William Shatner is returning to the franchise for the new Star Trek film!
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/entertainment/a/-/entertainment/6367979/shatner-set-for-star-trek-sequel/
There are talks about bringing back Khan.
I hope not
This movie is two years away people. Relax.
I have read a rumor, only that, that a character from the original series will be used as a principle antagonist in the next film, but that it will not be Khan. I believe most fans will be pleased by that fact.
It is probably too much to hope that the next film will bypass the hackneyed "villain"-driven plot that has become the cinematic ST standard. Yet another Khan/Kruge/Chang/Shinzon/Nero-style "bad guy" will be distressingly tedious.
Instead, if a character from the original series must be used.....why not choose something atypical? I would prefer an original plot and original characters, but if the next movie MUST fall back on a previous character....
I would choose Lazarus. Take a character from a failed episode and finally do the character and the concept some justice.
Which does not mean that better episodes could not be used as a source. I simply hope that we will be spared a character that too easily fits the mould of traditional villain - Trelane, Gary Mitchell, Harry Mudd. I like all of those characters, a lot; but it would be disappointing to see any of them in a film.
I would hope the filmmakers opt for something unexpected.
Sam, I can't see the article you linked to (the page loaded but there's no text) but if I found what I think you were talking about, this was Shatner saying he wanted in, yes? Not that JJ Abrams had figured out a way to get Kirk Prime into the re-booted franchise, no?
I would hate to see Abrams, et al squander this opportunity to tell fresh allegorical stories in the vein of what Trek was originally by retreading old, and tired, ground. Consider that at the end of the last movie a rogue Romulan had committed an act of terrorism as significant to the Federation as 9/11 was to the United States. Nowwe have an opportunity to explore powerful stories about our own culture through the lens of science-fiction…the issues of racism and how a culture does or does not give into its own fears and subconscious xenophobia.
I would hate to see Abrams, et al squander this opportunity to tell fresh allegorical stories in the vein of what Trek was originally
Too late.
Abrams Trekboot is about being loud, garish sci-fi spectaculars.
Any thoughtful science fiction, allegory, or morality tales, like Trek of old will have to be snuck in between the explosions, special effects & catch phrases.
As the crew of the Enterprise learn to work together, they encounter a strange cube in space.
Is it a boundary marker from the Fesarius of the First Federation?
Has time been altered yet again so that the Borg have arrived early?
No!
It's....
It's....
Writer's Block!
Robert Orci still hammering out the script for Star Trek 2.
Robert Orci still hammering out the script for "Star Trek 2".
quote:
I hope it won't be called that. For the simple reason that there's already a great movie out there, and readily available on DVD and Blu-Ray, titled Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan.
I say it's time to stop being ashamed of the numbers- 12 is an impressive achievement- embrace it, as Trek films haven't since Generations! :-)
I'm guessing they're gonna dump the numbers for the reboot series, and will go with subtitles.
I cant wait for this movie. The new Trek direct started by Abrams has been awesome so far.
*direction
It won't be next summer, though.
I don't think that is shocking anyone.
Meh...I would rather they take their time making it then rush out a new Trek movie every two years.
And it would just be way, way too much action and sci-fi and superheroes next year, throwing it in with Spider-man, Batman, and The Avengers next year. More money for those guys. Maybe this one will go up against Superman and that's fine by me.
J.J. Abrams Officially Commits to Directing Star Trek 2.
Pre-production is underway, the script will be done by month's end and that Abrams will start shooting this winter.
Benicio Del Toro is in talks with J.J. Abrams about appearing as the villain for Star Trek 2.* Can we say, "KHAAAAAANNNNN!"?
* Yes, apparently, it is being refered to as Star Trek 2.
Nope, it's not.
http://www.trektoday.com/content/2011/10/star-trek-2/#more-13215
Oh and comments like Keith remind me of these type of fans
http://www.theonion.com/video/trekkies-bash-new-star-trek-film-as-fun-watchable,14333/
I never said Star Trek 2 was the film's official title; just that's how it's been referred to.
The implication was clear.
You may have inferred such, but my wording was fairly exact. If I meant it was the title, I would have said, "Yes, it's being called Star Trek 2" or "Yes, it's official title is Star Trek 2". Since I didn't, whatever "implication" you got from my post is your own doing.
Come on, dude. Why would you even state "*Yes, apparently, it is being refered to as Star Trek 2." if you didn't think that was the official title?
Well, I guess you know what I intended to say better than I do. And really, I don't care anymore.
No need for hostility.
Dude, he meant "referred to as 'Star Trek 2'" as opposed to "Star Trek XII"
And the point is?
May 17 2013
Peter Weller will be in the film, marking yet another actor who's appeared in multiple Trek roles.
DelToro is out. A disageement over (what else?) money is the problem.
If information were scocer, this would be a goooooal!
Great, now the lens flares will fly off the screen.
I hate lens flares.
Who else in Trek has Peter Weller played besides Paxton on Enterprise? I looked him up on Memory Alpha and they don't mention any other roles.
If you're referring to my December 5 post, Chris, the other role will be the one plays in the upcoming film.
Lens flares are great!!!
My Christmas has just come early (or late, but I don't really care which!): Benedict Cumberbatch, star of Sherlock, my absolute favourite show at the moment, and all-round gorgeous sex god oh wait did I say that out loud? has been cast as a/the villain in the new movie.
Hooray, you're back, Callie! Trek discussion just got better once again.
Incidently, I'd never heard of this guy, I wonder which villian he will be playing!
So he's going to be in both the Hobbit movies and the next Trek flick?
Geez, I think I just heard genre fanboys everywhere running to change their shorts.
*waves to Andre* I don't think they've announced the name of his character yet.
There've been hilarious suggestions that Benedict had been complaining to his agent that he was fed up of hearing about all the slash fanfic about his character Sherlock Holmes and Martin Freeman's John Watson, so his agent wickedly suggested that he would do much better in Star Trek without advising him that Trek is the ultimate home of slashfic!
And I believe that Benedict's Smaug will only be in part two of the Hobbit movie, Luigi.
Yes, but he also voices the Necromancer. That, and the fact that they might preface the appearances of these characters via flash-forwards (perhaps when Gandalf first explains the quest to Bilbo) means he might be in the first one too. And if I'm wrong, well then, fine, I amend my statement:
So he's going to be in one of the Hobbit movies and the next Trek flick?
Geez, I think I just heard genre fanboys everywhere running to change their shorts.
Forget genre fanboys....Callie is wetting herself with giddy delight at the thought. Benedict IN 3D!!!!
Three British actors have been hired as guest stars in the next movie, including the aforementioned Benedict Cumberbatch.
(adopts nonchalant tone) I've seen Benedict in 3D before, including stark naked several times - in real life, only a few feet away from me.
And no, my underwear did not survive the experience ...
Photo of Zachary Quinto on set in an EV suit that looks a lot like the one Spock wore in The Motion Picture.
Spoilers from TrekMovie. Read at your own risk. Or, if you're like the bankrobber in Dirty Harry, you "gots to know." 
At least one of those spoilers, the second one, has widely been suspected by most fans already. Even on this website. So no real surprise there. The third isn't too surprising, either. The first.... (Comment in white, highlight if you want to read it.): So much for Nimoy's retirement.
Spoilers had a habit of getting out, even in the pre-internet "dark ages." The main plot twists of Star Treks II and III leaked out during production, and went through fandom like wildfire. Now, it's impossible to keep anything under wraps for any length of time.
Shooting has ended.
Peter Weller, when asked about his character, indicated that he isn't an alien, but has his own ship.
Also, there will be Klingons in the film.
And for those who haven't seen the Rura Penthe scene showing the masked Klingons with more human-sounding accents that was cut from the 2009 film, you can see it here.
Wonder if Weller's ship is the Reliant?
I think we have a title!
Star Trek: Into Darkness
The title should be sans colon.
Star Trek Into Darkness.
Perhaps it could be in a sentence such as "the Enterprise crew goes on a star trek into darkness.
BTW - I've seen the 7th movie written with or without.
Star Trek Generations or Star Trek: Generations. Anyone else ever seen that?
Chris:BTW - I've seen the 7th movie written with or without.
Star Trek Generations or Star Trek: Generations. Anyone else ever seen that?
Sadly,yes I have--there was a film that started out with certain goals, and was willing to do ANYTHING to get them.
BTW- The XII in Star Trek XII stands for 12 not 7(in Roman numbers X stands for 10, V is for 5).
There are some websites trying to figure out the meaning behind the title Star Trek Into Darkness. They suggest such possibilities as Khan, or blackhole, or reference to Heart of Darkness. Here are a few more:
1. It's a follow up to McCoy calling space a place wrapped in darkness.
2. The crew will find the mirror universe along with an intact planet Vulcan with an evil population. They attempt to pull the planet into our universe with the aid of dolphins.
3. Kirk's mom marries Spock's dad, causing a time of darkness for the new half-brothers.
4. Spock finally gets to KNOW Uhura.
Trek INTO Darkness.
Wink, wink
Nudge, nudge
KnowwhatImean
Chris:4. Spock finally gets to KNOW Uhura.
I think in this time line that Spock already KNOWS Uhura.
And yes--I do knowwhatyoumean.
Thank God: J.J. Abrams has said no to taking on the next Star Wars movie.
The first nine minutes of the film will play in Imax 3D theaters playing The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey.
Star Trek Into Darkness synopsis
Rumors are the villain will be Gary Mitchell ("Where No Man Has Gone Before") instead of Khan.
In order for Mitchell to be a one man weapon of mass destruction in the new movie, he would have to go through the galactic barrier in this new timeline also. What would be the odds of that?
Official poster!
It looks like they might be influenced by the teaser poster for The Dark Knight Rises. I like it!
There does seem to be a bit of a theme developing ...
Online trailer debuts tomorrow.
Callie: There does seem to be a bit of a theme developing ...
Especially the comparison to the shot from "The Reichenbach Fall". Wonder if that was intentional, or someone did it BILC...
Just watched the trailer, and it looks like a big, splashy, blow-it-up-real-good-now spectacle that leaves me wondering just how much time we'll have to get into character development.
The Big Bad says he's back for vengeance, so it could mean either of the two ideas that have been popularly speculated on, either of which could make for good stories...or if we mashed-up both! Here's a thought for idle speculation: [Hidden just in case it constitutes spoilers, sweetie] what if, in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" Kirk had been able to contain Gary Mitchell instead of having to kill him, and then in "Space Seed" they could have used Mitchell to go mano-a-braino with Khan? Heh.
My other thought on watching the trailer is asking just how far down Bad Robot can beat the Federation and still have a Star Trek? Last movie Starfleet lost a lot of ships--and one of the founding planets of the Federation--and it looks like Starfleet and the Federation are set to lose a lot more here. If this keeps up, Abrams's fourth movie will have Kirk & Co. trying to fight off a Gorn invasion with spears and slingshots...
Please, Kyle. Stone knives and bearskins, not spears and slingshots!
After seeing poster and teaser, comparisons are being made to Batman/Dark Knight. Here is another connection: The villain Bane from Dark Knight Rises was played by Tom Hardy. He was also the villain in Nemesis. Both movies showed a child raised in darkness who had a protector. Keep in mind that Hardy played a clone of
Picard. He also was in a movie with Chris Pine called This Means War. So young Kirk and young Picard have been on-screen together. Someone wrote: When they Trek Into Darkness, will they find the Dark Knight?
Eric Bana was the villain in Nemesis. Or was Tom Hardy the Reman "Viceroy"?
Never mind. Didn't read the full post.
I just saw the trailer. It's awesome. I wonder if the villain is Khan, given the trailer? (Not a spoiler, just speculation.)
There's an alternative theory (and it is only a theory from a fan) here.
(Nope, not posting this simply because of the gorgeous man in it. Not at all. *cough*)
Don't even talk to me about that trailer. Not only does the film look amazing but listening to That Voice on headphones left me completely unable to work for the next fifteen minutes.
Callie, I read your last sentence too fast and saw "unable to walk for the next fifteen minutes" and thought, wow, talk about swooning and being weak in the knees!
I will say that I am a hey-UGE fan of Mr. Cumberbatch in Sherlock and am looking forward to seeing what else he can do. I have finally gotten past hearing a young Alan Rickman in his voice, and so this is gonna be legen–wait for it…
This Japanese version of the teaser is 14 seconds longer, and said to have an additional "spoiler" for those familiar with Wrath of Khan, but I didn't see it. What'd I miss?
The added scene is of Spock's and possibly Kirk's hand trying to touch through a glass pane, similar to what happens at the end of Wrath of Khan, when dying Spock says his last goodbye to Kirk.
Oh yeah. I thought about that.
I read your last sentence too fast and saw "unable to walk for the next fifteen minutes"
*opens mouth*
*thinks better of it*
*closes mouth and giggles instead*
And the name of Cumberbatch's villain IS...
John Harrison.
The latest hypotheses being that given it's an Abrams movie, this is a red herring. I'm still guessing Gary Mitchell, all thanks to Alice Eve's hair.
It could still be Khan using the pseudonym "John Harrison" to disguise who he is.
OK, so I'm putting my speculation down in hopes of looking back come May and learning how wrong I was.
I'm thinking this might not be as much a revisit of a classic Trek story as much as it may be a mash-up of two classic Trek stories. I think Alice Eve does look more like Sally Kellerman than Bibi Besch, which leans me towards "Where No Man Has Gone Before". But the shot in the Japanese trailer with the two hands on the glass, one of the people dressed in Life Sciences blue and making what appears to be the start of a Vulcan salute makes me think "Wrath of Khan". (Pleasepleaseplease don't kill Spock in this movie; that would just be too repetitious.) But in the teaser, around the :47 mark, you see Benedict Cumberbatch wearing what appears to be the black shirt of a Starfleet uniform, complete with Starfleet chevron on the chest, so I'm thinking Gary Mitchell. But the name John Harrison is the name of an uncredited extra in "Space Seed" who was on the bridge when Khan attempted his takeover of the Enterprise.
…but "Harrison" also appeared uncredited in a number of other episodes, so, yeah, I'm going with a red herring. I think they're mashing elements of Khan and "Space Seed" in with Gary Mitchell and "Where No Man Has Gone Before". Could be interesting, if so!
They also gave Khan a SF uniform in "Space Seed"
From his post, I'm guessing Kyle already knew this, but Alice Eve is...
Carol Marcus! Here's the link.
'John Harrison'?
Don't they mean 'George Lennon'?
Maybe his real name is 'Ringo McCartney'!
Anyways, shouldn't this thread be re-named 'Star Trek - Into Darkness', now that we have a title?
One Trek Mind analyzes trailer for clues about the villain.
Saw the 9 minute footage prior to Hobbit. The stardate for STID (not to be confused w/ STDs) is 2259.55. For the '09 reboot Trek, the stardate (when Kirk was on ice planet) was 2258.42. If I remember the meaning of the date, I think that's just a year apart.
New, full trailer!
My prediction: The villain will not be Khan. But the movie will have some homage to Wrath. Such as Spocks "needs of the many", Carol Marcus, and the separation by glass wall.
Does the Kirk of this reality even meet Carol Marcus? He took command of the Enterprise at least a decade or so ahead of Kirk Prime (thanks to Nero). So he will have missed a lot of events that K.P. had. Of course, I'm not 100% sure.
@Tim, I'm guessing yes, given that Alice Eve is playing her. See Josh's link from 11 December.
Some new production stills, and some shots of the February 2013 issue of Empire magazine, featuring Chris Pine and Benedict Cumberbatch.
J.J. Abrams granted the wish of a fan who has only weeks left to live by granting him a private screening of the upcoming "Star Trek" film.
Hmph. Lucky bastard.
Mmmmm, I'm not sure "lucky" is the word I would use, considering the circumstances that earned him this privilege. That being said, it's a very nice gesture from Abrams.
I was being ironic.
I'm nitpicking this thread.
We're down to just 4 months (132 days) until this movie is released and this thread is still called 'Star Trek XII' (upcoming movie'.
Anybody know how to change that to it's proper title, 'Star Trek - Into Darkness'? I think it's due for a change.
I tried posting on the "Excuse me, moderator...?" board (and I think I tried asking him here but I'm not sure), but I've gotten no response. I'll email Phil.
The prequel comic book, Countdown to Darkness, will feature the surprise character Spoiler! Highlight to Read Captain Robert April.
Cool. So now he's officially canon. (But then I consider the Animateds to be [largely] canon, so he always was canon to me.)
