Let's start off with a little Freud:

The end of the film, has Simba climbing to the top of a long piece of granite that juts out over the savannah called ***Pride Rock*** of all things. He walks slowly to the top, the raindrops slowly falling down his face like sweat. He reaches the apex and gives a mighty roar. The lionesses respond. The next scene shows Simba with a cub.

So, class, what was that scene really about?

Well, the reports we've doubtless all heard about bits of this movie (won't post them--family site doncha know) seem to confirm that the people making it had a bit of an obsession. I frankly think Disney has been leaning too far in those kinds of directions quite awhile--only "Beauty and the Beast" of the recent ones I've seen have avoided any little problems. [nudge nudge]

I think I perfer Jung. Or Dr. Laura. But you've got a point. My best friend (who is
unbelievably, amazingly Christian-conservative) heard at church that Disney had just
canceled a movie called The Defloration of Three Teenage Girls. Ick. Double Ick. This is
getting worse than Mulder's personal habits

Actually, those dust clouds didn't say S-E-X (which, if you remove the hyphens, spells "sex"), they said S-F-X (which, hyphens removed, stands for "sound effects"). It was a tribute to the sound department.

Oh good.

Let's try to stay on nitpicking topics, not IS DISNEY PSYCHO topics, please.

Herr Moderator

Okey-doky. I've got one. Timone and Pummba teach Simba how to take it easy and life on grubbs and worms. Presumably this is how matures. Even in the unlikey event that he could survive this diet(he IS a lion after all) how strong would he grow up to be? Would he be in any physical shape to confront big bad uncle scar?

Mmm....tasty termites. Luv all that protein. (And anyway, bugs aren't nearly as cute as, say, zebras. Plenty of trauma potential with Mufasa's death here without killing furry animals who aren't villainous.)

Incidentally, several of the names are taken from Swahili. Can't guarantee I'm remembering all these right, but: Mufasa=king, Rafiki=teacher, Simba=lion (some African friends of ours had a cat named Simba years before this movie was a twinkle in Mickey's eye), and I think Nala=wife (though I'm not sure about that one).

Well, heck, I guess the Nala thing spoiled all the UST for any Africans watching!
Speaking of which, Bambi in Dutch means buck. I get a big kick out of all the people
naming their little girls Bamb

Well, without revealing my age this movie reminds me a lot of an imported japanese cartoon I used to watch as a child, called "Kimba the White Lion". I've heard in the rumour mill that Disney settled with the japanese company that owns the rights to Kimba..I'm not saying the disney stole the idea, only that if they weren't influenced by Kimba its a really big coincidence.

It was on channel 52 (in Los Angeles) right after Speed Racer.

And did it have a stupid theme song!

Super Dave had an elephant named Simba, and in a simpsons episode Krusty calls a tiger (or a lion) simba

>Okey-doky. I've got one. Timone and Pummba teach >Simba how to take it easy and life on
>grubbs and worms

I agree, a lion could not survive on this. A skunk would be in eaven though, but I would think the fat from them would hearm it soon.

>strong would he grow up to be? Would he be in any
>physical shape to confront big bad uncle scar?

I think Scar was in poor health or at best a weekling, or he would have murdered Moufassa in traditonal lion style rather then in cold blood.

I heard that during the sone Hakunat Matata were they teach Simba to eat bugs, There is one bug wearing a Mickey hat. I just heard this so don't quote me.

Here's something I observed while watching LK with my daughter for the umpteenth time; Supposedly "the lionesses do all the hunting". If this is the case then why is Mufasa teaching Simba how to pounce? Wouldn't that be "beneath" a future king? And isn't he good at fighting scar for someone with no fight training and a lifetime diet of bugs?

Zazu = "friend" or, in a different dialect, "beer". Really.

The Lion King is very heavily influnced by Kimba, The White Lion. Some would say its a compleate rip off.

A group of Anime people in Japan wrote a letter to Disney expressing there regret that Kimba wasn't credited in the movie as being the inspiration. That's all they wanted - a line that said 'inspired by Kimba The White Lion'. Disney, on the other hand, took this as a lawsuit and sent a flaming letter back.

