This was a great movie. Russell Crowe gave a fabulous performance. The battle sequences perfectly depicted the chaos, carnage, and frenzy of ancient warfare. Well done!

As for nits, well, some of the CGI was less than perfect (still pretty good, though). Also, with regard to the "thumbs-up" stuff, this is not historically accurate (according to Roger Ebert, not that I trust him). Apparently the real signal for a prisoner to be allowed to live was concealing the thumb inside the fist rather than exposing it. Sticking it out in any direction would mean death.

POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT!
*
*
*
*


Here's something else: Just before Maximus is captured outside Rome, there is a brief shot of a snake of some sort crawling in someone's bed (I think). What is that depicting? Lucilla is never killed. Was the snake merely a ploy by Commodus to frighten her? I really have no idea. Other than that, the movie was perfect! I think I'll see it again.

I was wondering how that black slave from Africa could communicate so easily with Maximus (Spanish) and all those Romans.

Those slave drivers probably take special care to ensure that their "products" are fluent in Latin. :-)

Of course, this language issue is certainly nothing new. At least, there is a reason that they would be able to communicate. (As opposed to the recent Voyager where the guy comes into the Delta Flyer and instantly can understand B'Ellana's logs.)

A rather enjoyable movie.

My main nit would be the thumbs up/thumbs down thing. If I remember my Latin right, it is wrong in the movie.

Josh- When they put the snake into the guys bed, that was when they killed the dude who had all the mistresses.

Pretty good movie, too long in some parts though.

Which guy with all the mistresses? I don't remember.

Josh-Remember that the Emperor asked his sister if one of the senators still slept with many women. It was that guy who got killed (I can't seem to remember any of the names, sorry!).

Ahh, Senator Falco, I think.

Finally got to see this today -- great movie! I was particularly impressed with Joaquin Phoenix and Richard Harris (though he was dispatched early on).

A couple of things...

In the historical department: the length of Commodus' reign was telescoped somewhat. He actually reigned for about 12 years (and I think he had Lucilla killed sometime early on in his reign). And Marcus Aurelius probably wasn't really going to restore the republic.

Also, professional gladiators didn't fight to the death as a general rule (anyway it would be unprofitable for the owners if they did). The fights went until someone surrendered.

Was anyone else unduly amused by the name Senator Falco? "Rock me, Amadeus!" :-)

Lucius Verus was Marcus Aurelius' brother and co-emperor, not his grandson... I suppose there may have been a grandson, but if so he was soon killed.

I find it slightly ironic that while in the movie they talk about restoring the 'old vision of Rome' at Commodus' death, in RL when Commodus died the Praetorian Guard actually sold the Empire at auction to the highest bidder! (Didius Julianus, who ruled 66 days before being overthrown by Septimus Severus).

I believe Commodus reigned eight years, from 182-190. I'm not sure, however. Interestingly, despite the other inaccuracies, Commodus did, in fact, enter gladiatorial combats.

Of course, the Republic was never restored. Moreover, the Empire never returned to the level of power it attained near the end of the second century.

Did anyone else notice that Senator Gracchus was played by Derek Jacobi? He previously played Tiberius Claudius Drusus Nero Germanicus (ie, Claudius) in the series, I, Claudius.

I'm pretty sure I was right about the length of Commodus' reign -- I remember reading that somewhere.

Derek Jacobi is one of my favorite actors! And I saw I, Claudius not too long ago and really loved it, though the early episodes are better than the later ones. (Hey, it might be fun to start a board for that -- in Misc. Drama or something?) So anyway the reference to Claudius also brought a smile. :-)

Yes, you're right, he ruled for 12 years, from 180-192. I suppose I should have checked first.

Incest was also he least of his crimes. Edward Gibbons wrote half of them could not be translated with ease into english.

I'm also pretty sure that Senator Gracchus died about 250 years before the period in which this film is supposed to take place.

Yes, at least one Senator Gracchus lived in Republican times. Maybe the one in the movie is supposed to be his relative. Don't know if that's accurate, though.

The worst two things in the movie-
They filmed in actual Roman ruins in some of the scenes in the coliseum you can see spackle on faded walls which ruins the illusion quickly and the worst...

The snake put into the senator's bed is a non-poisonous snake that is only found in the Americas, it is a mimic of the American equivalent of a cobra. I just thought that it would have been easy just to do a dark colored snake, not one that anyone with a herptile book can find.

