I thought this was one of the best science fiction outings in the last five or six years. Good story. Good acting. Good efects. Pefect picture.
However, I thought that the fascist(sp?) ideas represented here were somewhat shaking.

I didn't see the movie, but try reading the book.

Yes, it's kind of fascist, but Heinlein makes a (frightening) kind of sense in some ways.

Ugh. I hated this movie. Just nuts. The funny thing was, the fascist government actually worked!

It works in the novel too.

I read the novel. I felt that its best parts were when Heinlein went into deep discussion of the polotics. They do make quite a bit of sense. They are fascist ideas, and I agree with them. That's shaking to me. Am I a fascist because I agree with these polotics?
On the surface they are very good. But look at comunism. It looks very good on the surface, but simply will not work as a stable form of government. This government seems to be quite succesful, though.
What do you, the veiwers at home, think?

I didn't like this movie. It had no taste Oh well. that is my two cents.

Starship Troopers the Movie was good. Troopers
the book was great. R.A.H. was a great writer and I would like to see a movie made from some of his other works.

Shame all the actors looked like they were advertising toothpaste with those sparkling smiles.

mmm... It's been a while since I have read it, and I never liked it, but I don't remember too much of the fascist thing.

I remember that he offered only to give votes to people who serve in the army, which makes kinde' sense.

The part about the deaht penalty was really silly.
the guy thinks that if an insane person murders someone, and is later cured, he would automatically kill himself.

A couple of things always bothered me about this movie. At the time, I found it far-fetched for males and females to be playing a physical sport (i.e. football) together due to the fact that the average male is stronger than the average female. Yet, USA Today just this week ran an article about girls playing football with boys. So, maybe in the future, it won't be far-fetched. I also found it strange for men and women to be showering together. Guys, could any of you honestly shower with girls without impure thoughts going through your head (yes, this is a pun)? Do they drug soldiers so they won't have normal sexual urges during basic training? I spent a few years in the U.S. Army. Let me tell you - In AIT (Advanced Individual Training - where you learn your "job" after basic training), since the class (for the Finance Corps) was both male and female, there was a lot of sex going on. This happened despite the fact that it was discouraged and, of course, the male and female soldiers did NOT shower together.

What always got me about the film was that Mazzy Star's Fade Into Me was still popular a few hundred years in the future - classical music, perhaps?

I actually did nitpick this movie for my website, and it ended up being for pages too long, what I would deem to be too much trouble to type, so I've put it aside for now.
One point though: It was all Carmen's fault. I managed to put it down to the fact that if she wasn't born, the war wouldn't have been so bad.
And Johnny football hero is more than just a little annoying. :)

Wondering about the Co-ed showering. Basicly it seems beyond the realm of believablity to an american audance. In many countries in Europe men , women and children have no problem walking around on the beach topless or nude if they want to. It's only when you attach a stigma to nudity that it becomes something that inspires impure thoughts. This Film's Director Paul Verhoeven is from Holland, a country which is much more opened about sex and nudity (and like most that are have a sex crime and teen pregnancy rate far below the puritan US) He was naked when he filmed the scene to make everyone more comfortable. He said that everyone was nervous at first but after a while they were just standing around naked talking with each other with no arrousal or embarrasment problems, this is after just a few hours of filming. Presumably the same thing would happen to people who are brought up like that and probably have been showering co-ed at the beach/pool, in Gym classes for as long as they can remember.

I have to agree with Brian, I believe if it was normal in the context of thier society that the co-ed showers could work. Sometimes the puritan nature of our society makes me very sad.

And let's all remember Paul Verhoeven was also the director of Showgirls. He seems to have a fascination for a certain something...

Something I didn't understand about the film was why do the humans use their guns like machine guns. We see our hero surounded by the bugs. He uses his machine gun which if I am correct (haven't seen the film in a while) takes out 1 bug. Then he uses his gun like a shotgun and takes out 6. Seems to me from now on I would go with shotgun mode and not crappy machine gun mode. I didn't like this film. They missed the entire point of the book.

I don't think the shotgun mode was a shot gun but more of a minigrenade launcher ala the 209 or the grenade launcher from quake.

I'm sorry but I thought this film was just an excessively bloody and horribly acted Aliens clone.
Of course, I'm not surprised at the excessive gore, since it was made by the same person who made Robocop, Total Recall, and Basic Instinct.