I still think it says s-e-x:>

There dosen't seem to be a Banbi board, but I
found what I consider to be a pretty serious
error. Tward the end of the movie,after the forest
goes up in flames, the survivors take refuge on
an island. Look closly at the racoons. The baby
racoon that is being licked instantly "teleports" to the
other side of the screen, and the mother is still
licking the space where it was! I wonder
how this got by the animation checkers, and
the animators themselves.

I ment to say Bambi

Zazu was played by Roan(sp?) Atkinson, aka Mr. Bean.

I don't really think Kimba had much to do with the Lion King. Kimba was a little human in a lion suit, a really Goody Two Shoes character that insisted that all the predatory animals in his jurisdiction become vegetarians.

Purely carnivorous species CANNOT absorb nutrition from plant matter. I read an article where a fanatical vegetarian forced her cat to eat a vegetarian diet, and the poor thing became deformed and nearly died as a result.

Disney might have anthropomorphized the animals in The Lion King, but they were still more realistic than Kimba and his crew.

Also, where did that other cub come from. was Mufasta it's Father? It would have to be.

Aren't most pet foods just rice and corn anyway?
And is there any other kind of Vegitarian:-) I suupose the diffence is between Health reasons and ethical beliefs.

Thankyou for bringing up that little plot point, Matt! Yes! Mufasa was Nala's father! And, while we're on the subject, let's discuss this little love-connection that is Simba and his sibling. Oh, it's all so sweet when it's Elton John ballads and Benson annointing the future King, but...what about all of the other lionesses? They've got to have kids, right, to perpetuate the pride? So, Simba starts coming home late, maybe telling Nala he's got to work overtime...Nala starts to pretty herself up, in a desperate attempt to keep her man and avoid an appearance on Jerry Springer, meanwhile her self-esteem crumbles as her best-friend, her life's partner, the father of her child!, gets his kicks with everyone from her mother to (quite probably) his own.
This, friends, is the problem with anthropomorphising animals. They do icky stuff. Which, in the Animal kingdom may be all well and good, but give them friends, a monarchy, the voices of famous people, and feelings, and they might as well be freak-house hillbillies from that really disturbing episode of The X-Files.
Well, not on my watch, bub. I'm planning to form the "People Unanimously Mad aBout Anthropomorphism" league. We protest everything from "Black Beauty" - yeah, like a horse can really write! - to "ANTZ" - sorry, Woody, but no way is Sharon Stone ever yours for the winning! - in an effort to stamp out this scourge of decent-minded folk everywhere!
Wanna join?

And hey, Matt! I take exception to your vegetarian jibe, man! My kitty cats are always feasting on the tinned remains of beef and lamb (which, of course, is their food of choice when in their natural habitat), while I don't eat anything that once had a mother.
Fanatical? Me? Never!
Well, only about the accursed anthropomorphism of animals, anyway! (Fun with alliteration!)

Lovely Comments Rachel!!!!!!!! I liked that episode of the X-Files, the music was great , too. I remember Kimba, The White Lion, but do not remember his vegetarian preachings. For the truest(maybe worst?) case of anthropomorphism, rent Fritz The Cat, available at fine Adult Video Stores near you. *S*

James, sometimes you scare me.

Oh, and, hey, you did realise that I was joking about the anthropomorh issue, right?

Actually Hyhena's can hunt better than lions. And where did they all come from.

Usally the Lion would just kill the cubs of the other lions.

Actually Vultures have never harmed anything while eating :-)

Is there going to be a 'Tarzan' page going up soon?

I noticed that there was ant eaters in the animal pyramid during 'I can't wait to be king'. Little strange considering they're South American

That whole scene was strange. Surreal. I mean, okay, so, talking animals, not exactly the norm. But the weird colour shifts, the changing perspective, the varying amounts of dancing elephants - it all adds up to one hell of an odd incidence.

I'm telling you, anthropomorphism. Evil.

Also don't forget the oddity of an African animal not only speaking like a human but speaking English!

