Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie! Love This Movie!

It wasn't as good as Chasing Amy.

It was way fu**ing better than Chasing Amy dude!

Alantis Morissete is not God, the universe is not that badly designed.

This movie has gone onto my top ten list because it had so much good stuff in it.
Great lines:
Jay: Snooch to the mother****in' nooch!

Jay: Now that's what I'm talking about! (after Bethany kisses him)

Jay: Silent Bob's an instrument of God?!

Jay: Holy bartender! I get it! That's hilarious!

Silent Bob: No ticket. (I love the look he gives the confused passenger, like he's saying "Don't you know everyone without a ticket gets thrown off the train... literally?!")

Jay: Beautiful naked big-breasted women don't just fall out of the sky, you know!

Rufus: You masturbate more than anyone else on the entire planet!

Metatron: I'm as anatomically impaired as a Ken doll.

Metatron: What are you going to do with that... fish?

Loki: Whose house...? Run's house!

Great scenes:
Metatron's appearance and subsequent drenching via fire extinguisher.
Bartelby telling Loki off after they get kicked off the train.
The angels visiting Mooby headquarters. (You didn't say God bless you when I sneezed!)
Loki and Bartelby on the bus.
Loki and Bartelby in the gun shop.
Jay's explanation of how they ended up in Illinois.
Jay's logic behind hanging around at an abortion clinic.

And I agree with Silent Bob... this movie was way better than Chasing Amy. J&SB had way better scenes in this movie. They were in Chasing Amy for what, two minutes?
I didn't notice any big nits but having Bartelby and Loki go to that particular church was kind of pointless. Rufus notes that no particular religion is correct. Bartelby notes that what is bound on Earth is bound in heaven. So that sounds to me like everyone who believes in God is correct in some way. So why didn't they get baptized into the Mormon church? When Mormons do a baptism, it's for the remission of sins. I'm sure there are many other churches with similar ordinances. So that way, they would have had clean souls and all they would have had to worry about is dying.

Don't you just love a nit that internally negates the entire plot.

Since when do dead people need to eat and sleep, like Rufus does in this movie?

Bartelby looks surprised when Bethany tells him what she's supposed to do. If he's a watcher, why doesn't he know immediately?

Angels can't get drunk, but they can get stoned?

Hey! I cant seem to post to the Dogma board is Misc Comedies...can you please fix it?
I have a nit I need to say before anyone else catches it:
near the end when Bethany and the gang go to the church to find the slaughtered people you see a newsvan with the letter KREL on it...the church is in New Jersey and any TV or radio station on the east coast has the stations letters starting with W. It should have been WREL.

Could anyone tell me what the music is at the very end of the movie that is played before "Still?" I can't find it on napster, and it doesn't seem to be on the soundtrack, of corse I don't have it, so i don't know for sure.

This was the first movie I saw in theaters after moving to the States. And I loved it. It was hillarious irreverent, and incredibly offensive to religous types, which, for me, was part of it's appeal. My former roommate, current best-friend, and future moderator "Sax Russel" (that isn't his real name, but I promised not to tell) and I saw it together, and we enjoyed it very much.

Angels can't get stoned either. If you watch
closely, Loki fakes taking a hit when handed
the joint.

Why were Steve-Dave and Walt Flanagan protesting in McHenry? Why aren't they in Redbank running their comic store?

Answer to the Mormon idea: When Loki argues about the idea being church law not divine mandate in the Airport scene, Bartleby retorts God's message to the first Pope that what they hold true on earth, she'll hold things true in heaven. Apparently the higher powers have to only adhere to pope sanctioned rules. Last I checked, the pope doesn't sanction Mormon beliefs.

However, I was wondering, since L&B have been in Wisconsin since the 10 plagues of Egypt, they would have missed the whole life of Jesus, yet they still seemed to know all the events that happened here. They seemed to recognize Rufus. Yet they were cast out before Rufus was born.

We are coming for you, Wes Colins

This is for D. W. March...you didn't think that Silent Bob telling the other passenger "No ticket" was an homage to "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" when Jones throws the Nazi inspector off the zeppelin?