I too loved the movie, especially the battle at the beginning. Wasn't it Commodus who liked to dress up as Hercules and didn't he enter himself into the Olympic games and everyone else was afraid to win any event he was in. I think I remember reading that somewhere. ALso, I believe that the Gracchi brothers were both senators in the Roman Republic who were killed by a mob before Julius C.'s reign.

Yep, the real Commodus did enter into the gladiatorial arena.

They were killed my a mob? As I've said to others, this movie had a very intelligent script. (If you recall, Senator Gracchus says that "Rome is the mob.")

Commodus was a little bit suicidal. I can imagine the gladiators backstage - "Psst... don't kill him. He's the emperor."

The biggest problem with this movie, incidentally, is that it seems to believe that the mob has noble inclinations. That wasn't true in Rome, and it isn't true today.

all the good nits are taken. I've got my regional herp guide out, and the closest thing to the snake in the movie is the California striped Kingsnake. There are others that look like that, though.
I loved the movie, but I would pay to watch two hours of Russel Crowe working in his yard, while wearing the costume from the movie.

Does anyone know anything about the vocal music used in this film and Mission: Impossible II. I think is might be Spanish (like the country, not the langauge). I, myself can catch the vocals but it is the most beautiful piece of music I've heard in a while.

Murray, I don't think that the movie tries to show that the mob has noble inclinations. Pay attention to what Gracchus says about being a man "for the people" rather than "of the people." I think that sums up the movie's idea that the mob does not have noble inclinations unless they have a noble symbol, like Maximus.

With respect to Lisa Gerrard's vocals, it doesn't sound like Spanish to me. In any event, it sounds Middle-Eastern to me.

Newt, venture the lands of the "official sites" of the movies in question, when you hunger to hear the soundtracks. they are usually listed.
Failing that, rent or buy the video when it comes out, and sit for the credits.
You will have no problem, with access to a computer that is online, finding what you are looking for.
Or consult Napster, or buy the soundtrack.
I was also moved by the music you mentioned.
....extraordinary.

I talked to my resident Roman Empire expert, Tom Murphy. He confirmed that the thumbs up-thumbs down thing WAS accurate.

the thumbs up-thumbs down thing is almost funny-it
makes me think of Monty Python Movies and Looney tunes.

All the music from the film was composed by Hans Zimmer and Lisa Gerrard (who also did the singing). It's a moving, if derivative, score. Try these links for reviews and more info:

Filmtracks Gladiator Review
ScoreRealm Gladiator Review (My site!)

I was sure that Ebert was wrong about the thumbs! He gave the movie two stars! Less than The World Is Not Enough! He also based his criticism almost solely on the film's "look," which he called "dark and murky." Funny, I didn't find that the desert or coliseum scenes were dark. Ebert must've been wearing sunglasses in the theatre.

Thanks everyone.

Saw this movie on opening weekend, or the second week...great movie...but never go see a movie drunk...I barely remembered any of it. But I do remember the jist of the plot and the movie and it was great...though some scenes did lag on a bit...at one point I leaned over to my other drunken friend and said "if I dont see blood soon, *I* will kill someone myself!"
Then during the scene where those soldiers go to kill Maximus' wife and son, the son comes running out and the soldiers are charging towards him I yelled out "LOOK OUT ELIAN!!!!!!!!" LOL it got some laughs but I think most people were just annoyed at us drunks...then again, at least in THAT neighborhood we weren't smoking pot or doing worse! ;-)

I picked up the soundtrack today, it sounds great (don't get me started on the fact I had to go to two stores before I found it).

You had to go to TWO stores? Strange. It's been everywhere I've looked (even though I bought it weeks ago). I find that it's main failing is that it's rather derivative of Holst with some Wagner and Gorecki thrown in. To Zimmer's credit, those aspects are interpolated very well.

What is the term for the Roman wooden sword representing earned freedom? Proximo mentions it to Maximus, but I do not have one of those dialogue-wording options on my TV. Thank you.

My nit for this movie.

Beginning line: At my signal, unleash hell.

What Ancient roman says Hell? It's a christian term, and did christianity catch on by then?

Christianity was gaining popularity in Rome at the time. But Maximus would not have been one. Christianity was still underground, meaning that one would not get the rank of general, also they did not believe in war at the time so a christian would not have become a military leader.

Sure the Romans had Hell, as the Greeks had Tartarus. I don't know what the Latin equivalent is, but "hell" is the appropriate English translation.