Anthropomorphism isn't totally evil, without we would have no cartoon animals, but then again I think it's going too far showing wild animals in a wild envoironment, acting like humans in the body of their species and speaking english, not to mention using English titles and names for relationships (ie Uncle Scar) and even having human like cerimonies.

For the "I just can't wait to be king" song, often songs in cartoons are like this and don't make sence.

How about referring to a Mandarin as a Baboon, and the so called 'baboon' speaking with a Jamacian accent?

Just a confirmation - there was a bug with the little Mickey Mouse hat. It was when Timon was singing 'Hakuna Matata', and reached into a tree with bugs pouring out of it.

I think that was supposed to be a South African accent. You'd have to ask Robert Guillame.

Great line... "They call me MISTER Pig" - Pumbaa

Okay, people, a little clarification: my anti-anthropomorphism trip? A joke. A joke, I tell you!
As a long time fan of such talking animal masterpieces as "Kimba" and "Yogi" and even "Scooby Doo", I don't have a bad word to say about animals chattering away in human languages and getting married and stuff.

I think Raphael, of TMNT fame (but the cartoon Raph, not that sulky movie one) summed this debate up best in an episode where a visitor came through a trans-dimensional portal.

"He's a medieval samurai rabbit from another reality - so, of course, he speaks English!"

Or something to that effect.

Dear Mr. Mike Moderator, can we please have a Tarzan board up for the Disney film, I have plenty of nits for it.

I'm the moderator in these here parts now. And sure.

Your the moderator in these parts are you? Well this bulletin board ain't big enough for the both of us! :-)
Thanks for the Tarzan board, Murray.

Concerning the weirdness of "I just can`t wait to be king": The crocodiles/alligators seemed very badly drawn compared to everything else.

To those wondering whether it says S-E-X or S-F-X, I thought I'd throw this, from the Urban Legends Referenc Pages into the melting pot:

Claim: The letters S-E-X are formed by a swirling cloud of dust in The Lion King.
Status: Undetermined.

Synopsis: About halfway to three-fourths of the way through the film, Simba, Pumbaa, and Timon are lying on their backs, looking up at the stars. Simba arises, walks over to the edge of a cliff, and flops to the ground, throwing up a cloud of dust. Eddies of dust form and dissipate in the roiling cloud, and at one point the various curves and angles in these eddies appear to form the letters S-E-X. (You have to incline your head slightly to the left to see the letters as the dust drifts to the left-hand side of the screen.) It takes a bit of persistence to see specific letters in the shapes formed by the swirling dust clouds, even when the video is played in slow motion.

Whether the image of the word "SEX" was deliberately planted in this scene or is merely a product of the power of suggestion is unknown. The letters seem readily apparent to those who know what they're supposed to be looking for, but persons unfamiliar with the rumor rarely make them out even after being told to look for a word in the still-frame images. The generally accepted explanation is that the letters were slipped in by a special effects group (to form the abbreviation "S-F-X").

Origins: A 4-year-old boy from New York (or Louisiana), viewing the video with his head tilted to the left, supposedly noticed the appearance of the letters S-E-X and told his mother (or aunt) about it. (How a mere 4-year-old could both spell and understand the significance of the word "sex" remains unexplained. When you want to charge a huge corporate conglomerate with slipping nasties into its supposedly wholesome children's films, however, it's best to pretend an unwitting child made the discovery. This method increases the outrage factor -- if a 4-year-old found the word "S-E-X" in a video all by himself, why, then anybody's child might see it, too.) His mother (or aunt) in turn notified a religious organization called the American Life League, who claimed this was yet another occurrence of Disney's deliberately inserting hidden images into their animated films. The American Life League, which had already been boycotting Disney films since the previous April, made this rumor the highlight of their September 1995 publicity campaign against several Disney videos allegedly containing "sexual messages."

The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lionking.htm
Please use this URL in all links or references to this page

Sources:
Bannon, Lisa. "How a Rumor Spread About Subliminal Sex in Disney's 'Aladdin'."
The Wall Street Journal. 24 October 1995 (p.A1).