What in the world----?
Has some admin done some reordering of the posts on this board?
The above 4 boards are chronologically out of order.
Oh my god! It's another quantum singularity-timeline shift like in the last movie!
Okay, who dropped the red matter?
Yes, it does look pretty weird, doesn't it?
Who's responsible for this weirdness? Just who are the current NC administrators, anyway? I only know of moderators for some of the boards, but I have no idea who controls the entire site!
Perhaps they could be contacted so they can be made aware of the situation, so it can it be fixed?
Please do so, with much appreciation from myself and others who may not say so here.
And with that, I bid thee adieu.
I'll sort it out! Just give me a while to ask my fellow mods how it's done... this never came up in Mod 101
Well, at least the board name now reflects the name of the movie! Many thanks!
Ok, everything should be back where it belongs. Any more problems, just let me know.
Lord, loved a duck.
It seems that Trek nerdom and Wikipedia nerdom have intersected in one big, giant nerd equivalent of a 50-car LA Freeway pileup.
As a Wikipedia administrator, I was asked by a fellow editor to intervene in an editorial dispute taking place on the Wikipedia article for the upcoming Star Trek film, and its corresponding talk page.
What's the argument about?
It's about whether the letter "i" in the word "into" is capitalized or lowercased. Some think it is, and believe the title of the film is "Star Trek Into Darkness", reasoning that the phrase "Into Darkness" is a subtitle (even though there's no colon), much as with past Trek movie titles. Others look to official sources such as the poster for the film, which shows the "i" lowercased, and argue that the phrase is not a subtitle, but simply "Star Trek into Darkness".
Some tried to suggested a compromise, and it seemed that that compromise garnered several supporters, so I removed the page protection that prevented all non-admins from editing the article, figuring the edit warring was over.
But then the edit war started all over again, and someone else had to protect the article again. It's gotten so ridiculous that the argument is now being covered by websites like the Daily Rot.
And on xkcd.
Huh. Google appears to be going with the lowercase. IMDB going with the upper. Probably won't help that the title will be all caps when we actually see it on the big screen.
That said, here's a little promo featurette.
I had to comment because... I'm stupid and I felt like wasting 30 seconds of my life.
Luigi, I think you've glommed onto the name of Peter Weller's character in the movie, given what I saw in the linked article. I think the image of the character in the comic looks enough like Mr. Weller…
Did anyone see the Super Bowl ad for the movie? I think there's a give-away line in there…it might be a red herring but I'm inclined to think it's not.
Wait, does he appear as Buckaroo Banzai? Because then I'll definitely see this in the theater.
Here's the Super Bowl spot on YouTube.
What name is that, Kyle? You're saying it's in the xkcd cartoon?
EW does what it does with five new photos from the movie.
Plus two covers.
The trailer shows a battle-damaged Enterprise, and it might be the ship that crashes.
Meh.
I've never been emotionally-attached to her like I was the original, the refit, and even Enterprise-D, so to see yet another Enterptrise bite the dust...eh.
No biggie.
She's just a weirdly-redesigned copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy
And I think re-imagining concepts (even just ideas like starship-crashing) of the previous movies is a mistake.
There's a problem that exists in all Star Trek incarnations, but here is as good a place as any to post it. When a starship is destroyed, through whatever means, all of its antimatter reserve is released and should explode. We saw in TOS Obsession what a mere ounce of the stuff can do, and I'm pretty sure there's a lot more than an ounce of it in a starship's reserve. A destroyed starship should go off with the power of an exploding star, and crashing one on Earth should pretty much destroy the planet.
I would just assume the storage containers are made of very strong stuff indeed.
So was that the Millennium Falcon going through the interior of the second Death Star?
Who didn't want to chant "Summon bigger fish!" when that large creature swam past?
Another new trailer (pretty soon after the previous one, oddly enough), with some cool new shots, dialogue, and some ideas of the basic plot.
It also features Peter Weller, and a shot of Alice Eve in her unmentionables.
Ooh, gonna have to re-rewatch because I missed Peter Weller, unless he was in the conference room scene?
I like where this is going…or at least where it's not. Given what has been revealed in the trailers I think we can say with near-certainty that Benedict Cumberbatch is not playing Khan Noonian Singh. I'm glad for two reasons: (1) they already used Khan in the earlier Trek movies so it would be redundant to rely on him again, and (2) using n English actor for a character from the Subcontinent would be yet another case of whitewashed Hollywood.
I was intrigued to notice that Uhura got more screen-time in the trailer than McCoy. It would be a nice development in the reboot if Uhura had a more prominent role as the only female in the entire regular cast. (Which reminds me: where's Christine Chapel? Ooh, unless Alice Eve…hmm.)
They've revealed enough of the plot now to alleviate most fanboi stress a month ahead of the release, but I just know there's still going to be some very interesting plot developments.
George Takei facebooked that he got a homage (Shuttlecraft or some ship was named the "Takei").
I wonder if it's registry number will be 6469, in honor of his catchphrase.
RE: crashing ship
I've done a careful re-watch of the various indications of what ship smashes Alcatraz before crashing into San Francisco proper. It's not Enterprise.
In the promos we see shots of the Enterprise badly beaten up: holes in the saucer section, the deflector dish damaged, the starboard nacelle's bussard collector destroyed, and we see the ship in what appears to be de-orbiting straight down. Which is meant to lead us to think it's Enterprise that ultimately crashes.
BUT. In the shots of the ship that crashes we see her nacelles appear to be a trapezoidal cross-section rather than the rounded ones of Enterprise, the nacelle pylons either are straight or convex rather than the concave bend of Enterprise's pylons and the nacelles seem to be further outboard than Enterprise's are. So my very loose analysis says this is the ship that Kirk and someone else do a space-jump to reach.
Now, here's my big speculation completely unrelated to ships and other hardware: what if John Harrison is part of Section 31? Does anyone think Orci, Kurtzman, and Lindelof—being big fans of the entire franchise—would have pulled that storyline out of DS9 and ST:E? It would fit with the whole "he's one of ours" theme and the idea that this movie deals with questions of terrorism and fear and the price of hope. Not saying it is or isn't, but that it's plausible to me…
New trailer posted today!
It was good. Some new footage and scenes!
Also, the movie's Facebook page may indicate that a classic alien species makes an appearance:
You can see the retail statue for it here. Looks pretty good, IMO.
REALLY GOOD 1 minute, 18 second clip.
Abrams changed the Klingons.
Why has he done this? I don't get it.
21 seconds into this clip, you see a Klingon without a mask, and he looks completely different from the pre-reboot Klingons.
Again, I don't get it. What was wrong with the way Klingons looked? And why would their look be changed? Does this follow any logic of the timeline change in the prior movie?
I don't like it.
They kind of look like Jem'Haddar(?) or some lizard-like thing now, if they really were Klingons that is; however their 3-point symbol was pretty clear. It doesn't make much sense to me either, but then again neither do many of the other 'changes' as well, from the previous movie. Although the movie looks great it still seems to me Abrams et al are still trying way too hard to separate themselves from the rest of Trek.
Charles Evans? What?! Now, I just might go see this film after all.
Sounds like this is going to be a good movie.
I think that was an April Fools gag, note the date of the article posting and the wording at the end end of it.
quote:Luigi Novi: Why has he done this? I don't get it.
All creators "do what they like". But for the most part, his rendition of Trek was pretty good in the 2009 movie. People may not have all liked the bridge design, bridge design is a relatively minor thing that has changed or been shown in countless iterations over the decades. The appearance of the Klingons, goes directly to how we relate to them, and has been an consistent thing since 1979 (and would've been since 1967, had the FX guys had the money), as I've read.
You may think it's a "minor thing", but much of the internet didn't seem to follow your example since it seemed like, behind lens flare, the bridge (and to a lesser extent, the industrial Engineering) was one of the bigger issues fans had with the 2009 film. Honestly, if it's a well done film that audiences enjoy like the first one was, I think aesthetic changes will be largely overlooked. It was from '69 to '79 and again from '79 to '84, when I think the modern look of the Klingons was truly finalized. Now, social media didn't exist then as it does now, so there will always be some grumbles. But what will really cause a stir is if the movie sucks, then changes like the look of the Klingons or Harrison possibly being Khan will be emphasized.
First Post Movie Post!
I was able to see the Fan Sneak.
Shall we begin?
First impressions (IMHO):
Awesome!
An emotional roller coaster.
Of course, I do have a few nits, observations, and spoilers.
So consider yourself WARNED!
The movie begins on the alien planet with the red plants and bleached white Natives. As I recall from the Hobbit sneak, the first scene from London was shown prior to this, but in the movie it is reversed. And to make a further observation: Now that I have YouTube and a Trailer app, I can recall that almost every scene and almost every line from the trailers made it on screen, but the lines from the commercials don’t match up with the visuals. (In the old days I had to record Trailers on a VHS in order to watch them over. Progress!)
A few nits from the planet:
Spock claims that if the volcano erupts that it would destroy the entire planet. I don’t think one volcano can do that, unless they know it might start a chain reaction.
Scotty says something in the spirit of Bones when he talks about the ship being under water. Why would salt water hurt a spaceship? Surely a hull that can withstand the extremes of space, as well as any anomalies, can also withstand salt water.
Scotty also mentioned that reason the starship was there was because they were hiding. I can think of a better place to hide a spaceship: In Space! I refer to this using the term Unnecessary Coolness. Seeing Enterprise emerge from the water was cool, but unnecessary.
I may be reading too much into this, but were They trying to make a quick commentary on people who have Sacred Writings?
THEN we see the London scene. I posted after watching the Hobbit preview that the stardate is 2259.55; about a year after the previous Trek.
I read some spoilers about what happens next, but seeing it on screen for the first time was still emotional. I suppose that’s why Abrams et al wanted to keep the surprise as long as possible. They realize that the emotions experienced during the first viewing will be something we’ll try to recapture as we view it repeatedly in the future.
Something else I’ve posted in the past: I’ve always liked Pike. His lines from “The Cage” really showed his humanity. ("You bet I'm tired...") Great character!
Notes about the key characters:
Of course we have the key crew take their places, regardless of what happened to Kirk after the beginning. I still consider the presence of Chekov a nit. The prior Trek gave his age then as 17, but that don’t line up with the Chronology.
Liked seeing Keenser (Deep Roy). According to Wikipedia, the actor was also in “Return of the Jedi”. Am I correct in saying that he is the only actor to be in both “Star Wars” and “Star Trek”?
Loved the addition of Carol (Alice Eve). Is it just me, or does she look slightly different every time we see her. I swear, when I first saw the trailers I thought there might be 3 different females who happened to all be blonde. Anyway, she seemed to have an accent and sound like a Brit. The original Carol seemed American. Was the accent part of her disguise when she first came onboard? I don’t think she loses it after being discovered.
Carol mentioned Nurse Chapel. I realized after the movie that is may have been a shout out to Majel B. Roddenberry. I also wonder who is now the computer voice; I didn’t think to check the credits.
There was a scene when I thought Kirk was going to demote himself make Spock permanent Caption.
Glad to hear the revelation of Section 31 and hope that will be more of that in the future.
Good to see Klingons in action. As I recall, only one removed his helmet and we could see he looked different than past Klingons. So that is a nit. But it was also a nit that was in the Motion Picture and I got over it. That change however was explained in an episode of “Enterprise”.
Now we come to John.
Who’s Johnny? A song by El DeBarge!
If you don’t want to know STOP READING NOW!
But before I reveal, let me explain the far-out theory I had: John would turn out to be the kid Johnny that kid Kirk passed in the prior movie. Johnny is Kirk’s brother who was supposed to be named George after their father. I submit that the mean uncle adopted him and renamed him. Thus explaining the line: “Is there anything you would not do for family.”
Sure I read the rumors that John might really be Khan, but I didn’t think They would go there. Maybe just make a lot of references to Trek II during the movie. Well, They went there.
John is Khan. So it is a nit that he seems to be a Brit and therefore different than the original. Do I mind? Like the Klingons, I got over it quickly. I do think it interesting that They are trying to make new Trek fans, who may never have seen Trek II, and yet give so many references to it. To truly appreciate this movie, you need to watch the prior. Perhaps an alternate title for this feature could be Star Trek II Too. Does anyone know anyone who saw/will see this movie without seeing Trek II? If so, I’d like to know their thoughts, and if they understood everything.
Speaking of understanding: I wonder would have happened if Kirk did fire on Johnny Khan when he was in hiding. Would the torpedoes have exploded, or would Khan get his crew back? Also it seems like the main characters were trying to use each other. Marcus actually hoped Khan would escape to Kronos. Khan hoped that the torpedoes would be used against him. And Kirk used Khan to help out. For a moment, I thought They would really alter things and have Khan be a good guy.
Another major spoiler:
Nice cameo from Nimoy. But I can’t help but wonder how things might have happened differently if he couldn’t communicate with the ship.
Yet another major spoiler:
Kirk dies! Missed opportunity: He should have said “oh my”. I guessed as he was going to his doom that genetic blood would save him. I was confused that they had to get it from Khan and not another body. Guess they didn’t want to take the risk.
Another missed opportunity: Spock should have come back to the ship surprised to see Kirk alive and declare “Jim!” as he did in “Amok Time”.
At the very end Kirk says a year has passed. Then he recites the Captain’s Oath, which I assume changes depending on the name of your ship and the length of your mission. We’ve heard variations in past Trek including Trek II, Trek III, and the previous Trek. However, all of those were said by Spock as played by Nimoy. This is the first time since TOS that Kirk has said it. (He did say the very last part of it at the end of Trek VI when he changed “no man” to “no one”.)
I predict that this will take it’s place among the even numbered favorites.
Now for the next Trek, which will hopefully be released for the 50th Anniversary in 2016.
Additional:
I assume Carol is a member of Starfleet. This is either a nit or explained by the altered time-line, as I believe the original was never a member. Which begs the question of how Carol met Kirk in Prime Time. Maybe when he was on an assignment.
Additional Additional:
You might be able to tell that I typed my previous two posts late in the night, right after I got home from seeing the movie.
The more I try to remember, the more I can't recall if some of the lines heard during the trailers indeed made it into the movie.
Also, I wrote that the key characters took their places. I forgot the add the exception of Scotty. A bold move for his character. Good thing as he turns up later to help during a key dramatic moment.
Chekov took Scotty's place in engineering. I admit I was worried for the young guy because he is barely seen in the trailers. Also, he's wearing a red shirt.
Finally (for now), I remain confused regarding the warp core. In the previous Trek when Scotty rejected it, multiple objects left the ship. Now we see a large chamber. As with Trek II, there should be a mechanism available to fix it if crewman can't enter. Maybe it broke.
It there no longer a column with pulsing light?
Last Day Spoiler Space la la la Benedict is very pretty.
I too wondered how people who are not long-term Trek watchers would react to Harrison's revelation of who he is. It's done in such a close-up dramatic way that the audience is obviously supposed to gasp and go, "Wow!" but I've seen several interviews where JJ has said that he's making these movies for people who aren't long-term Trekkers as well as for the fans. So why put in such a well-known piece of Trek lore that'll mean nothing to the casual viewer? Even the phonecall to original-Spock doesn't provide any additional explanation, just a comment which basically says, "He's really eeeeevil!" which we had kind of worked out already.
Oh, the bit with the blood really annoyed me. It was obvious that Harrison/Khan's blood was going to save Kirk, but the way it was done made me grind my teeth. Bones had just taken one of the 72 out of stasis so that he could put Kirk's body in the cryochamber, so why is he yelling at Spock that he needs Khan alive? Or, dimwit, why don't you take the blood of the bloke you've just revived?! Khan never mentioned that he was the only one with super-blood and it's a fair bet that the others have it too. It's not even that the person just out of the chamber is still in a suspended form, because Bones tells a nurse to keep the man in a medically-induced coma, so he must be warm and likely to wake up.
Carol's attempt to hide her real identity was just distracting when Alice had been touted as playing "Carol Marcus" all through the publicity. When she introduced herself using her mother's maiden name it just threw me out of the film wondering what the hell that was all about.
Mickey-the-Idiot!! (from Doctor Who) I didn't recognise him in the trailer, so it was a surprise to see him.
Was I the only one who assumed, when Scotty found the mystery ship, that it was going to be the Botany Bay?
I couldn't help but giggle when Kirk was trying to beat the living daylights out of Harrison and he just stood there with a "Are you quite done?" look on his face. But all in all there weren't a lot of laughs in this movie, and I didn't hear the audience around me giggle at all. However, a German friend says that her audience were laughing at times.
