are, in fact, more advanced than us, then that alone would be more of a reason to partner up with them instead. Besides, it is not as if the Syndicate has not corroborated itself as being perfidious before in the past.
I currently possess a Homepage with information and content pertaining to The X-Files. I intend to add more MP3 files to it and a section that is resemblant to this message board. Does anyone know exactly how to provide a functional message board such as this upon one's Homepage? The message board is an invitation to all of you to present your theories, perspectives, etc., in regard to this entire alien invasion/colonization scheme.
An incomplete list of members of the Syndicate is as numerically proceeds:
1) Cigarette-Smoking Man/Cancer Man/Raul Bloodworth/C.G.B. Spender.
2) Well-Manicured Man (deceased).
3) Deep Throat (deceased).
4) Strughold.
5) William Mulder (deceased).
6) Alex Krycek (presumably).
7) Mr. X (presumably; deceased).
8) Marita Covarrubias.
9) Diana Fowley.
Has no one noticed the identicalness between >DianaDana< Scully. In fact, both names practically end with the suffix -ly! In other news, I implicitly list Strughold as being alive for one reason--William B. Davis (Cigarette-Smoking Man/Cancer Man/Raul Bloodworth/C.G.B. Spender) heralded him as being active during an Internet correspondence over at http://www.scifi.com/ Mr. Davis also appears to have a minor crush on the character of Special Agent Dana Scully.
P.S. I have been indicating as far back as last season how Mr. Carter ought to have most or all of the Syndicate members slain by a higher power. Perhaps he and I think alike.

No idea why Diana and Dana were enclosed within 's nor why the words Fowley and were curtailed, but I was basically highlighting Agent Fowley's and Agent Scully's first names.

I think that was deliberate on the creators' part to make Fowley the "anti-Scully"

Below is an excerpt from the official The X-Files website under its episode guide for "Two Fathers."
"...Back at the hospital, Cassandra enters the bathroom to smoke a cigarette. As she looks in the mirror, her face suddenly loses its shape. Cassandra screams. The female FBI agent assigned to protect her races to her aid. She assures Cassandra that she will be all right, as she is 'the one.' Cassandra stares at her, not comprehending. The female FBI agent reaches up to her own face and pulls back her flesh, revealing a male Faceless Alien beneath. Cassandra recoils in fear. Clad in the FBI agent's clothing, she flees to Mulder's apartment..."--The X-Files official website
Was this particular scene omitted at the last minute? Thank you.

More Syndicate members are as numerically proceeds:
1) Quiet Willy.
2) Black-Haired Man (deceased?).
3) Elder No. One (deceased).
4) Elder No. Two (deceased).
Who were these "Elders?" Was Well-Manicured Man an Elder as well? Did Cigarette-Smoking Man/Cancer Man/Raul Bloodworth/C.G.B. Spender, Marita Covarrubias, and Alex Krycek, to name a few, report to these Elders?
The Syndicate members' families were returned to them prior to the aliens' discovery of the successful alien/human hybrid. I thought Cigarette-Smoking Man/Cancer Man/Raul Bloodworth/C.G.B. Spender concluded his little story to Special Agent Fox Mulder by claiming they did what they did so that they would be returned to them--this being their family members. Please remain consistent, Mr. Carter.

It was definitely the Bill Mulder we all knew from before in the flashback seen but, among the crowd, did we get a glimpse of Deep Throat as well? It's only a second or two.

Oh, and don't forget--as members of the Conspiracy

Crew-Cut Man (deceased)
Grey-Haired Man
Alien Bounty Hunter (sort of)
Morris Fletcher and his MIB friends (sort of)
Luis Cardinal (deceased)
Paul Mossinger (sort of)
Commander Calvin Henderson
Chief Blevins (deceased)
AD Kersh (well, he knows CSM)
AD Skinner (not anymore, but he did know CSM)
Chief Joseph McGrath
Frank Druce
Roy Cohn (deceased)
J. Edgar Hoover (deceased)
Leamus (the putz from "The Pine Bluff Variant", probably CIA higher-up)
Dr. Al Kurtzweil (deceased, and sort of)
Dr. Ben Bronschweig (deceased)
Michael Kritschgau
Scott Ostelhoff
Babcock
Senior Agent

My The X-Files Homepage, which was puerilely developed for the fun of it, is located at http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/necronomicon/392/

If these "faceless rebels" are, in fact, more advanced… = If these "faceless rebels" are [in fact] more advanced... Typo, for there ought to be no commas.

I just saw this episode (so sue me) and it bothers me that in one scene Mulder is ready to waltz out with the Fowl One and in the next he's in a car with Scully, about to shoot bullets at a moving train. Did I miss a scene there or was it totally illogical?

D. Stuart: The Syndicate members' families were returned to them prior to the aliens' discovery of the successful alien/human hybrid. I thought Cigarette-Smoking Man/Cancer Man/Raul Bloodworth/C.G.B. Spender concluded his little story to Special Agent Fox Mulder by claiming they did what they did so that they would be returned to them--this being their family members. Please remain consistent, Mr. Carter.