Goodykoontz, Bill. "3 Letters in Disney Spell 'SIN'."
The Arizona Republic. 7 September 1995 (p. C1).

Horowitz, Rick. "What Would Mickey Say?"
The Post and Courier (Charleston, SC). 11 September 1995 (p. A7).

Shull, Richard K. "From the Sublime to the Subliminal."
The Indianapolis News. 12 September 1995 (p. A9).

Smith, Russell W. "Sex Seen (by Some) in Films by Disney."
Austin American-Statesman. 8 September 1995 (p. D1).

Unsigned editorial. "'Filth' Found in Disney Movies Is a Stretch of the Imagination."
Omaha World-Herald. 20 September 1995 (p. 20).

Unsigned editorial. "'Lion King' Cops Need to Get a Life."
Wisconsin State Journal. 11 September 1995 (p. A7).

I know where you got that from! Copy and paste, eh?

That's why I prefaced my comments with "To those wondering whether it says S-E-X or S-F-X, I thought I'd throw this, from the Urban Legends Referenc Pages into the melting pot:" and also provided the URL in the copy so people would know the source of the material. It's not a huge secret.

We wathced this movie in Spanish class today, dubbed in Spanish… I have absolutely NO idea what was going on, but oh well. We did notice a few nits, though!

Number one, was Scar trying to kill Mufasa or Simba? It seems like a rather elaborate plot that may not have even worked if it was really meant to kill Mufasa in the first place. I mean, Mufasa might have been able to climb up on his own. He might not have been able to get there in time. I think Scar might have been trying to get them both, but he was really hoping for Mufasa to die. If Simba died, he could have set himself up as heir to the throne and found another way to dispose of Mufasa. But of course, this is Disney, where coincidence makes the world go round.

Number two, how did Simba get to Pride Rock so fast going across the desert? And how did Nala catch up to him when he had such a huge head start? And how did Timon and Pumbaa show up not thirty seconds after Nala, when I would bet money that meerkats and worthogs would make worse time than a lion?

Number three, how is it that the RIVER dries up because Scar is king?

Number four, isn't it a bit odd that lightning manages to hit in EXACTLY the right spot to start a brush fire, when there is a MUCH TALLER Pride Rock RIGHT NEXT to the dried out plants that it hits, and it would seem logical that it hit Pride Rock instead and all. But this is Disney, and they like their sudden coincidences.

Number five, isn't there an awful lot of volcanic activity in the cave where the "be prepared" song is done? And how does the column that Scar is on rise so smoothly through natural activity? And is it just our class, or is there heavy Nazi symbolism when the hyenas are goose-stepping past Scar, who's alone on a big raised platform?

Best moment: ĦMufasa! *laughing* ĦOtra vez! ĦMufasa! *falls down laughing* ĦOtra vez! ĦMufasa! *all three hyenas roll around on the ground laughing.*

Sorry Chris. I posted that before I noticed it.

Matthew-

I remember watching Raiders of the Lost Ark in Spanish class many years ago. The evil German henchman comes into Marion's bar and says, "Buenas noches, Freulein (sp?)"

1. Scar was trying to kill both of them. Remember, when Simba survives, he sends the hyenas out to kill him.

2. We don't really know how far the jungle is from the pridelands. It couldn't have been too far as Little Simba made it out far enough in the desert for Timone and Pumbaa to find him. And the jungle was close enough for Nala it to be part of Nala's hunting grounds.

3. I'm not so sure that the river dries up *because* of Scar. Perhaps Scar just happened to take over during the dry season. It's possible the pride left Pride Rock each year during this season. But Scar, being the stubborn and wasteful fellow that he is, decides to stay.

4. Lightning doesn't always strike the highest object in the area. Otherwise, fewer people would be struck by lightning. But, yes, the lightning strike is very convenient.

5. Yes, there is some Nazi symbolism during "Be Prepared." Check out Scar's shadow for an instant it looks like the silohette of a bird of prey.