I'll be interested to see how other fans/regular viewers of Trek and Wrath of Khan in particular reacted to the switched scene between Kirk and Spock. I couldn't decide whether it was rather cute or whether it was clever for the sake of clever.
Despite the extreme prettiness of the Big Bad - and at least he was written as a better character than Nero - I cannot see how Khan can suddenly have become an extremely white white man. (I mean, seriously, could they have cast anyone paler than Benedict?!) Didn't this alternate universe only come into existence when Nero's ship came through the wormhole? So shouldn't the 'original' Khan - who was put into stasis hundreds of years before the universe split - be in both universes?
Since seeing the film I've seen reviews where clever people had pointed out long ago that the ship crashing to Earth wasn't the Enterprise, but I had been avoiding spoilers and I'm not enough of a fangirl to have recognised that the crashing ship was a slightly different shape. So it was pretty nice to have the scene of the Enterprise looking like she was going to crash, then recovering, and then the bigger ship crashing instead. I also liked the way that the trailers made us assume that most of Harrison's dramatic lines were likely to be being delivered to Kirk, but then weren't when we saw them in situ.
The final fight between Spock and Khan went on for far too long, IMO. They basically jumped from one flying craft to another and then did the whole fight all over again, like we hadn't been paying attention the first time.
Chekov says he can't beam Spock and Khan up because they're moving about too much. This from the kid who raced halfway through the ship in the last movie to get to the transporter room because he knew how to beam up Kirk and Sulu as they were plummeting through the air at ballistic speed. And yet he can get Uhura down onto the moving vehicle with pinpoint accuracy.
And after being phasered about 15 times and barely blinking, the Big Bad is finally taken out with a punch?! All right, it was the last of many punches, but still ...
I may be the only Trekkie in the universe who has no interest in seeing this film. What Callie and Chris have just said, makes even less interested in seeing Into Darkness. At this point, I think I've probably seen my last Star Trek movie.
Well, Benn, you're certainly *not* the only one, believe me. Even though you dont talk to me anymore (you have your reasons I'm sure) you and I still have similar opinions and strong feelings about certain things. Especially about how the Abramsverse Trek is not the REAL Trek we know and love. And that's why I won't ever be seeing this one either.
It's nice to have people who feel the same way you do, isn't it? At least I think that. Sometimes, anyway!
To the best of my recollection (and my German friend asked the same question after she'd seen the movie), I don't think that the "You think your world is safe" speech from the trailers made it into the movie. Whether it was cut, or whether it was always recorded purely for the trailers and to melt the brains of the CumberCollective, remains to be seen.
I'll still buy the DVD - and if they don't include the cut scene of Harrison topless, there will be riots in the streets. I'll be the one at the front wearing the "Riot Organiser" badge. ;-)
I may be the only Trekkie in the universe who has no interest in seeing this film.
I really don't have much interest, either. Maybe on DVD, definitely not in a theater. In fact, I frequently forget the movie is going into release here in the States today (or is it tomorrow?) Also, it seems to me like this is the third remake (after Star Trek Nemesis and the 2009 Star Trek) of Wrath of Khan. That one was done right the first time; why do they have to keep doing it over and over?
Adam, you've hit the proverbial nail; I've already seen Wrath of Khan and love it. Why do I wanna see a remake with a couple of twists in it?
Callie, I was also thinking Botany Bay for a few moments when Scotty was investigating. Then I remembered the trailers. I do wonder how Scotty got on board. Didn't they save security checks? Maybe they assumed that if you knew where the ship was, then you were allowed there.
BTW: A summary of the movie is now on Wikipedia.
They have let the Khan out of the bag.
BTW: A summary of the movie is now on Wikipedia.
They have let the Khan out of the bag.
Ah, the age of the Internet
Going to see it tomorrow at the Hollywood Cinerama Dome
KAHNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
Charles, I know that was your evil twin, but...
Use a next day spoiler warning....
OK, so I've done myself wrong by reading these posts before going to see the movie and I'm loathing the idea that it's Khan Noonian fracking Singh instead of a fresh idea/plot contrivance, but you know what? I'm going to hold off judgment until after I see the movie as to whether it was the wrong move or not.
Chris (Terek): I can think of a better place to hide a spaceship: In Space! I refer to this using the term Unnecessary Coolness.
Chris, how long ago did you join the community? Back in the olden days, when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, the Guild had a bunch of acronyms, one of which applies here: BILC.
They hid the Enterprise under water because it had never been done before and having something 2,379 feet (725 meters) long rising out of the ocean is done Because It Looks Cool.
Oh, and with regards to any JJ Abrams project, remember the other prominent acronym PAL: Previews Always Lie!
Seen it, loved it.
The big ship is designed for combat, also to be run with a small crew, even a crew of one if necessary. It has a LOT of unnecessary and wasted space for such a ship.
Khan's physical abilities have been much enhanced since we saw him first in TOS: Space Seed.
Did none of the shuttles entering the secret ship building base near Jupiter notice that extra, unscheduled shuttle flying in to join their ranks? Security on that base was really pitiful.
And how can a starship park itself 20 minutes sub light distance from Kronos and not be instantly located by all the sensors that are undoubtedly monitoring the neutral zone all the time?
Khan was initially the only one revived in TOS:Space Seed. That did not stop him from taking control of the Enterprise in a very short time. How did Marcus manage to prevent the same fate from befalling him?
The rule flaunting, arrogant, "I am invincible" Kirk at the beginning of the movie kinda reminded me of the rule flaunting, arrogant, "I am invincible" Jean-Luc Picard of before his encounter with those three Norsicans.
Which begs the question of how Carol met Kirk in Prime Time. Maybe when he was on an assignment.
Maybe she was that blond lab technician Gary Mitchell had aimed at Kirk to distract him away Gary's own antics, the one Kirk almost ended up marrying? It always felt to me that Carol Marcus and that unnamed blond woman could have been one and the same.
Next Day Spoiler Bait
Next Day Spoiler Bait
Well, chalk me up as pleasantly surprised (again).
They've all grown into the characters a bit more -- Except Urban, because he nailed it in the first one.
Pine's Kirk was much better this time.
Quinto was definitely more Spock-like.
Pegg toned it down a lot, and it was a big improvement.
I didn't consider the Klingons a nit. Considering that we know that every Klingon has unique ridges, and we only saw ONE unmasked one, that may just be the way *his* ridges are.
I didn't consider the role reversal to be a gimmicky thing. I thought it was extremely well done.
Count me as another Botany Bay-er. Then when we saw the dock, I thought at first it was a Borg cube.
When they rebuilt/restored the Enterprise, did they use any of the tech from the secret dockyard?
IMHO, Khan's blood should not heal sick or dead people (or tribble), it should be a deadly poison to them. Since Khan is better "in every way", his immune system should also be better than our own. His blood injected into someone else would suddenly find itself immerse in what it would see as foreign tissue. The immune cells it contains should therefore get to work and attack that tissue, causing extensive, even lethal damage as it goes.
I was wondering if the fan talked about in Luigi's post of January 03, 2013 - 4:41 pm is still alive today. Sadly, no.
http://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/160avc/thank_you_rstartrek/
Callie, I had the same thought about the blood ... why not use the blood of the dude you just decanted? That said...
Potential Anti-nit: McCoy *KNEW* that Khan's blood would work. He didn't have time to test the other guy's.
Anti-anti-nit. Yes he did. Kirk was frozen.
MAJOR unrelated nit. They only had 72 cryotubes, and 73 "supermen". Where did the tube that they showed Khan in come from?
MAJOR unrelated nit. They only had 72 cryotubes, and 73 "supermen". Where did the tube that they showed Khan in come from?
They had time to either make one, or recover the one Khan was originally found in from wherever Marcus had stashed it.
Warning! The following list contains spoilers!
Top Ten ways an El-Aurian can tell if she is in an alternate reality:
10. Tasha Yar is alive, and serving on the Enterprise-D which is a ship of war against the Klingons.
09. Kirk’s dad, George, died early just after his son was born on a shuttlecraft.
08. The Enterprise (1701) was built in Riverside, Iowa. Once it was complete it was a large starship with advanced technology.
07. Kirk entered Starfleet Academy late.
06. Spock and Uhura are a couple.
Scratch that! Prime Time had young Spock in an arranged engagement with T’Pring, but I’m not sure why that would be altered until after the actual number 06 below. (BIITS!)
06. Spock’s mom died early, and the planet of Vulcan was destroyed.
05. There are two Spocks.
04. Kirk became Captain after only three years of attending Starfleet Academy.
03. Pike died early.
02. The Klingons look slightly different.
Scratch that! As with the first number 06, above, I’m not sure why that would be altered.
02. Khan seems to be a white Brit, and he does not quote from traditional proverbs or from classic literature.
Scratch that too.
02. Kirk dies via radiation while saving the Enterprise as Spock looks on. Kirk is later resurrected.
And the Number One way an El-Aurian can tell if she is in an alternate reality:
01. There are seatbelts on the Enterprise!
---Critical thoughts
I enjoyed the film. I did roll my eyes a bit at yet another attempt to go back to the Wrath of Khan well—granted, a rebooted TOS series has the right to do it more than the TNG films did, but still, with the 2009 film, I was hoping for new stories, instead of a retread of previous ones. To be fair, this film relied only on some iconic elements from Wrath, and did some new things too that were rather thrilling, like having the Vengeance knock the Enterprise out of warp, and creating a truly hateful villain in Admiral Marcus, but the problem with this is that it actually made Khan more sympathetic, which I don’t think is a great thing, if you’re going to have what is considered the greatest Trek villain ever in your film.
I also think I would’ve had less of a problem with it they actually had a person of color play Khan. First they had a Latino play him, but at least that’s a person of color. Now they have a Caucasian playing him?! WTF? Yes, I love Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock (can we get more episodes, please?), and he’s a very good actor, to put it mildly, but this is now the second summer movie this year to take a classic Asian villain from serialized popular fiction and have him played by a Caucasian. Again. WTF.
The only other problem I had with the film was with the relationship between Kirk and Spock. In both TOS and the first couple of TOS films, we got plenty of indications, subtle and not-so-subtle, that they were good friends who cared deeply about one another. Thus, when Spock died in Wrath, the pathos was palpable. I didn’t get that here in this film, in which Spock persistently addresses Kirk by his rank rather than by his name (despite addressing him by his name in Elder Spock’s ship in the 2009 film). Thus, when Spock starts crying and screaming Khan’s name at the end of this film, it seemed to come out of nowhere.
Other than that, it was enjoyable. While Admiral Marcus’ post-9/11 subtext was hardly subtle, I welcomed Scotty’s line about Starfleet having once been about exploration rather than militarization, and I do hope that with the five-year mission now on, that perhaps Abrams and company will have the next film involve encountering some new type of life form.
I’m glad the Klingons more or less look like their prime versions. We only see one of them without his helmet, and I think the biggest difference is that he doesn’t have hair. He isn’t the first Klingon to lack hair (Chang from ST VI didn’t have any), but I hope that the change doesn’t extend to all Klingons not having it. And the piercings are pretty cool too. I do wonder, however, if they all have the same ridges, unlike in the Prime Timeline. I ask, because all their helmets are the same, with the same ridges on them.
I like the fact that it took a year to repair the ship. This not only gives more spaces for the writers of licensed stories to set them in, but it makes far more sense than being immediately able to warp into the next adventure, or to have the ship essentially on cement blocks, as at the end of Star Trek Nemesis.
---NITS & NOTES
The device Spock drops into the volcano on Niburu is a "cold fusion" device. Cold fusion is simply a way of generating energy. Its name is derived from the fact that (according to its proponents) fusion can be achieved at room temperature, rather than in the high temperatures of a star, which is the natural fusion we are accustomed to. It does not refer to something that "turns things cold", as that device does with the volcanic magma.
Also, even if the device freezes the rock, it obviously didn’t freeze all the magma on the planet, did it? Nor did it cease all tectonic activity, did it? Won’t the volcano eventually become active again?
Also, I thought the Prime Directive required that pre-warp societies headed for extinction be allowed to go extinct, as established in Pen Pals (TNG) and Homeward (TNG). A change to the PD in this timeline?
Beginning with this movie, warp speed is shown to manifest itself in the form of a cylindrical field that envelops the starship, fading tendrils of which are left in a ship’s wake. Granted, it wasn’t in the 2009 film, but it looks kinda cool. Perhaps warp upgrades during the intervening years?
Hats are now part of the Starfleet uniform? Um…okay. I guess.
Why does Harrison/Khan bother piloting a ship and firing into the Starfleet meeting? Why not just remote pilot the ship? Or better yet, why not just beam a bomb into the meeting?
I noticed that at warp, there are “vents” or some type of panel that open up on the top of each of the nacelles. I don’t recall seeing these in the 2009 film. Are they new too?
One of the bridge crew on the Enterprise is a male with piercing blue eyes, an inhuman-sounding voice and some type of circular panel on the back of his head. Is this a Soong-type android? Or perhaps one of the Binars?
Why doesn’t Jupiter Station detect Scotty’s shuttle, even after he enters it? Why don’t those other ships entering do so?
So Harrison is really Khan Nonnien Singh. Okay, so why does this Caucasian have first, middle and surname that are Asian?
Tech change: When speaking to someone on the Enterprise bridge’s main viewer, the person’s image occupies only the center of the viewer, with the normal background on the left and right.
The Dreadnought-class starship commanded by Admiral Marcus is referred to as the Vengeance on Wikipedia, but I don’t recall any mention of this name in the film. Did I miss it?
Harrison/Khan has completely lost control of the Vengeance by the end of the film, and when he tells the computer to aim the ship at Starfleet headquarters, the computer tells him that it cannot comply with this. Yet magically, despite all the different points along the surface of the planet that the ship could’ve hit, it just managed to hit San Francisco!
When the Vengeance hits San Francisco Bay, it does so with the forward point of the saucer section first. But then it somehow rights itself enough for the saucer to make it over land as the ship continues lurching forward. How did it do this?
We saw quite a bit of London and San Francisco in this film. When Spock chased after Khan at the end, we saw some surface vehicles. I tried to see if any of them had wheels, to see if they’d contradict The 37s (VOY). I couldn’t see any. Did anyone else?
Bones uses Harrison/Khan’s blood to synthesize a serum to heal Kirk’s radiation injuries. Good thing their blood was compatible! (Or does that no longer matter with 2300’s medical science?)
The end of the film establishes that the “Where No Man…” quote is a Captain’s Oath.
It also establishes that the Enterprise’s five-year mission is the first for a Starfleet vessel.
---CONTINUITY REFERENCES
In the beginning of the movie, when Kirk is trying to convince Admiral Marcus to send him after Harrison/Khan, we see a couple of nice shots of a lineup of models of starships Enterprise. We see Archer’s NX-01, and before that, that skimpy “ring” ship seen in the rec room of The Motion Picture. What’s interesting is that there’s one with three nacelles in between the NX-01 and Kirk’s ship.
Harrison/Khan is said to be hiding on Kronos in Ketha Province. The Ketha Lowlands are the home of General Martok, as he stated in Once More Unto the Breach (DS9.
Admiral Marcus is the father of Carol Marcus, whom Kirk produced a son, as established in ST II.
The Starfleet Data Archive that is bombed by Harrison/Khan turns out to be an installation of Section 31, first established in Inquisition (DS9).
Kirk had a past dalliance with Christine Chapel, who later became a nurse.
Is the station in orbit around Jupiter supposed to be a version of Jupiter Station, which was first established as holodesigner Lewis Zimmerman’s assignment in The Cloud (VOY), and later mentioned in on Enterprise?
Bones says he once delivered Gorn octoplets via cesarian section. They bite.
I think there was a Tribble on Scotty’s lab on Delta Vega in the 2009 film (at least, I though I heard what sounded like one), but in this film, a Tribble plays an important plot point.
The Dreadnought-class starship commanded by Admiral Marcus is referred to as the Vengeance on Wikipedia, but I don’t recall any mention of this name in the film. Did I miss it?
Closing credits. Crew were referred to as "USS Vengeance Some Guy"
I love Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock (can we get more episodes, please?)
*pets Luigi*
They're filming Series 3 right now. No broadcast date has been given yet, but we believe it's likely to air in January.
Luigi_novi:
“I’m glad the Klingons more or less look like their prime versions. We only see one of them without his helmet, and I think the biggest difference is that he doesn’t have hair.”