I was listening to the writer/director commentary on the DVD and I figured out why the movie's main message about the fascist government seemed so strange and confusing to all of the viewers. Paul Verhoeven and Ed Newmer are both very liberally minded people. Heinlein is about as conservative as they come (a neo-Fascist). 2 major liberals were trying to interpret the ideas of an arch conservative. To them his ideas were so "out their" that they could not take them serious so they ended up with a movie where the government seems like a spoof of Heinlein's government.

Guys, could any of you honestly
shower with girls without impure thoughts going through your head

I could, not only do I think I could, but I have actually done it before.

Nit.

When the Rodger Young is hit during the attack on Planet P, you can see Carmen and Zander jump out of their seats and over their consoles.

Novel to Film Nits.

In the novel, only women were allowed to become pilots, because men didn't have the reflexes. Zander should not have been in the Navy.

In the novel, Racszak was not Rico's history teacher.

In the novel, the MI was all male. There was no fraternization between the MI and the female Naval crew.

In the novel, the MI essentially did an orbital parachute/drop to the planets, they did not go down in ships.

In the novel, Rico does not get a field promotion, he goes to OCS, and Planet P is his field training as a "Third Lieutenant".

In the novel, Zim doesn't get busted to private. He is Rico's platoon sergeant.

In the novel, Carl was not a telepath/sensitive.

There are, of course, other novel => movie nits too numerous to mention.

Non nit commentary:

Derek T. is correct. Verhoven completely missed the point. I can't really articulate Heinlein's point, but the movie sure didn't get it.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Heinlein wrote this book as a political protest. I don't know if this is true or not

Novel to Film Nits.

As I have pointed out in the past diferences between adaptations are not nits. The movie is an adaptation of the book. An adaptation is by definition diferent than it's source material. That's why the credit reads "Based on the book by Robert Heinlein". If it was a point-by-point detail-by-detail translation of the book the credit for the movie would read "Written by Robert Heinlein".

As far as I'm concerned, the entire film is a huge nit. While I can't say that I entirely agree with the message in the book (heck, I can't even *explain* it), it felt like a much more polished product than the movie.

Besides, as far as I'm concerned, the movie committed treason by not bringing something as cool as the powered armor to the big screen.

R.A.H. was a great writer and I would like to see a movie made from some of his other works.


You said it - "Stranger in a Strange Land" anyone?

I didn't appreciate the film too much when I first saw it, because I find the normal sorts of American young people portrayed on TV to be very annoying and vulgar, and I thought the characterisation was awful. But I gained a new appreciation for the film after reading this review by a one of Britain's most prominent libertarians. It is well worth a look.

Peter.

Oh, and my own view on the reason the film seemed more than a little creepy (I felt it too) was not that there was a sense of fascism in it at all.* The film was weird because it showed how clearly a people can sometimes be freer in the right sort of dictatorship than in a democracy: the "right sort" being one where the government broadly leaves the people alone. Anyway, I'll ask for the novel for Christmas. I am curious now.

Peter.

*Most who use that word have no idea what it means. They simply use it as meaning "anyone more conservative than me", which is in itself a sort of fascism which renders a range of views unspeakable in polite society, much like political correctness.

I thought that film was terrible. The heroes all american highschool models, the fascicst government, killing the bugs was ok...

One huge nit i still remember at the end: one of the girls gets stabbed by the bug queen, but at the end, everybody is walking around without shock. Moreover, the way their hairs and faces are always clean and groomed right after a major fight in dirty places was just unbelievable!

Of course, the bugs are *very* adept at not killing the heroes! They must have trained to miss the important ones!

I think Verhoeven purposely used every available cliche.

I just got the new Special Edition DVD and Verhoeven talks about how lots of that white-bread facism was deliberate satire of Heinlands neo-fasicst ideas.

Starship Troopers: If the Cast of 90210 did Saving Private Ryan or The Longest Day or Band of Brothers (or any great war picture)

Has anyone here watched the Roughnecks CGI series, and if so what are your opinions?

I've seen a few eps. I thought it was a good series that took itself more seriously than the film did.

How many times have I told you make sure you do that before we leave?
Great Line: "We have to go back to P."
-Jenkins to Rico and Carmen, after revealing to them they're "in this for the species."

I see the word "Fascist" splashed about in this discussion. I don't see anything fascistic about the planetary government in the movie. Well, did any of you watch the scene where the main characters take their induction oath for the service? It does refer to the idea that they all take the oath voluntarily. As for the idea of military service as an absolute requirement to vote, I believe that applies only to the planetary organization, the Citizens' Confederacy. This appears to be a competely voluntary government which anyone on Earth or any other world where humans live can join, and anyone who does not want to, is left alone. The movie doesn't address this much, but Rico's parents seem to be able to take the Confederacy or leave it.
I can see a great deal of merit in a system that makes power contingent on service. Since soldiers can be said to have seen the results of bad decisions (war and all that goes with it), they would seem to be the most likely people to want to prevent them. They do say that nobody hates war more than soldiers.