But actually, there is LOTS of symbolism throughout the movie. There's the Freudian stuff I mentioned early on in the board. Also, there's a lot of Circle of Life stuff going on. Simba is shown running into the setting sun (circle). And Scar sings in front of a crescent moon (an incomplete circle). And the sun sets when Mufasa dies. And it rises when Simba returns. There's also some Christianity thrown into the mix with the son of the king "dying" and coming back to life. When Nala, Timone, and Pumbaa look for Simba, the babboon says they won't find him here, which is a little like the angel in Christ's tomb.

Let's see if 5 years or experience and 2 years of TLK-L activity can answer some of these. *g*


He reaches the apex and gives a mighty roar. The lionesses respond. The next scene shows Simba with a cub.


You should have heard the jokes on the list about THIS one. No comment. *g*


My best friend (who is
unbelievably, amazingly Christian-conservative) heard at church that Disney had just
canceled a movie called The Defloration of Three Teenage Girls.


Err, yes. And in Aladdin, there really /was/ a "good teenagers take their clothes off" message. Ahem. Some common sense plese. :)


Actually, those dust clouds didn't say S-E-X (which, if you remove the hyphens, spells "sex"), they said S-F-X (which, hyphens removed, stands for "sound effects"). It was a tribute to the sound department.


Opinions clash. Most believe it said SFX [special effects], some think it said SEX [if it did, it was not management approved], but having seen an Email to the person responsible for that scene [someone on the list sent him a private mail and posted the reply later], the author denied everything and also commented that runours like that almost got him fired. Given the strict rules Disney has, I doubt he'd take the risk of doing such a thing [if you think Gestapo was bad, well, Disney is worse].


Timone and Pummba teach Simba how to take it easy and life on grubbs and worms. Presumably this is how matures. Even in the unlikey event that he could survive this diet(he IS a lion after all) how strong would he grow up to be? Would he be in any physical shape to confront big bad uncle scar?


Who ever said he continued to live of grubs afterwards? He could have scavenged until he was old enough for small prey. We don't know what happened during the time of his exile.


Incidentally, several of the names are taken from Swahili. Can't guarantee I'm remembering all these right, but: Mufasa=king, Rafiki=teacher, Simba=lion (some African friends of ours had a cat named Simba years before this movie was a twinkle in Mickey's eye), and I think Nala=wife (though I'm not sure about that one).

Names and meanings. The ones without translations have no translations, are just names.
Banzai [Skulk, Lurk]
Ed
Kiara
Mufasa
Nala
Pumbaa [Simpleton]
Rafiki [Friend]
Sarabi [Mirage]
Sarafina
Scar
Shenzi [Uncouth]
Simba [Lion]
Timon
Zazu

If I remember correctly, Mufasa was an old king of an African country [cannot remember which] and that was the inspiration for him. Scar's original name was Taka [trash], but got changed during one of the script revisions.
And Nala is an English name. Well, a proper name at any rate, I have yet to meet someone named Nala. I do know a few Simba's though.


Well, without revealing my age this movie reminds me a lot of an imported japanese cartoon I used to watch as a child, called "Kimba the White Lion". I've heard in the rumour mill that Disney settled with the japanese company that owns the rights to Kimba..


Hm. Flame question this one. I've seen Kimba quite a bit before TLK and personally fail to see ANY resemblance at all, except for the species and the name. BTW, Kimba = dungheap in Swahili. IMO, Kimba to TLK is what ATI is to GeForce. Next to the main character being a lion, I fail to see /what/ they could have cloned.


I think Scar was in poor health or at best a weekling, or he would have murdered Moufassa in traditonal lion style rather then in cold blood.


Non cold-blooded murder? Interesting theory, I must admit. :)
Sibling lions rarely kill each other though, they usually live together for a little while after getting exiled from the tribe, forming a coalition [just like male cheetahs without a territory] then go seperate ways, perhaps getting their own prides.


Here's something I observed while watching LK with my daughter for the umpteenth time; Supposedly "the lionesses do all the hunting". If this is the case then why is Mufasa teaching Simba how to pounce? Wouldn't that be "beneath" a future king? And isn't he good at fighting scar for someone with no fight training and a lifetime diet of bugs?