As I recall, the eyes were more alien.
“I like the fact that it took a year to repair the ship.”
The Enterprise was under construction when Kirk entered the Academy, and it’s maiden voyage was three years later. So how long did it take to build the Vengeance? It seems that they started on it after finding Khan which was then after the events of the last movie. That was only a year ago according to the Stardate.
“Also, I thought the Prime Directive required that pre-warp societies headed for extinction be allowed to go extinct…”
It seemed to me that Pike was not only upset with Kirk for allowing the Enterprise to be seen, but also with trying to stop the volcano in the first place. Kirk tried to, unconvincingly, blame it on inaccurate reports.
Kirk has a past dalliance with Chapel? I don’t recall that.
When Kirk and Khan make their way to the Vengeance, they have to fly through a debris field created in the Vengeance's attack on the Enterprise. However, when Khan fires again on Enterprise and completely disables her engines, she starts falling toward Earth, meaning that the ships are not in orbit but hovering under power over the planet. If that is so, what was preventing the debris field from simply falling away and clearing the way?
Also, I thought the Prime Directive required that pre-warp societies headed for extinction be allowed to go extinct, as established in Pen Pals (TNG) and Homeward (TNG). A change to the PD in this timeline?
It is not. Spock strongly disaproved of Kirk's actions in saving the Nibiru people, Pike was REALLY angry about it and Starfleet demoted Kirk over it.
Spock claims that if the volcano erupts that it would destroy the entire planet. I don’t think one volcano can do that, unless they know it might start a chain reaction.
Well, planets do explode in the Trek universe. Ceti Alpha six is the most obvious example in the present context.
Marcus tells Kirk that the bombed facility was really a Section 31 complex. I thought section 31 was so secret that no one oustide of it knew of its existence
Speaking of Section 31, their security measures aren't worth spit. Harewood was scanned when he entered the complex he bombed, and they didn't detect the powerful explosive (possibly a small piece of antimatter) he was carrying.
Speaking of Harewood, the man was really sentimental for someone working for section 31. Khan recruits him to smuggle the bomb by promising to cure his daughter. Khan makes good on his promise, the daughter is cure. Harewood knows it, he's the one who administered the cure and watched it take effect. Why plant the bomb after that? He could, and should have informed his superiors of the threat instead.
First of all, I just want to say that I loved it. Fun film from start to finish, the cast continues to perform their roles wonderfully, Benedict Cumberbatch gave a fantastic performance, the film just looked beautiful, and overall a lovely thrill ride that defines what a summer popcorn flick should be.
I appreciated the nods thrown out there to the previous incarnations of Trek, indicating that they at least have paid some attention to what's come before. Models of the Phoenix and NX-01, Section 31, name drops for Mudd and Daystrom, a seed for Sulu's future in command, Chekov leaning on the Fourth Wall with his dismay at wearing a red shirt, and a mention of a Gorn.
That said, it suffered from some of the careless storytelling the previous film had, where details were glossed over or ignored for the whiz bang and BILC moments.
Security, first of all. No one seems to have any.
1) Somehow, Harrison is able to simply pilot an armed craft to attack Starfleet headquarters. Having Admiral Marcus perhaps dropping a line about him having access to Starfleet security codes or something might have taken care of that.
2) The Klingons apparently have almost no sensors of any kind. The Enterprise and the Mudd shuttle are able to simply fly to Kronos and are never challenged, in spite of the fact that Kirk and crew keep mentioning that they could be discovered any minute.
3) Scotty is able to fly a shuttle right up to that secret shipyard and join a group of other shuttles and like that school bus in The Dark Knight, no one notices the unidentified vessel that just flew in from somewhere else and joined the pack. Do these ships not have transponders or something? Something with which they identify each other so when some random ship shows up it can't just do exactly what Scotty did? The guy's supposed to be a technical genius, they could have had him handwave/rig up some identity that works, but apparently couldn't be bothered.
Why was the Enterprise underwater right next to this primitive village instead of, say, orbit? Sure, it looked neat to see it emerge, but that's just needlessly reckless? It was an ocean, wasn't it? Couldn't they have been submerged kilometers away and still flown the volcano in time to save Spock? This isn't a plane, after all, starships can fly rather fast and, oh yeah, rather high. Certainly high enough to stay out of the locals' sights.
For some reason, Khan's a white guy now. Not sure why that is.
Also, Carol Marcus has a British accent. Guess she decided to go American later on in life.
The movie also had a problem that usually plagued Enterprise in that warp seems to be able to get you places in a much shorter time than one would think. They seem to get to Klingon space and back in minutes. Even when going to warp will apparently lead to a damaging situation for the Enterprise, they get run down in a matter of minutes yet are somehow already at the Moon. I suppose a lot of time could have passed, but it sure didn't seem like it.
One more thing, I did wonder why Bones needed Khan's blood specifically and why his 72 crewmates couldn't have filled in to save Kirk. A line where McCoy gives a reason for that would have been nice.
quote:Terik: Spock claims that if the volcano erupts that it would destroy the entire planet. I don’t think one volcano can do that, unless they know it might start a chain reaction.
quote:Terik: Liked seeing Keenser (Deep Roy). According to Wikipedia, the actor was also in “Return of the Jedi”. Am I correct in saying that he is the only actor to be in both “Star Wars” and “Star Trek”?
quote:Callie: I'll be interested to see how other fans/regular viewers of Trek and Wrath of Khan in particular reacted to the switched scene between Kirk and Spock. I couldn't decide whether it was rather cute or whether it was clever for the sake of clever.
quote:Benn: Adam, you've hit the proverbial nail; I've already seen Wrath of Khan and love it. Why do I wanna see a remake with a couple of twists in it?
quote:Terik: BTW: A summary of the movie is now on Wikipedia.
They have let the Khan out of the bag.
quote:ScottN: Count me as another Botany Bay-er. Then when we saw the dock, I thought at first it was a Borg cube.
quote:Franc0is: IMHO, Khan's blood should not heal sick or dead people (or tribble), it should be a deadly poison to them. Since Khan is better "in every way", his immune system should also be better than our own. His blood injected into someone else would suddenly find itself immerse in what it would see as foreign tissue. The immune cells it contains should therefore get to work and attack that tissue, causing extensive, even lethal damage as it goes.
quote:Luigi Novi: and creating a truly hateful villain in Admiral Marcus, but the problem with this is that it actually made Khan more sympathetic, which I don’t think is a great thing, if you’re going to have what is considered the greatest Trek villain ever in your film.
quote:Luigi Novi: this is now the second summer movie this year to take a classic Asian villain from serialized popular fiction and have him played by a Caucasian. Again. WTF.
quote:Luigi Novi: So Harrison is really Khan Nonnien Singh. Okay, so why does this Caucasian have first, middle and surname that are Asian?
quote:Luigi Novi: The Dreadnought-class starship commanded by Admiral Marcus is referred to as the Vengeance on Wikipedia, but I don’t recall any mention of this name in the film. Did I miss it?
Josh, the only reference to it as the Vengeance was in the closing credit. There was at least one credit for "USS Vengeance Security Officer" \i((I'm guessing this is the guy who interrupts Scotty)}.
In the movie the "Vengance bridge crew" is mentioned on the radio as Scotty enters the ship.
Is any one bothered by Carol Marcus' accent. Dr. Marcus in TWOK sounded like Barbra Walters. Her dad, in this movie, has a Upper Midwest accent. (Detroit?). In short, The new Marcus having a British accent makes no sense at all. (It's worse the Picards' "French" accent.)
Potential anti-nit. Due to the altered timeline, Carol was raised in England instead of the US.
Josh M
"It was an ocean, wasn't it? Couldn't they have been submerged kilometers away and still flown the volcano in time to save Spock? This isn't a plane, after all, starships can fly rather fast and, oh yeah, rather high. Certainly high enough to stay out of the locals' sights."
Another question: If flying out of the ocean means that they get seen by the Natives, then how did they get in the ocean in the first place without being seen?
Yeah, really. Did the Enterprise submerge thousands of miles from the volcano, and then "swim" all that way?
Chris (Terik): Kirk has a past dalliance with Chapel? I don’t recall that.
Luigi Novi: Carol mentions it in a scene she has with Kirk.
Terik: Am I correct in saying that he is the only actor to be in both “Star Wars” and “Star Trek”?
Luigi Novi: I think there've been a couple of others, but I'm not sure, and can't remember which ones.
JoshM: I did have some sympathy for him. Until he squeezed Marcus' head until he died..
Luigi Novi: Marcus had it coming, given how many people he wantonly murdered, and how many more he intended to.
In short, The new Marcus having a British accent makes no sense at all.
Of course, she's played by a British actress, but we don't deal in reality.
Amazon and Best Buy are already taking pre-orders for the DVD and Blu-Ray, even though there's no firm release date. More here.
Continuity nit: When Kirk and Spock press their hands together on the door, when Kirk's hand drops, you can see Spock's hand is in a Vulcan salute. The immediate cut to the outside show's Spock's hand with all fingers spread.
Oops.... "shows" not "show's"
quote:Ccabe: Is any one bothered by Carol Marcus' accent. Dr. Marcus in TWOK sounded like Barbra Walters. Her dad, in this movie, has a Upper Midwest accent. (Detroit?). In short, The new Marcus having a British accent makes no sense at all.
quote:Luigi Novi: JoshM: I did have some sympathy for him. Until he squeezed Marcus' head until he died..
Luigi Novi: Marcus had it coming, given how many people he wantonly murdered, and how many more he intended to.
Everything you wanted to know about what goes on in STID. Warning for bad language (use of the f-word), but it's hilarious!
Let me see if I understand this (I don't):
After Vulcan was destroyed, Marcus w/ Section 31 searched the Quadrant for anything that could help the Federation. He finds a 300 year old spaceship called the Botany Bay w/73 frozen people. Marcus thaws the leader who is Khan, but keeps the other 72 hostage. He gets Khan up-to-speed on 23rd Century tech and has him design a battle starship and long-range torpedoes. Marcus also creates a fake id for Khan. Of course, he could have called him Agent Khan and no one (except us) would be the wiser.
Khan designs & makes the stuff, and the torpedoes 'happen' to number 72. Maybe he told Marcus "I will make one torpedo to honor each of my crewmates." And Marcus would say "whatever, just give me weapons". Unknown to Marcus, Khan put his crewmates into the torpedoes. Did he make all the torpedoes by himself? Maybe he bribed a much of Section 31 staff w/ his blood. Also, why didn't he free his crewmates if he had the chance?
Anyway, when everything is ready Khan attacks a secret Section 31 place under a library cause he knows that Starfleet will then meet in an office. Then he attacks the office and beams to Kronos cause he knows that Starfleet will follow because Marcus wants to fight the Klingons.
Sure enough, Marcus allows Kirk to follow and gives him all 72 torpedoes. I hope he knows how to make more.
Later, when Khan reveals himself to Kirk and Kirk asks for one reason to investigate a certain place in space, Khan says he has 72 reaons that are currently on the ship. "They have been all along."
Well it was Sulu and then Kirk that told him that they now have the 72 weapons. And sure they're been there all along, because it's not like they would stop somewhere along the way to pick them up.
Luigi_novi said: "So Harrison is really Khan Nonnien Singh. Okay, so why does this Caucasian have first, middle and surname that are Asian?"
Presumably Khan underwent some sort of cosmetic surgery to change his appearance, otherwise people might have noticed he was a dead ringer for the guy who once ruled 1/4th of the Earth.
However, I don't know why that would include changing his skin tone.
And why does Khan have an English accent now?
Maybe for some reason he was rebuilt to impersonate a particular individual, John Harrison, who already existed?
Phaser stun should have worked on Khan. Lets have a look at another super human, Gary Seven. He too could withstand the Vulcan neck pinch, he too was able to engage and vanquish many people in hand to hand combat(including a Vulcan, no mean feat), yet a single phaser stun blast dropped him like a stone.
Presumably Khan underwent some sort of cosmetic surgery to change his appearance,
I wonder how effective cosmetic surgery would be on an individual with his kind of regenerative power.
Maybe for some reason he was rebuilt to impersonate a particular individual, John Harrison, who already existed?
No, Kirk confronts him about that identity after capturing him, stating that no trace of a John Harrison exists prior to a few years.
Terik, if you remember from Space Seed(TOS), Khan's unit was rigged to revive him first.
Nit. On the Botany Bay, they weren't in "cryopods". They were in integrated sleeper units.
I guess this is what I get for waiting until after the weekend to see this movie, all the good stuff is already taken
I enjoyed the movie much more than I thought I would, and I was expecting to at least like it. There were of course things that really didn't need to be changed, and several BILC moments, most of which has already been mentioned, but they didn't bother me as much as I presumed.
When we first get a glimpse of Khan/John at the hospital the camera zooms in on him as if we're suppose to know who he is on sight. Although Benedict Cumberbatch is a wonderful and well-known actor, and spoilers has revealed who his character was likely to be long ago, for direction purposes I don't think it made much sense. Speaking of that scene, Harrison didn't wait very long for his daughter's vitals to improve before he left to fulfill his half of the bargain.
I'm sure this has been done in ST before but Peter Weller has played a villain already, with pretty much the same personality, in Terra Prime and Demons on ENT.
Although I appreciate the realism I didn't care for the engine room here, or more specifically the warp core. Parts of it were apparently filmed at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, which I'm sure has many 'futuristic' pieces of equipment to use as backdrop, but it just didn't do it for me. From the same article I learned this from, parts of the ship were also filmed in a brewery, which is what gave the interior much more of an industrial look in this movie and the previous.
Callie: The final fight between Spock and Khan went on for far too long, IMO. They basically jumped from one flying craft to another and then did the whole fight all over again, like we hadn't been paying attention the first time.
I felt the same way. The movie in general was longer than it needed to be IMO.
ScottN: I didn't consider the role reversal to be a gimmicky thing. I thought it was extremely well done.
I did as well, except when Spock did the Khan yell; I don't feel that worked with the scene or character development of this Spock.
Luigi: He isn’t the first Klingon to lack hair (Chang from ST VI didn’t have any), but I hope that the change doesn’t extend to all Klingons not having it.
I believe Chang had a very thin tail of hair down the back of his head.
Luigi: One of the bridge crew on the Enterprise is a male with piercing blue eyes, an inhuman-sounding voice and some type of circular panel on the back of his head.
Due to his baldness I thought he was an Abrams-version of a Deltan.
LN: What’s interesting is that there’s one with three nacelles in between the NX-01 and Kirk’s ship.
I may be misremembering, I suppose I'll have to watch the movie again but I thought that model was of the same class as the Kelvin from the 2009 film.
Terik: Kirk has a past dalliance with Chapel? I don’t recall that.
LN: Carol mentions it in a scene she has with Kirk.
I'm not sure about this but Terik may have been questioning whether or not Kirk and Chapel did indeed have a fling in TOS and not just flirting. I apologize if Luigi answered the question properly.
Oh, I get it now. Well, Uhura didn't have a relationship with Spock, but we have it now in the Abramsverse. Changes to the timeline are a given.
The whitewashed casting on Khan really bugged me. They could manage a better and less problematic story in 1967!
Regarding Kirk and Chapel:
I was mostly thinking TOS Prime Time.
In this movie, I do recall Carol telling Kirk that she's friends with the nurse. She realizes Kirk doesn't remember her. But I didn't catch a mention of a dalliance. Not sure if even Kirk would do that with a crew member under his command. But he will with Carol (I hope). I took the Chapel reference as referring to Majel being in a better place.
The conversation doesn't indicate that Chapel was under her command. It could've been an outside-of-command situation, like those two women he has some fun with in the episode, or he could've known Chapel while he was at the Academy, or even before the Academy.
Though we do know Chapel was on the Enterprise at some point since McCoy calls to her in the first movie. We do not know if she stayed on after Kirk took command.
quote:Terik: Marcus also creates a fake id for Khan. Of course, he could have called him Agent Khan and no one (except us) would be the wiser.
quote:Terik: Khan designs & makes the stuff, and the torpedoes 'happen' to number 72. Maybe he told Marcus "I will make one torpedo to honor each of my crewmates."
quote:Terik: Unknown to Marcus, Khan put his crewmates into the torpedoes. Did he make all the torpedoes by himself?
An addendum to the issue of Marcus' accent: While it's not impossible for someone with an American parent to have grown up in Britain, it should be noted that Alice Eve can do an American accent, as she has done so in previous movies, like She's Out of Your League.