The Religion Issue
Emperor Constantine (A.D. 285-337, and Emperor from A.D. 306-337) was the one who made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. I'm not sure when during his reign it was made official, but he made the cessation of persecution of Christians a priority during his reign, and it is believed he himself was baptized on his deathbed. Since the movie is set in A.D. 180, this is long before that.

But on the subject of the afterlife, what was the view on it on the part of the Roman religion? I know that they worshipped Saturn, or Mithra, and while Josh mentioned this, isn't Pluto the death god in that religion? Was Tartarus, which Josh mentioned, Pluto's domain? (Or do I have my pantheons mixed up?)

Real-life-compared-to-the-movie nits
Empreror Marcus Aurelius died of the plague, not murder, though I supposed the movie’s creators could argue that since Commodus suffocated him, that would APPEAR to be the plague, since Aurelius already knew he was ill and told this to Maximus.

Commodus died in 192, twleve years after Marcus Aurelius died, a far longer span of time than this movie. He died of strangulation, by a group of conspirators, one of which was Sardinia, not by being stabbed in a gladitorial duel in the Arena by Maximus, or any other soldier or gladiator.

The thumbs up or thumbs down issue: Thumbs up meant to the winning fighter that he should impale his opponent with his sword in the upper portion of the loser’s body (his throat, I believe), and thumbs down meant he should do so in the lower part of his victim's body, to gut him or disembowel him.

Dan R: During the scene where those soldiers go to kill Maximus' wife and son, the son comes running out and the soldiers are charging towards him I yelled out "LOOK OUT ELIAN!!!!!!!!" LOL it got some laughs but I think most people were just annoyed at us drunks.)

Luigi Novi: That was YOU??!!

RE: thumbs up/down
Supposedly there was a signal given to the winner of a gladitorial battle, but I heard that there is no historical proof that it was indeed thumbs up/down. This was invented as the signal for some earlier sand and sandles movie, and has persisted to this day in film as such.

I thought the underworld for the Romans was Hades. It seems like that and not just from Herc/Xena either.

Hades was the name for the underworld in general. Tartarus was the very unpleasant part of it, with lots of pain, torturing and other nice tasks.

Ah sorta like downtown/uptown part of hades. "And over here we have alovely aprtment complex overlooking the vast lava pools where ex presidents are kept.." Hades tours.

Yes, and the Elysian Fields are above the smog. Just watch "Hercules" and you'll know...

If anyone's curious about the details of the underworld, take a look at The Aeneid by Virgil. It's public domain, so I'm sure you can find it on the Internet somewhere.

I would hope The Aeneid's in the public domain by now!

Otherwise, Homer spends some time describing Hades in The Odyssey too.

It is funny that people criticize the reference to hell, and ignore that almost all the dialogue is said in English, LOL. Really, I think both are concessions to modern viewers. The people who made the movie presume that people are more apt to get the meaning of a line like "unleash Hell," than "unleash Erebus/Tartarus/Hades."

The plot of this movie bears some resemblences to the movie The Fall of the Roman Empire. In that, Commodus has a servant poison Aurelius by smearing poison on one side of a knife and serving an apple half with the poison on it to him. He and Livius, the heroic general in this movie, remain friends for a while, and later, Livius and he fall out and Commodus exiles him to defend the border forever, never to see Lucilla again. The ending involves Livius going back to Rome with his troops, saving Lucilla from being executed and killing Commodus in single combat. Livius survives and as the couple leave town, the senators and generals bid for the throne.

Did anyone notice that the Gladiatorial slaves were wearing violet T-shirts. In Roman times I do not think this would be likely. Purple dyes were only worn by Emporers and the high ranking Roman citizens due to the cost of extracting imperial purple dye from a certain breed of shellfish (the use of our modern cheap dyes was not put into place until the 19th century). It would be likely that slaves would wear cloths which had not been dyed or at least dyed by a chep natural pigment such as Madder or Wode.

Are you sure? I know that Proximo's company of gladiators wore blue. It is possible that some of the other gladiators they fought against may have worn purple, but remember who owned some of them. The emperor might have dressed his gladiators in purple, partly to identify them as his, and partly to show off how rich he is. Also, the games were officially being held in honor of Commodus' late father (having valuable slaves fight to the death in expensive outfits could be considered a sacrifice) and less officially to gain the public's favor (it makes an important person look good that he spends so much money just to amuse the people).

Actually, there should not be a problem with slaves wearing our modern concept of purple. In Roman times, royal purples were actually closer to variations on scarlet and burgundy, emphasizing a likeness to blood.