Male lions do hunt, they're just no good at it. *g*
But they have to be able to hunt, or else they would not survive the exile years. And given Scar's physical condition, I do not think it would take much to beat him. And he /did/ give a good struggle at that.


Zazu was played by Roan(sp?) Atkinson, aka Mr. Bean.


http://www.lionking.org/scripts/Script.txt
At the top of it you have the complete description of the characters, their names, translations and voice actors. BTW, Madge Sinclair, the voice of Sarabi died soon after TLK was completed. That is probably the reason Sarabi was taken out of SP.


Thankyou for bringing up that little plot point, Matt! Yes! Mufasa was Nala's father!


There is no canon info on this and Disney refuses to give the answer, but it could also have been Scar [any male of the tribe is optional to be a father of any of the cubs] or a rogue male [a common thing with lion tribes. There are even tribles of lionesses, that only let males near when mating time is near].


Actually Hyhena's can hunt better than lions. And where did they all come from.

Usally the Lion would just kill the cubs of the other lions.

Actually Vultures have never harmed anything while eating :-)

1. Semi-true. They're both excellent hunters. :)
2. Well, this can happen after a lion takes over a pride. He kills the foreign cubs to make the lionesses come into heat again, thus spreading his own genes. It does to always happen though, if the lionesses manage to keep the cubs safe for a couple of days, he will leave them alone- the lionesses start producing phermones that cause the males to become timid kitty cats, thus leaving the cubs alone.


I noticed that there was ant eaters in the animal pyramid during 'I can't wait to be king'. Little strange considering they're South American

That whole scene was strange. Surreal. I mean, okay, so, talking animals, not exactly the norm. But the weird colour shifts, the changing perspective, the varying amounts of dancing elephants - it all adds up to one hell of an odd incidence.


Hm. Would have to look the first one up, but I think I did see African ant eaters. Need to check. On the HM thing though, that sequence represents the mind of a young cub, so naturally it would look something like that. All animals together, bright colours, singing. Not necessarily everyone's cup of tea, but it's there. *g*


For the "I just can't wait to be king" song, often songs in cartoons are like this and don't make sence.


Cub's mind. Makes it all fall together IMHO. :)


Just a confirmation - there was a bug with the little Mickey Mouse hat. It was when Timon was singing 'Hakuna Matata', and reached into a tree with bugs pouring out of it.


Read about that also, but failed to find it myself. Also, anyone I asked couldn't manage it either and those were the people that actually saw where the missing frame from the fire animation at the finish was missing from. :)


Concerning the weirdness of "I just can`t wait to be king": The crocodiles/alligators seemed very badly drawn compared to everything else.


The looked MUCH better in SP. You decide which movie was better. :p


[NOTE: Having replied to the message quoted below, I forgot there was a reply under it, already stating all I've said. And no, I will not erase 15 minutes of typing because of it. ;]

=----------------------------------------------=


Number one, was Scar trying to kill Mufasa or Simba?


Both. Kill the king AND his successor.


Number two, how did Simba get to Pride Rock so fast going across the desert? And how did Nala catch up to him when he had such a huge head start? And how did Timon and Pumbaa show up not thirty seconds after Nala, when I would bet money that meerkats and worthogs would make worse time than a lion?


He starts running in the evening and arrives while it is still day. So it took him the whole night and day, if not more.
For Nala, Simba might have taken a nap when traveling. Nala, T&P didn't need to, they slept through the night anyhow. Still, nothing sure. For all we know they ran for 3 months. ;)


Number three, how is it that the RIVER dries up because Scar is king?


There's a thing called the dry season in Africa. *g*
And killing any prey left is usually not a good way of making a living.


Number four, isn't it a bit odd that lightning manages to hit in EXACTLY the right spot to start a brush fire, when there is a MUCH TALLER Pride Rock RIGHT NEXT to the dried out plants that it hits, and it would seem logical that it hit Pride Rock instead and all.


Why would a rock attract lightning? If it had any metal deposits yes, but otherwise... Still, it could happen and it gave a good effect. Why fight it? :)


Number five, isn't there an awful lot of volcanic activity in the cave where the "be prepared" song is done? And how does the column that Scar is on rise so smoothly through natural activity? And is it just our class, or is there heavy Nazi symbolism when the hyenas are goose-stepping past Scar, who's alone on a big raised platform?