Watching this movie again tonight, I realized how badly the big battle on Klendathu is run.

- The first thing the troops do when they get off the transports is to all run off in a random direction in a big mass, instead of getting sorted out into their units, fortifying their position and sending out scouts to find out what the bugs have in the area.

- They have to call for the men with rocket launchers from somewhere in the pack to take down the artillery bugs they find, instead of putting them up front.

- Their officers and noncoms (such as Ace) don't give any orders to their units, don't try to plan or organize anything and just stand there shooting with the rest of the army; what's the point of having officers if they don't do anything a private couldn't do?

- The entire attack is launched with just infantry. There are no calls for air or artillery support, no ground vehicles, and no bombardment from the fleet in orbit. There's nothing but troops getting shredded by bugs.

- Speaking of the fleet, why weren't they doing anything up there but getting shot at from the ground? If they had weapons, why not use them? If not, why not pull back out of artilley range and within the flight range of the transports, just in case?

- The unit that went in first was meant to be the first wave of the attack. What happened to the second and third waves, etc.? Why didn't they come in and at least give the first unit a hole through which to withdraw?

- Before the battle, Jenkins appears in a training film, explaining that a bug soldier has a weak point that can be shot out with a few rounds, and that going for the limbs is mostly useless. Shouldn't the troops have been drilled in shooting at that one spot before they left for the battle, instead of brawling and drinking?

- The battle turned into a panicked rout very quickly. Neither the troops nor their officers made an effort to hold on to the position or even to make an orderly retreat.

- A hive of mostly unthinking, undifferentiated bugs, armed mainly with claws, outwitted and nearly wiped out an army of intelligent individuals armed with advanced weapons. How? They worked together and had a plan worked out to carry out their goals.

- Finally, whoever came up with and approved this battle plan should have been put against a wall and shot for treason. It seems impossible that a high-ranking military officer could exhibit such unfathomable incompetence except if he was trying to destroy his own side. OK, that is a little bit over the top, but whoever had the idea to fight a battle like that should never be in charge.

Chris ... I don't see anything fascistic about the planetary government in the movie....

Brian Webber posted on the PM/Republican board a list of characteristics of fascism:

"Fascism Anyone? - The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

Everyone,
Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, wrote an article about fascism which appeared in Free Inquiry magazine -- a journal of humanist thought.
Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile). He found the regimes all had 14 things in common, and he calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The article is "Fascism Anyone?," Lawrence Britt, Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20.

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

So the gov. in this movie is not only very militaristic, but therefore also fascistic.

First of all, this is all one person's opinion of what fascism is. Second, where are your examples of how the society in this movie fits this particular description of fascism? Just showing the article and saying it proves something does not make it so. Let's go through these 14 characteristics anyway.

1. What nationalism is there in this movie? We see a lot of government symbols because most of it takes place in a military context.

2. When was anyone's human rights denied, except for the basic right not to be ripped apart or incinerated by a monstrous insect, or squished by a meteorite dropped on the Earth by said insects?

3. What enemy is being scapegoated? The bugs who just dropped a meteorite on a major city and killed several million people?

4. Considering that the fleet and the MI probably have to defend not only Earth but several other whole solar systems, even in peacetime, the Confederation would have more military personnel than any country on Earth could have now, even in war. Also, when is the budget for the Confederation ever shown in the movie, that the military budget can be shown to be disproportionate?

5. What sexism? Both sexes serve in the fleet and the MI at all ranks. Male troopers and ship crewmembers are fully expected to obey female superiors at all times. Rico (an infantry private) salutes Carmen (a naval officer) when they meet again on the space station, as he would if he were approaching a male officer he never met before.

6. Again, this takes place during a war. Also, controlling the media is an interest of non-fascist governments as well.

7. Obsession is a very subjective term. What does this government do about its security in response to being attacked that can be justly called obsessive?

8. What religion? There are no clergymen or chaplains anywhere in the movie, let alone any indication of religion having anything to do with the government.

9. Not one corporation is referred to in the whole movie. Not one corporation is portrayed as having any influence on anything that happens.

