This movie is absolutely AMAZING.

Now, this may sound un-humble, but I saw the endings for "The Sixth Sense" and "Unbreakable" coming, and in the first case, I figured it out at the very beginning of the movie...but I never expected the ending in "Se7en."

I was also SHOCKED and AMAZED at who played the killer...I don't want to give it away, but it's someone you would never expect, and someone who normally doesn't do this kind of movie. And someone who did a great job.

But it's not for the squeamish.

SPOILER WARNING!!! Go away now if you haven't seen this film, but plan to!

(Oh, and thanks, by the way...I didn't mean to sound rude!)

I kind of figured this film out at the point the killer lets Brad Pitt's character go in the rainy alley. I said to the screen "He's after you. Get your wife out of town, 'cause she's pregnant...but...you don't know that yet. Oh, I can see where this is going to go." Turns out I wasn't quite on the mark (there were still a few surprises), but the wife certainly did meet with a very nasty fate. Speaking of fate, Pitt's character's was a surprise!

The acting was the film's saving grace, in my opinion, but boy, is this a depressing film! Not for the squeamish as Mike Ram pointed out, but also not for those who like uplifting endings.

Great line (I may not get it quite right, because I haven't seen this film in a few years) when they find a dead dog at the killer's "showdown" place: "I didn't do THAT!"

SPOILER OVER! You can come back now. :-)

I was also SHOCKED and AMAZED at who played the killer...I don't want to give it away, but it's someone you would never expect, and someone who normally doesn't do this kind of movie. And someone who did a great job.

You'll notice that his name does not appear in the opening credits or on the poster art. Origionaly he was to get co-star billing on the promo material untill the actor requested to only be credited in the end. He did that because if you know he's in the movie but we don't meet him in the first half the whole audience realises that he must be the killer and waits for him to show up.

-If John Doe really wanted all the seven deadly sinners dead, why is Mills alive at the end?

-And why is the lust victim the prostitute? Shouldn't it be the guy who wants her services?

-Doe arrives at the police HQ all bloodied. Did he really travel around town like that, without anyone noticing? No one at the shipping place? This town must really be apathetic.

Showing up at police HQ all bloodied... I can't BELIEVE I missed that! (Missed the nit, that is.) Here goes an attempted anti-nit...
Maybe he wore his coat all the way there, and doffed it just outside the station.

I loved this movie...saw it first in the theater and then at home (with the lights off during a really windy night). I just about peed myself when the guy who has been starved starts coughing. And the ending...it totally caught me by surprise. I'm not a big fan of Brad Pitt (after wasting my $$ for "Joe Black") but he was excellent in this flick. Morgan Freeman, as always, was excellent.

Mike Ram: If John Doe really wanted all the seven deadly sinners dead, why is Mills alive at the end?
Luigi Novi: Perhaps turning his wife into human PEZ dispenser was punishment enough?

SPOILER WARNING:
As for the killer, when he calls his apartment phone to talk to Mills and Somerset, and we heard his voice, I SWEAR I said to myself, "Weird. It sounds just like Kevin Spacey. But it can't be him, because he wasn't in the credits or anything, so it must be just me." But lo, and behold, it's HIM at the end!!
END SPOILER WARNING.

And isn't this flick more of a Thriller than a Drama?

-If John Doe really wanted all the seven deadly sinners dead, why is Mills alive at the end?

I think John Doe says to Mills something like "I envy you" and "make me envy" and by the end of the conversation, Doe is dead, so all the deadly sinners are dead.

-And why is the lust victim the prostitute? Shouldn't it be the guy who wants her services?

I went to Catholic School and the nuns were always talking about how if a woman causes a man to feel the sin of envy then it is really her sin. Since Doe seems to be really into Bible interpretation, then that is probably why he decided to kill the prostitute instead of the guy.

And isn't this flick more of a Thriller than a Drama?

This movie was totally a thriller and one of the best movies I've ever seen!

-If John Doe really wanted all the seven deadly sinners dead, why is Mills alive at the end?

I think John Doe says to Mills something like "I envy you" and "make me envy" and by the end of the conversation, Doe is dead, so all the deadly sinners are dead.
But Mills is the vengeance guy, and he ends up living.


This may sound kind of sick, but if i were mills and that guy had done what he did with my wife, i would've made his death a lot slower. Hypothetically.

Oh yeah, absolutely. I'd've made Kevin Spacey's character suffer a long, slow, agonizing death. Something like skinning him alive, or chopping off various body parts a little at a time. Ever get the feeling I've put a little too much thought into this?

"I like to watch." - Chauncy Gardener

Perhaps John Doe figured Mills might kill himself after killing him.

I think if I were Mills and had lived through the gruesome murder of my wife and unborn child, suicide would definitely be a high consideration.

So just how long where Mills, Somerset, and John Doe driving around? Last time I checked, they're aren't any deserts around the New York area.

of course we are never told that they are in New York. They are just in an unnamed city.

I've heard that it was filmed in Seattle, couldn't that be the setting?

I don't know much about the geography of Seattle but I think that was the point of not naming the city, so that they could have any geography that they wanted.

This was filmed in two or three locations. Philly and Cali somewhere, which is where the desert comes in at least, but mostly Philly I believe. IMO this movies offers more appeal to profiling than the Tom Harris series.

John Doe didn't walk around town all bloody, he rode a cab to the PD, and cab drivers are certainly apathetic, like the guy who was running that brothel or whatever it was. Speaking of which, I think I would rather be shot then penetrate a woman with a bladed dildoe.

Somerset was kind of the old school cop while Mills was the enthusiastic younger one. Is this movie implying that newer generations of cops are less educated and more egotistical?

The FBI really does keep track of library books checkouts.

Doe could've worn gloves in the cab, and taken them off and discarded them right before entering the station.

The movie could've been implying that Somerset was simply more measured and calm due to his age and experience. Even if Mills was depicted to be less educated or egotistical (and I don't recall this impression), that might just have been Mills, and not his entire generation.

I think he had gauze on all of his fingertips while in the cab. I only mentioned that because somebody was surprised that he could go around town covered in blood and nobody notice.

The question concerning the two detectives was raised because I was curious to know if that was what we were supposed to believe. Getting frustrated over reading a couple lines of Dante and buying Cliffs Notes doesn't necessarily mean he's less educated, just completely clueless about this particular case. Even today most police departments still do not require college degrees to become an officer, though if you have one it certainly helps.

Would John Doe be considered Somerset's nemesis? They both have basically the same outlook on society, they just chose to operate in it opposingly.

inblackestnight: I only mentioned that because somebody was surprised that he could go around town covered in blood and nobody notice.
Luigi Novi: Well, it's New York, isn't it?

There's a snarky comment about New Jersey somewhere in there, but I don't think I'm witty or mean enough to find it.

Actually Luigi, I think the movie was filmed in Philly, with the desert scenes in Cali, but I'm not positive about that. It probably wouldn't matter which city it is unfortunately.

I'm pretty sure it takes place in an unnamed city. And strangly enough one with lots of rain but a desert a few hours drive away.

It's true the city is never mentioned by name in the movie, but it had to be filmed somewhere. I think all the license plates were removed for the movie but the emblem on the helicopter at the end is LAPD I believe

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quote:

I'd've made Kevin Spacey's character suffer a long, slow, agonizing death. Something like skinning him alive, or chopping off various body parts a little at a time.

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Well, this movie came out about twenty years before the truth about Kevin Spacey was revealed.