Josh M:
Marcus put Khan's crew into torpedoes
I was thinking that might have happened, but I wasn't sure.
Scotty was not allowed to know the details, probably because of the bodies, and Khan would have nothing to do with that order. Also, Carol said the missiles were something dad kept from her; hence her interest.
So did Marcus know in advance that Khan would strike and then escape to Kronos where long range torpedoes would have an excuse to be used? He was in the room during the 2nd attack & could've been killed.
That part of the story is very confusing. What was Khan trying to accomplish exactly? Kill Marcus? Scare him? Start a war with the Klingons? A war would actually be a good thing for him, it was what he knew how to do best. He seemed surprised when he learned the kind of weapon aimed at him, he did not expect his frozen companions to be thrown into the situation, so he changed tactic and surrendered to Kirk. That doesn't explain what his initial plan was.
Speaking of plans, after Kirk and Scott helped him get to the Vengeance, he no longer needed them. He should have killed them right there and then before proceeding to the bridge.
What did Marcus know and when did he know it?
There are a few possibilities:
1. Khan knew but Marcus did not. Khan himself made the torpedoes and somehow included his crewmates instead of freeing them. He attacked and escaped to Kronos knowing that the torpedoes would be fired at him. He rigged the weapons so they wouldn't explode and he would then free his crew.
2. Marcus and Khan both knew about the plan and the torpedoes. They conspired together and used each other. Marcus promised to deliver the crew via torpedoes in exchange for Khan helping start war with the Klingons. For some reason Marcus planned for Khan to strike at the secret Section 31 area, instead of another Starfleet location. He also planned for Khan to strike the office even though he himself could have been killed. When Kirk didn't fire at Khan, Khan then took advantage.
3. Marcus knew about the torpedoes but Khan did not. Khan alone planned the attacks due to his crew being held hostage. He just happened to escape to a place where only long-range torpedoes could be used. Or perhaps Marcus rigged the transport knowing that Khan would try something. When Khan did escape, Marcus took advantage and sent Kirk with the torpedoes hoping to get rid of all 73 in one blow and also start a war. Only when Khan heard the number 72 did he realize what Marcus did.
4. Marcus and Khan both knew about the torpedoes but Khan alone planned the attacks. He wanted to force Marcus to use the torpedoes against him for a chance to get his crew. A gamble, but it seemed to be working when Kirk said he had the 72 weapons but didn't fire.
*dies happy*
So, Enterprise is now on its five year mission. There are plenty of things Kirk encountered in the original timeline that have not been changed in the altered one. Nomad is still out there sterilizing imperfect lifeforms. Lazarus is still trying to kill anti-Lazarus and destroy two universes in the process. The planet killer is still munching on star system after star system. The Kelvans are still on their way to conquer the Milkyway, etc, etc,. How much of all of this does J.J. Abrams intend to address, or is he just going to brush it all aside and pretend it just does not matter?
It doesn't matter. They're just movies.
So, Enterprise is now on its five year mission. There are plenty of things Kirk encountered in the original timeline that have not been changed in the altered one. Nomad is still out there sterilizing imperfect lifeforms. Lazarus is still trying to kill anti-Lazarus and destroy two universes in the process. The planet killer is still munching on star system after star system. The Kelvans are still on their way to conquer the Milkyway, etc, etc,. How much of all of this does J.J. Abrams intend to address, or is he just going to brush it all aside and pretend it just does not matter?
I've been giving this some thought. As most of you may know, one of the things that puzzled me about the first movie was how the NCC 1701, both inside and outside, looked very different from what it did on TOS. That could not be explained away by Nero's arrival creating a new universe.
Well, this movie only furthers that. Khan is now an Englishman, not an Indian. Since Khan was born more than three centuries earlier, once again this cannot be laid at Nero's door.
Conclusion: Nero did not create this universe, it was already there, he just appeared in it. Remember the episode Parallels from TNG. It said there was countless parallel realities existing alongside Trek Reality Prime. Some had technology different than Prime (Worf was confused by some).
Clearly, this universe is one of them, and the technology of the 23rd Century was slightly different than that of Prime. Grantly, Nero showing up has affected the course of history this universe will follow, but it was there all along.
Bearing this in mind, it's a whole new roll of the dice. Who says things will happen the same way they will in Prime. Perhaps in this universe, the Kelvins never left Andromeda, or maybe when their ship was destroyed by the barrier at the edge of the galaxy, there were no survivors.
So the five year mission will happen, but it will not be the same as the one in Prime. Nero's arrival in this universe effectively eliminated the events of Space Seed, Amok Time, Journey To Babel, and the movie Wrath Of Khan. Who know how the dice will roll for the rest of the mission.
In reality it doesn't matter because they're just movies. But I don't deal in reality.
I'm with Franc0is is saying that there should be aliens 'out there' regardless of the altered reality. But I do like the view proposed by Tim_m that it was altered before Nero. This would explain the advanced Kelvin. I submit that it was altered by the events shown during the "Enterprise" prequel show. Only problem with that is, despite time-travel being discovered earlier, that show maintained that it was somehow part of Prime Time.
Anyway, in the new altered reality the five-year mission begins in the year 2260. In Prime Time the mission ended probably in 2269 (according to Trek Chronology), meaning it began in 2264.
The next movie could show aliens we've seen on TOS before, but the crew would meet them earlier. Or the feature could have original aliens.
Here is where the concept of a prequel gives Nitpicking Trekkers a headache:
If they show known aliens, then we will think: "We've already seen this story!"
If they show original aliens, then we will think: "Why haven't we seen these aliens before?"
They're between a rock and hard place. A Catch-22.
It has long been the established m.o. on the part the creators to have various statuses end up identically across multiple realities in Trek (for example, the crew of every Enterprise or Deep Space Nine are all there in the Mirror Universe, with only minimal changes). Externally this is due to narrative necessity. Internally (and this may be offered to those who "don't deal in reality"), it can be speculated that there is something about the way the universe works to keep things like this, similar to how Hartdegen's sweetheart, Sienna kept getting killed over and over no matter how much he went back in time to change things in the 2002 version of The Time Machine, or how the Terminator stated in Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines that history cannot be changed, only that events like Judgment Day can be delayed. An example of this that we already have seen established in the Abramsverse is that the entire bridge crew/senior staff of Kirk's Enterprise came onto the ship around the same time as he did, which we know didn't happen in the Primeverse. Even 17-year-old Chekhov is there, even though he didn't appear on TOS until the second season premiere, Amok Time.
As far as the Narada and the singularity, I have a question: Did it go through the singularity near the destruction of Romulus? If so, then wouldn't there have been a lot of debris going through the singularity too, perhaps before the Narada did? If so, then various bits of debris could've come out before the Narada did (remember that Elder Spock stated that the Narada went through before Spock's red matter ship did, and that therefore, the Narada came out first.) Similarly, what if lots of bits of debris came out in the 2200s, perhaps at various points in space?
KABLOOEY! Oops. There goes the Nomad. Destroyed by a piece of an alternate future Romulus.
KA-BLAM! A piece of debris smashes into Lazarus' dimension ship, trapping him in between universes, just like at the end of The Alternative Factor.
BOOM! A piece of debris smashes into the Kevans' ship, causing it to veer off course, straight into the maw of the Doomsday Machine, causing an antimatter explosion that disables the thing.
There. It doesn't matter.
Implausible you say?
No more implausible than the entire mirror version of Kirk's Enterprise crew being on the Mirror Enterprise in Mirror, Mirror. Or the NX-01 crew in In a Mirror, Darkly (ENT). Or 17-year-old Chekhov being on the Enterprise in the 2009 film.
The guys at Red Letter Media/Half In The Bag have their summary/review ready:
http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag/2013-episodes/
As far as seeing stories/aliens we've seen before, I wouldn't mind the following:
"The Corbomite Maneuver" where They use effects from "Hobbit" so that Clint Howard can play a small Balok.
Mudd. I didn't realize until later that the craft Kirk flew to Kronos came from Mudd. He could be played by Simon Pegg's friend Nick Frost.
"Amok Time" on New Vulcan because Spock still has to go through Pon Farr, but not until the year 2267. (Which means his previous cycle should be 2260 during the end of this current movie). Instead of Kirk fighting, They would pull a switch and have Uhura versus T'Pring. Girl fight!
"Mirror, Mirror" where the switch is that Spock goes and is replaced by bearded bad Spock who tries to take over good Enterprise. Meanwhile good Spock is conflicted cause Vulcan exists in the bad universe. Also, the I.S.S Enterprise is advanced, but not because of Nero, but because of the Defiant from "The Tholian Web".
"The Deadly Years" where some of the crew age. Pine becomes Shatner, Saldana becomes Nichols, Cho becomes Takei, and Yelchin becomes Koenig.
Klingons! All of them: Classic smooth heads, the popular one with ridges, and the new ones.
KABLOOEY! Oops. There goes the Nomad. Destroyed by a piece of an alternate future Romulus.
Right, the same Nomad that could take everything the Enterprise threw at it and keep coming.
BOOM! A piece of debris smashes into the Kevans' ship
The Kevans? Who are they!? I've heard of the Kelvins, of course, but this other race eludes me
Anyway, another item to support the Abrams universe was there before Nero is the stardates, Notice they are much closer to the Gregorian calendar here. The Federation of this universe created a different time system.
Also, it is likely the all Vulcan crew of the Intrepid was saved. First, because Spock Prime would have likely warned them about the giant amoeba, and second, they would most likely be needed to help settle New Vulcan.
As for the five year mission, one must remember that, due to Nero, the careers of Kirk and Co. were fasttracked. This means they got a five to ten year headstart on their Prime counterparts. Many of Prime adventures won't happen simply because the Enterprise won't be there at the correct time.
Right, the same Nomad that could take everything the Enterprise threw at it and keep coming.
Luigi Novi: But what if a big honkin' piece of Romulus smashed into it?
The Kevans? Who are they!? I've heard of the Kelvins, of course, but this other race eludes me.
Luigi Novi: They're a race whose adventures are narrated by Daniel Stern. They bear a remarkable resemblance to Fred Savage.
Hey-o!!!! http://www.instantrimshot.cfom
Darn it. http://www.instantrimshot.com
I'm glad DelToro wasn't Khan. Despite the ridiculousness of a British white actor playing a guy named Khan Noonian Singh, he was an excellent villain, who kept my attention when he spoke.
I hated the four utterings of the 'sh' swear word. Kirk, Carol Marcus and Admiral Marcus all use it, while Scotty's 'sh' word is cut in half and finished with a swishing sound effect of an Enterprise door. I didn't like McCoy calling Spock a green-blooded S.o.B. in STIII, but the 'sh' word is crossing the line for me. Keep it clean next time, J.J.!
How was Kirk able to speak to Scotty from Kronos to Earth, using a mere communicator? Shouldn't this have been a scene using Uhura's station on the bridge?
I actually didn't notice the lens glare so much in my first viewing, but it was much more obvious in my second.
What possible advice could Old Spock have given Young Spock?
TV series - Khan's people were knocked out by gas and Kirk beat him up in engineering.
STTWOK - Kirk uses a pre-fix code trick to lower Reliant's shields to get in some phaser shots. Later, he uses code to trick Khan into thinking Enterprise is too damaged to beam them up from Regulus. He goads Khan into flying into a nebula after the Enterprise, where the two starships shoot at each other until Kirk outmaneuvers him.
I didn't see any of that helping Young Spock, when he dealt with Khan.
And now to the comments...
Luigi - "Thank God: J.J. Abrams has said no to taking on the next Star Wars movie."
Since we know that he is going to direct it, what do you think about that now?
Kyle - "So my very loose analysis says this is the ship that Kirk and someone else do a space-jump to reach. " and " what if John Harrison is part of Section 31? "
Kyle, you're either amazingly insightful or you saw a copy of the script! With deductive capabilties like that you should be a private detective!
Luigi - "Abrams changed the Klingons. Why has he done this? I don't get it. Again, I don't get it. What was wrong with the way Klingons looked?"
I'm grinning ear to ear about that one, Luigi! I know you've commented about this and other things since then, but I'm just responding to the page as a whole. Abrahms changed the actors, changed their relationships, their career paths, changed the Enterprise, changed Vulcan and Romulan history, changed the phasers and the unifroms, changed the corridors and transporter, and the shuttles, and you were wondering, why he changed the Klingon's appearance? Because he's J.J. frickin' Abrahms, and he changed everything else! Not to mention changing things for the sake of toys and merchandise, it seems odd that you'd think that the Klingons were somehow perfect and untouchable, but everything else was fair game.
Callie - " Chekov says he can't beam Spock and Khan up because they're moving about too much. This from the kid who raced halfway through the ship in the last movie to get to the transporter room because he knew how to beam up Kirk and Sulu as they were plummeting through the air at ballistic speed. And yet he can get Uhura down onto the moving vehicle with pinpoint accuracy."
Yea, that made me roll my eyes worse than the silly Starfleet hats! The Enterprise is moving in space, the planet is spinning on its axis, and moving through space as it orbits the Sun, and yet these high-tech transporters can't beam something up from a moving target, which is already moving, but it can beam people DOWN???
Yeah.
Right.
Benn - " I've already seen Wrath of Khan and love it. Why do I wanna see a remake with a couple of twists in it?"
Trust me, Benn, this movie is no more a remake of Wrath of Khan than The Hangover Part 3 is! It's got character names, but there's no David Marcus, no Captain Terrell, no USS Reliant, no Genesis Project, no depressed-about-aging Kirk, and no cadets on board.
They plucked some names out of Trek history and that's it. This Khan is deadly and dangerous, but he's no Ricardo Montalban!
Francois - " Khan's blood should not heal sick or dead people (or tribble), it should be a deadly poison to them."
I agree. Otherwise, what's the point of categorizing them Type A, Type O positive, etc.?
Luigi - "Hats are now part of the Starfleet uniform? Um…okay. I guess."
No! Not okay with that! They looked out of place and just plain dumbdumbdumb!
Spock in a hat looks...ugh.
And I might be stretching this a bit, but the gray dress uniforms with that cap reminded me too much of 1940's Nazi uniforms.
Luigi - "The Dreadnought-class starship commanded by Admiral Marcus is referred to as the Vengeance on Wikipedia, but I don’t recall any mention of this name in the film. Did I miss it?"
and
ScottN - "Josh, the only reference to it as the Vengeance was in the closing credit."
Actually, someone calls it the Vengeance. I forget who had the dialogue, but I needed to see the movie a second time to catch its naming, but it's there.
Josh M - "It was an ocean, wasn't it?"
I assumed it was an ocean. Although, I can't see the other side of Lake Ontario, so it could have been a very big lake similar to one of Earth's Great Lakes.
Yea, that made me roll my eyes worse than the silly Starfleet hats! The Enterprise is moving in space, the planet is spinning on its axis, and moving through space as it orbits the Sun, and yet these high-tech transporters can't beam something up from a moving target, which is already moving, but it can beam people DOWN???
Yeah.
Right.
Actually, that makes perfect sense. All of these motions are PREDICTABLE (planet spinning, orbiting ship, linear motion of the vehicules, etc.), except for the two guys darting around UNPREDICTABLY here, there and back again as they fight.
True, but we've seen Kirk order the transporter on a wide-field setting (once to beam up his landing party and Kang's men). The beam just had to encompass the diameter of the top of the moving vehicle.
Which brings me to another point nobody has mentioned; Spock states that the transporter can't differentiate between McCoy's arm and the torpedo it's stuck in? Say what? The transporter is supposed to be technologically advanced enough to know flesh and bone from metal. It made for a neat, tense moment, but in the Trek universe it makes no sense at all.
If McCoy was sitting down, would the transporter tell the operator that it couldn't tell the difference between McCoy and a chair? I think not!
Saw the feature a second time.
“What Marcus knew and when he knew it”:
Khan somehow put the bodies in the torpedoes, instead of freeing them, without notice until he was discovered. He was able to escape but assumed that Marcus killed his crew. Thus he arranged the first attack and tried to kill Marcus during the second attack before escaping to Kronos. He would have been out of reach if not for Marcus willing to start war with the torpedoes. Only when he heard the number 72 did he realize that his crew was, somewhat, still safe.
When Scotty first found the Vengeance, I did hear others communicate and the ship’s name was mentioned.
The order of events was rather close: Kirk reported the capture of ‘John’ back to Starfleet and thus Marcus knew. Khan tells Kirk to check out the coordinates. Kirk tells Scotty to check out the coordinates. Scotty checks out the coordinates and finds the ship. THEN the ship leaves after Kirk.