D.W. March: Great Scenes: Jay's explanation of how they ended up in Illinois.

Luigi Novi: He was giving a brief rundown of what happened in the Jay and Silent Bob miniseries, a four-issue comic book miniseries that was published prior to the film, and ended up with Jay and Silent Bob in the clinic parking lot, watching Bethany leave, and being attacked by the hockey kids. It was written by Kevin Smith and very nicely illustrated, IMHO, by Duncan Fregado. It was a RIOT! My only gripe is that, in an industry filled with careless hacks who couldn't draw a stick figure with Da Vinci leaning over their shoulder, why haven't I seen this Fregado guy's work before, and what's he been doing lately? At least Kevin's now working on the new Green Arrow series. It's pretty good, except for the ex-teen prostitute-turned-genius.

Michael Condon: However, I was wondering, since L&B have been in Wisconsin since the 10 plagues of Egypt, they would have missed the whole life of Jesus, yet they still seemed to know all the events that happened here. They seemed to recognize Rufus. Yet they were cast out before Rufus was born.

Luigi Novi: Were they in Wisconsin way back then? Back when there WAS no Wisconsin? As for the rest, don't they know all and see all?

Personally, I don't think Silent Bob's lines were as well-chosen as in the first and third movies. In those, he seeme to sort of "sum up" the character arc or theme of the movie, and his dialgoue in Amy was beautiful, because of the way Jay acknowledged this tendency of his, and Bob's subsequent comments to him to shut up. In this movie, the lines chosen for him to speak were arbitrary. With all the deep religious stuff in this movie, it would've been better if they gave some of the deep stuff to him, since they established his M.O. in the previous films to be that way.

With all the deep religious stuff in this movie, it would've been better if they gave some of the deep stuff to him, since they established his M.O. in the previous films to be that way.

Their is no they in regard to Silent Bob's lines. Kevin Smith wrote & directed the movie, and plays Bob. The correct line should be, he should have given his character something better to say.

Whatever. (Pick, pick, pick.)

I saw this on cable last week finally and loved it! I expected Alanis Morrissette to speak, other than her "beep" to Bethany's nose, but then didn't they say something like if you heard God speak you'd die instantly? I remember hearing someone tell me that once when I was a teen or in my early 20s. Anyway, why would God be so clumsy when doing handstands, and why would she do them at all, anyway? I'm not a fan of Alanis' music but I find her strangely attractive. I've seen clips of her as a teen performer and she was pretty then and almost unrecognizable from how she looks today, what with her 80s big hair.

Once again "The Prophecy" movies where a 100 times better. Also while it appears no one can hear the voice of God and survive this did infact happen at least twice in The Bible. Adam and Eve spoke to God then later Ezekeal spoke to him, face to face.
Also the laws of man do not apply to angels and the laws of angels do not apply to man. Even if God, for whatever odd reason, decided to honor this man made rule about anyone that walks thru the doorway being forgiven (ignoring that he already said the only way, all you have to do, to be forgiven is to except Jesus as your savior) this rule would NOT apply to an angel. Otherwise scores of Satan's followers would no doubt be lining up.
So shooting off their wings makes angels human? Ok, meanwhile back at the cabin grandma was holding off the indians with a rifle. ;)

The Prophecy? Those cheesy, stank-ass wanna be horror flicks? PLEASE! I've seen Friday The 13th sequels with more intersting characters!

Aren't those Prophecy films christian end-of-the-world ones or something like that, and that are somewhat popular, more or less, I guess?

Yes. The Prophecy has Christopher Walken as the Angel Gabriel. It's been awhile since I've seen them, but i thought they were very spooky. And it is very apocalyptic. There is a Prophecy 1 & 2 and I think the third one is coming out Dirct-to-video, but i'm not sure.

The third one (the second one for that matter IIRC) IS straight to video. It's already out. Put out by the same company that brought you the From Dusk Till Dawn Trilogy! I rest my case.