Symbolism lives! *g*
It was a parody on the Nazis. Either that or a symbolic thing, but you'd have to ask Disney.


For anything else, this is a good place to look for first.
http://www.lionking.org/faq
And the Swahili online dictionary:
www.yale.edu/swahili/

Also, songs in the movie itself were in Zulu, not Swahili, in case anyone tries to translate them again. Same thing in TLKoB, Zulu.

Err... I forgot the thing used HTML tags, so it looks a bit confusing. I used the brackets in question to quote and unquote and now they're gone. Oh well, at least only the "q" "/q" were erased, not the actual quotes.

I appologize for the inconvenience.

Unciaa, did you actually read all the previous posts before posting?

No, all the messages I quoted were made up. Any resemblance to actual messages is purely coincidental.

Please give Aladdin a little credit and listen closer. He says to the tiger "Good Kitty, take off and go." Why they would decide to put a sentance about teenagers taking off their clothes in a Disney movie is something that wouldn't occur anyway.

I believe he was joking, and yes, I've heard of that urban legend; it's at www.snopes.com

I've heard that TLK was based on "Hamlet" -- but with a somewhat happier ending.

Yes, it is. Scar = Claudius, Simba = Hamlet and Mufassa = Hamlet Sr.

---

Quote:

My best friend (who is
unbelievably, amazingly Christian-conservative) heard at church that Disney had just
canceled a movie called The Defloration of Three Teenage Girls.

---

TCapp: I've heard that TLK was based on "Hamlet" -- but with a somewhat happier ending.
Luigi Novi: I myself saw it as one part Hamlet, one part Bambi, but it was ripped off more from Kimba. I mean, c'mon, Kimba/Simba? An uncle lion with a SCAR on his face?

Disney: The animation, and the bad Family live action films, which always find a new way to bomb
Touchstone: Produces everything Disney dosen't want it's name associated with, but is willing to pay for. Usually films with violence and/or sex

Not quite. Disney is both the corporate name of the company and a label that goes on the kiddy films that it makes. Non-kiddy films are released under the Touchstone label. (i.e. Pearl Harbor, Mission to Mars) Basically the same kind of stuff that Columbia-Tristar or Paramount makes.

Miramax: Produces stuff Disney wouldn't touch with a fifty foot pole.

Not quite. Miramax was an independent company before Disney bought it. Today they still produce films separate from Disney. In fact Miramax's corporate HQ is in New York, not on the Disney lot in California. On the production end Miramax operates basically as a separate company with a big financial backer (Disney). Of course as the financial backer (Disney) can exercise the kind of veto power that anyone who controls the money can exercise. But Miramax's day to day operations are handled by a completely different group of people than those who run Disney/Touchstone. Don't forget that Miramax also produced the critically acclaimed kiddy film Spy Kids and the blandly inoffensive She's All That & The English Patient and jointly produced (with New Line Cinema) The Lord of the Rings trilogy. On the distribution end, Miramax's films are distributed through Disney's distributor Buena Vista, as are the films for every company that they own.

The reason "Dogma" took so long to release is that Disney wanted nonthing to do with the film.

You are correct in that Disney made Miramax dump the film because they were afraid of protest from the Catholic League and that idiot William Donahue but (hate to nitpick here) the dumping and subsequent pickup by Lion's Gate only pushed the release date back by about a month and a half. Kevin Smith had said from the beginning that it would come out in October 99. He didn't want to release in the summer 99 because he was afraid that all the fan boy geeks would be seeing Star Wars: Episode I for a 5th time rather than his movie.

The Emperor's New Groove took ages to come out because it kept being back burnered because of more promising productions coming through the pipeline, & also because new production staff kept being assigned. One of them was quite late to notice that one of the characters names was something dodgy in Japanese, like you do.

Thanks for the Info. I was under the impression of a lot of Smith fanatics who cried with every second their master's films aren't released that it was artifically delayed for years. Oh well, the theology of Dogma provides nitpicking material for centuries.