When Carol talked with Kirk about Chapel, I think that she said Chapel became a nurse and going elsewhere after she met Kirk. But Chapel was a nurse in Trek ’09. Also, it is still unclear to me if Chapel and Kirk were together; only that Chapel told Carol about Kirk’s reputation.
I have a question regarding warp: When the Vengeance caught up with Enterprise in warp, it fired. However, phasers and torpedoes do not go faster than light. So what happens if a faster-than-light car turns on its headlights? I suppose the weapons could exceed lightspeed if they were in the warp bubble.
Then the Enterprise left warp early due to damage (again). During Trek ’09, Spock said there could be a problem with stopping mid-warp, but I never heard that before, and it didn’t seem to hurt the ship anymore than it already was.
Also, notice the ship stopped close enough to Earth so that when it lost power it fell. How much longer were they wanting to stay in warp?
While falling, Sulu said they needed power back for shields to avoid burning during re-entry. We do see the ship burn a bit, but it didn’t seem to be a problem for the crew.
Regarding beaming up Khan (and then Spock): There were two problems reported. The first was that the damage to the ship prevented them receiving a signal. When Kirk fell in Trek ’09, he did have a signal from the communicator. The second problem was that Spock and Khan were moving around on the garbage craft that was also moving. I don’t think this second problem should be an issue unless it was in combination with the first problem.
In my first post movie post, I commented on the lines from the trailer. I noticed this time some that were missing or altered. Marcus does not tell Kirk that “Starfleet is not about vendetta”, and Kirk does not reply “perhaps it should be”. Khan does not say “enjoy these last moments of peace”, but he does talk about peace. Also, he does not say “you think you’re world is safe”, but I think he says “you think you’re safe; you are not” when they try to warp from the Vengeance.
According to an old report, Abrams is the same guy who ensured that the Statute of Liberty lost her head in “Cloverfield” because of a misleading ad for “Escape From New York”. Talk about misleading.
Why was the Enterprise under the ocean instead of being in orbit? BIWLC (Because It Would Look Cool) of course to see it rising like a U-Boat?
A couple more observations:
Marcus was able to beam Carol from Enterprise.
Later, Spock had to lower shilds to allow Khan to beam torpedoes. I don't recall any dialogue about shields being down and then being repaired.
Also, Kirk & Khan had to fly in space to get to Vengeance due to being unable to beam. And Spock told Khan that he was unable to beam torpedoes. But later Spock and then Uhura were able to beam down to Earth. Again, I don't recall dialogue that transport was fixed.
Plinkett has a 7 minute video he calls Star Trek Into Reference. It can be viewed at Red Letter Media or YouTube.
Caution: Spoilers and language!
Okay, a volcanic eruption can wipe out a WHOLE planet? We've had some bad ones here on Earth (Krakatoa comes to mind here), but never enough to wipe out the whole population.
Loved McCoy's line about Kirk stunning their ride.
I still wonder why the Enterprise was under water and not in orbit?
Admiral Marcus is really not that bright, is he? Let's thaw out this genetically enhanced augment that tried to take over Earth. Let's give him access to our super duper secrets and weapons. What could possible go wrong? Duhhhhhh....
Scotty's comments about Marcus's mooks is interesting, are they private security (AKA hired thugs). I can't see any Starfleet officer going along with Marcus and his illegal orders. Even in World War II, German soldiers had the right to refuse to obey illegal orders (which was brought up at Nuremburg).
The 20th Century scientists must really have souped up their DNA materials in this universe. This Khan seems much tougher than Khan Prime. Kirk pummels him, he just stands there and takes it. A Vulcan nerve pinch doesn't work, and he takes SEVERAL hits from phasers on stun and keeps fighting. Also, he crashes a starship into San Francisco, and walks away.
How close is Kronos to Earth? They seem to get there and back pretty fast.
When Kirk, Spock, Uhura, and two red shirts go down to Kronos, guess which two don't make it back?
Admiral Marcus's death, he got what he deserved, he owned it completely. As Khan said, he should have let him (Khan) sleep.
BOOM! There goes Alcatraz. Khan took out the whole prison on his way down.
Nice cameo by Leonard Nimoy as Spock Prime, helping his people rebuild in this universe, instead of trying to find a way back to his own (like the Guardian of Forever, for example).
The Mudd Incident. Nice touch.
In the end, Khan and Co. are put back in the cooler. So they can come back again someday, I guess.
Benedict Cumberbatch is great as Khan. I can see why Callie admires this terrific actor.
Couple of Doctor Who connections here. Noel Clarke, who plays Khan's pawn at the start of the movie, was Mickey, a Comppanion in both the Eccelston and Tennant eras. Deep Roy, who played Scotty's little buddy, played Mr. Sin in the 70's Who story The Talons Of Weing-Chiang.
A great movie.
Okay, a volcanic eruption can wipe out a WHOLE planet? We've had some bad ones here on Earth (Krakatoa comes to mind here), but never enough to wipe out the whole population.
Actually, we do have volcanos of this kind on Earth. They are called (what else) supervolcanos. The best known is Yellowstone national park. Yes, almost the whole park sits in the crater of an active supervolcano.
A more relevant one is the Toba supervolcano on the island of Sumatra. It last erupted about 70000 year ago and is believed to have reduced the world wide human population to something like one to three thousand breeding pairs. Had that eruption been somewhat more powerful, which was entirely possible, it would have wiped out all of humanity.
Yes, but supervolcanos don't look like you average run of the mill one, like this one did. If it had erupted, it might have been trouble for the locals (the ones chasing Kirk and McCoy), but the rest of the planet would have been okay.
I guess the Marla McGivers of this universe will live to a ripe old age, since she is clearly never going to meet Khan (and end up on Ceti Alpha V to fall victim to an eel).
And the Mutara Nebula will still exist into the 2300's, since it's not destroyed by the Genesis Device.
>And the Mutara Nebula will still exist into the 2300's, since it's not destroyed by the Genesis Device.>
Not necessarily. It could be blown up by the Klingons or Capt. Kirk or a lot of other people.
The nebula was pretty darned big. Big enough for two starships to muddle about in and fight.
It's possible that there will be no Genesis in this universe, the Carol Marcus here might follow a different path.
The two universes are moving farther and farther apart, it seems.
Can we take up a collection to blow up the Mutara Nebula? Why? Because it is there.
This movie is available on dvd while its on its first run in theatres (just orderd from Amazon.com).
---------------
also Lincoln on dvd after it was on its first run in theatres...
BOOM! There goes Alcatraz. Khan took out the whole prison on his way down.
quote:
Possibly that was JJ Abrams' dig at Fox. Who cancelled his 2012 series Alcatraz after just 13 episodes.
Memory Alpha has a good summary of the movie:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Into_Darkness
Makes it easy to review and nitpick!
Shall we begin (again)?
Kirk has just stunned their "ride".
Why didn’t Bone tell him earlier that he found a ride? How were they going to ride that thing anyway?
Spock is encased in a heat suit, and preparing to drop a cold fusion device...
Cold fusion doesn’t work that way.
...stop a cataclysmic eruption from extinguishing life on the planet.
I think the actual line from the movie implied the entire planet itself was at risk, but Spock could have meant just the life. The difference being: If only life died, then someone could come along later and live on the planet. This is either a super volcano that doesn’t look like it, or the only life lives near the worst spot on the planet.
Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott is still not happy that they are hiding at the bottom of an ocean.
And why is a space ship in an ocean instead of in space? BILC!
He also had a line about salt-water hurting the hull. It can withstand the extremes of space, but don’t get it wet!
The Nibirans are shocked when they see the Enterprise rising out of the ocean...
Did all the natives run after the pair; woman and children included? It certainly seemed that way.
I may be ‘reading’ too much into the scene, but I still wonder about the natives. They were worshiping a scroll, and then switched to worshiping Enterprise (technology). Our culture has people who have Sacred writings, and people who devote themselves to science tech.
The summary names Mickey, the father of the girl, as Thomas Harewood. The girl is called Lucille and the mother is Rima. But at first it just refers to Harrison as an unknown individual because he wasn’t yet named. I don’t recall hearing Harewood’s name either.
Didn’t realize that the females that Kirk was with were Caitians. They didn’t seem fuzzy enough. Makes sense because Kirk does like •••••-cats.
Pike dismisses Spock, and proceeds to dress Kirk down...
Why were they ordered to survey the planet in the first place if it was about to be destroyed? Did Starfleet need them to record data of natives dying, and a planet being destroyed by a volcano?
Later, Harewood drops the ring into the water, which quickly fizzes, then causes a massive explosion at the Kelvin Archive.
What kind of Alka-Seltzer ring, when dropped in water, could blow up a building?
Carol has a British accent, but the original Carol didn’t. Also Adm. Marcus, her father, was not British. I didn’t think that original Carol was ever a member of Starfleet. Of course, for all we know, this new Carol isn’t a member until the end.
Kirk promotes Pavel Chekov to chief engineer...
Chekov should be too young!
The summary spells the Klingon world as Qo’noS, but the movie had it as Kronos.
The one Klingon we see without a helmet looks different than past and future Klingons. His eyes seemed to be more alien.
The coordinates take Scotty to Jupiter, where he finds a large shipyard. Following a sortie of similar shuttlecraft, what they see inside is absolutely stunning.
No security needed! Scotty’s craft, fortunately, was similar!
The timing sure was close: Kirk tells Starfleet about the capture of Harrison, Harrison tells the coordinates to Kirk, Kirk calls out to Scotty to tell him, Scotty finds the ship, and then the ship leaves to go after Kirk.
Carol tells Kirk that Chapel later became a nurse, but we heard Bones calling for Nurse Chapel in Trek ’09. I think it was just a reference to Majel being in a better place.
Harrison is, in fact, Khan, but he is yet another Brit. Maybe he ‘adapted’ during his stay in London.
His cryoship was found by Admiral Marcus after the destruction of Vulcan, and he alone was awoken.
So within a year Khan learned 23rd Century tech and a working giant starship was built.
He put his crew in the torpedoes for their protection, but had no idea they would be found. He escaped alone. Khan says he committed his terrorist acts on the assumption that his crew had been killed.
In the original “Space Seed”, each crew member was in an individual compartment built into the “Botany Bay”; not in a cryotube.
Why did Khan not just free his crew if he had the chance? How did he get all 72 built into their own torpedo before being discovered? Did he give his super blood to others in exchange for help? Once he realized the crew wasn’t killed, and he was confronted about the attacks, he should have said “sorry about that; it was my misunderstanding”.
Vengeance catches up, and proceeds to fire upon the Enterprise, inflicting heavy damage and causing it to drop out of warp speed between Earth and its Moon.
Can weapons fired during warp go faster-than-light? If Enterprise hadn’t dropped out, just how close to Earth did they want to get?
Carol tries to contact Admiral Marcus, not believing her father would destroy the Enterprise if he knew she were on-board – he simply beams her aboard the Vengeance.
I don’t recall dialogue regarding a problem with Enterprise shields.
Kirk and Scotty make their way to engineering, a difficult trip with the ship tumbling.
Why did the ship tumble instead of just dropping like a stone? BILC!
Spock complies, and assists Khan in locating the torpedoes.
As I recall, Spock had to lower shields which were working again.
Sensors locate Khan, but, there is too much interference to beam him up to the Enterprise. Spock, instead, elects to beam down to Earth and take Khan out.
Transporter is also working again, but only one way.
Note to Callie/Csullivan: If you scroll down on the webpage, you’ll see the ‘deleted scene’ of Khan in a shower.
Why were they ordered to survey the planet in the first place if it was about to be destroyed?
When the orders to survey the planet were given, Starfleet may not have known that the volcano had become active. That could very well have been something Kirk found out about when he got there, which lead him to improvise his rescue of the Nibiru people on the spot.
What kind of Alka-Seltzer ring, when dropped in water, could blow up a building?
I imagine the ring could have contained a small piece of antimatter, with a containment system dependant on the ring's structure itself. Making the ring from a water soluble substance provided a simple way to trigger the explosion.
Can weapons fired during warp go faster-than-light?
Ships at warp don't actually move THROUGH space. It is space ITSELF that is bent, folded and moved at superluminal speed. The ships are carried along by that folding space like a surfboard on a wave. So bring two ships at warp close enough to each other, and the merging warp fields will create a bridge between them that will allow the use of phasers.
I vaguely recall the exchange between
Pike and Kirk. Pike seemed to have a previous report regarding the volcano, but Kirk was claiming (lying) that it was wrong; not yet knowing that Spock was honest in his report.
Khan put his crew in torpedoes to try to keep them safe.
Arthur Dent: "Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the word 'safe' that I wasn't previously aware of."
Carol has a British accent, but the original Chris - "Carol didn’t. Also Adm. Marcus, her father, was not British. I didn’t think that original Carol was ever a member of Starfleet."
The accent threw me off, too, but I suppose we just have to realize that in the 23rd century, when Earth men fool around with alien women, it makes complete sense that men and women from different countries marry and have kids. My wife is even from a completely different city than where I'm from.
I suppose we have to believe that Marcus married a British woman, who raised Carol in Britain, while Marcus was out in space, so she adopted a British accent and not an American one.
And as for Carol Marcus in Starfleet, this is JJ Abrahms's version of Trek and, like Starfleet engineers, he loves to change things!
Chris - "Kirk promotes Pavel Chekov to chief engineer... Chekov should be too young!"
Totally agree with this. Not only that, Engineering should be packed with experienced, OLDER officers that should have been promoted FIRST. My theory is BIGCSTD -- Because It Gives Chekov Something To Do in the movie!
McCoy says that he once performed a cesarean section on a pregnant Gorn. First, at the corresponding time in the original timeline, the Federation did not know about the existence of the Gorn. Second, Gorns are reptiles, they should lay eggs, not get pregnant, although there are a few reptiles on Earth who do give birth to live youngs, so this may not be a nit after all.
The damaged Enterprise is shown in space with flames and billowing streamers of smoke coming out of the many holes the Vengeance blasted in her hull. Fire and smoke do not behave like that in a vacuum. They promptly disperse in rapidly expanding nearly spherical clouds of ever rarefying gas.
Maybe in this universe, the Federation met the Gorn sooner than they did in Prime Time. As I said above, I think this universe was already there before Nero showed up (see the post I made for further details).
In addition to Khan, I made up a list of other frozen characters who were later thawed:
The Thing from The Thing from Another World (1951) or The Thing (1982) or The Thing (2011)
Taylor, Landon, and Dodge from Planet of the Apes (1968), followed by Brent from Beneath the Planet of the Apes (1970) [However, I don't remember if the crew were actually frozen or preserved by other means.]
Buck Rogers from Buck Rogers in the 25th Century (1979)
Charlie from Iceman (1984)
L. Q. “Sonny” Clemmons, Ralph Offenhouse, and Claire Raymond from Star Trek: The Next Generation “The Neutral Zone” (1988)
A Kohl physician and a Kohl programmer from Star Trek: Voyager “The Thaw” (1996)
Austin Powers and Dr. Evil from Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery (1997)
Megatron from Transformers (2007)
Captain America aka Steve Rogers from Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)
Skaldak from Doctor Who “Cold War” (2013)
Don't forget Larry from the South Park episode "Prehistoric Ice Man"!
Possibly that was JJ Abrams' dig at Fox. Who cancelled his 2012 series Alcatraz after just 13 episodes.
Yeah, that might be it.
Khan and his followers were not frozen in the original Trek episode, they were in a form of deep hibernation. The astronauts of Planet of the Apes were not frozen either, their beards slowly grew during their long sleep.
A few more frozen characters.
The T1000 in Terminator 2 (1991)
The Borg drones in Second season Enterprise episode Regeneration (2003)
Paul Fournier, a man accidently frozen in the arctic in 1905 and brought back to life in 1969 in the french-italian movie comedy Hibernatus (1969)
Other frozen characters:
Miles Monroe from Sleeper (1973)
If we include animation:
Philip J. Fry from Futurama (1999)
Those above from memory.
Wikipedia has an article and mentions others I didn't think about:
The Empire Strikes Back (1980) [I surprise myself that I didn't think of this, but in my defense Han was encased in carbonite not ice.]