***Aren't those Prophecy films christian end-of-the-world ones ***

No "Christian" about them. They we're not really "horror" movies, more like thriller films. They had a few scary moments "little Tommy Dagget. You use to say such wonderful prayers. Then you would jump into your bed afraid I was under there... and I was." A few tense moments " Let's understand each other. I sang the first hymn when the stars were born. And, long ago, I announced to a young woman, Mary, who it was she was expecting. On the other hand, I've turned rivers into blood... kings into cripples... cities into salt. So I don't think that I have to explain myself to you." But it had humor as well (sidekick reaches for fruit from a tree in the garden of Eden.) "Don't eat that. Trust me." Not to sound like a troll, God I hate those people, but its plot is more mature then Dogma's, it's humor isn't as juvenile. I can tell from the posts that many people haven't seen all three. You MUST watch all three, at the same time, in a dark room.

***Put out by the same company that brought you the From Dusk Till Dawn Trilogy!***

Writtin by the same guy that wrote "Highlander," "Backdraft, and worked on "Tales from the Crypt." Put out by Dimension Films.

Yes. The Prophecy has Christopher Walken as the Angel Gabriel.
Gosh, am I dense! Now I remember seeing the first one on cable, and thought that Christopher Walken looked just absolutely awful in it. Not that he was supposed to be glamorous or anything, of course, but that makeup made him look much uglier than he already is. But it fits him, too, cuz he's one of the best spooky actors out there. It's no wonder why he's so popular for some comedians to do impressions of.

Usually when I hear "Prophecy" as a film I think of that gahdawful one from about 1980 with that name and has some mutated animals out in the woods. Now that's an awful film. The only funny part of it was then the grizzly attacked the campers and the one kid who tried to get away while still tied up in his mummy bag (yeah, like he had any chance at all to make a successful escape that way) gets knocked into that boulder by the grizzly and it bursts open and feathers go flying. The audience laughed very loud at that. What's also funny about it, but in a non-humorous way is that you only see feathers and no bones or body parts or even a dash of blood flying about. Oh, well.

Yeah THAT "Prophecy" was just bad.

Luigi: ...Were they in Wisconsin way back then? Back when there WAS no Wisconsin?...

The area may not have been called "the state of Wisconsin", but it certainly did exist (and there were people, there, too.) History doesn't start with the declaration of independence, you know. Places and people existed before the US.

...but then didn't they say something like if you heard God speak you'd die instantly? ...

The quote is:
Metatron : Human beings have neither the aural nor the psychological capacity to withstand the awesome power of God's true voice. Were you to hear it, your mind would cave in and your heart would explode within your chest. We went through five Adams before we figured that out.

...Anyway, why would God be so clumsy when doing handstands, and why would she do them at all, anyway?...

I suppose this further illustrates her sense of humor, or her child-like fun and simplicity. A god who is an old man with a beard, sitting on a throne and being wise is what everybody at age 4 imagines, but God is much much more than that. And in playing with, and turning them on the head, with popular christian expectations, the movie makes a nice quiet point beyond the sometimes gross humor, I think.

Adam: Also while it appears no one can hear the voice of God and survive this did infact happen at least twice in The Bible. Adam and Eve spoke to God then later Ezekeal spoke to him, face to face.

See above quote from Metatron, or the other quote:

Metatron: Metatron acts as the voice of God. Any documented occasion when some yahoo claims God has spoken to them, they're speaking to me. Or they're talking to themselves.

If an angel like Metatron spoke to Adam & Eve, or to Ezekiel, standing there flaming, would they know that this wasn't really God, but his voice? Or did God appear, and Metatron was standing behind him/her, speaking his/her thoughts? (Like at the end of the movie?)

What I dislike about the "Prophecy" films beside the too-detailed horror was the idea that the paradise and the acopalyse happen yet again in America. I mean, I'm used to the apocalyptic signs applying only to the US in movies made for the US public, but even paradise? Please. Is the average american moviegoer that unaware of other countries on the map, or early history? Or is that TPTBs view of the public? Or both?