Not at all. Their entire families were never taken. Each Syndicate member had to give up ONE family member--well, for some reason, CSM gave up his wife AND his son (as we later find out that Jeffrey was taken along with Samantha). But that aside, the families weren't taken as a whole. The family members we saw in the hangar were the elders' families who had not been taken but were preparing to be taken for the last time, just prior to Colonization.

Is the cure really a vaccine? I thought a vaccine was something you took to heighten your immune response so you wouldn't get a disease in the first place, not something you took to get rid of the disease after you had it.

There are active and passive vaccines: the active vaccine consists of almost-dead cells you are injected with before exposure so your own body produces the antibodies.
Passive vaccine is when you inject almost-dead cells into animals (horses, rabbits, pigs) and then extract the live antibodies, and inject them into your body after exposure.

Passive vaccine isn't as good as active, and not available for every disease, but in a pinch, better then nothing.

Now, I doubt Mulder's going to appreciate having a corpse down there when he moves back in…

Maybe they'll frame him for shooting Spender?

Mulder tells the nurse that his shoes are two sizes too small. He doesn't seem to be running in any pain.

I guess Mulder was just saying sth. to get her attention...

I also was wondering why the American Flag since it was hinted that the Consortium was made up of different "movers" like Strughold. So why not German/British/etc. flags thrown in, too? I guess it's because TPTB don't want to get in trouble showing the "surrender" of their flag to even a fictitious "conqueror."

First, I don't think it's meant as surrender, but as gift of welcome? Secondly, putting in other countries flags would'Ve been a nit because not every country has this immensly patriotic thing about their flag as the Americans.
If handing the flag over was meant as symbol of surrender, I wonder how the aliens knew what this meant?

For that matter, if the aliens are ready to give up one of their own children/embryoes to be experimented on (even if the little guy's dead - we don't know if the consortium got it alive) - why do they think human children would make good hostages? (And I'm a bit surprised that apparently not one of the men of the Consortium was unhappily married, or had brats, he was willingly fobbing off to the aliens without a further concern for them.)

Long time viewers of the various Trek series will know that to change a person completely, all you have to do is change some of their DNA. As near as I can figure, that's how this whole "alien hybrid" thing works--Krychek said they had all gone to "receive the alien genome." So, what, you get injected with the thing and suddenly you're half alien?

Um, Star Trek makes the mistake of equating "change of genotype" with "immediate change of phenotype". But changing the genome of an adult by injecting a virus is possible. Doctors are researching now how to use the right mix of retroviruses to target specific locations and replace a damaged part of the DNA with the correct one, to cure people with inherited diseases.

Man, that "vaccine" sure goes bad fast. Here's the scoop: the Russians infect Mulder, he gets the vaccine immediately, Mulder ok. Krychek' double-dealing gets Marita infected, they try the vaccine, not ok. To cover this nit, in the movie, CC throws in a line about how the vaccine needs to be administered within a certain amount of time. Mulder schleps *all the way out to the arctic* to administer the vaccine to Scully, not only is she fine, they practically wreck the entire ship!

The *only* way this works is if the vaccine is worthless after a certain amount of time (T), but extremely potent up until about T minus 10 seconds! Like I said, the stuff goes bad in a hurry!

First, proteins do decay over time, so unless the vaccine is a virus which lasts forever, this is plausible.
Secondly, Scully was infected with the oil-mutating-into-alien, so there was only a limited amount of time before the alien would've hatched. (I guess that's also the reason why the whole ship reacts to the vaccine - if the feeding tube connects to the rest of the frozen bodies, and it's like a hatchery, small amounts can affect baby aliens quite much.)
Marita was infected with oil-controlling-people, so the vaccine might have worked later. And since her eyes were clear, it seems to have worked - from what she said, her bad state was due to further experiments.

If the aliens have already manipulated our genes to the degree that we are compatible with their black oil, why should they wait 25 years for _humans_ to develop hybrids? Wouldn't their genetic science be more advanced than ours and get them the same result faster?

How do you know the black oil is compatible to human DNA because the alien gestates inside a human body? It doesn't need to convert the DNA, it can simply convert the mass (proteins, fat etc.) and build itself. Like a wasp that uses a poison to stupefy another insect and then lays its eggs inside. The eggs develop by feeding on the body of the stunned insect, but not by converting DNA.)

Spender has been so unconvinced that his mother has ever been abducted, yet a 13 year-old boy has no recollection of his mother being mysteriously absent for a period of time? ...
If the CSM was pulling the strings to get Jeffrey into the FBI how do we know that Jeffrey really didn't want to be an interior decorator or something? ...

I don't remember the dialogue of what Spender said first time about his mother's abductions, but maybe he's just in denial about *alien* abductions - similar to Mulder believing in "Paper Hearts" and the 2parter with the Moonshine kids dancing, that somebody else took Samantha.
Maybe that's also why he went to the FBI: he wanted to find out the truth, so he went into law enforcment, and CSM pulled some strings (left some brochures about the FBI on his desk, maybe), so Spender wound up in the FBI.