Forever Young (1992)
Demolition Man (1993) [Another surprise to myself]
Xena: The Warrior Princess at the end of the 4th Season (1999)
Vanilla Sky (2001)
The Last Airbender (2010) [Yet another surprise]
The technique was used during space travel in
Aliens (1986)
Avatar (2009)
Pandorum (2009)
Weren't the crew of the Discovery in 2001: A Space Odyssey frozen? They were in a form of suspended animation at any rate. And what about the crew of the Nostromo in Alien?
The Phantom Zone criminals in Man of Steel.
(I don't think that's really much of a spoiler, since their imprisonment in the Phantom Zone is a recurring element throughout their various media incarnations.)
Also just remembered Encino Man (1992).
I considered Scotty in TNG "Relics", but he wasn't frozen.
I started thinking about this topic after watching The Avengers with my 10 year old daughter. She loved the movie but I can't get her to watch any Trek. She was fascinated by the fact that Capt America was actually older then all the others. I tried to compare Capt America to Khan: Both stonger than normal; both thawed and older than others.
I did get her to watch X-Men by comparing Iron Man to Wolverine and the fact that both movies had a team of heroes. But no success with Trek yet.
Wasn't Amelia Earhart frozen and woken up in an episode of Voyager?
The Robinsons were frozen aboard the Jupiter 2, before Dr.Smith stowed aboard and made a mess of their mission.
In The original Dr.Who series, scientists unthaw an Ice Warrior, in the first episode to feature those monsters.
The Cybermen are freed from their frozen tombs by curious human scientists.
Also in Doctor Who, the creator of the Daleks, Davros, is frozen for decades, but revived later.
And in yet another episode, geniuses from Earth, including Einstein, are placed in suspended animation by the Rani to use their intellect along with dark matter in her devious scheme.
And I'm pretty sure the crew of the Seaview defrosted some monster that were frozen.
Weren't the crew of the Discovery in 2001: A Space Odyssey frozen?
No, they clearly were not because their life signs were being monitored by Hal. They were in some sort of hibernation state.
And what about the crew of the Nostromo in Alien?
I think they were. They definitely had the technology to do so because Parker asks several times why Ash simply doesn't freeze Kane to put a stop to whatever the face hugger alien is doing to him until they return to Earth.
In Lost in Space, Major West puts Smith in one of the cryotubes so he won't be anymore trouble, but the robot gets him out shortly after. Later in the series, they visit a space prison where the inmates serve their sentences as frozen statues.
Why wouldn't you monitor anyone's life signs in cryogenics? I mean, they might be "frozen", but that doesn't mean their vitals shouldn't be continuously monitored. If only to make sure something hasn't happened to the machinery keeping them in a state of suspended animation.
If you are frozen, you have no life signs. Everything is stopped, preserved intact but motionless. You don't breathe, your heart doesn't beat, your brain has no activity, you're just like a piece of frozen meat. The crew of Discovery was not frozen because they were breathing and their hearts were beating, albeit much slower than normal.
I do recall that 'they' were able to tell that Han survived being 'frozen' in carbonite.
Also add to the list Captain Caveman!
Khan in this movie got to do what Khan Prime never did, set foot back on his home world, Earth.
Jon0815: And why does Khan have an English accent now?
Why's that a problem? Khan was Indian (possibly Sikh) and there are plenty of people of Indian heritage with English accents.
Steve: Kyle, you're either amazingly insightful or you saw a copy of the script!
Just lucky, I guess, given that in a post back in December I stated that it couldn't be Khan and yet it was. The Section 31 thing I thought would work well in a post-Vulcan (the \[Star Trek} equivalent of post-9/11) Federation. The space jump an crashing ship was just a logical analysis of the data in the various trailers. And now I get to go put on my pointed ears and blue shirt…
Here's my one nit: warp travel. The Enterprise can cross the Federation from Earth to the Neutral Zone and maybe even make it as far as Qo'noS* faster than I can make the 2.5 mile commute to my office. No. Not a chance in Sto'Vo'kor. I understand they need to keep the urgency level ramped up, but it makes no logical sense for the capitol planets of two feuding/rivaling/potential war adversaries to be closer to each other than you are to the nearest grocery store.
Kyle, Khan's accent is a nit because in Space Seed, he had a very different accent.
Potential anti-nit: He's been awake for over a year, and is quite capable of learning a new accent quickly.
One character - Many actors:
With these two reboots/prequels, the classic characters now have at least two actors.
Just wondering which characters have more than two and which has the most....
(Of the top of my head)
Spock has Nimoy and Quinto, the kid from Trek '09, but also the others from Trek III - that kid as well as young adult.
Kirk has Shatner, Pine, kid and baby (if real) from Trek '09. Also Sandra Smith who played Dr. Janice Lester when they swapped bodies in Turnabout Intruder.
TNG has a few even without a reboot:
In addition to Stewart as Picard, there was the kid from Rascals, and a young Picard with hair was shown in a flashback but I don't recall if that was Tapestry or another show. Tom Hardy who played Shinzon posed in a picure playing younger, but bald, Picard if that counts.
Yes, that was Tapestry.
DVD and Blu-Ray beam in Sept. 10. More here.
Honest Trailers now has STID.
Also, you can buy movie in advance from Apple ITune. But it'll just be on your computer, not an actual DVD or Blu-Ray.
Chris Terik: Just wondering which characters have more than two and which has the most....
Well, this is what I compiled in my Nitpick document back when there was a lot more traffic on Nitcentral during the heydey of televised Trek:
Alexandra
Jessica & Vanessa Bova When the Bough Breaks(TNG)
Bok
Frank Corsentino The Battle(TNG)
Lee Arenberg Bloodlines(TNG)
Borg Queen
Alice Krige Star Trek: First Contact, Endgame(VOY)
Susanna Thompson Dark Frontier(VOY)
Captain Braxton
Allan G. Royal Future’s End parts I-II(VOY)
Bruce McGill Relativity(VOY)
Pavel Chekov
Walter Koenig TOS – Star Trek Generations
Anton Yelchin Star Trek(2009) – Star Trek Into Darkness
Zephram Cochrane
Glenn Corbett Metamorphosis(TOS)
James Cromwell Star Trek: First Contact
Senator Cretak
Megan Cole Image in the Sand, Shadows and Symbols(DS9)
Adrienne Barbeau Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges(DS9)
Colonel Green
Phillip Pine The Savage Curtain(TOS)
Steven Rankin Demons(ENT)
Ishka
Andrea Martin Family Business(DS9)
Cecily Adams Ferengi Love Songs(DS9), The Magnificent Ferengi(DS9), et al.
Kahless
Robert Herron The Savage Curtain(TOS)
Kevin Conway Rightful Heir(TNG)
James T. Kirk
William Shatner Where No Man Has Gone Before(TOS) – Star Trek:Generations
Chris Pine Star Trek(2009) – Star Trek Into Darkness
Kol
uncredited actor The Price(TNG)
Leslie Jordan False Profits(VOY)
Carol Marcus
Bibi Besch Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Alice Eve Star Trek Into Darkness
Leonard “Bones” McCoy
DeForest Kelly TOS – Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Karl Urban Star Trek(2009) – Star Trek Into Darkness
Mot
Shelly Desai Data’s Day(TNG)
Ken Thorley Ensign Ro, Schisms(TNG)
Neral
(as Proconsul) Norman Large Unification parts I-II(TNG)
(as Praetor) Hal Landon Jr. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges(DS9)
Sir Isaac Newton
John Neville Descent part I(TNG)
Peter Dennis Death Wish(VOY)
Molly O’Brien
unnamed infant actor Disaster(TNG)
Hana Hatae Rascals(TNG) - What You Leave Behind(DS9)
Michelle Kruisec Time’s Orphan(DS9)
Admiral Owen Paris
Warren Munson Persistence of Vision(VOY)
Richard Herd Pathfinder(VOY)
Jean-Luc Picard
Patrick Stewart Encounter at Farpoint(TNG) – Star Trek Nemesis
David Tristin Birkin Rascals(TNG)
Tom Hardy Star Trek Nemesis (photo of young Picard)
Rene Picard
David Tristin Birkin Family(TNG)
Christopher James Miller Star Trek Generations
Christopher Pike
Jeffrey Hunter The Cage(TOS)
Bruce Greenwood Star Trek(2009) – Star Trek Into Darkness
Alexander Rozhenko
John Steuer Reunion(TNG)
Brian Bonsall New Ground - Firstborn(TNG)
James Sloyan Firstborn(TNG)
uncredited actor in photograph in The Way of the Warrior(DS9)
Marc Woden Sons and Daughters(DS9)
Montgomery “Scotty” Scott
James Doohan TOS – Star Trek Generations
Simon Pegg Star Trek(2009) – Star Trek Into Darkness
Kahn Noonien Singh
Ricardo Montalban Space Seed(TOS) – Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Benedict Cumberbatch Star Trek Into Darkness
Jake Sisko
Cirroc Lofton DS9
Thomas Hobson Emissary(DS9) (Saratoga flashback scenes)}
Todd The Visitor(DS9)
Spock
Leonard Nimoy TOS – Star Trek Into Darkness
Young actor in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
Zachary Quinto Star Trek(2009) – Star Trek Into Darkness
Spot
Obviously, multiple animals are always used in animal roles, but what makes it so egregious in Spot’s case is that Spot was a male Somali cat in Data’s Day(TNG), but was an orange tabby in later appearances, and became a female in Genesis(TNG), when “she” gave birth to kittens.
Hikaru Sulu
George Takei TOS – Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country – Flashback(VOY)
John Cho Star Trek(2009) – Star Trek Into Darkness
Surak
Barry Atwater The Savage Curtain(TOS)
Bruce Gray Awakening (ENT)
Tora Ziyal
Cyia Batten Indiscretion(DS9), Return to Grace(DS9)
Tracy Middendorf For the Cause(DS9)
Melanie Smith In Purgatory’s Shadow - Sacrifice of Angels(DS9)
Toral
J.D. Cullum Redemption parts I-II(TNG)
Rick Pasqualone The Sword of Kahless(DS9)
T’Pau
Celia Lovsky Amok Time(TOS)
Betty Matsushita Darkling(VOY)
Kara Zediker Awakening(ENT), Kir’Shara(ENT)
Nyota Uhura
Nichelle Nichols TOS – Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Zoe Saldana Star Trek(2009) – Star Trek Into Darkness
Naomi Wildman
unnamed infant actor Deadlock(VOY)
Brooke Stephens Mortal Coil(VOY)
Scarlet Pomers Once Upon a Time(VOY) – Homestead(VOY)
Vanessa Branch Shattered(VOY)
LN: Thanks for the list!
But there are a few names missing.
Kirk was also played by the same women who was Janice Lester in Turnabout Intruder as well as the baby & kid in ST '09.
I'm sure Picard had another younger actor during a flashback. I think the episode was Tapestry.
There were other crew members in Rascals who turned young in addition to Picard.
Spock had multiple actors in Trek III, in addition to the young adult actor there was a younger kid. Also there was as a baby in Trek V and a kid in ST '09.
Any babies on the list may have been fake, I don't know.
Dues Tuvix count as playing both Tuvok & Neelix?
Forgot Spock's parents! Sarek & Amanda!
For Sarek: Mark Lenard, Ben Cross, and Jonathan Simpson (Trek V).
For Amanda: Jane Wyatt, Winona Ryder, and Cynthia Bliase (Trek V).
Johnny in Trek '09 was also referred to as Kirk's brother on the DVD extra. But Kirk's brother was named George (after father). If Johnny was supposed to be George, but mean uncle or step-dad renamed him, then we also saw him in Operation Annihilate! when Shatner played dead.
Sean Kenney also played the crippled Pike in The Menagerie.
Young Picard was played by Marcus Nash in Tapestry.
I believe the babies in question were seen on screen.
For the purposes of my list, I'm not counting Sandra Smith, who played Janice Lester in Turnabout Intruder, nor Tom Wright in Tuvix(VOY), since that was a completely new character. But others' mileage, of course, may vary.
Thanks for pointing out the info on Rascals, STV V and Trek 09.
I just noticed that I credited the adult actor who played the older Jake Sisko in The Visitor as "Todd". That should be Tony Todd.
Bought the movie on Blu-Ray last night.
In case you didn’t already know, the movie comes with different extra features depending on where you buy it. It is my understanding that a commentary is available if you purchase the flick thru I-Tunes. The Best Buy ad says it offers 30 minutes of additional content via CinemaNow (I don’t know what that is). I think Walmart might offer a model of the Vengeance ship.
I got mine at Target for only $20, which I think is a deal for a new release. Three disks are in the case: I haven’t watched the actual movie on Blu-Ray yet, but I don’t think there are any extra scenes that were not in the theatrical release. The only other things that the main disk offers is the ability to read the closed-caption as well as a short feature called The Mission Continues about veterans who serve their community after returning from overseas. The extra features are on another disc and, despite the controversy, I was pleased with it. It offered three commercials regarding STID that were called Announcement, Teaser, and Trailer 2. There are also thirteen featurettes. I think that if you buy it at Best Buy then you get different extras, and if you buy it elsewhere then you don’t get as many. The titles of the featurettes follow:
1. The Voyage Begins…Again
2. Creating the Red Planet
3. Rebuilding the Enterprise
4. Attack on Starfleet
5. The Klingon Home World
6. The Enemy of My Enemy
7. Vengeance is Coming
8. Ship to Ship
9. Mr. Spock and Mr. Spock
10. Kirk and Spock
11. Brawl by the Bay
12. Continuing the Mission (about veterans serving their community)
13. Visual Affection
I did think it odd that the description of the movie on the case reveals that Khan is the villain. But I also had a problem with the original synopsis that said “they find an unstoppable force” who has “detonated the fleet”.
My main concern is that I store all my movies alphabetically. Therefore, I have to squeeze STID in-between Trek III and Trek IV.
The people who produce the DVD packaging probably operate under the assumption that most of the people buying the DVD are those who already saw the video, and know that Khan is the villain. I've long-assumed that that also explains the different artwork on DVD covers. Whereas movie posters are often more minimalist, in order to invoke a sense of mystery on the part of the viewer, who doesn't know what happens in the film, or who's who. This is why, I think, poster image of the lone figure of Anderson in the insignia-shaped hole in that building evokes a sense of eerieness in the viewer, or that shot of the Vengeance pursuing the comparably tiny Enterprise on the other poster, evokes a sense of "Geez, how will the Enterprise come out of that one?", the DVD covers tend to put more of the cast together on the cover, to remind the buyer of who is in the film, since invoking an air of mystery is moot, since everyone knows what happened, and even those who don't can Google plot points.
Chris: My main concern is that I store all my movies alphabetically. Therefore, I have to squeeze STID in-between Trek III and Trek IV.
Luigi Novi: You wouldn't happen to be a theoretical physicist who lives in Pasadena, works at Cal-Tech, and rooms with a diminutive experimental physicist with a thing for the hot blonde across the hall, would you?
Anderson?!
I find it annoying when they give away half the plot on the DVD cover. Not everyone has already seen the film and even if it's only a tiny minority, it's unkind to give away one of the main plot points. Not to mention - like all the early hype about Carol Marcus and then being puzzled when she initially called herself something else - it's confusing when the cover says that the character is Khan but he's initially referred to only as Harrison.
Sorry, Harrison. I messed up.
I just watched the dvd and have an odd question.
During the speach at the end there's a shot of 5 men--with Sulu on the left, and Spock on the right.
Is the man just to Spocks left who it looks like???
(I'd swear that's Walter Koenig(original Chekov).)
I've wondered about that since I first saw the film-but never heard anything about it.
Am I way off base--or am I the first to catch something new(please let me know)?????
If you mean during Kirk's speech, the people standing are, from left to right: Sulu, Chekov (young, Chekov, that is), Bones, Scotty, Keenser (Scotty's diminutive assistant), Spock, Uhura and Carol Marcus.
The person to Spock's left is Uhura, and not Walter Koenig, who I did not notice in that scene.
Neither Mr. Koenig's Wikipedia article or IMDB mention an appearance in this movie.
Yes, I meant during Kirks speech--I'm never sure about spoilers, and tried to err on the side of caution.
You might be right--it would make more sense than my version.(Note: I was looking at the early part of the scene--before it panned over to include Uhura and Marcus, and Keenser seems to be behind the person I'm talking about so I didn't even notice him.
On the other hand--isn't the one you've i.d.ed new Chekov a little short(I thought he was one of the taller members of the new crew),and I never even thought about Scotty there(and feel he looks too old to be the Scotty in this film(and looks more like more recent pictures I've seen of Koenig than new Scotty. Also, I admit I did not i.d. new Bones)).