10. Nothing in the movie refers to labor or unions. It's a war movie, remember?

11. Art does not appear anywhere in this movie, but a few intellectuals do. A couple scientists have a debate early on, but neither of them are in any way threatened or harmed.

12. Again, obsession is a subjective term. The only punishment we see is a flogging for having caused an accidental death in training, and considering that, that is very light.

13. Where are cronyism or corruption in evidence in the movie?

14. Not one election occurs in the movie, or is even referred to as occurring off-camera.

11. Art does not appear anywhere in this movie, but a few intellectuals do. A couple scientists have a debate early on, but neither of them are in any way threatened or harmed. -Chris Diehl

One was Kicked!

and also, having one of the debaters being played by Bill Murray's clone, being a white male, and looking like the idi0t (or is he a M0R0N?) could be in someone's view sexist. He was shown to be unitelligent while his opponent was shown to use some logic and just happened to be female. It could be taken to represent that white males are unintelligent baboons. This theme is not limited to this movie though so I'll won't go any farther.

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
So is Israel

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
So does Israel

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
So does Israel

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
So does Israel, although they need it

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
So does Saudia Arabia

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
So does Saudia Arabia and Israel

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
So does Saudia Arabia and Israel

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
So does Saudia Arabia and Israel

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
What Country does not do this

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
real labor unions are hard to come by because they have become their own business

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
••••• on religious icons, hmmm, This topic would include the U.S.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
So does Saudia Arabia and Israel

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
So does Saudia Arabia and Israel

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
So does Saudia Arabia and Israel and Florida

Anonymous, this is really not the place to publish a political rant.

Dizzy, I accept that someone kicked someone else in that scene, but that was all that happened. The government didn't drag either of them off to be killed for having their opinions. That was the point.

Most of your traits sound a lot like Bush-tpe government to me.

Let's take ALL of that elsewhere please.

Exactly. Now.

You know the thing that made me sit back and go 'whaaaa' the first time I saw this? Humanity has somehow advanced to the point where we can build big honking ships that can travel to other planets with Star Trek-like speed and they still haven't advanced beyond the level of the M-16? That and the fact that the body armor the infantry wears is so patently useless that I wonder why they bother... Ok, the physics geek in me also wants to point out that the idea of giant bugs farting asteroids (at less than the speed of light but which somehow speed up once they're out of the atmosphere so they can hit Earth in less than a zillion years) is so absurd as to be not even funny.

I assumed that the bugs "farted" plasma and knocked the asteroids out of orbit in the direction of earth. Granted, it doesn't explain how the bug "farts" can impart enough energy onto the asteroid to cause it to jump to warp...

Derek T: He uses his machine gun which if I am correct takes out 1 bug. Then he uses his gun like a shotgun and takes out 6.
G'var: I don't think the shotgun mode was a shot gun but more of a minigrenade launcher ala the 209 or the grenade launcher from quake.
I wondered that too Derek, but the shotgun only took out one bug as well, and it did a better job. I believe it is a shotgun-stlye weapon and not mini-grenade launcher because there was no explosion. Not only did the assault rifle mode seem mostly ineffective, but they also use the same guns throughout movie and the same tactics work later. That's possibly due to shooting at the nerve stem, as Carl indicates in his video clip, but very few of them actually aim the rifles, they just fire them!

Chris Diehl: Speaking of the fleet, why weren't they doing anything up there but getting shot at from the ground? [...] What happened to the second and third waves, etc.?
You make some good points Chris. Once the ships realized they were under attack they should've retaliated, or called in the positions so the rocket-people can take them out. I believe there was no second wave et al because they retreated after the first.

Torque: I assumed that the bugs "farted" plasma and knocked the asteroids out of orbit in the direction of earth. Granted, it doesn't explain how the bug "farts" can impart enough energy onto the asteroid to cause it to jump to warp...
The asteroid came through a "gravity well" (black hole?) but I agree, I don't see how they could've done that; then again I don't see how those 'artillery' bugs can create an energy burst strong enough to breach the atmosphere and destroy ships yet not hurt themselves.

I haven't read the book, but although it was extremely corny and un-necessarily gorey I thought it was entertaining. The book sounds interesting but the satire/parody of so many things in this movie was hilarious!

I don't think I saw a single hispanic/latino person in what was apparently Argentina. How does strategy and games translate to intelligence? Those escape pods are incredibly durable, able to withstand multiple impacts with mountains. How would sucking out somebody's brain give insight to human thought process? It doesn't make sense for a drill instructor to be of lower rank than his cadets after they graduate.

It doesn't make sense for a drill instructor to be of lower rank than his cadets after they graduate.