++++

Question: If Cassandra knows why she's important and mustn't survive (and who told her all that - the consortium doctors who were doing experiments on her?) - why doesn't she have the guts to kill herself, instead of asking everybody passing along? She is fit enough to walk around, and there are enough utensils around. She doesn't even grab a knife when in Mulders apt. (TPTB knew she would turn up later?)

Nyla: 10. Shirlyn, for something this important, wouldn't Strughold have flown in?
You would think so but he certainly wasn't there, nor was a replacement actor that looked like him there either.

S. Wong: So, the Consortium, family and friends will be injected with the vaccine. Then what?
No, the vaccine was developed on the side by the Russians and the Greys didn't know about it. The family members were suppose to become the hybrids but apparently Cassandra was the first successful to some standard we don't know about. Perhaps it was to look human but have internal alien physiology.

JEstes: As I understood it, the Consortium's deal with the alien invaders was this...
You got some but not all: The deal was the Colonists delay their invasion while the Syndicate creates a hybrid. There was also an exchange of family members for an alien embryo to assist in the hybridazation(?).

I clearly saw Alex's prosthetic arm in both this and the previous eps. In this one it's most noticable when he's at Fort Marline and carrying around a cell phone. The smallpox vaccine that Scully discovers was for tracking purposes, which is why Krychek's arm was cut off, and had nothing to do with hybrids or the black oil vaccine. The bountyhunters are not linked to the rebels, at least not the one who killed the clones and saved momma Mulder, because he was aligned with the Syndicate.

Matthew: Where has Marita been for the past year? And why is she in the makeup of a drug addict?
She's been at Fort Marlene getting used as a lab rat, as she states herself in the ep.

Ross: I still think there are more than two kinds of aliens here... The aliens in the movie were ferocious killers, bigger and uglier.
There's at least two types of aliens here but the "big uglies" are the same as the greys/colonists; that's just a post-gestation stage.

Mark: Man, that "vaccine" sure goes bad fast...
The vaccine initially tested on Marita wasn't the same one as the one Mulder received in Russia, and later Scully in Antarctica. The Russians developed the only working vaccine, which Krycek smuggles out, and Martia was injected with the second time which cures her.

Nyla: Cassandra doesn't *go* because she's an old lady whose body has been beaten up
and abused
True, but she's a hybrid now with regenerative capabilities. She doesn't need to drive in order to escape a room she is unrestrained in.

Nyla: The Consortium were going to be saved from the Black Cancer because they
were all going to get injected with the vaccine first.
The vaccine was not part of the deal with the aliens and was developed in secret; the Consortium's didn't even work. They would survive by being spared the black oil holocaust and turned into hybrids like Cassandra.

Adrienne: Everyone is patiently standing, the doors to the hangar open, and the one guy out of the Syndicate says something to the effect of "this isn't right; they haven't been contacted yet." Well, when in the heck *were* you going to contact them, buddy?
They were waiting until everybody arrived. Cassandra had just showed up, Krycek and Strunghold weren't there yet, and there was probably going to be some ceremony or briefing beforehand.

JEstes: Why is this a good deal for the aliens? [...] If the aliens have already manipulated our genes to the degree that we are compatible with their black oil, why should they wait 25 years
An excellent question! This whole "Project" was a farce from the beginning considering the aliens could invade any time they chose. Apparently these 'colonists' rely primarily on biological warfare to conquer other worlds, but compatability with our DNA makes no difference regarding the manner in which they were to colonize.

JEstes: What is the practical difference between a vaccine that protects against black oil infection and a genetic procedure that creates a hybrid that will survive infection?
The hybrid was part of the original deal with the Greys, one that the Syndicate didn't think would succeed, and the vaccine was developed in secret as a plan B if the aliens made other plans. The Consortium's vaccine didn't work, the Russian's did but they didn't want to share, so the only other way to survive in their mind was to keep the original deal they made with the Colonists. They offer similar protection against purity but have different purposes; would you want to be a hybrid or get injected with a vaccine?

Mark: Isn't amazing that people fighting with the rebels always know to rip off the mask--even clueless people like Spender?
I was wondering the same thing! That's not a normal way to defend yourself in a physical altercation.

This episode makes the close of "The Project" as we've known it until this point, and even with the show long over now there's still several unanswered questions and inconsistencies. It seemed like every time we came across a clone-hybrid they were misbehaving and the bountyhunter had to dispose of them. If the Syndicate authorized all these clones to further the hybrid program why didn't they keep better control over them?

After narrowly avoiding assassination, and obviously having his own agenda, why was Krycek welcomed back into the Consortium with open arms and not Marita who proved her trust? Other than the contrived way of keeping the character around this made no sense to me.

If the main reason the Syndicate aligned themselves with the Greys was survival, while at the same time delaying their invasion, why were they so quick to scoff at the idea of working with the rebels? The Colonists were obviously a bunch of push-overs anyway since they felt the need to make a deal with an inferior race and didn't monitor what was really going on very well. Sure it's been 25 years, and a great deal has been sacrificed since the deal was made, but a vaccine and an equally advanced alien race makes resistence possible and it's not even considered?