Brian Fitzgerald is right about the Disney-Miramax setup. The Weinstein brothers (Harvey and Bob) are basically East coasters, so the company I work for handles a lot of the screenings for their movies, at which they're often present. We usually do research screenings in northern NJ where I live, and some rare occasions, we'll even have to go further north to upstate NY or elsewhere. When we did Spy Kids, for example, we actually screened it (and we had to recruit for it) up in Connecticut, where Harvey Weinstein lives. I'm not sure why it had to be done there, (since Harvey wasn't present at that screening, but Robert Rodriguez was--perhaps Rodriguez wanted it there), but it is strictly an East Coast thing.

Football (Saakur) related observation which people in the UK might appreciate:

Our local radio station always seems to poke fun at the fact that at the opening of the film, the African singer appears to yell out the name of Arsene Wenger, the current Arsenal FC manager ("Aaaaaaaaarsene Vengerrrrrr").

erm, I know this subject hasn't been mentioned for a while, but... Mufasa was not Nala's father, nor was Surabi (sp) her mother. I don't know where this idea came from, but during the bathing scene, both Simba and Nala's mothers are shown. And they are most deffinetly separate.

I don't think anyone said that Simba and Nala had the same mother. It's only been said that they must have had the same father. There wasn't any scene which showed Nala's father... in fact, we don't see any other male lions, except for Scar.

As for where this idea came from: the animal kingdom. That's the way it works in lion prides.

Well, personally, I don't see why not showing Nala's father would mean that Mufasa is her father; that's a non sequitur. Given that among lions, adult males are the one member of a "family" that do not stay close with the pryde, this makes sense. The only reason, in fact, that Mufasa and the adult Simba eventually do stay with the pryde is because the nature of the story requires it.

I find it hard to believe, moreover, that the creators intended Simba and Nala to be half-siblings. This would not only be very un-Disney-like, but my understanding is that the genetic abnormalities that result from incestuous procreation among humans are also present in cats and dogs, which would mean Kiara would end up like that recurring character Rachel Dratch plays on Saturday Night Live (as in the sketch depicting Angelina Jolie and her brother James Haven's lovechild a few years back).

Of course they didn't intend for them to be half-siblings. It's just an amusing item to speculate about because in the real world: the dominant male in a pride considers all the females "his." Since Simba and Nala are the same age, the chances are high that Mufasa sired both. Lions are monogamous for short periods of time (when the female is in heat).

As rachgd stated in an early, early post: "This, friends, is the problem with anthropomorphising animals. They do icky stuff. Which, in the Animal kingdom may be all well and good, but give them friends, a monarchy, the voices of famous people, and feelings, and they might as well be freak-house hillbillies from that really disturbing episode of The X-Files."

It's like Simba subsisting on bugs and grubs... it's all well and good in a movie, but in the real world, Timon and Pumbaa would have been appetizers long before Nala showed up.

Ah, I get it. Thanks for the clarification.

Darth Sarcasm: It's just an amusing item to speculate about because in the real world: the dominant male in a pride considers all the females "his."
Luigi Novi: I thought that the only males in a pride were the children, and that mates do not stay with it?

Most of the males in a pride are the children, but there is one dominant male who protects the pride. Of course, his dominance usually only lasts for two years or so when another male (either one of the new adults or a nomadic lion) defeats him.

Yep, Darth's got it right - lion prides, like horse herds and a number of other animal groupings, are structured around the harem model.

Basically: Dominant male protects lionesses, is the only one allowed to mate with them; his women do the hunting and bring back the meat (he always gets first pick).
Male cubs leave to form prides of their own when they come of age, usually by challenging older dominant males.

All of which is a kinda long-winded way of saying that yes, Simba and Nala are half-siblings, which in the lion world wouldn't matter because Simba would be long gone. In the Disney world, Nala's patronomy (is that the word?) is carefully underplayed, and her mother prominently featured, so as to fudge the point for anthropomorphized sensibilities.

Patrimony.


And thanks, kerrie.