Technically that can happen. In the modern military you have two different tiers of ranking. The enlisted men/women are the "blue collar" members of the military. Officers are the "managers" who automatically outrank all enlisted personal. The highest ranking enlisted men (who are usually a 20-30 year veterans with titles like "Master Gunnery Sargent" or "Sargent Major of the Army") still are outraked by the lowest ranked officers (Ensigns & Second Lieutenants) who are mostly 24 year old kids who just graduated college.

I believe it is a shotgun-stlye weapon and not mini-grenade launcher because there was no explosion.

The guns were based on the guns that James Cameron designed for "Aliens." He took an automatic rifle and put a shot gun under it's muzzle, but depicted it as a grenade launcher. The idea being that 200 years in the future grenades would be small enough that you could fire them out of a shotgun sized barrel. This movie copied that but kept it at a shot gun. I believe that Predator also featured a military man who connected a shotgun to the barrel of his M-16 automatic rifle.

The hand weapons in this movie made no sense anyway. They're landing on a planet that they know is inhabited by hostile insects, who are incredibly hard to kill with small arms. Why equip the whole squad with guns that seem to fire M-16 style bullets and have a pump action shot gun on the bottom? In today's military we use M-16s & MP-5s because automatic small arms are very effective at killing 6' tall humans in many case. But even than most military units have a wider range of guns. In a 12-man unit you have several guys with just the basic M-16 machine gun. But you usually also have 1 or 2 guys with a larger caliber weapon like a SAW or M-60, which fires larger caliber bullets that can do more damage than an M-16. Than you have at least one guy with a grenade launcher connected to his gun; that way you can shoot explosives at an enemy should the situation call for it. There is usually 1 or 2 who is a sniper and/or scout. The sniper usually has a long barreled rifle with a very accurate scope so that he can fire single persision shots over long distances. After all it's great if you can kill half of the enemy when you are still 1 mile away & they can't even figure out where you are. The sniper usually has a sub-machinegun like an MP-5 just in case he ends up in the middle of a firefight. the scout usually has a sub-machinegun (and usually the lightest compliment of gear to carry. Mostly just a small arms gun (MP-5 or Uzi) binoculars & a radio to report back to the rest of the guys about what he sees. Sometimes they even have a sniper with a .50 caliber rifle. The .50 Cal was invented so that people who were over a mile away could put a piece of lead into engine blocks of vehicles and the like. I'd imagine that it would do great against the bugs from this movie.

My point with all of this is that even the most rudimentary assault force should be packing more heat than they do when they first land. M-16s & MP-5s work great here on Earth because Human Beings are very fragile creatures who can easily be killed by a small bullet piercing our bodies. These bugs on the other hand are basically insects who are pure motorized instinct with no higher brain function that can stay mostly "on mission" after 1 or 2 of their legs have been shot off.

The most obvious thing is to carpet bomb places where they congregate. If they congregate on land than fire bomb them. If they congregate under ground than use a future version of those "bunker busters" that can pierce inches of plate steel to kill them. By the time you send infantry down to the planet arm them better. I've already said that M-16s & MP-5s are great weapons if fighting a human enemy; who can easily be killed with such guns. If fighting an alien enemy who is an insect race that's 3 times your mass & can still function after you blow multiple limbs off than the soldiers should be equipt with grenade launchers, flame throwers, automatic shotguns & larger caliber weapons like SAWs, M-60s, & .50 Caliber guns.

Very thorough Brian, thank you. I must say though that some of your information is incorrect. I was in the military and drill instructors are always enlisted, even for cadets/midshipmen. Although those who go to an academy of some sort of course outrank the DI once they graduate but this was not the case with Rico et al, which is what I was getting at so apologies for not being specific.

I'd like to think the guns were based on the M-16A2 with M203 40mm grenade launcher. The M-41A pulse rifle from Aliens was for one thing a very cool design (IMO) and it fired a 10mm explosive-tip casesless round (pistol bullet) with a 20mm grenade lanucher, which now that I think about it didn't show much explosion either. You were correct that "Billy" on Predator had an M-16 with shotgun. The military, for the most, does not use sub-machine guns, like the Uzi or MP-5, except maybe military police, and any movie that shows different is wrong. Most snipers carry either both their rifle and an M-4, or just rely on their spotters to carry the assault rifle or machine gun. The .50 would most certainly make more sense in this movie, like the M2 that has been in service for 60+ years I think. The SAW actually fires the same bullet that an M-16/M-4, but of course the user typically carries more ammo.