The Hell reference isn't a problem. The English Word "Hell" comes from the Norse word Hel, which meant, Abode of the Dishonered Dead, named for it's master, Hel. The Latin word for Hell would be "Inferno," which as we all know, refers to the amount of Fire in the Hereafter, from the Ignis, a word so old even the Indians have a cognate Agnis, I belive. So Maximus would say something like "Unleash an unending firestorm" rather than, "Unleash the prison of the elder gods!"

Josh G: Translations are considered seperate pieces of intellectual property, so only copies having been translated before the 1920's are in the public domain.

All: This movie has to be best understood as a part of an older genre of Sword and Sandals films, not as a historical recreation. So the "thumbs up" is an inaccuracy, but it has a long fabled history in cinema. So nitpick the guys with wristwatches, but leave the ignore the cinematic conventions.

Besides, didn't Hercules teach you not to worry about historical accuracy?

Saw this movie on opening weekend, or the second week...great movie...but never go see a movie drunk...I barely remembered any of it.

Funny, I was in the same condition at home when seeing it the first time. My impression was that it was a reminder never to buy a movie without having seen it first.

Only brought this up because I watched it again -- it seemed the right time and I wanted to zone out on the couch. I must have really been overdoing it the first time I saw it because for the life of me I couldn't remember how it ended.

(Well, there have been other movies like that, that I have not seen "under the influence". Superman IV comes to mind -- when I saw it on TV I couldn't believe they had made another Superman movie and I never went to see it. Then Lex's nephew came on and I said -- "Oh, yeah... Must have just blocked it out.")

This certainly wasn't a bad movie, the attention to detail was quite nice. But relentlessly downbeat and not very compelling. I couldn't help but compare it to Spartacus (curse Pepsi for that current commercial that uses scenes from it!), which I enjoyed much more, perhaps because it was melodramatic, but also all done with "real" people. (BTW, compare the final battle setup with the formation of the droid army in Phantom Menace, and you'll see where Lucas got that from.)

Again, not bad, but one I think I'll put in my "giveaway" stack as I don't think I'll sit through it again (I was in a coherent state this time, and do recall the story now...)

I have to say I was actually rooting for the Germans in the opening sequence!

The sequence where they show the opening of the Games at the Coluseumn reminded too much of the
infamous Nazi propganda film Triumph of the Will.
I particuliarly mean where they show the drummers and before that the Eagle over the Coluseumn entrance.

Didn't Marcus Aurelius actually die of natural causes?

As far as Commodus goes,the one part they got right was his death.He did die in the Arena fighting one of his slaves and they did refuse to help him.He was one of the worse Emperors ever and no-one cared when he died.

I heard that he was assassinated by a group of people?

Marcus Aurelius was killed on campaign into what is now modern day austria in the year 180CE and his son Commodus took over. Many historians and I agree that his was a really bad idea as Marcus (whom I named my son after but my wife nixed the full name for some reason. I think she said he would have had to have a name tag as big as he was.) was the last of the good emperors and looking back commodus should have invented the commode so the romans could have stuck his head in it.

Commodus would stage battles in the arena (always winning but not to the death) had a harem of 300 women(And you thought keeping 1 happy was rough try being him), was very friendly with the nepotistic appointments of jobs and is believed to have been either strangled by another gladiator or killed during one of his arena battles.

Infor gotten from wikipedia

the Straight Dope on the Thumb down gesture (scroll down a bit).

Quote:

It is still not totally clear what gestures the Romans used to indicate go/no go at gladiator. Pollice verso has been translated to mean "with thumbs turned inward," "with thumbs turned outward" (in both cases as a stabbing gesture), and "with thumbs bent back" (i.e., thumbs up). Hardly anyone contends that the phrase meant "thumbs down." On the contrary, some say thumbs down meant "spare him." Our opposite interpretation is largely Gerome's invention.

Never go see a movie drunk...
I was drunk from my office Christmas party in late 1981 when I went to see Neighbors. I was expecting as good a time as I had with The Blues Brothers. My being drunk probably made my time at this godawful movie better.

"The sequence where they show the opening of the Games at the Coluseumn reminded too much of the
infamous Nazi propganda film Triumph of the Will. "

Well when you think that a lot of the influences for the Nazi party, especially at the notorious Nuremberg Rallies was from Roman imagery......

Look at the ranks of the SA brownshirts, each holding banners very reminescent of those used by a Roman banner holder.