So--you're probably right--I just hoped I had caught something new. Oh,well.
Some things I'm noticing on a repeat viewing:
When Kirk asks Admiral Marcus to reinstate his command and permission to go after Harrison/Khan, there is a display of various ships/vehicles in Marcus' office. I mentioned back in May that they include that funny-looking ringed ship named Enterprise, which first appeared in the rec room display in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. What I didn't mention is that the ships appear to be arranged in historically chronological order, and that the ring ship is placed before Zephram Cochrane's Phoenix, which means it's a pre-warp ship. Interesting.
Why does Admiral Marcus just outright reveal the existence of Section 31 to Kirk and Spock, and that the data archive was an installation of it? Granting Kirk's request and sending him to kill Kirk didn't require it. He just could've told him that it was part of Starfleet Intelligence (which, IIRC, Section 31 is merely a part). Or hell, he could've just told him, "No, you're wrong, Kirk, it was just a data archive; Harrison bombed it in order to provoke a meeting of top Starfleet brass, just like you speculate it did, and I'm granting you permission to go after him. Take these special photon torpedoes and kill him." Telling him about Section 31 was not only unnecessary to the internal narrative, but it compromised the secret nature of that organization. Keep in mind that it cannot be explained that Marcus did this because he intended to kill Kirk: For one thing, he only decided to kill Kirk when Kirk decided to take Harrison/Khan prisoner instead of execute, so he obviously hadn't planned to kill Kirk. More importantly, but telling Kirk and Spock about Section 31, he gave them plenty of opportunity to document what Marcus told them in their personal logs, and by telling others about it (as Marcus did not inform them, at least on screen, that Section 31 was classified, nor ordered them to keep it that way).
One big nit in the film, as was mentioned by various nitpickers, is how Scotty was able to just waltz into the Jupiter station. It just occurred to me that what the creators could've done was to have Harrison/Khan include some special entrance code that would've allowed access to Scotty without alerting suspicion.
One of things I did when compiling my nits and other info during the final several episodes of Voyager and the run of Star Trek: Enterprise, was to include notes on any facts that could be incorporated into updates of The Star Trek: Encyclopedia
Note: Bones says, after they've discovered the superhuman in the torpedo and returned it to the Enterprise, that they have had to freeze people cryogenically since the invention of warp drive.
After being informed that the person in the torpedo is 300 years old, Kirk again questions Harrison, who reveals that he is Khan, and says that after he tried to smuggle his 72 followers in the torpedoes, he was discovered, and after escaping, assumed that Marcus had his 72 followers killed. But if that's true, then how did Harrison know that the torpedoes that acting Captain Sulu informed him the Enterprise was targeting at him on Kronos contained his followers? He never said that there were 72 of them (which is why Harrison/Khan asked Kirk on the surface of Kronos how many he had); all Sulu said were that they were "advanced, long-range torpedoes".
When the Vengeance knocks the Enterprise out of warp, the two ships come out of warp 237,000 km from Earth. Shouldn't there have been other starships, stations, telescopes, sensor, etc., to notice this, and who would've come on over to investigate the sudden appearance of the flagship and this unknown gonzo-looking warship near Earth, and wanting to wonder why one was firing on another? Maybe offer assistance to them? To prevent this, the writers could've simply had Admiral Marcus respond to any incoming communications or approaching ships that he was on board the Vengeance, had the situation well in hand, and order them to turn back and maybe even turn off their sensors as part of some classified drill, or something.
As Kirk and Khan prepare to make a space jump over to the Vengeance, Spock asks Uhura if they can contact New Vulcan from their current position. Uhura says she'll do her best, and when Elder Spock is later on the viewscreen, his image is in a state of constant pixelation. Why is this? How far is Jupiter from New Vulcan? Keep in mind that it can't be because the Vengeance is jamming signals, since that ship's systems are offline at this point, according to Sulu.
Also, right before Kirk and Khan make the jump, Bones is on the bridge asking Spock if he thinks the two crewmen's attempt to do so will work. Why is Bones on the bridge in the middle of a red alert crisis?
When Spock goes after Khan on foot in San Francisco, the stakes of his chase are heightened when Bones tells Spock they need Khan's blood to save Kirk. Um, why not just use the blood of one Khan's frozen buddies? Bones already had one of them taken out of the cryotube and placed in an induced coma in order to stick Kirk in the cryotube in the superhuman's place. So why not try drawing some of that superhuman's blood?
John E. Porteous: I never even thought about Scotty there (and feel he looks too old to be the Scotty in this film...
Luigi Novi: Well, Simon Pegg was currently 42 years old when making the film, making him five years older than Scotty was supposed to be in this film, assuming that the Abramsverse Scotty was born in 2222,* just like Prime Scotty was. Maybe the cold climate on Delta Vega made him age a bit faster?
*Date from Geoffrey Mandel's 1980 book Star Trek Blueprints: U.S.S. Enterprise Officer's Manual, and Relics(TNG), which was set in 2369, and in which Scotty was said to be 147 years old.
Everything Wrong now has done STID available for viewing on YouTube.
I wondered about the timing, when Scotty said the Vengeance would be operational in 3 minutes. I just didn't bother to time it myself to check if it was a nit.
"After being informed... how did Harrison know that the torpedoes that acting Captain Sulu informed him the Enterprise was targeting at him on Kronos contained his followers? He never said that there were 72 of them (which is why Harrison/Khan asked Kirk on the surface of Kronos how many he had); all Sulu said were that they were "advanced, long-range torpedoes".
I think it would be better understood if you ordered the events this way:
1. Sulu said were that they were "advanced, long-range torpedoes".
2. Harrison/Khan asked Kirk on the surface of Kronos how many he had. Spock honestly answered 72.
3. In the brig, Kirk asked for one reason why he should visit the coordinates. HK said he has 72 reasons that are on the ship; "they have been all along". At this point, Kirk should be thinking: "If you're referring to our torpedoes, it was Spock who told you that we have 72. And of course they've been on the ship because we can't keep them outside on a tow-line."
4. After being informed that the person in the torpedo is 300 years old, Kirk again questions Harrison, who reveals that he is Khan, and says that after he tried to smuggle his 72 followers in the torpedoes, he was discovered, and after escaping, assumed that Marcus had his 72 followers killed.
After Sulu told him about the torpedoes, he probably hoped that his crew/family might still be safe. Spock confirmed with the 72 number.
A different observation: For being an sci-fi action movie, I realized that the Enterprise never fired a shot.
Wasn't it established somewhere that Vulcans, being adapted for a desert world, don't cry?
@Luigi, I thought the same thing (needing Khan's blood -- why not use one of his buddies?).
On rewatching, the only thing I can think of is that Bones *knew* that Khan's blood could regenerate the dead. He didn't know that about unfrozen cryotube guy.
However, that said, He had Kirk in a cryopod anyways. Why not sacrifice another tribble and find out?
I don't recall it being established anywhere that Vulcans don't cry. The only thing I recall about their ocular anatomy is that they have an inner eyelid, established in Operation-Annihilate!(TOS).
The only race I recall it being established not to have tear ducts are Klingons, which Spock mentioned in Star Trek: VI: The Undiscovered Country.
In any event, Spock is half human, so he may have some aspects of human anatomy.
The truth is that it was established that Vulcans can cry.
IIRC Spock was forced to cry in Plato's Stepchildren, and cried openly for V'ger in STTMP.
Also Saavik cried during Socks funeral in STWOK(and I'm not sure about Valaris in STVI, or Sarek in Sarek and Unification).
So Vulcans can cry--but choose not to.
Cool. I stand corrected.
I cried during Socks funeral,too!
He was a nice little cat!
When you have to say goodbye to socks- especially ones you have grown so fond of- it really CAN be quite emotional...
Funny how one missed letter changes the meaning of a sentence
I sentence you to wearing socks!
Saavik was indicated in the original script to be half-Romulan of ST II. This was cut out of the finished film, and not referenced in that film or its immediate sequel, though it has been referenced in the comics, in particular a comic, set before the events of ST VI, in which Saavik interacted with Valeris. Valeris made a Oh-No-You-Didn't! comment about how Saavik's half-Romulan nature made her less qualified to render an objective assessment of some situation that occurfed in that comic's story. Interestingly, Valeris, (who did not cry in ST VI, btw), was originally intended to be Saavik, before it was decided to create an original character instead (which I'm guessing was done to avoid paying royalties to the writers of ST II for using Saavik again). Having the two of them duke it out verbally (as much as Vulcans can) was interesting to read, much as it was when Ro Laren and Major Kira did so in the Deep Space Nine novel Wrath of the Prophets, given that in similar fashion, Sisko's first officer was originally to be filled Ro. Peter David, one of the three writers of that comic, had some fun with that exchange, in which the two Bajojrans, who are forced to work together to oppose a mutual threat, are sparring verbally over Kira's hostility to Ro's over Ro's past with the Maquis, and Ro argues the two of them are not so disimilar in their backgrounds, commenting that Kira "could have been her". Granted, who wrote which chapter was not explicitly given, but that scene had Peter David's fingerprints all over it.
Vonda McIntyre's novelizations of Wrath of Khan and The Search For Spock also made explicit Saavik's half-Romulan nature. According to director Nicholas Myers, the reason Saavik was not used in The Undiscovered Country was because of how much money Kirstie Alley wanted to reprise the role. (Apparently no one thought to ask Robin Curtis.) Leonard Nimoy, on the other hand, has stated there were second thoughts about making an established, popular character the villlain in TUC.
(Given that Saavik was co-created by Nicholas Myers [as he co-wrote STAR TREK II: The Wrath of Khan] and that Paramount most likely owns the character anyway, paying royalties to the authors of Wrath of Khan is a very unlikely explanation.)
I have Nimoy's autobio, and I concur with Benn about the "second thoughts" bit.
This thread is really long....shouldn't a part two be created?
(Not that I would ever have any reason whatsoever to contribute to it. Oh, I certainly could, but I don't think any of you *really* wanna read what I would have to say....)
About Socks, they are a good way to keep your feet warmer in cold weather.
Truth is--I thought I had fixed that. I really need to improve both my typing and proofreading skills. Sorry about that.
(Although it did give some of the sites wits some fun Socks-ing it to me).
As for comic books and novels(novelizations)--I don't tend to count them(with the possible exception of the first "Countdown" group).
(I've seen such things as Trelayne being Q's godson, and Saavik flipping out when going into Pon Farr and creating a major incident with the Romulins just before STIII(Note:at this time the only Pon Farr we had seen(Amok Time) showed the female(T'pring) thinking clearly throughout the entire incident)).
My main point though was that Vulcans can cry--and I didn't want Spock to be my only example(only half Vulcan).
As for Saavik--ther is nothing canon that states that she is half-Romulan, so I treated her as fully Vulcan(Note:as Vulcans and Romulans are closely related,and had the tech to launch long range space-flights before the split, I would guess that that wouldn't affect Saavik at all).
As for Valeris--I'd have to check, but I thought there were tears in her eyes in a bridge scene after the mind-meld(it's been awhile-this isn't my favorite of the movies).
As for Kirstie Alley--the rumor you mention was given for why she wasn't in STIII. As Robin Curtis took the role in both STIII and STIV, I doubt Alley was a factor in STVI.
The story I've read says that yes the Valeris role--started out to be Saavik, but they felt that her actions didn't fit and greated a new charictor instead.
As for DS9, rumor has it that Ro was considered for the second in command role, but that Michelle Forbes didn't want to get tied down in a series(I think the plan was for 6 years), passed on it--and so Major Kira was born.
The one thing about Vonda N. McIntyre's adaptation of Wrath of Khan is for years it was the only source of information that Peter Preston was Scotty's nephew. It wasn't until the Director's Cut (or the television cut) of the film this was made "official". McIntyre did base her book off one of the scripts. (Exactly what draft only she knows, I guess.) That's gotta count for something.
It wasn't until the Director's Cut (or the television cut) of the film this was made "official".
It was the TV cut, which first aired on ABC-TV in February, 1985. IIRC, Scotty told Kirk that Cadet Preston was his "sister's youngest".
This is from Trektoday.com
.J. Abrams apologized to Star Trek fans for the amount of lens flares in Star Trek into Darkness.
His realization that there were too many lens flares in Star Trek into Darkness came about after he showed his wife an early version of the movie.
“I know I get a lot of grief for that,” he said. “But I’ll tell you, there are times when I’m working on a shot, I think, ‘Oh this would be really cool … with a lens flare.’ But I know it’s too much, and I apologize. I’m so aware of it now. I was showing my wife an early cut of Star Trek Into Darkness and there was this one scene where she was literally like, ‘I just can’t see what’s going on. I don’t understand what that is.’ I was like, ‘Yeah, I went too nuts on this.’”
“This is how stupid it was,” said Abrams. “I actually had to use ILM [Industrial Light & Magic] to remove lens flare in a couple of shots, which is, I know, moronic. But I think admitting you’re an addict is the first step towards recovery.”
Right. NOW he shows his wife his movie with all those distracting, annoying, unnecessary lens flares, instead of an early version of the first film, so we wouldn't get any more in THIS sequel!
Thanks, JJ!! (Note extreme sarcasm!)
I actually noticed them more in my second viewing of Into Darkness, but I really, really, really hope it's the end of them and they won't be used in the third Trek movie.
Question about Spock and Pon Farr:
Was Amok Time the first time that Spock had to endure Pon Farr? (Not counting the events of Trek III when he was reset.)
In general, it is said that Vulcan males endure it every 7th year of their adult life. But I don't think it was stated when a male is considered an adult. Spock did appear younger when he had to endure it during Trek III. If he did ensure it before Amok Time, then his confrontation with T'Pring should have happened earlier.
One reason I ask: The year of Amok Time is 2267 according to Chronology. 7 years prior would be 2260, which is the same year at the end of Star Trek Into Darkness. The crew is starting a 5 year mission into deep space with a Vulcan about to be crazed! Watch out Uhura!
Was Amok Time the first time that Spock had to endure Pon Farr?
I believe it was. Spock states that he had hoped to be spared the Pon Farr, probably because of his half human nature, implying that it was the first time he was experiencing it.
The crew is starting a 5 year mission into deep space with a Vulcan about to be crazed! Watch out Uhura!
But in this timeline, T'pring is almost certainly dead, which means that the telepathic link they shared, and which appeared to be a significant part of the Pon Farr, no longer exists.
If he did ensure it before Amok Time...
quote:
I didn't know Vulcans drank this stuff. Maybe it goes good with plomeek soup. 
How STID should have ended now on YouTube
Good article in Esquire about how Trek got so dark, compared with the tone of the TV series, in particular NextGen.
Abrams regrets keeping Khan's identity a secret. Ya think?
He should regret keeping him Caucasian.
Oh, yeah. There is that, too.
Still a good movie though.
Just thought I'd forward this short interview with Ron Moore, re. Trek in the movies vs. tv. I must say I agree with him, because there are alot of stories you can do on tv that wouldn't hold up as a movie, which has to be smash-bang-boom-wow!
'Star Trek Writer/Producer Ronald D. Moore shared his opinion regarding the future of the Star Trek franchise.
According to Moore, Trek rightly belongs on television.
“I think [Trek's] home and its heart is really in television,” Moore said, when asked about Star Trek while promoting his latest project, Helix. “That’s really what Star Trek is – the core concept is really a TV show.”
Moore has nothing against Star Trek on the big screen though; he just believes that Star Trek would be better served on television. “I think the features are good and I really admire what J.J. Abrams has done with the last two films, he said; I think it’s great; but the heart and soul of that franchise demands a return to television. The kinds of stories that you’ll tell in the features space are not the kinds of stories that made that show so popular. The features all have to be action-oriented. They all have to have enormous stakes – the Earth or the Federation or the universe has to be in jeopardy – and the features always have to surround the Captain… and maybe one other character. The TV shows were morality plays; they were more thematic; they were examining society in different ways. Sometimes the stakes were just one crew member’s life; sometimes the stakes were just one alien world or the Enterprise. The TV show is really what Star Trek is to me. I think the features are great, but I think it has to return to TV if it’s going to remain an ongoing franchise. If Trek was to return to television, Moore would like to be part of it. “I’d love to do Star Trek again, in all honesty,” he said.
Source: Digital Spy
The HISHE version of Star Trek Into Darkness.
If you have Epix, this film is now playing (and playing and playing ) on the main channels. Along with some of the other TOS based movies.
Space also plays the Trek movies a lot.