A general nit about Dogma:

When Bartleby goes into his long rant:

Bartleby : Then he created humans. Ours was designed to be a life of servitude and worship... and bowing and scraping and adoration. He gave them more than He ever gave us. He gave them a choice. They choose to acknowledge God, or choose to ignore him. All this time we've been down here, I've felt the absence of the Divine presence. And it's pained me... As I'm sure it must have pained you. And why? Because of the way he made us. Had we been given free will, we could choose to ignore the pain. Like they do. But no! We're servants!

he complains that Angels don't have free will, only humans have, because they are like God, whereas Angels exist only to do Gods will (I think this idea comes up in the Prophecy films, too, but I'm not sure). However, since Angels rebelled, they aren't automatons or robots, they are also capable of free will.

It could also be argued that humans don't exercise free will in ignoring the pain of absence of God, they exercise free will by not acknowledging God, or denying him. But many (not all - I don't want to anger our atheistic friends amond the nitpickers) humans feel the pain of absence of something in their life. They may not be able to put it into words what they miss, but it might be claimed that they suffer the pain of absence without really knowing or acknowledging it.

I really like Beth's quote at the end:

Rufus: Are you saying you believe?
Bethany : No. But I have a good idea.

An instantaneous conversion would have been a cheap cop-out; this feels more sincere and belivable.

Also interesting is that when Metatron first shows up, Bethany is angry at him because she didn't get pregnant from her not-so-good husband, who left her. At the end, it was part of Gods plan, since now Bethany is pregnant from God herself.

constanze,

Please. Is the average american moviegoer that unaware of other countries on the map, or early history? Or is that TPTBs view of the public? Or both?

I realize it would be nice if moviemakers made intelligent world-wide movies, but let's face it. Hollywood doesn't think there's anything beyond LA and New York, much less the rest of the US.

And in a sense, they're making movies for people in the US. So they show them what they think they want.

In answer to your question, it's most likely TPTB.

We know you think the US is an ethnocentric society. You don't have to put it into every post

ScottN,

sorry if I get over the top a little bit sometime. I'll amend your point:

I think the US is an ethnocentric society in general, with many open-minded individuals (hopefully, most of the nitpickers here are the latter).

There, that is more correct. (After all, there exist europeans who think europeans are always right, too, and I'll acknowledge this fact, too.)

Hey! If yer American before you go in the bathroom and American when ya come out, what are ya inside?

European! Har har har!

MarkN:...but then didn't they say something like if you heard God speak you'd die instantly? ...

constanze: The quote is: Metatron : Human beings have neither the aural nor the psychological capacity to withstand the awesome power of God's true voice. Were you to hear it, your mind would cave in and your heart would explode within your chest. We went through five Adams before we figured that out.
Luigi Novi: You left out the rest of Mark’s quote. His full question was:

I expected Alanis Morrissette to speak, other than her "beep" to Bethany's nose, but then didn't they say something like if you heard God speak you'd die instantly?

Mark was talking about the “beep” sound she made at the end of the movie to Bethany, not an instance with Metatron. I think he was asking why that didn’t shatter them.

ScottN,

here's a nice article about "League of Extraordinary Gentleman" and what TPTB think about their audience.

I do feel sorry for those americans that aren't like that and hope you will get more intelligent producers some time soon, so really good movies will be made in Hollywood. (And then, when Hell is frozen over, we can all go ice-skating )

I thought the movie was okay, and actually better than the graphic novel, which I didn't bother finishing, and it wasn't because Sawyer wasn't in it. Regardless of whether Sawyer was in it, I just found it plain boring, and badly illustrated, something I don't think had ever happened when reading anything Alan Moore wrote. I also didn't buy Mina's character at all, why she was drawn with a waist small enough for me to grab with one hand, or the idea of the Invisible Man as a rapist.

Why's this on the Dogma board?

Well... the article is satirizing movie studio thinking, based on a piece of trivia the author read about... not actually stating as fact what went through their minds.

In fact, I would guess that Tom Sawyer was probably introduced into the picture moreso to appeal to a younger demographic than to appeal to an American audience.